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#173
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ICanThePowerr (02/26/2012) [-] I am not gay, but my beliefs on gay marriage are as strong and firm as possible for a straight person. Ask any anti-gay marriage person : Do you love your wife/husband?
Chances are, they'll say yes. If they can love and get married, why not gays? What's their excuse? God? I'm atheist, but even their religion says that god loves everybody, yet we always see anti-gay christians. Without Christianity, I don't have a single doubt in my mind that gay marriage would be legal. Yet, this countries government has christianity shoved so far up their asses that they can't make a conscious decision that makes sense. Ask one of them, Why do you not want gays to marry? They'll probably say something like IT'S WRONG - GOD DOESN'T LIKE IT.
Seriously?
Religion is the cause for so many problems, like wars and the whole deal with gay marriage. A lot say it's a sacred bond between a man and a woman. So fucking what? The only sacred bond is love, and I think love between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is the same kind of love, so why can't they get married?
The problem isn't gay marriage. It's the over-religious freaks that are the problem. Ask any normal christian, their opinions may differ, but overall, they're not going to have strong hate for gays. God says love thy neighbor, so the normal christians do.
tl;dr - Gay marriage should be legal. Only reason it isn't is because of over-religious freaks.
Chances are, they'll say yes. If they can love and get married, why not gays? What's their excuse? God? I'm atheist, but even their religion says that god loves everybody, yet we always see anti-gay christians. Without Christianity, I don't have a single doubt in my mind that gay marriage would be legal. Yet, this countries government has christianity shoved so far up their asses that they can't make a conscious decision that makes sense. Ask one of them, Why do you not want gays to marry? They'll probably say something like IT'S WRONG - GOD DOESN'T LIKE IT.
Seriously?
Religion is the cause for so many problems, like wars and the whole deal with gay marriage. A lot say it's a sacred bond between a man and a woman. So fucking what? The only sacred bond is love, and I think love between a man and a man or a woman and a woman is the same kind of love, so why can't they get married?
The problem isn't gay marriage. It's the over-religious freaks that are the problem. Ask any normal christian, their opinions may differ, but overall, they're not going to have strong hate for gays. God says love thy neighbor, so the normal christians do.
tl;dr - Gay marriage should be legal. Only reason it isn't is because of over-religious freaks.
#185 to #176
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ICanThePowerr (02/26/2012) [-] legal bonds?
They don't want legal bonds. They want to get married like everyone else.
How are they gonna explain that to them?
"You're not good enough for marriage. So instead, we're giving you something else."
Why is it such a problem to have equality. All these people preaching equality when people can't even marry because they love someone of the same sex.
This country isn't equal. It isn't equal at all. And it isn't going be equal until gay marriage is legal everywhere in the country.
They don't want legal bonds. They want to get married like everyone else.
How are they gonna explain that to them?
"You're not good enough for marriage. So instead, we're giving you something else."
Why is it such a problem to have equality. All these people preaching equality when people can't even marry because they love someone of the same sex.
This country isn't equal. It isn't equal at all. And it isn't going be equal until gay marriage is legal everywhere in the country.
#193 to #185
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filwit (02/26/2012) [-]
Sorry, should have been clearer in my post. I support gays and gay marriage.
BUT, I think the idea of state-sanctioned marriage should be abandoned in favor of something more like legal bonds (over properties, etc) between ANY two (or more) people.
Religious institutions can keep their marriage rituals of course, but it won't mean anything legally.
BUT, I think the idea of state-sanctioned marriage should be abandoned in favor of something more like legal bonds (over properties, etc) between ANY two (or more) people.
Religious institutions can keep their marriage rituals of course, but it won't mean anything legally.
#195 to #193
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ICanThePowerr (02/26/2012) [-] Yes, that's good and all, but marriage isn't about legal bonds to buy property.
It's a symbolic thing that truly shows how much two people can love each other.
Alls you're suggesting is that we give a muffin to someone who wants a cupcake. Sure, the basic stuff is there, but the best stuff - the icing, is missing. sure a muffins always good, but the cherry on top is the icing. Just like marriage, the icing is the symbolic relationship between the two
It's a symbolic thing that truly shows how much two people can love each other.
Alls you're suggesting is that we give a muffin to someone who wants a cupcake. Sure, the basic stuff is there, but the best stuff - the icing, is missing. sure a muffins always good, but the cherry on top is the icing. Just like marriage, the icing is the symbolic relationship between the two
#204 to #195
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Biue (02/26/2012) [-]
filwit didn't say anything about gays getting something different from straight people. He's saying separate the marriage from all the tax benefits and laws associated with a marriage. So a Church, if in it's own views, was willing to marry two gay or straight people, they could do so without any government involvement. Also two people could claim the same types of taxes and laws from marriage without being married (given specific circumstances of course).
#199 to #195
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filwit (02/26/2012) [-]
Sure. And no one is denying anyone (straight, gay, or otherwise) from pledging or promising themselves to another through which ever rituals they choose, be it a fancy dinner, a church service, or a tax bond. I don't see how that promise is legally relevant in any way though (beyond the tax bond of course).
#202 to #199
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ICanThePowerr (02/26/2012) [-] Like I said, the marriage thing is symbolical.
If you love someone that much, you know that saying "oh we're just a couple" won't suffice.
That's why people get married. The symbolical idea of it.
Of course, you can still love someone just the same without being their husband or wife, but at the end of the day, you don't want to come home to see your boyfriend or girlfriend for the rest of your life. You want to see your husband or wife.
Obviously you don't have to get married if you don't see the point in it, but those of us that do, realize that marriage goes way deeper than just being able to buy property together. AND YET AGAIN, it's symbolical.
If you love someone that much, you know that saying "oh we're just a couple" won't suffice.
That's why people get married. The symbolical idea of it.
Of course, you can still love someone just the same without being their husband or wife, but at the end of the day, you don't want to come home to see your boyfriend or girlfriend for the rest of your life. You want to see your husband or wife.
Obviously you don't have to get married if you don't see the point in it, but those of us that do, realize that marriage goes way deeper than just being able to buy property together. AND YET AGAIN, it's symbolical.
#209 to #202
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filwit (02/26/2012) [-]
I heard you the first time, but complicating the legal system for your emotions isn't something I'm able to support. No one said you can't go around saying "we're married" or call each other husband and wife, but such things are largely social traditions in the first place. I'm not arguing their shouldn't be a distinction there, even a socially recognizable one.
It's just not logical to include it into our legal structure... weren't you just saying something about others making sensible decisions?
It's just not logical to include it into our legal structure... weren't you just saying something about others making sensible decisions?
#214 to #209
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ICanThePowerr (02/26/2012) [-] So, it's alright that everyone else gets to use their emotions in the legal system? Everyone else can get married, but not gays? Why is that? Because some stubborn christians don't think it's right?
Maybe I don't think christianity is right, perhaps I should say it's not right and decline THEM the right to get married.
Saying we shouldn't include the legal structure? The same legal structure allowing everyone else to get married, but not gays? The fact of the matter is, we're supposed to be an equal country, but in most places it's against the law for gays to get married. Doesn't sound equal to me.
If it's not logical to include it into our legal structure, than why is it illegal in the first place? It's already part of the legal structure.
Maybe I don't think christianity is right, perhaps I should say it's not right and decline THEM the right to get married.
Saying we shouldn't include the legal structure? The same legal structure allowing everyone else to get married, but not gays? The fact of the matter is, we're supposed to be an equal country, but in most places it's against the law for gays to get married. Doesn't sound equal to me.
If it's not logical to include it into our legal structure, than why is it illegal in the first place? It's already part of the legal structure.
#223 to #214
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takingittoofar (02/26/2012) [-] may I interject? Oh right you cant stop me
I have one rule in life really, anyone, man, woman, gay, straight, whatever, is allowed to do anything, absolutely anything, they want unless it hurts another person
But specifically on gay marriage why don't they just ditch the church and find some accepting pastor or priest or whatever online and have him marry them?
then go about their lives?
There is one thing I find annoying about the world today and its people who fight against racism or unfair treatment of gay people or whatever don't realise if they stopped looking for it, stopped protesting and getting in your face about it, stopped giving a fuck and just went about their lives they'd find it would probably disappear
I have one rule in life really, anyone, man, woman, gay, straight, whatever, is allowed to do anything, absolutely anything, they want unless it hurts another person
But specifically on gay marriage why don't they just ditch the church and find some accepting pastor or priest or whatever online and have him marry them?
then go about their lives?
There is one thing I find annoying about the world today and its people who fight against racism or unfair treatment of gay people or whatever don't realise if they stopped looking for it, stopped protesting and getting in your face about it, stopped giving a fuck and just went about their lives they'd find it would probably disappear
#228 to #223
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ICanThePowerr (02/26/2012) [-] That's it right there though
You shouldn't have to look online for a pastor to get married. It's not even the problem of finding a shitty craigslist pastor to marry them, it's the fact that their marriage is illegal in the first place. If you're straight, you can choose to get married some place 5 minutes away from your house, or even at your house. But for most gays who live in a state where it's illegal, they'd have to spend even more money just getting to a state where it IS legal. And leaving it alone would just make all the opposing people feel like they won, when they shouldn't be winning.
You shouldn't have to look online for a pastor to get married. It's not even the problem of finding a shitty craigslist pastor to marry them, it's the fact that their marriage is illegal in the first place. If you're straight, you can choose to get married some place 5 minutes away from your house, or even at your house. But for most gays who live in a state where it's illegal, they'd have to spend even more money just getting to a state where it IS legal. And leaving it alone would just make all the opposing people feel like they won, when they shouldn't be winning.
#230 to #228
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takingittoofar (02/26/2012) [-] why do they have to feel like they won?
that seems petty, if I were gay, I wouldn't even bother with the religious aspect of it which I think is filwit's pointI
I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to live in a state where its outlawed
also freedom of choice or being "free to choose" is not freedom
that seems petty, if I were gay, I wouldn't even bother with the religious aspect of it which I think is filwit's pointI
I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to live in a state where its outlawed
also freedom of choice or being "free to choose" is not freedom
#231 to #230
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ICanThePowerr (02/26/2012) [-] The people making these decisions are stubborn. If they can't have what they want, no one can. And what they want is to keep gays from marrying.
And I'm not saying gays have to go to a church to get married, what I'm saying is that it shouldn't be illegal to gays. And not everyone has the money to completely move to a more accepting state, let alone enough money to even travel there to get married. It's not about being stupid, it's about the fact that there's other complications when it comes to simply moving to another state.
And freedom to choose may not be freedom itself, but it's sure a part of it.
And I'm not saying gays have to go to a church to get married, what I'm saying is that it shouldn't be illegal to gays. And not everyone has the money to completely move to a more accepting state, let alone enough money to even travel there to get married. It's not about being stupid, it's about the fact that there's other complications when it comes to simply moving to another state.
And freedom to choose may not be freedom itself, but it's sure a part of it.
#220 to #214
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filwit (02/26/2012) [-]
Dude what? You're obviously getting the wrong impression from my posts, let me clarify very clearly: I support Gay Marriage.
I was simply saying I think the entire marriage legal system, for both straight and gays (especially for gays), is due for some legal overhaul.
I was simply saying I think the entire marriage legal system, for both straight and gays (especially for gays), is due for some legal overhaul.
#224 to #221
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filwit (02/26/2012) [-]
Nevermind. I was thinking we where talking about a legal proposal I'd made (concerning marriage structure in general) and that you where defending the structure itself but now I see you must have been defending the "idea" of marriage among gay couples and where thinking I was saying it shouldn't be legal.
