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Latest users (2): Aethlius, leadstriker, anonymous(21).
What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
User avatar #68927 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
Military Draft: Good or bad? Moral or immoral? Why and why not?
User avatar #69011 to #68927 - brendantheferret (09/06/2014) [-]
I don't believe in the draft system, except in a time of extremely dire need (highly unlikely that we would even need to use it for a long time due to all the inbreds who would sign up for us)
User avatar #68992 to #68927 - alimais (09/05/2014) [-]
It's nice in a neutral country like mine
User avatar #68987 to #68927 - pebar (09/05/2014) [-]
Only in extreme emergency, and by that I mean Red Dawn shit.
Apart from that, a draft is completely incompatible with an active foreign policy like America's.
User avatar #68959 to #68927 - byposted (09/04/2014) [-]
Even in this era of professional armies, military drafts are necessary. The state should retain the power to mobilize the general population, if only to invoke it in times of crisis.

While the system may be abused, and used to subsidize oversea adventures with the lives of young men, this does not speak of the machinery's immorality; rather, it shows how governments may go rouge.

Comparing conscription to slavery is like associating taxation with theft. While, in the literal sense, one does not choose to sign up for the draft, neither does one "opt in" to paying taxes. These are services which are expected of any people. "B...but muh freedumbs" constitutes as much of an argument here as "Social contract? I didn't sign shit lol"

Outside of anarchocap circles, people generally understand that such "force" as the state exhibits in collecting revenue is beneficial to society. The same is true of collecting a list of names and addresses, for potential use under the banner of national defense.
User avatar #68960 to #68959 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
Should the punishment for not wishing to kill people or die be death or imprisonment?
Isn't it fair not to want to kill people? Or to not want to die while trying to kill people ?

I consider conscription as slavery because it places you in a position against your will, where you have to kill people, risk injury or death and if you don't do those two things, you're imprisoned or executed. Your rights are taken from you for an ultimate price. I don't think it's reasonable to force that on anyone under any circumstance.

I think that if the threat is real and about to change their society for the worst, people will come to fight, they don't need to be shoved out the door.

Conscription might be expected, like paying taxes, but I am questioning whether it should be. We can't be too quick to go along with something just because it's tradition.
User avatar #68974 to #68960 - byposted (09/04/2014) [-]
A man, with ample finances, who fails to pay taxes will be punished. A man, with the necessary health and strength, who abandons his nation in its time of need should be punished.

Very few conscripts, historically, have had good morale. The lot of them were herded onto the field, with bayonets at their rears, proving to be unreliable fighters. I am not implying that war is just; killing, while disturbing, is a reality of our world. That is what the Qu'ran teaches, and I think in such empirical terms.

There is more to slavery than a lack of free will. A slave is not only "deprived" of rights, but property, as a member of a distinct class. It is simply incorrect to consider as "slavery" a mere obligation - like an unfortunate might do of his minimum wage job ("wageslavery"), or a medieval peasant may have done of his serfdom.

Volunteers are always coveted during times of war. The problem is that the amount of idealistic, able-bodied men always has a limit. It is for this reason that generals rely on conscripts - they may serve as cannon fodder, while the dedicated cadres live to fight another day.

Asking questions is good. It is due to them that the United States is not likely to pull another Vietnam in the future. But the mistakes of the Vietnam War do not hold weight on the draft system itself - only its implementation.
User avatar #68985 to #68974 - eight (09/05/2014) [-]
" A man, with the necessary health and strength, who abandons his nation in its time of need should be punished. "

I don't agree that the nation needs the man for battle. That could leave him scarred for life if he survives (and often does for those who see combat) or of course could end his life. I think the man should be able to choose when his life will end and where on his own terms (if he doesn't die by accident). I don't think it's abandonment if he's still productive at home and keeping the economy stable while others decide to go to war.

I do agree that the man should pay taxes, that's not asking too much of anyone.

" I am not implying that war is just; killing, while disturbing, is a reality of our world. "

It's a reality that I think all should be able to avoid. Leave it to the people who want to kill or are willing to risk their lives for the betterment of their nation. And make no mistake, there's plenty of those, at least in the U.S.

"There is more to slavery than a lack of free will. A slave is not only "deprived" of rights, but property, as a member of a distinct class. It is simply incorrect to consider as "slavery" a mere obligation - like an unfortunate might do of his minimum wage job ("wageslavery"), or a medieval peasant may have done of his serfdom."

In the military you are also deprived of property or a lot of things. And you are even considered as property, often referred to as being a number. That's pretty close to slavery in my eyes. Too close for my taste especially if you were forced into it.

"Volunteers are always coveted during times of war. "

Well, I might be more open to conscription if the politicians and other rich members of society are right down there with us in the mud, with bullets flying over our heads. That includes the President. No one should be exempt, no matter how much money they have or what position in government they hold. Someone will always exist to take their place, even if it's temporarily.
#68988 to #68985 - temporarily ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
If someone gets to screw the people it may as well be me.
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#68956 to #68927 - byposted has deleted their comment [-]
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#68958 to #68956 - eight has deleted their comment [-]
#68931 to #68927 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
Moral, nobody should be allowed to benefit from their nation without assisting those who are fighting and dying for it.

Practical or efficient? Not in this century unless everybody got rid of their nukes and regional powers started fighting. Even then tech and training beats numbers anyday, which is why the US is the sole super power and china isn't.
User avatar #68933 to #68931 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
If they are being forced to do something against their will, then they aren't benefiting from anything.

And even before that point, it relies on what you personally call benefit and it's value. Some people might feel that risking life and taking it from others is not worth the "benefit" the nation is offering.

And is military draft any different from slavery?
#68935 to #68933 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
It's a very simple concept, a nation provides you security and the freedom to live your life and allows you to benefit from the national success. In fact in many nations the government will subsidize your lifestyle so you don't have to work at all or very little. Every citizen benefits from it so every citizen should be required to contribute, it follows the same logic as taxes. Should some not be required to pay taxes while still benefiting from the public works projects? No.

If they feel that the nation is not worth it then they should be deported, if they choose to live in a country they must be fight when it's threatened, once again a simple concept.

And slavery isn't mutually beneficial, you have one party that is exploiting the other party. A draft is community defense. Only cowards refuse to defend their community when it's threatened but enjoy it when it is at peace.
User avatar #68940 to #68935 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"It's a very simple concept, a nation provides you security and the freedom to live your life and allows you to benefit from the national success."

Freedom is not something that is given to you. It's yours to begin with. Your life, your choices. It's not something to be bargained with. It's not something to be taken away.

Security is not a good enough reason to warrant blood stained hands or a premature death in my opinion. Besides, there are many people perfectly willing to take on that job themselves. I'll do my part by being the average productive member of society.

" In fact in many nations the government will subsidize your lifestyle so you don't have to work at all or very little....e same logic as taxes. Should some not be required to pay taxes while still benefiting from the public works projects? No. "

The benefit is not valuable enough for me to risk my life or to kill others. It's worth paying taxes for, but not for killing or risking my life.

"If they feel that the nation is not worth it then they should be deported, if they choose to live in a country they must be fight when it's threatened, once again a simple concept. "

Why go to deportation? That removes a productive member of society and it demonstrates the U.S isn't interested in actual freedom, but only the illusion of it. What you consider important, others may not.

"And slavery isn't mutually beneficial, you have one party that is exploiting the other party. A draft is community defense. Only cowards refuse to defend their community when it's threatened but enjoy it when it is at peace. "

That assumes your community is actually being threatened. It might just be the governments interests being threatened, the governments interests aren't necessarily representative of a communities interests. You can call them cowards, but really what you're saying is that you're pissed that you decided to do something they don't want to and you think it's unfair that they aren't made to do it.
#68941 to #68940 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
Right, the average north korean is born free and nobody has ever died to protect the freedoms of their countrymen. You don't have to be thankful fro anything, you did all on your own because you were born free. Here's a news flash for you, freedom can be taken away. It's happened throughout history, it's happening today and it will continue to happen. Men with guns force others to conform to their collective will and you can say that you're free all you want but the only way you're going to be truly free is for some other men with guns to fight for your freedom.

Why do you think people immigrate to first world countries? Because we provide security and walls, and the dead soldiers provided you with your opportunities and freedoms. You didn't have jack shit to do with it.

I already acknowledged that a draft isn't needed in our current world, that isn't the argument. We're talking about if it's moral. The "average member of society" doesn't mean shit if the entire nation is being threatened. If the nation falls you fall too.

Why are you talking about the U.S.? This is about the draft in general. If the nation is about to be destroyed (this would be the requirement for a draft) and you refuse to help then why bother keeping you here? You aren't helping the cause in a trying time. you aren't my countryman, you can gtfo of my country while braver men fight for their homes.

The nation is a system of communities, a draft would only be utilized if the community was threatened. If you don't like your government you can vote them out if you'd like, but if things don't go your way you can't just decide that you're not going to contribute anymore. I'm pissed off about my countries foreign aid, but that doesn't give me the right to not pay taxes.

By participating in a nation you benefit from the sacrifices of others, if you don't want to help when others need you then you aren't worthy of enjoying the benefits the dead provide. We don't want cowards.
User avatar #68943 to #68941 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"Why are you talking about the U.S.? This is about the draft in general. If the nation is about to be destroyed (this would be the requirement for a draft) and you refuse to help then why bother keeping you here? You aren't helping the cause in a trying time. you aren't my countryman, you can gtfo of my country while braver men fight for their homes. "

I live in the U.S. It's specifically relevant to me, a nation that has forced the draft onto others in the past and not for the destruction of the nation.

Even if the nation is about to be destroyed, I think it should still be up to the individuals to fight or not. That's what freedom is all about. It would probably be a good idea to fight if you're about to be destroyed, but there are many people who would not be good at combat and shouldn't be placed in that position. You're not helping the moral system by supporting a system which takes away freedom.

"The nation is a system of communities, a draft would only be utilized if the community was threatened. If you don't like your government you can vote them out if you'd like, but if things don't go your way you can't just decide that you're not going to contribute anymore. I'm pissed off about my countries foreign aid, but that doesn't give me the right to not pay taxes. "

That's what freedom is. Not being subjected to the will of others, but instead making decisions based on your own. We should be able to honor each others choices, even if we don't agree with them. Your taxes are not causing you to murder others or to risk your life, it's a bit more serious of a situation with a draft. It deals literally with life and death.

"By participating in a nation you benefit from the sacrifices of others, if you don't want to help when others need you then you aren't worthy of enjoying the benefits the dead provide. We don't want cowards. "

It was there choice to sacrifice themselves. They understood what they were doing and they were happy to do it. I appreciate that.
#68945 to #68943 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The influence of the US abroad benefits the average citizen. As I said, you don't get to decide if you want to contribute or not if you're benefiting from the country.

Either we all fight as one or we all die resisting those who would harm us. Living as slaves is not an option and there are things worse than death, not resisting invaders makes you a traitor and you shouldn't be allowed to live in your country.

Paying foreign aid will empower those who I believe will lead the world into a bad place, but I still pay them. That's dealing with a nuclear holocaust but I don't decide what I can do. You are being subjected to force when you pay taxes, but it is still necessary for the structure of the nation.

Nobody cares if you appreciate it if people are dying while you sit on your butt. Everyone pitches in if they're needed, no exceptions. Either answer the call to arms or get out, it's fair.
User avatar #68948 to #68945 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"The influence of the US abroad benefits the average citizen. As I said, you don't get to decide if you want to contribute or not if you're benefiting from the country."

Then you're not truly free and you're not actually fighting for freedom. If you're not fighting for freedom, what are you fighting for?

"Either we all fight as one or we all die resisting those who would harm us. Living as slaves is not an option and there are things worse than death, not resisting invaders makes you a traitor and you shouldn't be allowed to live in your country. "

The U.S fought and won the Revolutionary war with voluntary militias against a conscription service that was the British. Apparently, your black and white reasoning is not always true. You'd still be a slave if forced into the military, just one with different end goals.

"Paying foreign aid will empower those who I believe will lead the world into a bad place, but I still pay them. That's dealing with a nuclear holocaust but I don't decide what I can do. You are being subjected to force when you pay taxes, but it is still necessary for the structure of the nation."

You're already paying foreign aid, the best you can do is protest it. We're not currently in a draft, we can try to settle the issue before it begins again.

"Nobody cares if you appreciate it if people are dying while you sit on your butt. Everyone pitches in if they're needed, no exceptions. Either answer the call to arms or get out, it's fair. "

I'm not sitting on my butt, I'm choosing not to kill someone or die. That's a just reason not to participate in a situation that is not threatening my life or family.









#68950 to #68948 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The freedom to benefit and not contribute is not a freedom. Point to where I said that every war required conscription. By that logic you're a slave because you have to pay taxes, if we're equating being forced to do something to slavery. I don't see your point on the foreign aid part. You can fluff it up to make it seem like whatever you want, but in the end you're still not doing anything while others die on your behalf.
User avatar #68952 to #68950 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
You are contributing. You're just not fighting. Not everything revolves around murder and death. We are fully capable of winning wars without every last available man. Where did I say that you claimed every war required conscription? We are slaves in that respect and I don't like it either, but what can we do to stop it? I don't to kill or die trying to stop taxes, that would be a gross over-reaction anyway.

You can't say that someone isn't doing anything just because they're not doing what you'd do. Well you can say that, you have that right, but I think you'd be dishonest and distasteful to say that.
#68954 to #68952 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
In the scenario we're talking about it's been decided that they need you to fight, the draft takes what it needs, nothing more.

"The U.S fought and won the Revolutionary war with voluntary militias against a conscription service that was the British. Apparently, your black and white reasoning is not always true"

You implied that my position was that every war for freedom requires conscription, and tried to use the revolutionary war as an example, which is pretty strange in and of itself because we did use conscription to an extent during those colonial times.

Really? So you honestly believe that taxation=slavery? Why are we even talking.

And again in this scenario the we're talking about people who are needed to fight and don't, I never said that every single person has to be conscripted, only that those who are chosen must serve.
User avatar #68957 to #68954 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
They've decided we needed to fight before, but they really didn't need us.

"You implied that my position was that every war for freedom requires conscription, and tried to use the revolutionary war as an example, which is pretty strange in and of itself because we did use conscription to an extent during those colonial times. "

Who determines which wars need conscription and which don't? And how do they know? My example pointed out that in the Revolution, we needed conscription, but we held to our desire for freedom and kept a voluntary service. We still won despite being vastly outnumbered by a conscripted service.

"Really? So you honestly believe that taxation=slavery? Why are we even talking."

It's not unlike slavery. You're forced to do something without choice and punished severely if you disobey.

"And again in this scenario the we're talking about people who are needed to fight and don't, I never said that every single person has to be conscripted, only that those who are chosen must serve. "

I've answered this in this comment already. See Revolution.
User avatar #68942 to #68941 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"Right, the average north korean is born free and nobody has ever died to protect the freedoms of their countrymen. "

North Koreans are subjected to what I would call an immoral government. If they want to get out of that situation, they should fight for it.
Of course people die to protect their countrymen.

"You don't have to be thankful fro anything, you did all on your own because you were born free. Here's a news flash for you, freedom can be taken away"

I'm thankful. Yes, I was born free, as were you. It can't be taken away, unless there is a way to control your thinking process. But I think I get what you mean. Yes, it can be partially taken away as your options are limited. The question is if it's the moral thing to do?

". It's happened throughout history, it's happening today and it will ...but the only way you're going to be truly free is for some other men with guns to fight for your freedom. "

Of course it's happened. The key is to overcome it. Let the people who want to do the fighting, do the fighting, especially if it's not even on our soil or near our families and homes. I'm pro-choice on this matter.

"Why do you think people immigrate to first world countries?.. You didn't have jack shit to do with it. "

I'm not pretending that I did. Nobody should be forced to kill or to risk their lives. All I'm saying.

"I already acknowledged that a draft isn't needed..mean shit if the entire nation is being threatened. If the nation falls you fall too. "

Actually, no. That's an assumption. If the government falls, someone else takes charge. That doesn't mean you die, or that everything changes. It might just mean new leadership. The draft could start again one day, war will always exist, that's why it's important to try and resolve the matter now, before we're placed in that position again.
#68944 to #68942 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
And what if some North Koreans think like you and decide that fighting for their community isn't worth it, would it be immoral to draft them into a resistance movement? And if the government is toppled, should they be able to enjoy the freedoms others have died for? And what if the previous government tried to reinstall itself, should some citizens be exempt from fighting for their nation because they're scared? Is it moral that they should benefit from a free korea even though they refuse to assist their fellow man?

You cannot be free if you're under the threat of force. There is no way to overcome people forcing others into submission besides fighting. You're not going to stop a bullet with good feelings or pacifism. Fighting on foreign soil means that you're making sure that you don't have to fight on your soil. In today's world we are all connected, it's not as simple as only fighting if the enemy is on your doorstep, at that point it's gone to far, civilians are going to die en mass, and it might be too late to stop them.

Being pro choice isn't an option when you're receiving benefits. If that is your belief then it's best that you leave during war time and don't return. Of course nobody should be forced to risk their lives, nobody should have to suffer or die either but life doesn't work like that.

If you're willing to see the destruction of your country instead of fighting for it you've really just proved my point, it's all cowardice. What if the new government was north korea for example? You'd be okay with living in a totalitarian shithole because you're scared of dying? What life is that? That shows me that you don't care about freedom, you just care about saving yourself, which means that you don't care about your country. Therefor you should be deported if war time comes.

“Cowardice rightly understood begins with selfishness and ends with shame.”
― José Rizal
User avatar #68946 to #68944 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"And what if some North Koreans think like you and decide that fighting for their community isn't worth it, would it be immoral to draft them into a resistance movement?"

They don't have much of a community, it's definitely not worth fighting for. If I were North Korean, I'd probably just want blood more than anything. I would make it my goal to topple that government just to take out another evil from the world. In my opinion, it would be immoral to draft people into a resistance, but not to start one or to ask and plead for volunteers. But I bet if a resistance started, people would join, many of them, of their own will. I'd much rather have a person who wants to fight than a person that doesn't at my back helping the cause

"And if the government is toppled, should they be able to enjoy the freedoms others have died for? "

Yes, because others made that choice of their own will, knowing full well that they might not make it through. But they personally thought it would be worth it, that's what matters.

"And what if the previous government tried to reinstall itself, should some citizens be exempt from fighting for their nation because they're scared?"

They should be exempt from fighting if they don't want to. There will always be people that do want to, for many different reasons.

"You cannot be free if you're under the threat of force. There is no way to overcome people forcing others into submission besides fighting. "

It won't necessarily take every single person to stop a threat. Leave it to the people that want to.
Civilians will die wherever there is fighting. I won't personally be spurred to fight until it's on my doorstep. Some may not ever be spurred to fight. Some want to fight before there is even an enemy to fight.

The benefits that I receive are not worth risking my life or killing others over.

No one should have to risk their life if they don't want to. Nor should they be made killers. This is why drafts are immoral in my opinion.
#68947 to #68946 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The tolerance of cowardice is the first step to oppression. It's a travesty to think that there are some people out there who are content to do nothing while people die on their behalf. I will never recognize the "freedom" to live as a parasite and wait for the real freedoms to be taken away.
User avatar #68949 to #68947 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"The tolerance of cowardice is the first step to oppression."

Can you demonstrate that it's cowardice? And even if you could demonstrate that it's cowardice, can you demonstrate that it is unacceptable or unreasonable of an action?

"It's a travesty to think that there are some people out there who are content to do nothing while people die on their behalf. "

They aren't doing "nothing", they are still doing something, they just aren't fighting. Its a travesty that you think everyone should be forced into slavery so they can murder others and possibly die for a cause they may not believe in or may not feel is important. You're reasoning is far too totalitarian for my taste.

"I will never recognize the "freedom" to live as a parasite and wait for the real freedoms to be taken away. "

It's not good to be parasitic, but that doesn't require everyone to do the same thing either. Let the people that want to go to war go to war. Let those who aren't capable or aren't brave or find other matters more important to decide for themselves. I think a society that incorporates real freedom is going to be far stronger than one that doesn't.

#68953 to #68949 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
You've already stated that you don't want to fight because you're scared of dying and you stated that it wouldn't be that bad if your country got conquered by new leaders, and you've stated that you're fine with others dying for you while you do nothing. I consider that cowardice and it's unacceptable because cowardice dooms nations.

Your definition of slavery is ridiculous, are you enslaved because you have to obey traffic laws? Seriously, it's bullshit.

And this whole scenario is based on the idea that a draft is called which means that they need you, sure other people who weren't chosen can still be factory workers and we need them, but in that scenario the government also needs fighters. They don't need you as a worker. Believing in a cause is not required, you don't get to choose everything that goes on in the world, just like I don't get to choose to fund Israel. The nation has decided thats what it needs, so thats what we have to do. In return we get to live comfortably.

Real freedom isn't benefiting from others sacrifices while you stay at home when you're needed, thats bullshit.

User avatar #68955 to #68953 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"ou've already stated that you don't want to fight because you're scared of dying you stated that it wouldn't be that bad if your country got conquered by new leaders, you've stated that you're fine with others dying for you while you do nothing"

Unless someones was a direct threat to me or my family. But that's pretty rare.
It might not be. I pointed out that you assumed it would be bad as support for your argument to have a draft.

It's their choice. If they think it's a worthy cause then who am I to tell them they're wrong? Assuming there isn't a draft, they wouldn't be forced into fighting, if they chose to fight they did it for their own reasons. That's admirable.

" consider that cowardice and it's unacceptable because cowardice dooms nations."

That's fine. I don't consider it cowardice.

"Your definition of slavery is ridiculous, are you enslaved because you have to obey traffic laws? Seriously, it's bullshit."

Depends on how I weigh the consequences of those traffic laws in respect to the violation. But in general, you're not imprisoned for life or executed for violating a traffic law. I suppose you're not for taxes either, but you will be severely punished for not paying taxes, some might argue those punishments are gross overreactions.

"And this whole scenario...government also needs fighters. "

It's demonstrable in this nations history that they've called drafts when they didn't need us(Vietnam). Or they didn't call a draft, but did need us (Revolutionary War). In both examples, the opposite of what was expected occurred. We lost Vietnam and we won against the British (who were conscripted by the way).

"They don't need ...we get to live comfortably. "

It's not what I chose and apparently there is a huge opposition to the draft in this country. Maybe we can change the law. Besides, choosing to do something for the right reasons is far better than being forced into it.

Real freedom is making your own choices, not being forced into any of them.
User avatar #68928 to #68927 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Immoral. Good or bad depends on the specific conditions. It should be applied when a nation's integrity is being threatened enough.
User avatar #68929 to #68928 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
What if an individual has no interest in killing, even for his or her own safety?
User avatar #68930 to #68929 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
I guess his best chance would be desertion.
User avatar #68932 to #68930 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
But is it ethical to force someone into the military. The entire idea is to fight for your right to be free. But how can you do that when you're not free yourself, but enslaved by the military at threat of incarceration or execution?
User avatar #68934 to #68932 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
You're not free during that time so that in the future others (and possibly you) can be. It might not be ethical, but it can be necessary.
User avatar #68936 to #68934 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
Isn't that a slipper slope? It's not guaranteed that without draftees, you'll lose the war. And even if you do lose, it's not guaranteed that the entire system will change or that you'll lose your freedom.

It seems that the draft is more or less to protect the governing body, rather than the people of the nation and they achieve this by forcing the people, the ones who actually make the country what it is, to risk life and limb and to become murderers in the process.

There is only 1 situation in which I'd be willing to murder or risk my life.

1. We're being exterminated, in which case it's absolutely necessary to fight, otherwise you likely will die or live in camps for the rest of your life.

Any other time, it should be a choice. I might also be more accepting of a draft if government officials were also drafted right along with us.

User avatar #68916 - tredbear (09/04/2014) [-]
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Holy shit, this is big surprise to me.
Ever since those Russian humanitarian trucks arrived, the rebels have been pushing Ukraine forces back.
User avatar #68921 to #68916 - alimais (09/04/2014) [-]
You can't run an army without food & water.
#68923 to #68921 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
I think that providing food and water to party should be treated as allying with that party.

I mean just because there are no US ground troops in Israel the US is still funding their operations.

If I was the leader of a nation and I found out that another nation was supplying my enemies I'd consider them my enemy as well.
User avatar #68924 to #68923 - alimais (09/04/2014) [-]
There are also a lot of civilians who needed help
#68925 to #68924 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
Still if my enemy is benefiting from the aid I would consider the suppliers my enemies as well. It's just good strategy to deter anyone who thinks about assisting those who oppose you.
#68914 - anonymous (09/04/2014) [-]
How do you feel about Technocracy?
User avatar #68962 to #68914 - undeadwill ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Foolish as how would someone determine policy? Other than debate and what would someone whom know chemistry know the proper action in economics or policy? Sure they are smart but think of it this way, Browning made great guns but do you think he would know the best means to write effective tax codes?

No different than the ancient ideals of the philosopher king, the warrior king, or one chosen by god.
User avatar #68991 to #68962 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
Science =/= chemistry. Surely people who are especialized in economic science should deal with the economy, not Walter White. And I think most scientists would be glad to form their policies on debate.
User avatar #68994 to #68991 - undeadwill ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
So you want politicians to understand economics before discussing economics?
User avatar #69018 to #68994 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/07/2014) [-]
That might be a good idea.
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#68920 to #68914 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
scientists can be power hungry dicks too.

i never understood the correlation between science and morality, being a scientist doesn't make you a saint.
User avatar #68990 to #68920 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
It's not that scientists aren't more moral, but you don't expect them to be aligned to a specific ideology, making policies be decided more rationally.
User avatar #68917 to #68914 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
I'm kind of positive about it.
User avatar #68963 to #68917 - undeadwill ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Look above.
User avatar #68915 to #68914 - economicfreedom (09/04/2014) [-]
The US federal reserve is arguably the most powerful institution in the world. If they wanted to, they could throw the world into chaos in a day.
It is run by highly qualified economists.

And even they can't control the complexities of the economy.

If you put scientists in charge, they would still argue about the same things politicians do and they would be subject to the same corruptibility.
User avatar #68918 to #68915 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Maybe with scientists there would be much less partisan bullshit though.
#68911 - tredbear (09/04/2014) [-]
anyone know if Belarus or Iran will join CSTO?
anyone know if Belarus or Iran will join CSTO?
User avatar #68922 to #68911 - alimais (09/04/2014) [-]
Belarus is a member since 2002, Iran is a potential member
User avatar #68907 - nigerianblackguy (09/04/2014) [-]
heartlessrobot is a nigger.
he is very racist towards the Russian people, he goes out of his way to spread bad news about how poor and third world Russia is, and that all Russians are crooks.

That nigger should take a loot at her own country before talking shit about others.

Anti-Nigger, out.
#68913 to #68907 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
If I recall heartlessrobot is a fayg, so he's probably against them because of their tough stance on homosexuals.
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User avatar #68908 to #68907 - heartlessrobot (09/04/2014) [-]
I am against the Russian government, not the people. I am stating the poor state their government has left them in, as I do with multiple other countries.
And I talk shit about my own country too.
Also, I'm a dude.
#68910 to #68908 - nigerianblackguy (09/04/2014) [-]
then explain why you do this?
#68912 to #68910 - heartlessrobot (09/04/2014) [-]
Where does it say that's me on there?
#68900 to #68899 - youregaylol (09/03/2014) [-]
I didn't know you cared <33
User avatar #68901 to #68900 - alimais (09/03/2014) [-]
I laughed
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User avatar #68890 - indulge (09/03/2014) [-]
Does anyone have a video of the Steven Sotloff beheading? Or is it even on the internet at all
#68877 - liberalgodess (09/03/2014) [-]
I love trolling so much
I love trolling so much
#68874 - anonymous (09/03/2014) [-]
#68875 to #68874 - byposted (09/03/2014) [-]
Rape status: Asked for it
#68902 to #68875 - anonymous (09/03/2014) [-]
I'm not american m8
#68872 - byposted (09/03/2014) [-]
Russia Today gets trolled LIVE by crazy-eyed lady
You need to login to view this link

Very professional. I cannot say that I expected anything more from this network when I first posted about it www.funnyjunk.com/politics/68446
#68880 to #68872 - alimais (09/03/2014) [-]
shiggy diggy
User avatar #68879 to #68872 - tredbear (09/03/2014) [-]
So it's OK for Israel to Invade Palestine because " MUH 6 GORILLION"
But it's not Okay For Russia to help protect their people from Poroshenko's bombs?

Poroshenko bombs his own people like Bashir Al-assad does.
#68873 to #68872 - byposted (09/03/2014) [-]
Igor Kolomoisky is, of course, a Zionist Jew [pictured left].

When a hohol, as in the video, claims that RT is financed by the Kremlin, retort with the fact that UT is financed by Jewish Oligarchs, who control Kiev.
User avatar #68891 to #68873 - alimais (09/03/2014) [-]
So Kolomoisky now has additional news channels,

did Poroschenko get additional ones ? Because he already owns Kyivpost, Channel 5 , KP Media , etc
User avatar #68881 to #68873 - alimais (09/03/2014) [-]
He has his own mercs etc
#68867 - anonymous (09/03/2014) [-]
Russia could overwhelm Ukraine. Kiev is already struggling with the pro-separatists, aided by an injection of Russian infantrymen, tanks and artillery. Additionally, for months, Putin has been destabilising Ukraine, and inciting civil war. It would be difficult for any nation to withstand.
Any more Russian interference, and Kiev will be in dire straights.
But the reason we haven't seen a Russian Blitzkrieg is because Putin fears the West. He fears our economic strength, and our ability to export massive fire-power. We are already bulldozing Russia into an economic abyss that will scar Russia for a generation.
That's why Putin is scuttling about anonymously in Ukraine, with "little green men", "lost" paratroopers, and troops with their insignia removed.
That's not an army of conquest, it is an army of shame. And Putin is no warlord, he is a clown. Give him a bloody nose, and send him home.
#68884 to #68867 - dehumanizer ONLINE (09/03/2014) [-]
American goverment money are actualy wasted for posts like this one...
User avatar #68882 to #68867 - alimais (09/03/2014) [-]
>aided by an injection of Russian infantrymen, tanks and artillery I wouldn't doubt it and try to find evidence myself but I haven't really found any nor on /pol/, liveleak or anywhere else
There are hundred of independent investigators and journalists and non have found Russian stuff. Even CNN is there and tried to find stuff but they couldn't and the only source to that statement is Poroschenko
#68883 to #68882 - anonymous (09/03/2014) [-]
Nevermind this stuff.

It was bad attempt at annoying some folk, sorry.
#68886 to #68883 - youregaylol (09/03/2014) [-]
worst troll 2014
#68889 to #68886 - anonymous (09/03/2014) [-]
At least it's something.
#68871 to #68867 - byposted (09/03/2014) [-]
Do I really have to choose between "warlord" and "clown?" Could it be possible that the Russian president is as any other statesman - a strategist who, in desire for peace, recognizes his boundaries?

The cumulative effects of these economic sanctions are certainly nothing comparable to the hardship Russians experienced in the last decade of the twentieth century. They are feeble, harming other European economies, and a cowardly form of warfare. Whatever happened to the liberal policy of non-recognition?
User avatar #68864 - ribocoon (09/02/2014) [-]
This little kid says sandy hook was FAKE!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=enUw-OqfghA
Proof Obama is a Muslim communist out to destroy America with Gay marriage!
#68865 to #68864 - anonymous (09/02/2014) [-]
" Comments are disabled for this video."

so a bunch of kids just disappeared off the face of the earth on that day?

also, he's like seven years old, he more that likely not going know how to describe a shooting in the correct terms. he's not a good source to go off of.
User avatar #68866 to #68865 - ribocoon (09/03/2014) [-]
Obama kidnapped them to indoctrinate them into being gay. Because gays can't reproduce on their own. This is normally where all our missing children go. They're pushing their limits by taking them from our very schools! This is why we need Christ in schools again!
#68869 to #68866 - anonymous (09/03/2014) [-]
oh dear, I'm sorry to hear about the "accident" that you're going to have.
User avatar #68870 to #68869 - ribocoon (09/03/2014) [-]
Allah Snackbar!
#68887 to #68870 - youregaylol (09/03/2014) [-]
It's Aloha Snackbar you fucking pleb.
#68888 to #68887 - ribocoon (09/03/2014) [-]
i'll just to kill myself know
while detonating a bomb against the filthy JIDF
#68857 - youregaylol (09/02/2014) [-]
Female Soldier Challenges Male Infantry Marine To A Boxing Match In Iraq! "Women are just as tough as men, there's no reason why females shouldn't be allowed in combat roles. WE ARE ALL THE SAME."
#68885 to #68857 - dehumanizer ONLINE (09/03/2014) [-]
>allow women in combat roles
>more women get killed
>somehow that is a bad thing

really guys?
User avatar #68860 to #68857 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/02/2014) [-]
In general, women aren't as suited as men for this, I don't think anyone denies it. But honestly, don't you think she'd still kick your ass?
#68861 to #68860 - youregaylol (09/02/2014) [-]
Considering I was an HM in the Navy, no.

But even if I wasn't I'd still say that most normal men could beat her, military or no.
User avatar #68862 to #68861 - jewishcommunazi ONLINE (09/02/2014) [-]
I just took the risk and hoped you were a more "typical" FJ user like me. But she still looks kind of bulky to me.
User avatar #68868 to #68862 - akkere (09/03/2014) [-]
The biggest problem is she lacks any sort of discipline or form in any of her swipes against the guy. I mean, just look at how she tries to punch the other marine, she's constantly tossing one foot up as if that's somehow going to put enough force, and doesn't realize she's making herself wide open for all kinds of counters to throw her off. It's as if she knows she's bulky, so she's going to try to use her weight to focus her blows, which is dangerously wrong.
Honestly, I think any "typical" FJ user could probably beat her if they had any two brain cells that knew the very basics of combat and openings. I'd be more concern about the fact that any kind of member of the military displays such poor understanding of hand-to-hand combat, even in something as flair-y as boxing.
User avatar #68896 to #68868 - schnizel (09/03/2014) [-]
Still a loser.
#68863 to #68862 - youregaylol (09/02/2014) [-]
That's just fat. She was in the army after all.
#68859 to #68857 - youregaylol (09/02/2014) [-]
At 3:25 the marine tries to touch gloves out of respect like he would for any man, but the female "soldier" just turns her head and mopes like a baby.

Girl power doesn't go beyond MLP.
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User avatar #68849 - feelythefeel (09/02/2014) [-]
Who hacked and posted celebs nude pics? Host: "Who is this 4chan?"
#68853 to #68849 - anonymous (09/02/2014) [-]
while I feel sorry for JLaw this news coverage is pretty funny.
while I feel sorry for JLaw this news coverage is pretty funny.
#68855 to #68853 - byposted (09/02/2014) [-]
>feeling sorry for some dried up hollywood whore
#68856 to #68855 - anonymous (09/02/2014) [-]
that's completely false.


I don't own a hat.
User avatar #68847 - feelythefeel (09/02/2014) [-]
>remember Canada's land in Vimy Ridge
>swell with Canadian empire pride
User avatar #68843 - teoanon ONLINE (09/02/2014) [-]
For my American National Government class I have to do a 1000 word paper choosing Republican or Democrat, in no point in my life have I truly cared about politics and i'm at a a loss as to how i'm going to be able to churn out a 5 page paper on a topic i care little about.
User avatar #68850 to #68843 - akkere (09/02/2014) [-]
They're forcing you to choose between two parties and only those two parties? No alternatives, even if they do exist within the United States?
User avatar #68851 to #68850 - teoanon ONLINE (09/02/2014) [-]
It's for the sake of this essay only, this from the instructions.
"For academic purposes (we live in Florida which is a closed primary state requiring you to be either a Republican or a Democrat to participate in Presidential Primaries), you are required to choose a political party."
User avatar #68852 to #68851 - akkere (09/02/2014) [-]
Still, unusual they won't let you go outside the two parties to explore more aspects for the essay.

www.diffen.com/difference/Democrat_vs_Republican

Gives you the gist of the two parties.
You'll probably want to look up key figures of both parties that are likely to enter the incoming election.
Republicans: Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and Marc Rubio
Bonus Ponts for: Jeb Bush, as he was the Republican Governor for Florida and supposedly is going for the 2016 Presidential Election.
Democrats; Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden
Bonus Points for: Charlie Crist, as he was an Republican-turned-Democrat who became governor for Florida as well and I believe he's going to run again.

You could probably just look up between Charlie and Jeb and that'd give you the credit enough for not only effectively comparing between two figures but also relating it to Florida figures and not just aiming for whoever was going for Presidential.
You might be able to get away with just listing policies and platforms, but citing different acts of legislatures and why you disagree with some might be even better. Hope that helps.
User avatar #68846 to #68843 - pebar (09/02/2014) [-]
Power of the Market - The Pencil First, watch this brief video.
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