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#979 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
I've got one problem with him. He denies evolution and therefor scientific progress. Do you want a president that denies facts and believe something that is demonstratable false?
#1125 to #979 - kingpokerface (01/12/2012) [-]
yes, how dare somebody doesn't share your beliefs, that means they are stupid and wrong.
seriously, leave scientific progress to scientist and lets leave politics to the politicians.
#1207 to #1125 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
Science isn't a belief. Science and politic are thightly interwoven, so if the president discard science it reject one of the pinnacles that made this country great.
#1080 to #979 - drroxxo (01/12/2012) [-]
i'm not saying i believe in creation but i don't believe in evolution either since i've never actually seen it in action either...believe in evolution is just as bad as believing in a god since both are on faith alone and with no REAL proof
#1530 to #1080 - N. Korean citizen (01/12/2012) [-]
actually there is proof of evolution, but as an agnostic atheist, even I know that what we consider facts can still be proven wrong. Living things don't change their structure due to how much they do things. For example, some people may think that a giraffe's neck is long because its ancestors it came from stretched their necks often. this is obviously untrue. The giraffes you see today have long necks because, before there were full fledged giraffes, there were horses with short necks and long necks. due to the habitat they lived in, the horses with short necks couldn't reach the leaves and fruits in the tall trees, where the horses with long necks could. because of this, the short-necked horses died off and the long-necked horses reproduced. evolution revolves around natural selection and relies on variety within a species. Think about this, if two pure white people make a baby, the baby is white. If two pure black people make a baby, the baby is black. Any scenario where that did not occur would have to be due to a one-in-a-trillion mutation. Now lets just pretend that white's are naturally superior (I'm not racist, I'm black) and they believe in the dominance of the superior race. the whites would reproduce more and try to reduce the amount of blacks in the world. This would lead to a lot more white people and less blacks nearly to the point of extinction. This is something you can realistically observe (and if I may say, is somewhat actually happening). About the monkey evolving into people debate, this took an incredibly long time to occur, which is why you don't see us evolving. And the monkeys you see today, could be evolving, but it isn't something you can observe in a lifetime. This is exactly why I respect religious beliefs. Science can't prove everything, and neither can religion. The past is unobservable and things like deities and the truth behind the big bang are beyond the comprehension of man. That is why I think everybody should be agnostic.
#1666 to #1530 - drroxxo (01/13/2012) [-]
but what you are describing is not evolution. how does an organism go from having 44 chromosomes to 46 is what i'm asking.(hypothetical number) sure i can believe giraffes evolved from horses(or even camels) if i was just looking at how they look. but what i don't accept is that any species can change into an entirely new species. dogs and certain types of wolves can interbreed and produce offspring that can also reproduce but others are genetically deficient or lack an equal number of chromosomes just like mules. my question is: where does any scientist or anyone for that matter who believes in evolution get off claiming it's real and factual(i realize you italicized facts) without first showing how the entire system works. people simply state that we came from monkeys and apes but many monkeys and apes have different numbers of chromosomes..but where did the other ones go or come from. even if one or two were born with the correct numbers they would soon die off due to genetic deficiency and diseases caused by it. to me it just doesn't seem realistic. oh and I completely agree with your post with the exception of the horses thing.
#2373 to #1666 - thescientist (01/13/2012) [-]
To anwser your question, chromosomes can fuse and duplicate without loss of function. This is how you get more or less chromosomes than your ancestor. For example human chromosome 2 is a fusion between 2 ape chromosomes.
#2395 to #2373 - drroxxo (01/14/2012) [-]
i'm only stating that without seeing it happen i can't believe it and even if that were the case you would still have only humans coming from say a pair of apes who's genetics allow for this...a species could never survive that way. within a few generations either they would die off from genetic disease or infertility
#2400 to #2395 - thescientist (01/14/2012) [-]
Scientist have observed it. The human chromosome 2 was only an example that proves that you can have duplication or fusion without loss of function. In other words no genetic diseases.
#1799 to #1666 - N. Korean citizen (01/13/2012) [-]
about the chromosome thing, I honestly have no idea. I think someone asked our ap bio teacher that question, and she didn't even know. I am pretty well knowledgeable about the cross breeding thing and their infertile children so my best guess is that the difference in chromosome number would be a giant shift in the way the DNA is coiled in the chromosomes. Perhaps the new species has one more chromosome, but each one is shorter. It's a very far fetched idea, and I only just recently passed AP bio in high school so either science hasn't found an answer for that, or you'll have to find someone more well informed on the subject. Like I said, science can't solve everything, which is why I'm an agnostic athiest and not an athiest. If you don't know the difference, an athiest says god can't or doesn't exist. an agnostic athiest says he probably doesn't exist, but neither science or religion can prove that he does or doesn't exist. an agnostic theist believes in god, but knows that he cannot definitely prove his existence I could ask you how adam and eve being the only humans on earth produced such diverse people now. That would have to do with genes, and that would have to do with evolution at least a little bit. If you could do so without science, that would be nice to hear, but similarly to my situation, if you couldn't I would just have to ask someone more well informed. Keep in mind that there are different definitions of evolution and species categorization. Some scientists believe that once an animal looks different enough, it should be considered a different species. however, some scientists believe that when an animal is no longer able to mate (different chromosome number) it should be considered a different species. scientists study such small things in nature that I doubt they would leave such a huge question like that unsolved. Look around and you might find the answer. nice having an educated discussion about religion with someone :)
#1829 to #1799 - N. Korean citizen (01/13/2012) [-]
I should say infertile offspring, not children
User avatar #1105 to #1080 - xxane (01/12/2012) [-]
Thank you. I am christian and I agree with this. I am not close minded. We all have never seen shit.
#1102 to #1080 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
Why do you think that evolution is not backed with proof? Just search for evidence for evolution and klick on the wiki page. It so easy..
User avatar #1012 to #979 - xxane (01/12/2012) [-]
Ok how do you know evolution is a fact if you never saw it with your own eyes. Its just a theory as I a christian believe in god but I still know its a theory of man. And every god dam president is christian or catholic. Im pretty sure there has never been a athiest president.
#1060 to #1012 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
It's true that there was no atheist president, that doesn't mean that the president should discard science. I know evolution is a fact because i studied the theory and asked questions if I didn't get it.
If you think that a facts only can be attained by direct observation, then according to you, You don't exist to me.
User avatar #1070 to #1060 - xxane (01/12/2012) [-]
Well I am christian but I don't believe god made us lol. I believe in god himself and the shit that occurred but I also think evolution is a bunch of shit too...
#1084 to #1070 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
Why do you think evolution is shit?
User avatar #1100 to #1084 - xxane (01/12/2012) [-]
Evolution is not 100% fucking proved. You have never seen the first man be made so how sure are you there. We can be made from anything from aliens to god. But that you believe the big bang bullshit made us then ur pretty retarded. Wouldn't life be on every planet??
#1159 to #1100 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
Every part about evolution is backed up by evidence, if you got questions about evolution maybe I can anwser them. The descent of man is well researched and is complementairy to the evolution theory, search for it.
It's true that is possible how small the chance is, but evolution is backed up by evidence while aliens and 'god' isn't.
I think that the big bang theory is a valid theory for the early development of the universe. The big bang theory doesn't say that life would be every where.
User avatar #1167 to #1159 - xxane (01/12/2012) [-]
So the big bang theory talks?
#1193 to #1167 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
What I mean is that the big bang theory don't explains that life would be every where, it mearly explains how the universe develops.
User avatar #2346 to #1193 - xxane (01/13/2012) [-]
I don't understand your talk. Speak English for starters and get your bullshit out of my face.
#2364 to #2346 - thescientist (01/13/2012) [-]
You stated in post #1100 that if the big bang theory was true, life would be everywhere, however the big bang theory doesn't explain anything about that life that would be anywhere.

for a simple explanation for the big bang theory I direct you to the wikis page:
http://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Big_Bang
User avatar #2396 to #2364 - xxane (01/14/2012) [-]
no thanks I don't wanna read that garbage. I believe in god and jesus so get that devil shit outta here.
#2399 to #2396 - thescientist (01/14/2012) [-]
It is a shame that you turn your back on science and embrace ignorance. The belief in a god can coexist with science if you want to.
User avatar #2401 to #2399 - xxane (01/14/2012) [-]
Ok I dont give a shit buddy. Science has made you all full of shit. God is all you need to bring true happiness in your life. Not science. You all will go to hell on judgment day.
#1002 to #979 - rocketmango (01/12/2012) [-]
> Do you want a president that denies facts and believe something that is demonstratable false?

If so, vote Barack Obama.

> I've got one problem with him. He denies evolution and therefor scientific progress.

Actually this is kind of a problem, but his platform is for the most part to let these kind of issues be handled at a state level. Vote Ron Paul then take your issue up with your state.
#1038 to #1002 - N. Korean citizen (01/12/2012) [-]
I still think it's ridiculous for someone to deny evolution, a widely supported and almost certain theory.
User avatar #1101 to #1038 - fireonfire (01/12/2012) [-]
a biased theory that backfires on itself. I love how scientists rush to prove it right and leave all the unexplained parts. For one, our DNA proves that evolution is not possible. I agree that it might be the most plausible theory available but that doesnt mean its right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
#1108 to #1101 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
Why does DNA disproves evolution?

User avatar #1155 to #1108 - fireonfire (01/12/2012) [-]
In short: dna cant change because it has a built in method that reverses the changes. Thus, theory of evolution falls under its own weight.
#1177 to #1155 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
You are right that cells have mechanisms that copes with changes in the DNA, but the mechanisms are not 100% fail safe. Scientists have recorded milions of changes in DNA in mostly prokaryotes (bacteria), but also in eukariotes (yeast, animals).
User avatar #1165 to #1155 - fireonfire (01/12/2012) [-]
To be honest, its an internet myth that (i think) has been proven wrong but still there are many other reasons that prove evolution wrong.
#1197 to #1165 - thescientist (01/12/2012) [-]
Please name the reasons why evolution is wrong..
User avatar #1244 to #1197 - fireonfire (01/12/2012) [-]
Would you be so kind to say why you support the theory of evolution.
#2361 to #1244 - thescientist (01/13/2012) [-]
Because it supported in many fields of work. I direct you to the wiki page for further information.

http://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Evidenceofcommon_descent
User avatar #1241 to #1197 - fireonfire (01/12/2012) [-]
lets see now: the human egg. evolution claims that the environment causes changes. However, a human egg is safely in the ovaries and it isnt affected by environmental changed experience by the mother. That means there is no affect on the chromosomes thus making evolution impossible.
#2363 to #1241 - thescientist (01/13/2012) [-]
Not only the enviroment causes changes, under normal conditions the mechanisms for transcribing and translating the DNA is not 100% change proof.
User avatar #2366 to #2363 - fireonfire (01/13/2012) [-]
Suppose evolution is correct, it doesnt explain how the first life form was created. Also, we have not come in contact with life outside of earth. Mars has proof that water once existed but still, there is not even a little living speck. The planet is livable and according to evolution, living organisms would have adapted to the conditions.
#2369 to #2366 - thescientist (01/13/2012) [-]
Evolution only talks about how life is diverted from that first living cell. How it got there is the field of abiogenisis. Abiogenisis, has multiple hypothesis how life was created. It is difficult to discover which hypothesis is correct, because it is long time ago (roughly 3 bilion years) and the evidence in limited.
User avatar #2371 to #2369 - fireonfire (01/13/2012) [-]
Listen man, you are thescientist and you know more in this field than me. So I currently don't have a counter argument yet. Wait for a few days and I will PM you with my argument. OK?
#2372 to #2371 - thescientist (01/13/2012) [-]
This is fine by me. I'm looking forward to your anwser.
User avatar #2365 to #2363 - fireonfire (01/13/2012) [-]
Personally, my best theory against evolution are all the dumb f-ing people who populate majority of the planet.
#2370 to #2365 - thescientist (01/13/2012) [-]
Evolution is not about gaining intelligence, but about surving.
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