pls

That's a generalization. Don't do that. Some religious people are good without the base ethic code for religion.

We are inherently different. Why should your will of doing good be any more valid than a religious persons? Consider the following scenario.

Religious person is poor. Religious person REALLY needs money for his own food, but he doesn't mind. He is motivated by the belief that he will go to Heaven. He doesn't care about his own hunger. He feeds the homeless instead to sacrifice himself. An atheist would NOT do the same thing, because he would have to take care of himself first. He does not believe in Heaven.

I specifically stated "And even if they are a good person" to cover that. Regardless generalization is correct regardless of what it is about. That does mean that exceptions to the rule does not exist, merely that is it uncommon. And if you can give me a list of religious people who do that without getting some kind of benefit, then great. Alternatively I can think of many athiests who have made great contributions of self. That also does not set the rule however. You are attempting contrary logic to disprove my point, it will not work,.

Maybe uncommon in America.

Well, it did work, but whatever.

I was a person like that. I would go around fantasizing about how I would kill people and I really did feel like acting out on it. So, I thought that religion might help repress those feelings and they would have too.

I like ho people, and I mean this with no offense, try to act as if one first world country is grossly different from another. We may have different minor customs, but general human nature and bias is universal to people of similar means and social structure. You fantasized about causing death, and I volunteer for charities. Neither of us set the rule, but we are a statistic. not all people of African-American decent have dark skin, doesn't mean that all or even most have light skin.

Yeah, it sort of looks that way to me. I live in Sweden. No people talking about religion at all. Nowhere. Unless you want to.

All the time when I go on FJ I hear Americans with stories about how annoyed and angry they are because some religious nut did that and this and I can't relate at all.

Also, your first sentence is paradoxical. "I like how people" implies that you're looking down on people. That is offensive. So, don't say that if you don't want to offend.

I do not mean it to offend, it is yet another generalization. And I do like it, because it is an interesting psychological meme present across many cultures. Some people in Britain pretend that America is different from them, and America pretends that those in Germany is different, etc. When beyond our minor custom based differences we all end up at the same type of social structure and general belief systems.

You're right, but I am right too.

Just consider that there might be some people who WERE good but TURNED bad. They'd really need some form of help for that. I can promise you, it's possible.

smile.jpg will eat your soul.

How so. Those who do good without reward are the truly deserving. Basic logic. A good example would be: Who would you rather have as a friend, a friend who truly likes you, or a friend who truly likes you when you give him/her stuff?

That's a bad comparison.

How so? the fact is if you are a good person who believes in a deity, then no matter what good deed you do, whether you mean it or not, is stained by expecting a reward for it in the afterlife. Even if you do not do it for the reward.

Listen: You like a friend for selfish reasons. You like him or her because she's like you. That's one possibility. You simply don't want to change your ways because you don't give a fuck about the people around you.

And consider this: You're around people who you DON'T like, who do naught but errors in your eyes, who you have all the reason to hate. You accept them. Because your religion tells you to turn the other cheek. You wouldn't be able to go a day without thinking that way.

What that has to do with the current point I am not seeing. Which is that human behavior is conditional, as is comparative morality. Doing right without expectation of reward, will always trump doing right because your deity will reward you. Regardless of in addition you genuinely wish to do right. Because no matter how you look at it, expecting a reward for it creates a bias. If you never believed in a deity to begin with, would you have done good? Or was it that believing in the deity changed your view genuinely. You will never know, but the atheist will have chosen of their own free will and without expectation of compensation.

consider the following; god is not supposed to be your friend. he is supposed to be your creator, which means he can do what the hell he wants. the whole bible is about handing the free will he gave you back. that shits hard to do. its not just say 3 hail mary's and your sins are forgiven. blah blah blah, im drunk, fuck you.

I agree, if he exists then his will would be law as his will is ultimate power, but power does not equal truth. Even if a all powerful deity who created everything does exist, his idea of right and wrong are just that, his idea. No more, no less. That is why I do not like the idea of the Christian God in general, nothing against those who do, I just do not. He gave us free will and encourages us to think for ourselves, then penalizes us for questioning everything and doing as we please. That is like giving a kid a toy, telling him to play and have fun with it, then grounding him when he does.

well, he wants you to see the toy, realise that the toy will get you nowhere fast, and hand the toy back because all it leads to is a generation of slutty, small minded idiots. if used like people want it to be used. but when one reads the bible all the way through, not just all the baby sweet jesus crap, one realises that it is not a bad way to live. too many people look at one person, or a group of people that are using it as an excuse to do whatever they want, because "hey man, its an age of grace! we can do whatever we want because we are instantly forgiven!"

A good point. What also always annoyed me was his Omnipotence. If he knows everything whether it has happened or not, then he knows what we will do. This means that a pedophile rapist murderer could rape and kill a child, and repent and go to Heaven. This means God knew he was going to commit horrible acts before he did them, and rewarded him for it. This also means he sentenced the child to a horrible death, and hell.

god gave us FREE WILL. we have the ability to do what we want to. and no, neither you nor i dont get why that shit happens, but remember, if that rapist has not truly repented, as in, weeping and gnashing of teeth style, and actually means his repentance, he will havew to answer for every soul that he damaged. though i personally think that pedophilia is an unforgivable sin, because, "do unto the children, and you have done unto me". or something similar. what the biblke says that god wants is for us to conquer the flesh, or in other words, give the free will back.

Satan convinced Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree Of Knowledge, whether that gave free will, self awareness, or whatever else is up to interpretation.

cant tell if trolling, or just stupid...

i didn't say i was atheist. the nine divines is all i need

and it was more directed to just people that think like that, and I've met idiots that have said shit like that before. Again, bad mood.

I'm really just in a bad mood right now.