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Latest users (2): feelythefeel, pebar, anonymous(13).
What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#69070 - youregaylol (09/09/2014) [-]
can't simmer the zimmer A moment to remember the victories of the past in the hope they may solidify our resolve and give us hope for future conquests. An in depth and thorough look into the George Zimmerman case.
#69068 - anonymous (09/08/2014) [-]
It's Happening
#69053 - pebar ONLINE (09/08/2014) [-]
Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND), one of our senators in Washington, is coming to speak at the meeting of the college democrats.   
   
I might go just to see what they have to say.
Heidi Heitkamp (D-ND), one of our senators in Washington, is coming to speak at the meeting of the college democrats.

I might go just to see what they have to say.
User avatar #69059 to #69053 - princessren (09/08/2014) [-]
Pebar confirmed for North Dakotan
User avatar #69061 to #69059 - pebar ONLINE (09/08/2014) [-]
[swells with high employment rates]
User avatar #69062 to #69061 - princessren (09/08/2014) [-]
you should see a doctor about that swelling
#69058 to #69053 - youregaylol (09/08/2014) [-]
Wear a ron paul Armageddon shirt under some sloppy BDU, a boonie hat, pitch black sunglasses, and an AR-15 around your chest while you hold up a sign that says it's happening.If you can provide photographic proof I promise you that I'll mail a 500 dollar check to whatever address you give me.
User avatar #69055 to #69053 - schnizel (09/08/2014) [-]
Have fun.
User avatar #69044 - cognosceteipsum (09/08/2014) [-]
What do you think of prison conversions to Islam?
User avatar #69056 to #69054 - cognosceteipsum (09/08/2014) [-]
That's right my boy. Muslims convert desperate convicts to join their ranks and subsequently go to Somali to fight jihad. American black convicts mostly.
User avatar #69057 to #69056 - schnizel (09/08/2014) [-]
shiet
#69042 - youregaylol (09/08/2014) [-]
Probably the worst music video ever. Oh Japan, what have we turned you into. You used to be a strong, brave, honorable warrior race with a vast empire and a strong moral code. Now your youth are degenerate sex fiends who create perverse pornography for fat lonely western males while your own males are regarded as disgusting by your females who only fuck them because they're all becoming sluts.

Shiiiiiiiiit.
#69043 to #69042 - anonymous (09/08/2014) [-]
There are more adult diapers sold then baby diapers :/
User avatar #69022 - schnizel (09/07/2014) [-]
Who are the most fanatical warriors of all time?
User avatar #69096 to #69022 - beatmasterz (09/09/2014) [-]
I'd say either mongolians or the spartans. But I'm not a historian so what do I know.
User avatar #69069 to #69022 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/09/2014) [-]
Hard to say. There've been a lot of fanatical warriors in history.
User avatar #69052 to #69022 - ablueguy (09/08/2014) [-]
I'd have to agree with saying that theological warriors being the most fanatical. Crusaders, the islamic Jihadists, probably the vikings too.
But, if you're saying most dedicated to violence/terror etc, then definitely the Mongols.
#69033 to #69022 - youregaylol (09/07/2014) [-]
Fanatical like dedicated to a cause?

I would have to say any theological warriors, if you convince a man he's killing for god he loses all restraint, as well as common sense.
User avatar #69035 to #69033 - schnizel (09/07/2014) [-]
True.
User avatar #69029 to #69022 - tredbear (09/07/2014) [-]
I have to agree on the Japanese, or the Mongols.
User avatar #69030 to #69029 - schnizel (09/07/2014) [-]
Warum?
User avatar #69036 to #69030 - tredbear (09/07/2014) [-]
the Japanese were fierce worriers, they were very loyal to their nation and emperor, they have a very rich history. Adolf Hitler said that the Japanese had a much richer history than the Germans. The Japanese would often fight to the death, and managed to repel several Mongol invasions during the Mongol reign on Asia.

I also say the Mongols because they too obeyed their leader and fought to the death. They managed to conquer almost all of Asia, and so fourth. Just of the presence of the Mongol army in the region installed a fear factor in the enemy.
User avatar #69037 to #69036 - schnizel (09/07/2014) [-]
Well, the Japs won because of the Mongol ships were sunk, by a storm.
And yeah Mongorians were pretty good.
User avatar #69097 to #69037 - beatmasterz (09/09/2014) [-]
Mongolians used to send civilian hostages in the front of their horde when they ambushed a village. That way all the arrows and spears were caught by the hostages and not the soldiers. Fuckin' brutal.
User avatar #69102 to #69097 - schnizel (09/10/2014) [-]
Damn.
User avatar #69024 to #69022 - pebar ONLINE (09/07/2014) [-]
The Japanese.
User avatar #69025 to #69024 - schnizel (09/07/2014) [-]
>not based Illyrians
Why?
User avatar #69015 - tredbear (09/07/2014) [-]
Aftermath of Ambush on Ukrainian Forces: Russian Roulette (Dispatch 75)

at one point of the video, the journalist says that they Novorossiya soldiers tell them to stop filming, and they said during the time they weren't allowed to film, they saw masked soldiers carrying some sophisticated gear.

This may or may not be evidence that Russia is operating in Ukraine, but this is yet to be confirmed.
#69023 to #69015 - levvy (09/07/2014) [-]
We have seen evidence of American/EU gear in Ukraine, half the militant's there are running around wearing Multicam and eating MRE's.

The issued Ukrainian uniform is TTsKO not Multicam.

Some Ukrainian brigade's defected to the DPR as-well, so that could be the "sophisticated gear" they saw.

Vice covered all of this, I would recommend watching the whole "Russian Roulette" series, even if it is very Pro-Ukraine.
User avatar #69072 to #69023 - oxan (09/09/2014) [-]
The United States has long said they'll be providing non-lethal military aid to Ukraine, i.e. MREs. This isn't a shocking revelation.
User avatar #69041 to #69023 - alimais (09/07/2014) [-]
I like the comment section of the Vice videos,

people fighting over who's propaganda is better and who's brainwashed.
User avatar #69026 to #69023 - tredbear (09/07/2014) [-]
I have, and what I saw in the series is the Ukraine government betraying it's own people.
#69027 to #69026 - levvy (09/07/2014) [-]
They will come crawling back to Russia.

Putin's face says it all.
#69039 to #69027 - alimais (09/07/2014) [-]
Sometimes I really don't know if he's a gambler or a puppet player but damn Putin has some experience and inside knowledge how politics work.
Sometimes I really don't know if he's a gambler or a puppet player but damn Putin has some experience and inside knowledge how politics work.
User avatar #69040 to #69039 - alimais (09/07/2014) [-]
Benefits from being ex-KGB and what not
User avatar #69028 to #69027 - tredbear (09/07/2014) [-]
If the Rebels manage to capture mariupol, which seems likely, their supply lines would expand drastically, and there offensive should pick up even more pace.
User avatar #69019 to #69015 - maddboiy (09/07/2014) [-]
The part where they show the ambush site was fucking grim, not many other news sources would show stuff like that but then there's Vice who don't give a fuck. Thats why i like them.
User avatar #69020 to #69019 - alimais (09/07/2014) [-]
Well, at least those didn't had any visible maggots on them. I've seen enough footage from that region

And the corpses of shelled civilians there look 10 times more gory than just "black burned chunks" of people.

That dude has a nice channel

www.youtube.com/user/FallenUSSoldiers/videos
#69017 to #69015 - alimais (09/07/2014) [-]
There are hundreds of independent investigators and journalists there who haven't found anything yet ,

I'd wouldn't doubt it if there was any clear evidence but I can't find any even if I try to look for because it's either fishy or former Ukrainian equipment.

Vice got nicer than it was at the start.
User avatar #69006 - oxan (09/06/2014) [-]
i'm really drunk and everythign on this board is just wat
User avatar #69008 to #69006 - jewishcommunazi (09/06/2014) [-]
You seem to get drunk often.
#69000 - youregaylol (09/05/2014) [-]
" That is what the Qu'ran teaches, and I think in such empirical terms "-byposted   
   
wtf   
   
i thought that byposted was a white polish christian.   
   
now i find out that hes a muslim.   
   
either hes a filthy arab immigrant soiling europe or hes a white race traitor who supports sharia law in europe.   
   
this is horrible   
   
why have so many muslims infiltrated the far right club   
   
seriously very demoralizing   
   
11/10 throwing up   
   
worse than holocaust/6 million
" That is what the Qu'ran teaches, and I think in such empirical terms "-byposted

wtf

i thought that byposted was a white polish christian.

now i find out that hes a muslim.

either hes a filthy arab immigrant soiling europe or hes a white race traitor who supports sharia law in europe.

this is horrible

why have so many muslims infiltrated the far right club

seriously very demoralizing

11/10 throwing up

worse than holocaust/6 million
#69031 to #69000 - anonymous (09/07/2014) [-]
I'm pretty sure even Hitler spoke more highly of Islam than he did Christianity.

Though I think he was particularly fond of Shintoism.
#69032 to #69031 - youregaylol (09/07/2014) [-]
I'm not a Hitler fanboy, he can be wrong.

Lets also note that hitler didn't live to see Islams invasion of the white world.
User avatar #69007 to #69000 - alimais (09/06/2014) [-]
Look up what's haram

answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080406003053AAVndtq

Not all Muslims are bad but the Wahhabi or fundamentalist Muslims are bad.

#69034 to #69007 - youregaylol (09/07/2014) [-]
Islam is bad for europe and any other white western country.

Let it stay where it belongs and I wouldn't have a problem with it.
User avatar #69038 to #69034 - alimais (09/07/2014) [-]
I don't want any more diversity either but the Islam that is the cancer has its Wahhabi roots.

I would rather have it normal Islam not in Europe too and stronger European cultures.
User avatar #69004 to #69000 - oxan (09/06/2014) [-]
lol
User avatar #69045 to #69004 - schnizel (09/08/2014) [-]
can y send me the links where it said that staljin tried to quite 3 times
User avatar #69002 to #69000 - schnizel (09/06/2014) [-]
He's aight
#68984 - anonymous (09/05/2014) [-]
Look at these dumbasses. They get paid too much as it is, why do these lazy sacks of nothing think they need $15 an hour for one of the easiest jobs in the world? $3 is too much for them.

Life hack: if you want to make more money, find another job that pays more. If you can't, shut up and do your job with a smile, faggot.
User avatar #69009 to #68984 - brendantheferret ONLINE (09/06/2014) [-]
Niggers
User avatar #69005 to #68984 - oxan (09/06/2014) [-]
get fucked you trolling anon faggot

6% unemployment means I'm lucky to even have a job.
#69003 to #68984 - dehumanizer (09/06/2014) [-]
If all of the protesters are niggers does that mean that niggers have job? Yeah nice try photoshop
User avatar #69014 to #69003 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/07/2014) [-]
Because 1890 was such an amazing time. Dying of disease and getting lynched for stuff even you'd agree is stupid was just so fabulous.
#69016 to #69014 - dehumanizer (09/07/2014) [-]
>muh death

hedonist pls
#68986 to #68984 - youregaylol (09/05/2014) [-]
Imagine if our ancestors picked their own cotton or if the spanish had been as efficient as us in genocide. Oh what a magical world that would be.
#68982 - pebar ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Gonna meet my state's house representative in about a half hour.   
   
This may be interesting.
Gonna meet my state's house representative in about a half hour.

This may be interesting.
User avatar #69060 to #68982 - princessren (09/08/2014) [-]
why you meetin them
User avatar #69063 to #69060 - pebar ONLINE (09/08/2014) [-]
fun
also it's a meeting of college republicans
User avatar #69065 to #69063 - princessren (09/08/2014) [-]
or how it went..I am assuming you have already been looking at the time
User avatar #69066 to #69065 - pebar ONLINE (09/08/2014) [-]
It was fine; he seems nice. But he really doesn't like Obama. He talked for maybe one and a half hours and it was kind of propaganda-y.
User avatar #69067 to #69066 - princessren (09/08/2014) [-]
I remember in like...2011 or something, my town had a thing for 9/11 because someone from here died
and like our senator came and I mean...he did talk about like 9/11 and the victim and all that junk, but at one point he was sort of talking about himself and it rubbed me the wrong way...like don't be campaigning here man
User avatar #69064 to #69063 - princessren (09/08/2014) [-]
let me know how that goes
User avatar #68995 to #68982 - ribocoon (09/05/2014) [-]
who?
User avatar #68996 to #68995 - pebar ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
Kevin Cramer (R-ND)
User avatar #68997 to #68996 - ribocoon (09/05/2014) [-]
I know where you live
Now I can fuck your ear while you sleep
gg
#68998 to #68997 - pebar ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
Comment Picture
#68983 to #68982 - youregaylol (09/05/2014) [-]
Tell him about the Fourth Reich pls.
User avatar #68961 - ribocoon (09/04/2014) [-]
muh rich and diverse culture
You need to login to view this link
#68977 to #68961 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
CALL AN AMBULAN-
#68938 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
So some "urban youths" start fighting each other in canada, guess they're not as nice as everyone says. The aggressor is clearly shown beating on another niglet when a cop shows up and blasts him with a taser. Some say he was hit in the face but I can't see.

And the white liberal shitbags who clearly just saw the niglet attacking someone else start whining "ZOMG Y DID U SHOOT HIM U SHOULDA ASKED HIM TO STOP CHIMPING OUT FIRST" or some bullshit.

The cameraman is really annoying, you can almost hear the blonde dreadlocks.
User avatar #68965 to #68938 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
The stereotype is that Canadians are nice, not that we don't have shitty parts of town.
#68968 to #68965 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The nice stereotype is bull.
User avatar #68969 to #68968 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Not from my experience.
#68970 to #68969 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The stereotype of the ignorant violent ghetto nigger is true from my experience as well.
User avatar #68971 to #68970 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Who is that stereotype of?
#68972 to #68971 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
the ignorant violent ghetto nigger
User avatar #68973 to #68972 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
So you're saying niggers are niggers? Sure, just as long as you can admit that there are black people who are normal and not... this.
#68975 to #68973 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
schnizel , ablueguy , dehumanizer , byposted , alimais , which one of you had that pic of the monkey wearing a suit on one side and the monkey going crazy on another side titled "This is a nigga, this is a black man, know the difference."

It's so relevant but I can't remember who posted it.
#68978 to #68975 - byposted (09/04/2014) [-]
I have such a picture in my files, but cannot find it.
#68979 to #68978 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
that'll do

feelythefeel

look at this and laugh

laugh at my masterful debunking of your argument
User avatar #68981 to #68979 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
k
#68980 to #68979 - byposted (09/04/2014) [-]
I found this derivative on the archive.
User avatar #68976 to #68975 - ablueguy (09/04/2014) [-]
Wasn't me.
Monkey With AK-47 Full video
User avatar #68964 to #68938 - ablueguy (09/04/2014) [-]
Hah, figures it happened in Toronto.
That place is like the Malmo of Canada.
#68951 to #68938 - anonymous (09/04/2014) [-]
he had every right to tase that guy. the guy was beating the shit out of the other guy, clearly an enraged person so that means he might swing at the cop. cop tases him and stops it.

I see nothing wrong here.

why the hell were the bystanders so apauled when the cop intervened but they didn't do jack shit when the two guys were fighting?
User avatar #69010 to #68939 - brendantheferret ONLINE (09/06/2014) [-]
Fucking nigger deserved it. I wouldn't put myself in harms way to pull two fucking chimps apart, I would tase the fuckers
User avatar #68966 to #68939 - feelythefeel ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Admittedly, he probably shouldn't have tased him in the face.
#68967 to #68966 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
I didn't even see him get hit in the face with the taser.

Even if he did he it's his own fault for being a mongoloid.
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#68937 - youregaylol has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #68927 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
Military Draft: Good or bad? Moral or immoral? Why and why not?
User avatar #69011 to #68927 - brendantheferret ONLINE (09/06/2014) [-]
I don't believe in the draft system, except in a time of extremely dire need (highly unlikely that we would even need to use it for a long time due to all the inbreds who would sign up for us)
User avatar #68992 to #68927 - alimais (09/05/2014) [-]
It's nice in a neutral country like mine
User avatar #68987 to #68927 - pebar ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
Only in extreme emergency, and by that I mean Red Dawn shit.
Apart from that, a draft is completely incompatible with an active foreign policy like America's.
User avatar #68959 to #68927 - byposted (09/04/2014) [-]
Even in this era of professional armies, military drafts are necessary. The state should retain the power to mobilize the general population, if only to invoke it in times of crisis.

While the system may be abused, and used to subsidize oversea adventures with the lives of young men, this does not speak of the machinery's immorality; rather, it shows how governments may go rouge.

Comparing conscription to slavery is like associating taxation with theft. While, in the literal sense, one does not choose to sign up for the draft, neither does one "opt in" to paying taxes. These are services which are expected of any people. "B...but muh freedumbs" constitutes as much of an argument here as "Social contract? I didn't sign shit lol"

Outside of anarchocap circles, people generally understand that such "force" as the state exhibits in collecting revenue is beneficial to society. The same is true of collecting a list of names and addresses, for potential use under the banner of national defense.
User avatar #68960 to #68959 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
Should the punishment for not wishing to kill people or die be death or imprisonment?
Isn't it fair not to want to kill people? Or to not want to die while trying to kill people ?

I consider conscription as slavery because it places you in a position against your will, where you have to kill people, risk injury or death and if you don't do those two things, you're imprisoned or executed. Your rights are taken from you for an ultimate price. I don't think it's reasonable to force that on anyone under any circumstance.

I think that if the threat is real and about to change their society for the worst, people will come to fight, they don't need to be shoved out the door.

Conscription might be expected, like paying taxes, but I am questioning whether it should be. We can't be too quick to go along with something just because it's tradition.
User avatar #68974 to #68960 - byposted (09/04/2014) [-]
A man, with ample finances, who fails to pay taxes will be punished. A man, with the necessary health and strength, who abandons his nation in its time of need should be punished.

Very few conscripts, historically, have had good morale. The lot of them were herded onto the field, with bayonets at their rears, proving to be unreliable fighters. I am not implying that war is just; killing, while disturbing, is a reality of our world. That is what the Qu'ran teaches, and I think in such empirical terms.

There is more to slavery than a lack of free will. A slave is not only "deprived" of rights, but property, as a member of a distinct class. It is simply incorrect to consider as "slavery" a mere obligation - like an unfortunate might do of his minimum wage job ("wageslavery"), or a medieval peasant may have done of his serfdom.

Volunteers are always coveted during times of war. The problem is that the amount of idealistic, able-bodied men always has a limit. It is for this reason that generals rely on conscripts - they may serve as cannon fodder, while the dedicated cadres live to fight another day.

Asking questions is good. It is due to them that the United States is not likely to pull another Vietnam in the future. But the mistakes of the Vietnam War do not hold weight on the draft system itself - only its implementation.
User avatar #68985 to #68974 - eight (09/05/2014) [-]
" A man, with the necessary health and strength, who abandons his nation in its time of need should be punished. "

I don't agree that the nation needs the man for battle. That could leave him scarred for life if he survives (and often does for those who see combat) or of course could end his life. I think the man should be able to choose when his life will end and where on his own terms (if he doesn't die by accident). I don't think it's abandonment if he's still productive at home and keeping the economy stable while others decide to go to war.

I do agree that the man should pay taxes, that's not asking too much of anyone.

" I am not implying that war is just; killing, while disturbing, is a reality of our world. "

It's a reality that I think all should be able to avoid. Leave it to the people who want to kill or are willing to risk their lives for the betterment of their nation. And make no mistake, there's plenty of those, at least in the U.S.

"There is more to slavery than a lack of free will. A slave is not only "deprived" of rights, but property, as a member of a distinct class. It is simply incorrect to consider as "slavery" a mere obligation - like an unfortunate might do of his minimum wage job ("wageslavery"), or a medieval peasant may have done of his serfdom."

In the military you are also deprived of property or a lot of things. And you are even considered as property, often referred to as being a number. That's pretty close to slavery in my eyes. Too close for my taste especially if you were forced into it.

"Volunteers are always coveted during times of war. "

Well, I might be more open to conscription if the politicians and other rich members of society are right down there with us in the mud, with bullets flying over our heads. That includes the President. No one should be exempt, no matter how much money they have or what position in government they hold. Someone will always exist to take their place, even if it's temporarily.
#68988 to #68985 - temporarily ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
If someone gets to screw the people it may as well be me.
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#68956 to #68927 - byposted has deleted their comment [-]
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#68958 to #68956 - eight has deleted their comment [-]
#68931 to #68927 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
Moral, nobody should be allowed to benefit from their nation without assisting those who are fighting and dying for it.

Practical or efficient? Not in this century unless everybody got rid of their nukes and regional powers started fighting. Even then tech and training beats numbers anyday, which is why the US is the sole super power and china isn't.
User avatar #68933 to #68931 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
If they are being forced to do something against their will, then they aren't benefiting from anything.

And even before that point, it relies on what you personally call benefit and it's value. Some people might feel that risking life and taking it from others is not worth the "benefit" the nation is offering.

And is military draft any different from slavery?
#68935 to #68933 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
It's a very simple concept, a nation provides you security and the freedom to live your life and allows you to benefit from the national success. In fact in many nations the government will subsidize your lifestyle so you don't have to work at all or very little. Every citizen benefits from it so every citizen should be required to contribute, it follows the same logic as taxes. Should some not be required to pay taxes while still benefiting from the public works projects? No.

If they feel that the nation is not worth it then they should be deported, if they choose to live in a country they must be fight when it's threatened, once again a simple concept.

And slavery isn't mutually beneficial, you have one party that is exploiting the other party. A draft is community defense. Only cowards refuse to defend their community when it's threatened but enjoy it when it is at peace.
User avatar #68940 to #68935 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"It's a very simple concept, a nation provides you security and the freedom to live your life and allows you to benefit from the national success."

Freedom is not something that is given to you. It's yours to begin with. Your life, your choices. It's not something to be bargained with. It's not something to be taken away.

Security is not a good enough reason to warrant blood stained hands or a premature death in my opinion. Besides, there are many people perfectly willing to take on that job themselves. I'll do my part by being the average productive member of society.

" In fact in many nations the government will subsidize your lifestyle so you don't have to work at all or very little....e same logic as taxes. Should some not be required to pay taxes while still benefiting from the public works projects? No. "

The benefit is not valuable enough for me to risk my life or to kill others. It's worth paying taxes for, but not for killing or risking my life.

"If they feel that the nation is not worth it then they should be deported, if they choose to live in a country they must be fight when it's threatened, once again a simple concept. "

Why go to deportation? That removes a productive member of society and it demonstrates the U.S isn't interested in actual freedom, but only the illusion of it. What you consider important, others may not.

"And slavery isn't mutually beneficial, you have one party that is exploiting the other party. A draft is community defense. Only cowards refuse to defend their community when it's threatened but enjoy it when it is at peace. "

That assumes your community is actually being threatened. It might just be the governments interests being threatened, the governments interests aren't necessarily representative of a communities interests. You can call them cowards, but really what you're saying is that you're pissed that you decided to do something they don't want to and you think it's unfair that they aren't made to do it.
#68941 to #68940 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
Right, the average north korean is born free and nobody has ever died to protect the freedoms of their countrymen. You don't have to be thankful fro anything, you did all on your own because you were born free. Here's a news flash for you, freedom can be taken away. It's happened throughout history, it's happening today and it will continue to happen. Men with guns force others to conform to their collective will and you can say that you're free all you want but the only way you're going to be truly free is for some other men with guns to fight for your freedom.

Why do you think people immigrate to first world countries? Because we provide security and walls, and the dead soldiers provided you with your opportunities and freedoms. You didn't have jack shit to do with it.

I already acknowledged that a draft isn't needed in our current world, that isn't the argument. We're talking about if it's moral. The "average member of society" doesn't mean shit if the entire nation is being threatened. If the nation falls you fall too.

Why are you talking about the U.S.? This is about the draft in general. If the nation is about to be destroyed (this would be the requirement for a draft) and you refuse to help then why bother keeping you here? You aren't helping the cause in a trying time. you aren't my countryman, you can gtfo of my country while braver men fight for their homes.

The nation is a system of communities, a draft would only be utilized if the community was threatened. If you don't like your government you can vote them out if you'd like, but if things don't go your way you can't just decide that you're not going to contribute anymore. I'm pissed off about my countries foreign aid, but that doesn't give me the right to not pay taxes.

By participating in a nation you benefit from the sacrifices of others, if you don't want to help when others need you then you aren't worthy of enjoying the benefits the dead provide. We don't want cowards.
User avatar #68943 to #68941 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"Why are you talking about the U.S.? This is about the draft in general. If the nation is about to be destroyed (this would be the requirement for a draft) and you refuse to help then why bother keeping you here? You aren't helping the cause in a trying time. you aren't my countryman, you can gtfo of my country while braver men fight for their homes. "

I live in the U.S. It's specifically relevant to me, a nation that has forced the draft onto others in the past and not for the destruction of the nation.

Even if the nation is about to be destroyed, I think it should still be up to the individuals to fight or not. That's what freedom is all about. It would probably be a good idea to fight if you're about to be destroyed, but there are many people who would not be good at combat and shouldn't be placed in that position. You're not helping the moral system by supporting a system which takes away freedom.

"The nation is a system of communities, a draft would only be utilized if the community was threatened. If you don't like your government you can vote them out if you'd like, but if things don't go your way you can't just decide that you're not going to contribute anymore. I'm pissed off about my countries foreign aid, but that doesn't give me the right to not pay taxes. "

That's what freedom is. Not being subjected to the will of others, but instead making decisions based on your own. We should be able to honor each others choices, even if we don't agree with them. Your taxes are not causing you to murder others or to risk your life, it's a bit more serious of a situation with a draft. It deals literally with life and death.

"By participating in a nation you benefit from the sacrifices of others, if you don't want to help when others need you then you aren't worthy of enjoying the benefits the dead provide. We don't want cowards. "

It was there choice to sacrifice themselves. They understood what they were doing and they were happy to do it. I appreciate that.
#68945 to #68943 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The influence of the US abroad benefits the average citizen. As I said, you don't get to decide if you want to contribute or not if you're benefiting from the country.

Either we all fight as one or we all die resisting those who would harm us. Living as slaves is not an option and there are things worse than death, not resisting invaders makes you a traitor and you shouldn't be allowed to live in your country.

Paying foreign aid will empower those who I believe will lead the world into a bad place, but I still pay them. That's dealing with a nuclear holocaust but I don't decide what I can do. You are being subjected to force when you pay taxes, but it is still necessary for the structure of the nation.

Nobody cares if you appreciate it if people are dying while you sit on your butt. Everyone pitches in if they're needed, no exceptions. Either answer the call to arms or get out, it's fair.
User avatar #68948 to #68945 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"The influence of the US abroad benefits the average citizen. As I said, you don't get to decide if you want to contribute or not if you're benefiting from the country."

Then you're not truly free and you're not actually fighting for freedom. If you're not fighting for freedom, what are you fighting for?

"Either we all fight as one or we all die resisting those who would harm us. Living as slaves is not an option and there are things worse than death, not resisting invaders makes you a traitor and you shouldn't be allowed to live in your country. "

The U.S fought and won the Revolutionary war with voluntary militias against a conscription service that was the British. Apparently, your black and white reasoning is not always true. You'd still be a slave if forced into the military, just one with different end goals.

"Paying foreign aid will empower those who I believe will lead the world into a bad place, but I still pay them. That's dealing with a nuclear holocaust but I don't decide what I can do. You are being subjected to force when you pay taxes, but it is still necessary for the structure of the nation."

You're already paying foreign aid, the best you can do is protest it. We're not currently in a draft, we can try to settle the issue before it begins again.

"Nobody cares if you appreciate it if people are dying while you sit on your butt. Everyone pitches in if they're needed, no exceptions. Either answer the call to arms or get out, it's fair. "

I'm not sitting on my butt, I'm choosing not to kill someone or die. That's a just reason not to participate in a situation that is not threatening my life or family.









#68950 to #68948 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The freedom to benefit and not contribute is not a freedom. Point to where I said that every war required conscription. By that logic you're a slave because you have to pay taxes, if we're equating being forced to do something to slavery. I don't see your point on the foreign aid part. You can fluff it up to make it seem like whatever you want, but in the end you're still not doing anything while others die on your behalf.
User avatar #68952 to #68950 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
You are contributing. You're just not fighting. Not everything revolves around murder and death. We are fully capable of winning wars without every last available man. Where did I say that you claimed every war required conscription? We are slaves in that respect and I don't like it either, but what can we do to stop it? I don't to kill or die trying to stop taxes, that would be a gross over-reaction anyway.

You can't say that someone isn't doing anything just because they're not doing what you'd do. Well you can say that, you have that right, but I think you'd be dishonest and distasteful to say that.
#68954 to #68952 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
In the scenario we're talking about it's been decided that they need you to fight, the draft takes what it needs, nothing more.

"The U.S fought and won the Revolutionary war with voluntary militias against a conscription service that was the British. Apparently, your black and white reasoning is not always true"

You implied that my position was that every war for freedom requires conscription, and tried to use the revolutionary war as an example, which is pretty strange in and of itself because we did use conscription to an extent during those colonial times.

Really? So you honestly believe that taxation=slavery? Why are we even talking.

And again in this scenario the we're talking about people who are needed to fight and don't, I never said that every single person has to be conscripted, only that those who are chosen must serve.
User avatar #68957 to #68954 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
They've decided we needed to fight before, but they really didn't need us.

"You implied that my position was that every war for freedom requires conscription, and tried to use the revolutionary war as an example, which is pretty strange in and of itself because we did use conscription to an extent during those colonial times. "

Who determines which wars need conscription and which don't? And how do they know? My example pointed out that in the Revolution, we needed conscription, but we held to our desire for freedom and kept a voluntary service. We still won despite being vastly outnumbered by a conscripted service.

"Really? So you honestly believe that taxation=slavery? Why are we even talking."

It's not unlike slavery. You're forced to do something without choice and punished severely if you disobey.

"And again in this scenario the we're talking about people who are needed to fight and don't, I never said that every single person has to be conscripted, only that those who are chosen must serve. "

I've answered this in this comment already. See Revolution.
User avatar #68942 to #68941 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"Right, the average north korean is born free and nobody has ever died to protect the freedoms of their countrymen. "

North Koreans are subjected to what I would call an immoral government. If they want to get out of that situation, they should fight for it.
Of course people die to protect their countrymen.

"You don't have to be thankful fro anything, you did all on your own because you were born free. Here's a news flash for you, freedom can be taken away"

I'm thankful. Yes, I was born free, as were you. It can't be taken away, unless there is a way to control your thinking process. But I think I get what you mean. Yes, it can be partially taken away as your options are limited. The question is if it's the moral thing to do?

". It's happened throughout history, it's happening today and it will ...but the only way you're going to be truly free is for some other men with guns to fight for your freedom. "

Of course it's happened. The key is to overcome it. Let the people who want to do the fighting, do the fighting, especially if it's not even on our soil or near our families and homes. I'm pro-choice on this matter.

"Why do you think people immigrate to first world countries?.. You didn't have jack shit to do with it. "

I'm not pretending that I did. Nobody should be forced to kill or to risk their lives. All I'm saying.

"I already acknowledged that a draft isn't needed..mean shit if the entire nation is being threatened. If the nation falls you fall too. "

Actually, no. That's an assumption. If the government falls, someone else takes charge. That doesn't mean you die, or that everything changes. It might just mean new leadership. The draft could start again one day, war will always exist, that's why it's important to try and resolve the matter now, before we're placed in that position again.
#68944 to #68942 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
And what if some North Koreans think like you and decide that fighting for their community isn't worth it, would it be immoral to draft them into a resistance movement? And if the government is toppled, should they be able to enjoy the freedoms others have died for? And what if the previous government tried to reinstall itself, should some citizens be exempt from fighting for their nation because they're scared? Is it moral that they should benefit from a free korea even though they refuse to assist their fellow man?

You cannot be free if you're under the threat of force. There is no way to overcome people forcing others into submission besides fighting. You're not going to stop a bullet with good feelings or pacifism. Fighting on foreign soil means that you're making sure that you don't have to fight on your soil. In today's world we are all connected, it's not as simple as only fighting if the enemy is on your doorstep, at that point it's gone to far, civilians are going to die en mass, and it might be too late to stop them.

Being pro choice isn't an option when you're receiving benefits. If that is your belief then it's best that you leave during war time and don't return. Of course nobody should be forced to risk their lives, nobody should have to suffer or die either but life doesn't work like that.

If you're willing to see the destruction of your country instead of fighting for it you've really just proved my point, it's all cowardice. What if the new government was north korea for example? You'd be okay with living in a totalitarian shithole because you're scared of dying? What life is that? That shows me that you don't care about freedom, you just care about saving yourself, which means that you don't care about your country. Therefor you should be deported if war time comes.

“Cowardice rightly understood begins with selfishness and ends with shame.”
― José Rizal
User avatar #68946 to #68944 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"And what if some North Koreans think like you and decide that fighting for their community isn't worth it, would it be immoral to draft them into a resistance movement?"

They don't have much of a community, it's definitely not worth fighting for. If I were North Korean, I'd probably just want blood more than anything. I would make it my goal to topple that government just to take out another evil from the world. In my opinion, it would be immoral to draft people into a resistance, but not to start one or to ask and plead for volunteers. But I bet if a resistance started, people would join, many of them, of their own will. I'd much rather have a person who wants to fight than a person that doesn't at my back helping the cause

"And if the government is toppled, should they be able to enjoy the freedoms others have died for? "

Yes, because others made that choice of their own will, knowing full well that they might not make it through. But they personally thought it would be worth it, that's what matters.

"And what if the previous government tried to reinstall itself, should some citizens be exempt from fighting for their nation because they're scared?"

They should be exempt from fighting if they don't want to. There will always be people that do want to, for many different reasons.

"You cannot be free if you're under the threat of force. There is no way to overcome people forcing others into submission besides fighting. "

It won't necessarily take every single person to stop a threat. Leave it to the people that want to.
Civilians will die wherever there is fighting. I won't personally be spurred to fight until it's on my doorstep. Some may not ever be spurred to fight. Some want to fight before there is even an enemy to fight.

The benefits that I receive are not worth risking my life or killing others over.

No one should have to risk their life if they don't want to. Nor should they be made killers. This is why drafts are immoral in my opinion.
#68947 to #68946 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
The tolerance of cowardice is the first step to oppression. It's a travesty to think that there are some people out there who are content to do nothing while people die on their behalf. I will never recognize the "freedom" to live as a parasite and wait for the real freedoms to be taken away.
User avatar #68949 to #68947 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"The tolerance of cowardice is the first step to oppression."

Can you demonstrate that it's cowardice? And even if you could demonstrate that it's cowardice, can you demonstrate that it is unacceptable or unreasonable of an action?

"It's a travesty to think that there are some people out there who are content to do nothing while people die on their behalf. "

They aren't doing "nothing", they are still doing something, they just aren't fighting. Its a travesty that you think everyone should be forced into slavery so they can murder others and possibly die for a cause they may not believe in or may not feel is important. You're reasoning is far too totalitarian for my taste.

"I will never recognize the "freedom" to live as a parasite and wait for the real freedoms to be taken away. "

It's not good to be parasitic, but that doesn't require everyone to do the same thing either. Let the people that want to go to war go to war. Let those who aren't capable or aren't brave or find other matters more important to decide for themselves. I think a society that incorporates real freedom is going to be far stronger than one that doesn't.

#68953 to #68949 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
You've already stated that you don't want to fight because you're scared of dying and you stated that it wouldn't be that bad if your country got conquered by new leaders, and you've stated that you're fine with others dying for you while you do nothing. I consider that cowardice and it's unacceptable because cowardice dooms nations.

Your definition of slavery is ridiculous, are you enslaved because you have to obey traffic laws? Seriously, it's bullshit.

And this whole scenario is based on the idea that a draft is called which means that they need you, sure other people who weren't chosen can still be factory workers and we need them, but in that scenario the government also needs fighters. They don't need you as a worker. Believing in a cause is not required, you don't get to choose everything that goes on in the world, just like I don't get to choose to fund Israel. The nation has decided thats what it needs, so thats what we have to do. In return we get to live comfortably.

Real freedom isn't benefiting from others sacrifices while you stay at home when you're needed, thats bullshit.

User avatar #68955 to #68953 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
"ou've already stated that you don't want to fight because you're scared of dying you stated that it wouldn't be that bad if your country got conquered by new leaders, you've stated that you're fine with others dying for you while you do nothing"

Unless someones was a direct threat to me or my family. But that's pretty rare.
It might not be. I pointed out that you assumed it would be bad as support for your argument to have a draft.

It's their choice. If they think it's a worthy cause then who am I to tell them they're wrong? Assuming there isn't a draft, they wouldn't be forced into fighting, if they chose to fight they did it for their own reasons. That's admirable.

" consider that cowardice and it's unacceptable because cowardice dooms nations."

That's fine. I don't consider it cowardice.

"Your definition of slavery is ridiculous, are you enslaved because you have to obey traffic laws? Seriously, it's bullshit."

Depends on how I weigh the consequences of those traffic laws in respect to the violation. But in general, you're not imprisoned for life or executed for violating a traffic law. I suppose you're not for taxes either, but you will be severely punished for not paying taxes, some might argue those punishments are gross overreactions.

"And this whole scenario...government also needs fighters. "

It's demonstrable in this nations history that they've called drafts when they didn't need us(Vietnam). Or they didn't call a draft, but did need us (Revolutionary War). In both examples, the opposite of what was expected occurred. We lost Vietnam and we won against the British (who were conscripted by the way).

"They don't need ...we get to live comfortably. "

It's not what I chose and apparently there is a huge opposition to the draft in this country. Maybe we can change the law. Besides, choosing to do something for the right reasons is far better than being forced into it.

Real freedom is making your own choices, not being forced into any of them.
User avatar #68928 to #68927 - jewishcommunazi (09/04/2014) [-]
Immoral. Good or bad depends on the specific conditions. It should be applied when a nation's integrity is being threatened enough.
User avatar #68929 to #68928 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
What if an individual has no interest in killing, even for his or her own safety?
User avatar #68930 to #68929 - jewishcommunazi (09/04/2014) [-]
I guess his best chance would be desertion.
User avatar #68932 to #68930 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
But is it ethical to force someone into the military. The entire idea is to fight for your right to be free. But how can you do that when you're not free yourself, but enslaved by the military at threat of incarceration or execution?
User avatar #68934 to #68932 - jewishcommunazi (09/04/2014) [-]
You're not free during that time so that in the future others (and possibly you) can be. It might not be ethical, but it can be necessary.
User avatar #68936 to #68934 - eight (09/04/2014) [-]
Isn't that a slipper slope? It's not guaranteed that without draftees, you'll lose the war. And even if you do lose, it's not guaranteed that the entire system will change or that you'll lose your freedom.

It seems that the draft is more or less to protect the governing body, rather than the people of the nation and they achieve this by forcing the people, the ones who actually make the country what it is, to risk life and limb and to become murderers in the process.

There is only 1 situation in which I'd be willing to murder or risk my life.

1. We're being exterminated, in which case it's absolutely necessary to fight, otherwise you likely will die or live in camps for the rest of your life.

Any other time, it should be a choice. I might also be more accepting of a draft if government officials were also drafted right along with us.

User avatar #68916 - tredbear (09/04/2014) [-]
You need to login to view this link

Holy shit, this is big surprise to me.
Ever since those Russian humanitarian trucks arrived, the rebels have been pushing Ukraine forces back.
User avatar #68921 to #68916 - alimais (09/04/2014) [-]
You can't run an army without food & water.
#68923 to #68921 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
I think that providing food and water to party should be treated as allying with that party.

I mean just because there are no US ground troops in Israel the US is still funding their operations.

If I was the leader of a nation and I found out that another nation was supplying my enemies I'd consider them my enemy as well.
User avatar #68924 to #68923 - alimais (09/04/2014) [-]
There are also a lot of civilians who needed help
#68925 to #68924 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
Still if my enemy is benefiting from the aid I would consider the suppliers my enemies as well. It's just good strategy to deter anyone who thinks about assisting those who oppose you.
#68914 - anonymous (09/04/2014) [-]
How do you feel about Technocracy?
User avatar #68962 to #68914 - undeadwill ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Foolish as how would someone determine policy? Other than debate and what would someone whom know chemistry know the proper action in economics or policy? Sure they are smart but think of it this way, Browning made great guns but do you think he would know the best means to write effective tax codes?

No different than the ancient ideals of the philosopher king, the warrior king, or one chosen by god.
User avatar #68991 to #68962 - jewishcommunazi (09/05/2014) [-]
Science =/= chemistry. Surely people who are especialized in economic science should deal with the economy, not Walter White. And I think most scientists would be glad to form their policies on debate.
User avatar #68994 to #68991 - undeadwill ONLINE (09/05/2014) [-]
So you want politicians to understand economics before discussing economics?
User avatar #69018 to #68994 - jewishcommunazi (09/07/2014) [-]
That might be a good idea.
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#68989 to #68962 - jewishcommunazi has deleted their comment [-]
#68920 to #68914 - youregaylol (09/04/2014) [-]
scientists can be power hungry dicks too.

i never understood the correlation between science and morality, being a scientist doesn't make you a saint.
User avatar #68990 to #68920 - jewishcommunazi (09/05/2014) [-]
It's not that scientists aren't more moral, but you don't expect them to be aligned to a specific ideology, making policies be decided more rationally.
User avatar #68917 to #68914 - jewishcommunazi (09/04/2014) [-]
I'm kind of positive about it.
User avatar #68963 to #68917 - undeadwill ONLINE (09/04/2014) [-]
Look above.
User avatar #68915 to #68914 - economicfreedom (09/04/2014) [-]
The US federal reserve is arguably the most powerful institution in the world. If they wanted to, they could throw the world into chaos in a day.
It is run by highly qualified economists.

And even they can't control the complexities of the economy.

If you put scientists in charge, they would still argue about the same things politicians do and they would be subject to the same corruptibility.
User avatar #68918 to #68915 - jewishcommunazi (09/04/2014) [-]
Maybe with scientists there would be much less partisan bullshit though.
#68911 - tredbear (09/04/2014) [-]
anyone know if Belarus or Iran will join CSTO?
anyone know if Belarus or Iran will join CSTO?
User avatar #68922 to #68911 - alimais (09/04/2014) [-]
Belarus is a member since 2002, Iran is a potential member
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