im atheist and i wont slam your faith but it does have loopholes cause last time i checked earth aint on top of a turtle >_> also love thy neghibor huh explain that to the Muslims you guys killed in the crusades >_> again loopholes. And need I say about the preists ????

Maybe you should do a little research before you say shit like this. The crusades were fought because the muslims had stolen land from us and were raping, killing, and generally oppressing the Catholics that remained in that land. The church fought the crusades to rescue their people. Fuck off.

Calm down a bit, man. There's no need to act so hostilely.

how fucking old are you???? Dumb shit yeah thats what happened but hey in the bible it says kiling is a sin no? thats what i thought

Killing someone in self defense is generally not considered a sin. Nor is killing someone in war. In this case, the church was defending itself and the crusaders were fighting a war. In this respect, no sin was committed.

Killing in some-one in self defense is still unacceptable. It's a tough thing to say, but while self-defense is socially acceptable (and always will be), it's not what Jesus would do. Personally, I'd defend myself, because I'm not perfect, even though I'd like to be.

In Matthew 5:39 (NIV 2001), Jesus says, "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If some-one strikes you on the right cheek, turn and offer him the other also."

whoa, he said if someone hits you. There's a difference between a slap in the face and the mass murder of your people.

There is a difference. But don't forget, Jesus was hated by pretty much every religious and political figurehead in his time, and he was eventually badly beaten, publicly humiliated, and nailed to a cross.

But Jesus intervened in the stoning of Mary Magdalen. How would you have saved the Christian men, women and children from an extremely hostile enemy without using force to protect them? The crusades were a matter of intervention, not murder. the Church was defending itself in that its people were being killed, but the rescue of the Christians is a matter of intervention as well. God condemns those who don't help their brothers and sisters in need.

I'm not saying what they did was wrong; I'm just saying that it doesn't mean it isn't murder.

But murder is wrong, so how can you say that what they did isn't wrong without conceding that they didn't commit murder?

War is war. People will die. Murder is not a good option, but in war, there's not much of an alternative. If you can solve such a crisis without murder, then that's the better option.

And the overall question in this discussion is whether or not it's a sin to kill in war. Based on your last few posts, I would think not.

That's a tough one. I know that even if I was a soldier, I would have a guilty conscience for killing people; even if they're shooting at me. It wouldn't keep fe from pulling the trigger, but I'd still feel bad after combat.

thats bull shit murder is murder if you can go around killing people so can i when you join the army you become a fukin serial killer. not to mention the fuckin templars who were promised if they kill people. So basiclly they changed the rules

So you're telling me if you and your family is being murdered and you kill the attacker you've committed murder yourself? You must be trolling, nobody is this stupid.

im not a troll but think about im right no matter how you look at it murder is murder

Yes, you still have committed murder. I don't think there's anything wrong with self-defense; but murder in self-defense is still murder.

I've never heard about the turtle thing... to be perfectly honest...
The Pope may have technically started "The Crusades" but it was in response to the Moorish Empire's expansion and conquest into long time Christian dominated land (Like... all of Spain). I don't believe that there's any good justification for war; but war is a grim reality of humanity.
Look... people do bad things, no-one is free from sin, not even the Pope. The priests that were found guilty of child molestation were only human, and while what they did was wrong and terrible, it just proves that every group of people have both good and bad people in them.

To this im not denying i belive in yin yang with good comes evil im just saying christians themselves have wen't against the bible. Like my friend said it is a sin to lie right (something along those lines) My clever response was so is pre maratel sex. This made him shut up for quite some time. All im saying is all religoen has loopholes in it

Nobody is free from sin. I have done things I regret, especially before I was saved. I'm still struggling with addiction, but it doesn't mean I can't pick myself back up again. People think the concept of repentance is hypocritical, but they only consider the forgiveness part.

Yes, asking forgiveness is a big part of it; it's about admitting wrongs. But the repentance part is what most people ignore (even fellow Crhistians), and that's about making it right and promising to both God and yourself to not do wrong again. Unfortunately, most Christians today can be hypocritical; but the same as we shouldn't judge homosexuals or atheists based on stereotypes, you all shouldn't do the same to us.

I am atheists and i dont slam any relgioen and call it stupid cuase hey i think this just happed by chance X"D.

You belive in someone who created us makes some sense

ALL HAIL THE VELOCIRAPTOR JESUS

fuckin anons....

thanks you