i can't even hit the true reset,

goddamn, i can't even uninstall it...

every time i hear his theme my eyes get misty

**** this ******* game... games are for fun, not for feelings

I reopened to do a genocide route and flowey talked to me.
I closed it after that.

I haven't reopened since.

Same.

I just youtubed a genocide run and watch as flowey still knew that I was doing that, referencing the people watching as having a lack of enough of determination.

It broke the fourth wall through a ******* youtube video.

>>#35, >>#27,

To be honest, once you've killed Toriel and went through the hassle of waiting up to two minutes per encounter doing nothing but walking around like a jackass just to kill the last couple monsters left in the area, you start being happy being able to move on to the next major character. Besides, the genocide route easily holds the best fights which are by far the most challenging ones. You also get to learn quite a bit. As heartbreaking as it is (at first), the genocide route is mandatory to see the game under its true light and the importance of being able to "save" and its consequences.

But goddamn. Clearing out every single area of all its monsters is so long. You really have to be patient. Especially in Hotland where you have to go through 40 random encounters and after each one, the probability of the next encounter happening lowers, until you're up to the last 10 and it takes ******* forever for them to happen.

Honestly, I do not see the appeal. Especially after doing true pacifist then hearing Flowey try to talk me out of it. I can't fathom why I would want to erase all of my friends memories and then proceed to slaughter all of them just to see some different dialogue and experience some difficult fights. If I want a difficult bullet hell I'll just go and find one, there are plenty.

Anything you want to know about a deeper meaning or background information on Undertale can easily be found online, without having to slaughter your friends. We live in the Information Age after all.

It's a thing to be experienced. And feels aside, if you paid money for it, you might as well see what all the game has to offer. Flowey even throws a shade at those who think like you. Saying that the people who wish to know what would happen if they went that route but prefers watching others do it are worse and more pathetic than those who actually have the guts to get their hands dirty.

Truthfully, aside from the painful area cleaning stated above, the genocide route has by far the best gameplay experience, and some of the soundtracks are ******* fantastic. Besides, after the genocide run, you can always reset one last time and get the happy ending again.

Is it truly at hing to be experienced? If you had the power to undo anything would you kill people just to experience it?
True, Flowey did condemn people like me, but, Flowey is also a soulless and distorted husk of his former self. I watched and read about the Genocide route to better understand the world of Undertale and to watch the characters I love dunk some fools, I go out of my way to avoid no-hit Genocide fights for a reason.

And as for doing a Genocide followed by a Pacifist play through, you and I both know why that wouldn't work. Even if I did modify game files to actually undo Chara taking my soul I'd still always know that I'd betrayed and murdered all of my friends just to see what it's like.

It is a thing to be experienced. It's challenging, it's fun, has super kickass soundtracks and constantly breaks the 4th wall. What's not to love? But there's a difference between a game and real life. No matter how much you love a game and its characters, killing one of said characters will never have nearly as much of an impact on you as if you killed someone in real life.

So you read about that too huh? Yeah, Chara takes your soul regardless of your final answer. And if you wait 10 minutes after that, you come back, but every ending from then on will be slightly altered, with Chara making creepy appearances. It's really neat.

I actually saved the files when I was doing a genocide run to just before the fight against Sans. I can fight him to my heart's content now. Just copy and paste the files. I wish I had thought of it earlier for Undyne but eh, what can you do.

I suppose that in the end I just cannot sympathize with the desire to experience something if it means harming those I care for. And yeah, I understand that it is a video game but I really got attached to those characters and the thought of hurting or resetting them disgusts me.

Is the Sans fight even challenging after you memorize his moveset?

I got attached to them too. Toriel is the sweetest thing ever. But I figured I might as well see the game under its true light and see what awaits me. And boy, I was not disappointed. The game delivered in more ways than I expected.

Not really. That's when cheat engine comes into play. It's a whole different fight when everything is 50% faster.

Not sure if it's "true" light as much as a different light. But I can at least understand wanting to see and experience more of an interesting world. I suppose we just go about it differently.

I was hoping when I first watched the Sans fight that he'd pull an Undyne the Undying, but, 150% speed probably has close to the same effect.

I see it as its true light, because that's when the game shows how serious it is about the whole saving business. Though the Flowey fight already showed a lot of it. But still.

Do you have any idea how terrifying his Gaster Blasters get when they're so fast? They just spawn and fire so fast. You barely have the time to see one that three more already zeroed in on you.

I can see your point and it certainly does feel more real, the way the world reacts to your atrocities. Well, except for Asgore, he totally could have done something besides be useless.

I still think it is "alternate" rather than "true". Genocide, Neutral, Pacifist, each one could be considered true for the Frisk that went through it, yet at the same time each one is but an alternate version of the other. I suppose that it depends on your interpretation of it all.

And that does sound quite frightening.

Asgore couldn't have done jack. By the time Frisk got to him, he was way too powerful for Asgore to be even so much as a mild inconvenience. I mean, Frisk had a knife. A KNIFE. You get a pretty heavy feeling when you find it actually. It's when you realize that **** is getting more real than you might have been prepared for.

Frisk is always the same when he resets everything. Frisk is the player. He resets because he feels like it. There isn't another Frisk for each ending. It's him just messing around with the timelines. Sans makes it clear when he said that his reports "showed a massive anomaly in the spacetime continuum, timelines jumping left and right, starting and stopping". It's Frisk messing around with he flow of time. It's always the same character. Saying that there was would be mistaking timelines for alternate dimensions. There is only one of each character, but they keep reviving the same series of events because of you.

Asgore could have definitely done something if he absorbed the six human souls and immediately went for the kill instead of messing around like Flowey did, he just unfortunately lacks the determination and will to do so. Really, I wish that Sans had absorbed the six human souls.

And it is not always Frisk. In the Genocide route the resurrected Chara, following your "guidance", possesses Frisk, hence why some dialogue while inspecting the environment or items changes towards the end of and during the Genocide route. If you get the True Pacifist ending after getting the Genocide route is is also pretty heavily implied that is also Chara. Poor distorted Chara.

And remember, Flowey was messing around with the flow of time long before Frisk ever showed up. That is most like what the massive anomaly originated from. The only reason Flowey stops using his power to reset and "load" his saves is because his Determination is overwhelmed by Frisk's. And they cannot all be the same character endlessly repeating the same story. After all more than one person can play Undertale at the same time.

I like to think of it as every time someone starts the game for the first time it is the first time that "Frisk" has woken up in the underground.

True. That would have been fun. But he never had the guts to do so. As Toriel said, he could have perfectly absorbed the first human soul he got, went through the barrier and gotten the six remaining souls there to then break the barrier. But every time a human showed up and he had to kill them, he was just hoping that it would never happen again. He was torn between his duty as a king to free his people, but also by his own morale of killing for such a selfish purpose.

I'm not sure about that to be honest. It could be that, but unless I'm mistaken, that whole part is still pretty vague.

Actually, Flowey wasn't the anomaly Sans was talking about. Sans knew about Flowey before Frisk even showed up, as Sans made Flowey reset quite a few times because he was always there to whoop his ass and stop him. Sans was an obstacle Flowey could never get past. The anomaly Sans refers to while fighting IS Frisk, since once Frisk showed up, Flowey could not have been the anomaly anymore because as you said, Frisk's determination completely overrides Flowey's.

That's up to interpretation, but everyone seems to agree that it's always the same Frisk.

Actually Sans does not know about Flowey, he only has a suspicion, Even when he sits down to eat with you he believes that it is a Echo Flower that is giving Papyrus advice and when Papyrus gathers everyone then talks about Flowey San's doesn't react to it like Alphys does. If Sans did remember everything after a reset then he would hunt Flowey every time he reset and warn his brother about him. He would also hunt you down after resetting a Genocide route play through.

Flowey admits to Chara as they are walking through New Home and Agore's house that he had been messing around with and using his power to reset and mess with the Underground for a long time and he only stopped doing it when the character showed up because your determination was stronger.

As for evidence on Chara possessing Frisk let me give you some examples.
Chara says at the end of Genocide that feeling Frisk got whenever Hp,ATK,DEF Lv, or Exp increased it was him, thsi can be seen as his hold over you growing stronger and stronger, especially when you take into consideration the dialogue changes present in the Genocide route. Frisk/Chara comments on things he has no way of knowing here are several examples.

Padlocks: "He leaves them in the kitchen and the hallway."
Beds: "My Bed" and "His Bed."
Bookshelves/Asgore's Closet: : "Nothing useful."
Refrigerator: "No chocolate."
Kitchen Note: "I've read this already."
Photograph: "..."
Journal: "The entries are always the same."
Drawing of Flower: "My drawing."
Closet: "Our clothes."
Asgore's Dresser: "Still has that sweater."
Mirror: "It's me, <player name>."

My source is the Undertale Wiki: undertale.wikia.com/wiki/Genocide_Route

If that isn't evidence of Chara's possession of Frisk's body then I don't know what is.

I meant that he knew about him whenever he starting messing around with timelines because Sans could track him down because of his instruments' readings, that's when Sans would take action and foil Flowey's plans, forcing him to reset once again. Of course that exact course of events is speculation, but it is confirmed that Sans beat Flowey in multiple timelines before Frisk's arrival.

That's evidence I missed then. Good find.

Games that **** around with timelines almost always weird plots that don't make any sense and are overly complicated and soporific, but Undertale managed to touch that subject in a manner that makes perfect sense as long as you give it just a few seconds of thinking. It's brilliant.

That I can definitely agree with, Undertale is a brilliant brilliant game. Beyond that yeah it is hard to pin down how much Sans knows of Flowey and how he found him all those times. All I can really find in the wiki and such is that at least one reset was caused because Papyrus made a Flowey fan club.

Then again we don't need to know everything. Speculating is half the fun. There's nothing fun for the community to do if there's nothing they can research. The Dark Souls series is a prime example of that, with 70% of the lore that has to be figured out by piecing the different hints placed throughout the games here and there. Nothing like puzzles to get the fans going. Papyrus would love this.

He certainly would. It is always fun piecing together and speculating about lore.

That's probably why i'm doing a neutral route, then genocide, then Pacifist to "Fix" my genocide.

Sorry, meant to say "True Pacifist"

Bitchass punk think's it's keeping my soul? The ability to edit gamefiles fill me with DETERMINATION.

Yeah, I do.

Stealin my soul back via cheating is all apart of the plan.

It disturbs me that people can do genocide runs and not feel like
< this.

You can reset the game's memory
** BUT YOU'LL REMEMBER EVERYTHING**

Yeah, I'll remember it, but nobody else will. If nobody knows that I've ****** everything up once, and I put it right again, then it's fine, isn't it?

Show people different stimuli and you get different reactions. Put pressure on someone and you'll see what they're really made of.

More importantly, I do it because I can, and because I 'can' I have to.

The need to press on and see the ending, fill me with determination.

I can't begin to set things right until I finish mopping up here.