Don't get your hopes up.

Basically Blizzard took the established lore and laboured at it's anus with a nail-studded baseball bat.

Otherwise called "The Knaak Treatment"

In sort Deathwing gets defeated by you and your team mates with the help of the dragon aspects who in turn lose all of their power to defeat DW and become mortal soon to live out the rest of their lives. Then they show Thrall with his woman friend who so happens to be pregnant by him and now they have pandaria.

Here's the cinimatic. www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJr3giQsxo4

dragon power insemination

Dethwing's dead, Dragon Aspects are now mortal, Thrall's got a girlfriend, girlfriend is pregnant.

Probably won't. So long as WoW is here Blizzard can't change the dynamic of the Horde or Alliance races otherwise they'd upset the community, hence WCIV will only come once WoW is dead or Blizzard grows some balls.

But... But Warcraft 3 was so much better than Starcraft 2 is. :(

that is an unfair call my friend, warcraft 3 and warcraft TFT were full games, fully patched, starcraft two is taking it's baby steps, give it time, we will see what HOTS and future expansions bring.

although yes warcraft 3 shits on starcraft II at the moment

By far, my good man...

By far...

Yeah... but what fun is that?

Hence I say Garrosh for Warchief 2012! Wooh!

Blizzard is so bad at writing that they're probably going to do something stupid with the kid anyway... the lore's good and they have their good moments but frankly, they're pretty crap when it comes to their writing for WoW. Hell, the Draenei and Blood Elves have had almost -no- development since they were implemented and the gnomes still can't be arsed to re-take their sodding city. How hard is it to kill a bunch of midget lepers?!

personally im speaking from the lore side of things, game wise the more war the better, kill all the shitbag alliance scum, but in lore i say thet if it wernt for varia and garrosh the horde and alliance would have a chance for peace

-_- Wha'choo say about the Alliance, boy?

*sharpens spear*

*stabs and leaves silently*

Silence fool.

btw comment 13 was me, computer fucking messed up and logged me out

Well, if it weren't for the Orcs then Manoroth and the Burning Legion would never have gotten to Azeroth in the first place.

Nar'Zhul (i.e. The Lich King who possessed Arthas) was the Orc Warlock who opened the Dark Portal over on Draenor. Hence everything that happened with the scourge is all your fault. Plus, in the Horde there are Fel-users like the Blood Elves and heck, you've got an army of corpse-munching, dead-raising, undead monsters led by an Ex-Scourge War Criminal.

And then there's the whole blowing up Theramore with a huge bomb thing.

Horde's not helping it's case here. xD

talking bout fel users, both sides have warlocks, and the orcs were betrayed by ner-zhul,his treachery in murduring draka and durotan eliminated chance of somone bringing the orcs back to their senses, the powers of fel can give you power over the minds of people, and the undead are good people, they were once scourge, but they regained their free will and decided to help humanity fight off the scourge, granted sylvanas might one day try to betray us, she will be dealt with if it happens, now i will say this, i dont personally trust the blood elves myself, given the fact that it was them who caused the night elves to loose their imortality, but they have done no real treachery so they might have changed, as for the bomb, that is a misfortunate tragedy caused by garrosh, one day garrosh will no longer be warchief, and remember this, so far thrall has been one of the most important, if not the most important of all, characters, if not for thrall, aedelas blackmoore would have become the lich king, far surpassing arthas, the horde would never have been formed, so the alliance would be on its own during the fight against the scourge and the new lich king, therefore loosing and humanity being lost, and deathwing would rule all of azeroth till chromatus slays him and the other dragon aspect since thrall would never be there to help nozdormu get free of the different timelines, and that is why the alliance can suck it

(Btw, I love a good discussion. Thanks. ^_^)

*cracks knuckles*

Technically, via lore fel-users are traitors in the alliance and Warlocks only have the same skills for gameplay purposes.

Orcs were betrayed but frankly the Alliance either does not believe or does not know that (though likely they do not care all that much either.)

The undead are actually technically not good people. They lack almost all of their emotions by lore because that is what shadow-magic does to you and necromancy is shadow magic.

They didn't decide to help humanity fight off the scourge either, they simply wanted revenge on their Traitor King and Ner'Zhul who made them into monsters.
Sylvanas is probably going to betray the horde at some point, aye. She cares only for her Forsaken.

Actually, the Nelves lost their immortality by choice when the World Tree got the Exploding Archimonde treatment. Luckily it's slowly recovering. Teldrassil was their attempt at a second World Tree and a chance to regain their immortality but Alexstrazsa decided "Yeeeaaaaaah-no." so it didn't succeed. Vordrassil in the Grizzly Hills was another Ex-World Tree but a far older one.

What matters is not -who- ordered the bomb dropped, but that the bomb was dropped in the first place. WoW is -full- of racism (it really is everywhere...) and that was merely confirmation to the majority of the Alliance that the Horde are no less evil than they ever were, bombing Jaina (a long time peace-talker) and killing a great many people, similar to the atrocities experienced from the Forsaken in Gilneas, The Wrathgate, Southshore and Andorhal.

So, your entire argument is that the horde is awesome... because Thrall? You mean the guy who allowed the Forsaken into the Horde which allowed for all of those atrocities to happen? How about this then.

Magni Bronzebeard - Gave his life using the powers of ancient Titan artefacts to protect Ironforge from the Cataclysm.

Prophet Velen - Ancient magi and light-weilder who was the leader of the immortal, incredibly powerful and intelligent Draenei well over 25,000 years ago and probably a long time before that too. A man who has led his people in the fight against the Burning Legion for 25 Millennia (The Well of Eternity happened 10,000 years ago.)

That's 2 badasses to one by my count. Also, the Horde has Lor'Themar (who nobody cares about) and Sylvanas (A war-criminal so bad that people have taken to calling her the Lich Queen already.)

while i agree that magni was a great dwarf and i did mourn his death, if and when the forsaken betray the horde , they will be defeated mercilessly, and the horde follow the way of their warchief, once garrosh is dethroned( preferedly by bran, the son of the late cairn, or maybe thrall once azeroth's elements are healed) the horde will undobtedly never do somthing so terrible, also thrall allowed the forsaken into the horde out of mercy, feeling pity for their ailment, he cares for all races but will do what he must to defend his people, and i'll admit my knowledge of dreinei is extremely limited, most of my knowledge of the lore is of between ner zul's betrayel to the end of cataclysm(although i have been out of play since wrath) i have been keeping track of the lore through the books and through a friend o mine that plays still, an you prove my point by saying "Orcs were betrayed but frankly the Alliance either does not believe or does not know that (though likely they do not care all that much either.) " the alliance is too arrogant to see past what they think, ill admit that garrosh is arrogent as well, but he is just one leader, thrall, bran, and the current troll leader( my friend told me the other one died and he wont tell me the name of new one, he doesnt care much for trolls) will no doubt lead the horde back on the path to peace, and i know that jiana knows that thrall had nothing to do with the mana bomb,so i think that with i simple change of leadership ( dethroning garrosh and varian) will eventually lead to peace

Well, for a start it's actually Baine Bloodhoof, not Bran Bloodhoof. Though I imagine that's just because, as you said, you're out of the loop. However I think some things need to be put into perspective here.

1: The Forsaken are currently the strongest out of all the Horde Races. They own the strongest weaponry and are continually increasing their numbers. They also have the strongest shadow-mages in the world and arguably they have the best covert-ops in the world too. When Sylvanas' betrayal comes... you can bet your arse that the Horde's not going to be in -ANY- fit shape to fight back.

2: The Blood Elves are only a part of the Horde because of The Forsaken. They share a common history and common tragedy and see Sylvanas as still one of their own. If the forsaken go, so do the Belves. That means that the only foothold that the Horde will have in Northern EK is that little troll village in the Hinterlands... which I imagine won't last long.

3: Because of the above fact it is pretty obvious that the Horde will be a crippled dog once Sylvanas betrays them, likely setting up infiltrators all around the place to take out important targets. The weakened Horde will then be at an even greater disadvantage to the Alliance. More below.

4: The Alliance has the strongest Mages (Draenei and Highborne), the best technology (Gnomish and Dwarvern) and the most troops (Human, The Three Dwarf Families, Night Elves).
The weakened Horde will have the three weakest races (trolls, who are survivors of the coup on the Echo Isles and even then are but a single tribe, Tauren who have only recently stopped being nomads and Goblins who are all survivors of a single, small island.)

5: The Horde are outnumbered, outgunned and out-magiced by this point and the Alliance doesn't give a damn. They'll take their advantages, namely Cenarius (The Demigod) and the Night Elves and boot the Horde out of Ashenvale at the very least.

However... Blizzard are terrible writers and love the horde to bits, hence the horde has been able to flourish so well, so these obvious points are probably never going to factor into anything and the fight is going to either continue in the horde's (the far weaker faction already) favour.

chromaggus is, thought i could post the link to his wiki, he is a chromatic dragon core hound

hey any chance you have a hunter? if you do, i was looking up the chromatic dragonflight, this guy is tameable [url deleted] makes me wish i was still on

well ive run out of points to make, but i still think that truce between alliance and horde is a neccessity, it will take every fighter in azeroth to defeat the old gods, if it were up to me, varian and garrosh would be dethroned,baine would lead the horde,and jaina would lead the alliance, the war would most likely end given that both jaina and baine have met and know each others peacefull intentions, all of azeroth would band together with the dragonflights and defeat the old gods once and for all.(btw did you know onyxia was deathwings daughter, thtreally blew my mind)

I knew about Chromaggus and Onyxia and I HATE chroamaggus' design so I've never cared an inch about capturing him.

And according to current theory-crafting, there is no way to physically kill the old gods. C'Thun is still alive and so is Yogg'Saron. Let's face facts here, if the Titans couldn't kill them then it's a pretty sure thing that they're tough sons of bitches.

The theory goes like this. The Old Gods live off conflict and chaos. They only grow stronger through fighting and war and death. This is seen in Pandaria when you see the Sha, the Sha only exist because of the immense amounts of chaos and hatred going on at the moment in Pandaria. Over time the Pandaren learned how to subdue the Sha through balance.

The theory states that Azeroth is the Titan's finest weapon against the Old Gods. Azeroth was built to be a weapon of balance. If you look at the races of Azeroth you'll clearly see that Balance was intended and if you look at the evolution of those races you'll see how the Old Gods sought to destabilise that balance.

In the beginning there was the Ancient Wars between the trolls and the Aqir. The Aqir were servants of the old gods and when they split you can see that they still exist around the areas where the Old Gods reside. Namely C'Thun with the Silithids, Yog'Saron with the Nerubians and The rumoured god under Pandaria with the Mantid.

However something nasty happened to the trolls after they won. A number of their race were transformed into the first Highborne (rumoured to have been the work of N'Zoth) and then they fought the trolls, again starting another war across the world. You probably know the rest and how after the Well of Eternity N'Zoth again changed the Highborne into Naga.

The other important factor is the curse of flesh. Why would the Old Gods do such a thing? To make things mortal and to make them fight each other. Vrykul, Humans, Gnomes and Dwarves are all products in one way or another of the curse of flesh.

I'll not go into the rest of it because it is very complicated and you can probably google it on your own if you want to. But the only race who managed to forever maintain that peace were the Pandaren and even then the Mantid kept pointlessly throwing their young warriors at the Pandaren's walls. Possibly an attempt to weed the strong from the weak... possibly an attempt to create more chaos for their Gods to feast on.

wow, i actually didnt know much bout the old gods, only that they were likely the new main enemy , and that those egypt like raids were about them and there are some tentacle things in northrend that im guessing are them, like i said my earliest knowledge of azeroth is the betrayel of ner zhul( even though it didnt technickly happenb on azeroth) i only know the first tree of life was destroyed by demons, thts all i know bout that period of time

If I were you I would go to www.wowpedia.org/ and look up the Old Gods and, heck, anything else that takes your fancy. Blizzard are terrible at writing for an MMO but DAMN they've got some great lore there. I also suggest you read up on the Draenei. They're a pretty interesting race, even if there's little lore behind them.

quick question, i will soon go get my next wow novel, should i get the one bout illidan or the ones about the war of the ancients?

Dunno. I don't read the novels. I read WoWpedia to keep up with the lore. I'm an RPer so I need to know a lot about the lore to keep in cohesion with the world.

I would suggest Illidan because he is a great character and I hear he's going to be coming back soon enough, though I would suggest you choose the one that genuinely interests you the most. There is a great deal of lore surrounding the War of the Ancients as well.

are you kidding me, illidan is returning! fuck yea, i always wanted to fight him but nobody ever wanted to do the raid

Odd, that's a really popular raid on my server.

Still, I think the only development the draenei will get is when the Na'aru turn evil.

quick question, are rouges still being assholes, last time i was on i was waiting for my grp for an instance, just sitting in the air on my wyvern and gnome rouge just comes up to me and kills me mid air and just parachutes to ground

Dunno. I don't play on a PvP server and I don't play Battlegrounds. I've gotten bored of them and dungeons tbqh. Hence I stick with RP. It's always fresh. The people on the servers tend to act differently to people on other servers too so I don't know how big an arsehole these rogues were to you.

However I imagine that you can't really call a rogue an arsehole. The entire point of being a rogue is to kill someone fast and before they can do anything about it so really, as irritating as rogues are, there's not much you can really fault them on. If they kill you before you get a chance to react, chances are they're doing their job right.

its not that he killed me, its that he did it in mid air, thats cheap and really annoying, but ill give him this, creative

Eh. It's only since WotLK that the game has started taking it's storyline more seriously. Beforehand the storyline was mostly in the quest-text and the occasional cinematic. But honestly most of the really good stuff like Garrosh killing Cairne and Sylvanas killing herself happens outside the game itself. I can't be arsed to read the novels though so I just read it on WoWpedia.

i was a HUGE warcraft 3 fan, i was like 9 and played it 24/7, i'm really hoping for a Warcraft 4. world of warcraft ruined those plans for me

Aye. I know those feels, man.

The problem is that Blizzard didn't know how to write for an MMO when they started out and because of that, a lot of established lore characters got a shafting. Tyrande now spends all her time in Teldrassil, despite the fact that all through Warcraft III she rode a fucking TIGER into battle and kicked ass on the front lines. Malfurion now looks... fucking ridiculous. Cenarius is alive again and it seems he's -not- immediately ploughing straight through Ashenvale and killing every single Orc he finds because he is an immortal demigod and protector of the forest that the Orcs have been cutting through for well over a decade now, doing so literally over his dead body... not even got a reason why for that one...

Luckily, Maiev's as crazy as ever. Wants to kill Tyrande and Malfurion because they're such pussies now and lead the Nelves herself... I'm on her side tbqh...

Oh right, and Thrall is now Warcraft Jesus.

actually, scratch the whole MMO aspect, what i'd expect from Blizzard is a whole new style of online gameplay. can't invision what that'd be right now, but it'd have to be something very special for me to be interested after what i consider the trainwreck WoW was (despite its number of fans, i still stick by my guns that Blizzard fucked up big time with it)

ever since i was 9 i've named all my usernames Grom (after Hellscream obviously, my favourite video game characrter of all time) and i played WoW for a little bit but i hated the style of gameplay and lack of continuance of the story. what I would personally like to see is a platform Warcraft 3, where there are multiple modes of gameplay. original like Warcraft/starcraft, or third/first person like WoW that actually has a story line for your character with the option for MMO play if you so wish, cause honestly sometimes when i play MMO's just the sight of other players ruins the story. like "you are our only savior!!" "*see a million other saviors*"

Aye. Another RTS is what is needed. It gives a much grander feel to things.

Plus, I only really play WoW now for the RP servers. At least there people care about the storyline and the lore. Frankly, I have more fun there than I've ever had with those repetitive raids or Battlegrounds.

when i play WoW i just get the feeling that they tried WAY to hard to make Warcraft something its not

Eh, Warcraft was always good because it kept the focus on the characters who deserved to be focused upon. Dragon Soul was something like that, with the raiders being the footmen and knights who pound away doing all the damage for no recognition and Thrall then gets all the glory, just like in Warcraft.

However even then, I can't see an RTS ever coming as long as WoW is running. A good RTS would probably end up changing a lot of the game's story landscape like Warcraft III and Frozen Throne did. WoW would have to maintain it's 13 races on the sides that they are on otherwise they'd risk hurting the player-base. Because of that, the landscape can't change all that much.

As such, until WoW is down, there won't be another RTS. :(

speaking of blasts from the past.. i'm playing Sacred right now xD

-_- You lucky shit...

Ever played Heretic? Or am I about the only person who played that in stead of Doom?

ive heard of it, never played it. my desktop is fucking awful, can only play games from late 90's up to like 2003-4. so i've been stocking up on old games. its really easy, just got an ISO program (such as powerISO) and torrent games off piratebay, mount the game in the ISO program and you can burn it to discs. can even do it with platform games like xbox and such.

Well, Google "Heretic Iron Lich"

Because when I was 5-6 I was playing Heretic (My dad is an awesome... if honestly not very tactful, guy... had nightmares and everything from those beastites...)

so i'm mad cause i found my original Max Payne disc but i can't play cause modern computers can't run it (same with doom, quake, and the early Duke Nukem's)

looks like doom but with more thought put into it

Actually, it's a fantasy game and it came out after doom, hence the higher detail on the monsters.

yeah i watched a video, noticed how it was all magic based. they don't have any newer ones?

Dunno. Only played the first. Don't remember much of it, just that it was my first video game.

just looked it up, Heretic is made by the same programers as doom

Oh? That would explain why it was so much fun. ^_^

get*

Whoa! Back up! Cairne and Sylvanas die? I haven't played since tbc but why would they do that, Sylvanas was such an amazing character with a strong history all the way back to WC3

OHHH, just wait. The Horde takes its boot to the Alliance territory.

Do you mean the Mana-bomb? Or is this about Anduin? Because I know about both.

Lets just say, The Horde will control about 76% of the WoW collective landscape. Not including SW obviously.

Thank FUCK for that!

Seriously, even though I am an Alliance player I love to see WAR in my Warcraft. Even if technically the Alliance outnumbers the horde 3 to 1... and have access to far better technology because of the Dwarves and Gnomes... and have the strongest Magi in the lore because of the Draenei and the Highborne...

Yeah... how exactly are they planning to butt-fuck the Alliance into 24% of Azeroth again?

Im not sure what the "weapons(s)" is/are, but they are going to blow shit up and remove a (unknown at this time) area off the map for good. The area that will be gone is going to be a place not many people visit (Blizz has not decided exactly where), this will decrease map size. In the chaos the horde will "bum rush" and take small tactical advantages that give them a huge foot hold on Alliance territory. (Blizz "favors" Horde), they have to work out a lot of stuff before this all happens (why I don't have much info). But it is supposed to be the next expansions to WoW. Also on a side note, the OLD race models will finally be redone and look cool. I have seen a couple of the new model ideas and am very pleased.

Aye, the new models are a wonderful breath of fresh air for us RPers (don't judge please, we're agreeable folks.)

But if that's going to happen then... GOD DAMN THAT IS COOL!!!!!

I mean honestly... cool as all hell.

If an area of the world is going to be removed and it's not an area that is frequented then that leaves only a few locations. However from what you said... it gives me a pretty interesting idea.

1: I may be mistaken but isn't there a MASSIVE FUCKING CANNON being build in Azshara by the goblins?

2: The location is probably going to be in the Eastern Kingdoms if they're going to be messing with the Alliance/Horde dynamic...

3: I imagine it will probably be around the Wetlands area or Westfall/Swamp of Sorrows/Deadwind pass/Duskwood.