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#112
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cringeage (11/30/2011) [-] Communism is about equality; equal pay, equal contribution, equal social standing. It's a nice idea, but in places like China and Russia, there is no equality, there is no democracy and there is no free speech.
They aren't communist, they just call themselves 'communist' because 'murderous fascist dictatorship' doesn't leave much room for manoeuvre at the UN.
They aren't communist, they just call themselves 'communist' because 'murderous fascist dictatorship' doesn't leave much room for manoeuvre at the UN.
#149 to #112
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falkarr **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-]
Pretty sure you've never even attempted to see what life in China and Russia is like.
I had a Russian exchange student in my senior year of highschool who said she loved communism, and that America just uses propoganda to make us hate it.
Capitalism and Democracy do not work with large scale populations, and we're beginning to see that.
I had a Russian exchange student in my senior year of highschool who said she loved communism, and that America just uses propoganda to make us hate it.
Capitalism and Democracy do not work with large scale populations, and we're beginning to see that.
#239 to #149
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cringeage (11/30/2011) [-] ... Democracy is not on the table for political debate, or at least it shouldn't be. It does work. What doesn't work is a corrupt few at the top with all the power and wealth acting in their own interests. Whether Capitalism, Socialism or Communism, it is the elite that keeps everyone else's opinions and speech unheard.
There's a lot of post-Cold War stigma in America about Capitalism and Communism, but as I'm British and neither, it doesn't really matter to me.
There's a lot of post-Cold War stigma in America about Capitalism and Communism, but as I'm British and neither, it doesn't really matter to me.
#132 to #112
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Hreidmar (11/30/2011) [-] In reality, pure communism is actually a very efficient and effective governmental/economic system. It's just that you run into the problem of the wrong people getting power. There is no pure communism in the world, what there is instead is murderous, oppressive, criminal dictatorships, like you said. But they give communism the bad name.
#161 to #132
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oscartg **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-] > In reality, pure communism is actually a very efficient and effective governmental/economic system.
In Reality, pure communism destroys the souls of human beings by denying them their right to decide what to strive for in life and their right to own what they create.
Pure communism is shit, even moreso than the "flawed" communism implemented by criminal dictatorships. The more "pure" the communism the more destructive it is.
In Reality, pure communism destroys the souls of human beings by denying them their right to decide what to strive for in life and their right to own what they create.
Pure communism is shit, even moreso than the "flawed" communism implemented by criminal dictatorships. The more "pure" the communism the more destructive it is.
#158 to #132
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N. Korean citizen (11/30/2011) [-]
the fact of the matter is is that all that you said about communism IS a bunch of white wash the government controls every thing there is no free speech and if you speak out against it you will proobly be killed and this equality stuff is that you get paid the same even ifyou do nothing the reason why communism fell is becaus people were unhappy and hated communism
#115 to #112
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yourmomismyhostage (11/30/2011) [-] Its not about equality, its about pretty much taking all of the wealth in the country and using it to do whatever the hell you want. It also means that the people go into poverty. It might have been sucessful for awhile but it eventualy all came crashing down.
I know imma get some red thumbs from the liberals but Capitalist America= Fuck Yeah!!!
I know imma get some red thumbs from the liberals but Capitalist America= Fuck Yeah!!!
#215 to #116
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oscartg **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-] Socialism revolves around stealing what productive people have produced and giving it to others who haven't produced anything, in order to maintain control of both the producers and the consumers.
In socialism the elite decide who is "needy and vulnerable" and they proceed to pat themselves on the back and call themselves "moral" for stealing other people's money and using it to keep the poor addicted to their stolen largesse.
Socialism is no different than any other form of theft. You're either purposefully lying or you've been brainwashed.
In socialism the elite decide who is "needy and vulnerable" and they proceed to pat themselves on the back and call themselves "moral" for stealing other people's money and using it to keep the poor addicted to their stolen largesse.
Socialism is no different than any other form of theft. You're either purposefully lying or you've been brainwashed.
#246 to #215
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cringeage (11/30/2011) [-] You just defined Communism, not Socialism.
Socialism is about working together through co-operative schemes, with the state providing necessities such as healthcare, education and transport. There is room for competition between businesses, but you tend not to get the super-rich bribing your political representatives because companies don't get too large or powerful.
Ideally, such as in Switzerland, such systems operate via holding referendums on most laws passed, thus ensuring politicians and the law are in tune with what your country wants and needs.
Socialism is about working together through co-operative schemes, with the state providing necessities such as healthcare, education and transport. There is room for competition between businesses, but you tend not to get the super-rich bribing your political representatives because companies don't get too large or powerful.
Ideally, such as in Switzerland, such systems operate via holding referendums on most laws passed, thus ensuring politicians and the law are in tune with what your country wants and needs.
#169 to #117
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oscartg **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-] Socialism *is* dictatorship.
The only difference is that instead of one person, or a small group, "dictating" how the product of your labor will be used the entire rest of the society gets to vote on how your right to your own work and property will be violated.
Socialism *is* dictatorship.
The only difference is that instead of one person, or a small group, "dictating" how the product of your labor will be used the entire rest of the society gets to vote on how your right to your own work and property will be violated.
Socialism *is* dictatorship.
#235 to #195
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oscartg **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-] > the nation rated as the most democratic
My point exactly. "Democracy" just means "mob rule". Without guiding principles of individual rights and responsibilities, and without people willing to uphold those principles, the mob will eventually devour itself with "democracy".
If your country is "rated" as most democratic that just means that you answer to the most dictators. They'll come for your stuff sooner or later. I hope you are able to have a good life, at least for a while, before that happens.
My point exactly. "Democracy" just means "mob rule". Without guiding principles of individual rights and responsibilities, and without people willing to uphold those principles, the mob will eventually devour itself with "democracy".
If your country is "rated" as most democratic that just means that you answer to the most dictators. They'll come for your stuff sooner or later. I hope you are able to have a good life, at least for a while, before that happens.
#256 to #245
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oscartg **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-] Yes. Voting under certain inviolable principles of individual rights. In other words, you can't take away someone's rightfully-owned property by majority vote.
Under capitalism this is not allowed, since it would violate the owner's property rights.
Under socialism you can do this easily, if you have the votes.
Socialism is nothing but a dictatorship of the mob.
Under capitalism this is not allowed, since it would violate the owner's property rights.
Under socialism you can do this easily, if you have the votes.
Socialism is nothing but a dictatorship of the mob.
#261 to #256
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cringeage (11/30/2011) [-] Oh fuck off. So the main difference between the two systems is that one lets you think you own property then forces you to sell it, and one is democratic? Why would millions of people vote to take property off some poor bastard? Besides which, this is not an underlying principle, and could easily be avoided through law. Socialism does not pervert democracy, it works with it.
#269 to #261
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oscartg **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-] > So the main difference between the two systems is that one lets you think you own property then forces you to sell it, and one is democratic?
No, a Capitalist economic system holds ownership of private property as its most important and inviolable principle, and *no one* can force you to sell it.
A "democratic" system can just take your stuff any time it wants as long as you have enough votes.
> Why would millions of people vote to take property off some poor bastard?
*One* poor bastard? They wouldn't. Not worth it.
*Millions* of poor bastards? Now we're talkin'! :D Let's get the government to take all their stuff and give it to us!
> Socialism does not pervert democracy, it works with it.
Oh fuck off. Socialism doesn't "pervert" democracy, socialism *is* democracy. It's the same fucking thing, the biggest mob gets to rape everyone else.
You need to learn what "democracy", "socialism", "capitalism", etc. mean before you try to discuss these things.
No, a Capitalist economic system holds ownership of private property as its most important and inviolable principle, and *no one* can force you to sell it.
A "democratic" system can just take your stuff any time it wants as long as you have enough votes.
> Why would millions of people vote to take property off some poor bastard?
*One* poor bastard? They wouldn't. Not worth it.
*Millions* of poor bastards? Now we're talkin'! :D Let's get the government to take all their stuff and give it to us!
> Socialism does not pervert democracy, it works with it.
Oh fuck off. Socialism doesn't "pervert" democracy, socialism *is* democracy. It's the same fucking thing, the biggest mob gets to rape everyone else.
You need to learn what "democracy", "socialism", "capitalism", etc. mean before you try to discuss these things.
#291 to #269
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cringeage (11/30/2011) [-] No, you do. Capitalism and Socialism are systems of economic organisation, not governorship or voting.
Democracy does not result in mob rule, or countries with greater degrees of democracy would not flourish as they do.
If you're stinking poor because there's an economic recession and have to sell your property to eat, then that's forcing you. If the state provides food because it gives two shits about you, that's socialism.
Democracy does not result in mob rule, or countries with greater degrees of democracy would not flourish as they do.
If you're stinking poor because there's an economic recession and have to sell your property to eat, then that's forcing you. If the state provides food because it gives two shits about you, that's socialism.
#294 to #291
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oscartg **User deleted account** (11/30/2011) [-] > Capitalism and Socialism are systems of economic organisation, not governorship or voting.
No shit.
> If you're stinking poor because there's an economic recession and have to sell your property to eat, then that's forcing you.
Buulll-shiiiit. That's *circumstances* forcing you. *MUCH* different than a bunch of other people ganging up on you and coercing you into giving up your property on their terms.
Get your head out of your ass.
No shit.
> If you're stinking poor because there's an economic recession and have to sell your property to eat, then that's forcing you.
Buulll-shiiiit. That's *circumstances* forcing you. *MUCH* different than a bunch of other people ganging up on you and coercing you into giving up your property on their terms.
Get your head out of your ass.
#318 to #294
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cringeage (11/30/2011) [-] Sigh. If you weren't such a fucking greedy bastard then why would they think you didn't deserve your property? If you owning property is an obstruction to the public good, then you shouldn't own that property, or should at least co-operate with people. I don't have time for self-serving bullshit.
#321 to #318
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oscartg **User deleted account** (12/01/2011) [-] There is no such thing as "the public good".
"The Public" is not an entity unto itself, which thinks with one mind and speaks with one mouth and fills one belly when it eats.
"The Public" is made up of individual human beings. Something can be good, or bad, only from the point of view of a human individual. A group cannot experience hunger, or thirst, or joy or sadness or pride or shame. Only individual humans can, and material wealth can only benefit inividual human beings. There is only The Good of each individual.
When we work together, as uncoerced, free people, we can achieve more of that Good for more and more people. We can never achieve anything good by forcibly subjugating the individual's Good to the whims and benefits of others.
You've swallowed so much of the socialist kool aid you can't even comprehend the fact that the human individual, not the amorphous collective, is the important factor in all human concerns.
"The Public" is not an entity unto itself, which thinks with one mind and speaks with one mouth and fills one belly when it eats.
"The Public" is made up of individual human beings. Something can be good, or bad, only from the point of view of a human individual. A group cannot experience hunger, or thirst, or joy or sadness or pride or shame. Only individual humans can, and material wealth can only benefit inividual human beings. There is only The Good of each individual.
When we work together, as uncoerced, free people, we can achieve more of that Good for more and more people. We can never achieve anything good by forcibly subjugating the individual's Good to the whims and benefits of others.
You've swallowed so much of the socialist kool aid you can't even comprehend the fact that the human individual, not the amorphous collective, is the important factor in all human concerns.
#244 to #235
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zevran (11/30/2011) [-] I think you've heard too much anti socialist propaganda. Going to the extreme either way is a bad idea. It's all about finding the middle way. It's quit clear that Social Democracies are the most successfull nations in the world. They are the most free, most successfull, least corrupt, richest and most peacefull countries in the world. If you consider that dictatorship then I'll accept it. I'd rather the goverment spend the tax money on health care than a huge millitary.
