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Discussion. when there are so many options for women when they get pregnant, why should men be forced to pay?. TO PAY Foil A Kill lit TH WITHIT... Hill TI) BIN:

when there are so many options for women when they get pregnant, why should men be forced to pay?

TO PAY Foil A Kill lit
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+551

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Favorited:	32
Submitted:	01/09/2016

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+226

#5 - anon (01/09/2016) [-]

Men have no reproductive rights.

A woman may choose to abort, for whatever the reason. For example financial reasons if she doesn't have the money to care for the child. But if a man cannot afford to care for a child, to bad, child support is up sucker.
Even just so much as "its inconvenient" is a valid reason for a woman to abort. As a man you can be sick, poor, and absolutely incapable of assuming a parental role, and to bad, someone else made the choice that you will.

A man only has reproductive obligations. As soon as semen is extracted from a man, the man has no say over what happens with it anymore but has to take all responsibility for what others might do with it.
This includes rape. If a man (or boy) who is raped and his attacker ends up pregnant, the man (or boy) has to take full responsibility. Male rape victims have been succesfully sued for child support.

In many countries a man also has no right to find out of the child he is told he is reponsible for, is actually biologically his. A woman can point at any man she had sex with and claim he got her pregnant, the man has to accept his paternal role unless a court grants a paternity test. Which these courts do not often do in these situations.

There have even been cases where a man that was known not to be the biological father was ordered to take paternal responsibilities, because "he had assumed a fatherly role".

When it comes to reproduction men only have responsibilities, and even if you aren't the real father you can still end up being sentenced as a wage slave to support for a child that is not your own.
Not to mention divorce/marriage laws, and how they work against men.

Men have no reproductive rights.

A woman may choose to abort, for whatever the reason. For example financial reasons if she doesn't have the money to care for the child. But if a man cannot afford to care for a child, to bad, child support is up sucker.
Even just so much as "its inconvenient" is a valid reason for a woman to abort. As a man you can be sick, poor, and absolutely incapable of assuming a parental role, and to bad, someone else made the choice that you will.

A man only has reproductive obligations. As soon as semen is extracted from a man, the man has no say over what happens with it anymore but has to take all responsibility for what others might do with it.
This includes rape. If a man (or boy) who is raped and his attacker ends up pregnant, the man (or boy) has to take full responsibility. Male rape victims have been succesfully sued for child support.

In many countries a man also has no right to find out of the child he is told he is reponsible for, is actually biologically his. A woman can point at any man she had sex with and claim he got her pregnant, the man has to accept his paternal role unless a court grants a paternity test. Which these courts do not often do in these situations.

There have even been cases where a man that was known not to be the biological father was ordered to take paternal responsibilities, because "he had assumed a fatherly role".

When it comes to reproduction men only have responsibilities, and even if you aren't the real father you can still end up being sentenced as a wage slave to support for a child that is not your own.
Not to mention divorce/marriage laws, and how they work against men.

0

#113 to #5 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

"In many countries a man also has no right to find out of the child he is told he is reponsible for, is actually biologically his. A woman can point at any man she had sex with and claim he got her pregnant, the man has to accept his paternal role unless a court grants a paternity test. Which these courts do not often do in these situations."

I would like a citation on this quote, because the last time I heard about this was because someone on the internet had misunderstood (Surprise!) a bill being passed in France and the internet subsequently blew it out of proportion as it was much fairer than many claimed.

www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=2DDF81E9AFA7E23CB5EBDEDA0F6D6BB7.tpdjo09v_3?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006150526&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006070721&dateTexte=20150124

- I have only been able to find the translated legislation on PDF. But I will be happy to share it.

"There have even been cases where a man that was known not to be the biological father was ordered to take paternal responsibilities, because "he had assumed a fatherly role"."

Wasn't this fake or a one time thing in America? So I believe some citation on this would be needed.

+7

#64 to #5 - paynetrayne (01/10/2016) [-]

What happens when a Woman murders your child behind your back without telling you. Why is there no law that prevents this....
I dont give a **** if its your ******* body, thats my child. My DNA resides in that fetus so I should atleast have 50% of the say. Nuff said

+9

#72 to #64 - kibuza (01/10/2016) [-]

While I definitely agree that we should have a say in the childbirth, you're forgetting that the kid also has her DNA AND uses her body for 9 months and could leave lasting effects on her body. I think a 50/50 split is too generous.

Although maybe instead of talking in percentiles we should work it out like adults? No woman deserves to be forced to have a kid just because YOU want one, just as I think no man should be forced to have a kid just because SHE wants one. It should be a mutual thing.

0

#68 to #64 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

Why is this thumbed down, they are taking over

+10

#56 to #5 - crlmsonhazard (01/10/2016) [-]

this is why i'm a 28 year old virgin

this is why i'm a 28 year old virgin

+29

#69 to #56 - psychedelegate ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Oh, right, that's why...

+13

#88 to #56 - Deathmaster (01/10/2016) [-]

Holy **** dude you're almost there!

Holy **** dude you're almost there!

+4

#100 to #56 - speederzdk (01/10/2016) [-]

You're a wizard, Hazard.

+6

#61 to #56 - blackrunner (01/10/2016) [-]

Lol that's ******* sad

+6

#106 to #5 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

I would suggest a term of Recreational Sex.

Any sexual acts that do not involve vaginal penetration would be considered Recreational Sex. Any sexual intercourse in which contraception is (claimed) to be used is Recreational Sex.

Should pregnancy result from an act of Recreational Sex the man has the right to divorce from the child, having no responsibilities (or rights) towards the child. The woman would be allowed to unilaterally decide to have an abortion.
Obviously any pregnancy as a result from criminal activity such as rape should allow the victim to "back out".

Any sex that is not deemed recreational that results in pregnancy will fall under the "It takes two to Tango" monniker. Which comes down to both parents having to take responsibility.
The man has to assume responsibility if the woman wants to keep the child. But the woman has to also assume responsibility if the father wants to have the child, meaning she is not allowed to commit to an abortion without consent from the father or urgent medical reasons.

The man got the woman pregnant has been used as the excuse as to why men are always responsible. However the woman allowed herself to get pregnant, so she must also take full responsibility.

I would suggest a term of Recreational Sex.

Any sexual acts that do not involve vaginal penetration would be considered Recreational Sex. Any sexual intercourse in which contraception is (claimed) to be used is Recreational Sex.

Should pregnancy result from an act of Recreational Sex the man has the right to divorce from the child, having no responsibilities (or rights) towards the child. The woman would be allowed to unilaterally decide to have an abortion.
Obviously any pregnancy as a result from criminal activity such as rape should allow the victim to "back out".

Any sex that is not deemed recreational that results in pregnancy will fall under the "It takes two to Tango" monniker. Which comes down to both parents having to take responsibility.
The man has to assume responsibility if the woman wants to keep the child. But the woman has to also assume responsibility if the father wants to have the child, meaning she is not allowed to commit to an abortion without consent from the father or urgent medical reasons.

The man got the woman pregnant has been used as the excuse as to why men are always responsible. However the woman allowed herself to get pregnant, so she must also take full responsibility.

+2

#118 to #106 - timmity (01/10/2016) [-]

That's surprisingly reasonable.

0

#134 to #106 - flemsdfer (01/10/2016) [-]

The flaw in that is how would you prove contraception was used or claimed to have been used? It could easily fall down to "I wore a condom!" "No he didn't!" or something along those lines, and since chances are you were both alone together... It'd just be your word against each others'.

+45

#7 to #5 - fatsigurd (01/10/2016) [-]

I think I read one story where a guy laid in coma for a while and when he woke up he was arrested because he did not pay child support while he was comatose.
The law sometimes really just ***** all over men.
I'm not an MRA, but most of what they say is absolutely true, contrary to feminists.

+25

#11 to #7 - xsirwafflezx (01/10/2016) [-]

I will never understand how the justice system works.

A person can enter your home, with the intention of stealing stuff, injure themselves, and sue you for an unsafe household.

What kind of backwards logic is that? How can a judge possibly sit there and let such injustices happen? Where's the humanity? And don't get me started with the story you mentioned, that's just ridiculous.

+23

#20 to #11 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

Unless you are in the middle part of the united states.

Can't sue you if you have a bullet in the head.

0

#108 to #20 - niggastolemyname (01/10/2016) [-]

>>#11 or all the states bordering the atlantic south of the mason-dixon line

+1

#30 to #11 - shatstorm (01/10/2016) [-]

The whole point of a jury deciding guilty/not guilty is that the jury can decide against laws they feel are unjust, such as that situation. However, the successful unethical, lying, immoral lawyers will twist laws into their, and their client's, favor and that's how you get outcomes like that.

0

#42 to #7 - Shiny (01/10/2016) [-]

What they say is true, but it's usually blamed on feminism when its intent is to enforce societal gender roles by law. Not that modern feminism hasn't become **** , but still.

+6

#24 - skeletorexplains ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

**skeletorexplains used "*roll picture*"**
**skeletorexplains rolled image** tbh men also have the options of ways to stop a woman getting pregnant.

Wear a condom
Don't **** her bare in the pussy?
Anti semen **** (I suppose thats more a female product)
and i am fairly sure there's a male equivalent of birth control

You have a choice as to how you want to stick your dick in her pussy, don't sit there n whine if you didn't take the correct steps to stop the pregnancy and she kept it. Could also go as far to see you can get her to sign an agreement, i hear that's going around.

0

#67 to #24 - daiemio ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Problem is, a condom is 90~% fool proof, combine that with 2-3 days PREPARED anti-pregnancy creams, pills and all other **** , you have a HIGH, but not impossible chance of avoiding a pregnancy, most times, sex is spontaneous and highly unprepared, resulting in unwanted preganancy.

-3

#25 to #24 - slater (01/10/2016) [-]

Rape. What if the guy was in a coma as above, and was raped? What if the guy was drugged and raped? What if the guy's 'sample' from his jacking off was somehow stolen by his GF or some sick **** out there and forced into a female clitoris to impregnate her?

+29

#26 to #25 - bibbity (01/10/2016) [-]

"Forced into a female clitoris to impregnate her"

"Forced into a female clitoris to impregnate her"

0

#29 to #25 - skeletorexplains ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

If you were in a Coma, i am 110% sure, that you'll A: have evidence you were Raped and B: Did not want the baby, so you could sue as well if anything.

If you were drugged and raped, again, You can have her arrested.

if the guy's "Sample" was stolen, she still needs to go to the doctor to have an artificial insemination..Which i am fairly sure needs consent

+1

#89 to #29 - badhatharry (01/10/2016) [-]

It's not always that easy. The coma case I can see being easy to have her accused of rape because there'd be evidence of your coma status, length etc. but even then it's not 100% if you were in a coma a short while.

If you were drugged and raped there may be little evidence of drugs left in your system by the time you press charges and women, from what I've read, are tried much more leniently of rape than men are.

And a "sample" can be stolen by simply poking a hole in a condom before sex and not informing the guy. Something that again is hard to prove unless you keep said condom.

I've heard of cases similar to the last 2 where the man has had to pay child support despite not consenting fully because it's still "his kid".

0

#146 to #89 - skeletorexplains ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

And the case of the condom, if you use one and a chick gets pregnant, i think you can sue the company that made it (I've heard of a few people doing this)

Of course you'd need to keep the condom and so on, all very doubtful things, but if you can prove you did all that i don't see a problem.

All of these flaws you have suggested though are...So UNLIKELY to happen, it's basically a plot to a movie..if you have a GF who does ANY OF THIS or you know she's ******* crazy, why would you be with her? There's a rule of thumb of not sticking your dick in crazy, and if she is trying this damn hard for a kid, dump her. There's no such thing as "Nothing you can do" and i highly doubt there's cases where a guy was still forced to pay child support despite all of this. that would be less than 1% of even these unlikely circumstances.

If you want to go the extreme, Vasectomy, there, no more semen, no more baby batter. No kids.

+33

#1 - thebluedream ONLINE (01/09/2016) [-]

I mean that is a risk you have to take when you have sex, but the fact that women are literally the only ones who get a say in the matter when it does happen is also supper ****** . There is no real right answer with this.

-15

#23 to #1 - Shorticus (01/10/2016) [-]

I agree that it sucks that men don't really get a choice. If there were a way to let a man carry the baby to term or have it grow outside of a person if the man wanted it and the women didn't then that'd be freaking awesome. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world yet. The problem is that you can't force someone to carry a child an dave it affect every part of their life for the next 7-9 months and put their life in danger.

I dunno, as long as people have sex with people who care about each other and themselves, coming to an agreement shouldn't be too hard to do.

+7

#28 to #23 - citruslord ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Men and women do not get an equal say in the matter, so coming to an agreement isn't always fair, especially when the one party has as much power as they do.

The issue I see with the argument that you can't force a woman to carry it to term, or that it's their choice, is that they really aren't held to the same standard as men. They have a world of choices before they have sex, as do men. When two adults consent to having sex, they both accept the possibility of a child. With or without contraceptive use, you do so with the understanding that there are risks involved.

Except only one party is ever expected to be responsible for their actions and the consequences thereof.

-5

#31 to #28 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

they don't get equal say because they don't get equal pain/responsibility when it comes to getting the child into the world. Yes men have to pay child support but the mother takes time off work to birth it, pays the hospital bills, takes weeks to heal, deals with sore breasts from milk production. Men suffer literally zero side effects besides the fact that they have to pay. And even then, the woman is covering the bills for the child too. And some men never pay.

0

#36 to #31 - citruslord ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

True, But again, all of that is 100% avoidable. Just because it is worse for one party, doesn't justify the complete lack of responsibility that seems to be given/sought after.

0

#122 to #36 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

you act like getting an abortion is all fun and dandy, that's painful and invasive.

0

#138 to #122 - citruslord ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Forgive me for not feeling pity for a procedure that's completely optional.
Also, pain pills and anesthetics are a thing.

0

#141 to #138 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

you said birth was avoidable, this is the route besides birth, anesthetics aren't offered during abortion and they recommend you don't take pain medication because it thins your blood and during an abortion you bleed a lot (it basically forces a misscarriage and the uterus has to shed the placenta etc.)

0

#143 to #141 - citruslord ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

I said pregnancy was avoidable.
And either way, discomfort or no, it's all optional.

0

#111 to #31 - conniev ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

See comments 44 and 107.

+3

#44 to #23 - conniev ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

First and foremost, no one forces them to do anything with the child. It' their choice to carry to term or not.

But Citrus hit you up on that already. Instead I want to go back to someone being forced to do something.

When an adult woman coerces, either through physical, verbal or emotional manipulation, a minor as young as 11 years of age into having sexual relations with them, becomes pregnant, carries the baby to term and then successfully sues the child, who was raped by said woman, into paying child support, where is the fairness in that? That this young boy will have to grow up a rape victim, something that will affect him for the rest of his life, now has to be further victimised, completely legally at that, by having first his innocence and privacy, but now his money and livelihood stripped from him until the day his child becomes an adult.

You think that is fair? Because the woman carried the child for nine months? When her victim is going to no doubt have relationship and trust issues for the rest of his life? That there is a fair chance he will develop Borderline Personality Disorder( www.helpguide.org/articles/personality-disorders/borderline-personality-disorder.htm ) as a result, which will make his life even harder?

That, as no doubt someone will reply to this and prove, there will be people who absolutely refuse to take the idea of him being a rape victim seriously, that tell him to suck it up and move one?

Oh but hey, what with men's successful suicide rates already being higher than womens, and their mental and emotional health constantly being marginalised, especially when it's rape accusations, I can totally understand how nine months of pregnancy is a completely and totally valid argument.

Next time a boy is raped I guess he should put a condom on, right?

-5

#103 to #44 - Shorticus (01/10/2016) [-]

I obviously wasn't referring to rape. Grow up.

+2

#107 to #103 - conniev ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

See but here's the real nasty part there. The above is the worst case scenario. But you've got women intentionally putting holes in condoms, lying about their birth control, or liqouring people up so that they can't make a proper decision and/or control what their doing in a proper means.

These things happen, and have happened on more than just a handful of occasions, so instead of running from the problem at hand and demanding I 'grow up' why don't you actually sit the **** down and think through some of the real issues that can lead to the entrapment of someone?

That and you still haven't addressed the fact that a woman(in a first world country where they fully have that freedom of choice) is never actually forced to carry a child.

Going even further past that, you said this-

as long as people have sex with people who care about each other and themselves, coming to an agreement shouldn't be too hard to do.

-But do you have any idea how many abusive relationships there are out there, for the man or the woman, emotionally or physically.

But again, if you're only argument is women CHOOSE to carry the baby then men should be forced to pay. Because clearly that makes sense.

That's like saying if I choose not to work for the rest of my life you should have to pay for me. Makes no sense.

0

#121 to #107 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

when a man gets a woman drunk to sleep with her you guys say it's regret not rape. it's always "well she made the choice to drink"

0

#130 to #121 - ninjeh (01/10/2016) [-]

Bait much? you've seen the poster(even though you're anon and wont reply) "If a man and a woman have drunken sex(both drink by their own choice, no one making another drunk), then it's the man's responsibility, if the woman regrets it she can call rape and he WILL be prosecuted.

A woman gets a man drunk and gets his sperm to get a baby off him to leech off him? ITS THE MANS FAULT FOR GETTING DRUNK AND TURNED ON

Yahoo also might not be a place to look for stuff like this, but I've seen a post of a person( I assume a woman, unless trolling) asking if there's a way she could make her male neighbour who babysitted her kids to pay child support because he "assumed a fatherly role" by babysitting them.

****** nasty and so are you.

0

#147 to #130 - conniev ONLINE (01/11/2016) [-]

What it is Ninjeh is that they have no argument base, so they only go after the small pieces they think they can win against, but missing the rest of the post means everyone knows they're failing anyway.

0

#145 to #23 - Shorticus (01/10/2016) [-]

I literally don't understand why I'm getting thumbed down. I never said men should always have to pay ore even mentioned it....I just stated that no one can force the woman to carry the baby to term and I wish there was a way for the man to keep the child if the woman didn't want it. That's it.

+1

#3 to #1 - platinumaltaria ONLINE (01/09/2016) [-]

Women also know the risk of having sex and are allowed abortion...

+1

#110 to #1 - emptysuperman (01/10/2016) [-]

Getting mugged/rapped/murdered is a risk I take when I walk to my car. How silly would it be if any of those were to happen society was like, "Oh, **** , you were walking to car, mate. That's just the risk you take."?

What am I supposed to do? Never walk to my car? That's a dumb as a prospect as to say, "Never have sex again unless you want kids."

+4

#48 to #1 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

The solution is allow men to opt out of child support within the legal abortion time. This would however mean that you do not have the legal rights of a father either. If a woman did not inform a man within the abortion time period then the man should still be able to opt out. If a man has reason to suspect a child is not his he should legally be allowed to test the child and opt out of child support. I guess this wouldn't solve everything but I think that's more fair

+9

#6 - badgoodass (01/09/2016) [-]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/11646385/Contraception-Male-Pill-is-coming-and-its-going-to-change-everything.html
Get ready folks

0

#15 to #6 - goodhomer ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3385604/End-vasectomy-New-implant-allows-men-turn-fertility-flick-switch-inside-scrotum.html

+1

#14 to #6 - goodhomer ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Why the **** is that article in "Womens Health"?

0

#43 to #14 - miasaki ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Women with possibly responsible man-whores in their sights?
Poor female sluts?
The woman in the relationship has adverse affects to plan B? Only legit reason I have at the time.
Idk, that's all I got. I do not see much of a reason for a woman concerned with their health to want info on a male contraceptive.

+2

#8 to #6 - fatsigurd (01/10/2016) [-]

inb4 a man on contraception pills is still made to pay child support because what the ****

+14

#9 to #8 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

men have been forced to pay child support for children that weren't even theirs.

0

#33 to #8 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

it's not 100% effective, birth control can fail.

+8

#41 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

I believe child support is to prevent mothers and their kids suffering because of the father leaving, specially when the female gets pregnant at a younger age. This is just one reason and there could be more out there, but this one happened to my mother.

My biological father left after a year I was born because he chose to do drugs over having a family, my mom would have been ****** without child support because she was only 16 at the time with no job.

Of course the system is flawed sometimes but its there for people for really, truly need it. it is just unfortunate that sometimes, it can be negative for people.

+1

#47 to #41 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

lol you were an accident

+4

#49 to #41 - anonmynous (01/10/2016) [-]

I have a friend who accidentally got his girlfriend pregnant, has been raising the child on his own for four years now while his baby-mama has been stripping and doing drugs in another state... and he pays her child support. He has been saving his lifetime earnings for years now to hire a lawyer to get full custody and get the child support ruling reversed and I sincerely hope he succeeds.

+14

#27 - vorarephilia

(01/10/2016) [-]

For a website of virgins, there sure is a lot of concern about reproductive rights.

video unrelated.

For a website of virgins, there sure is a lot of concern about reproductive rights.

video unrelated.

+11

#38 - colossusshadow ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

I don't know how many times I need to say this.
The difference between a woman choosing to not have a child and a man choosing, is that there either IS a child growing up who needs parental support or there ISN'T a child, it's really ******* simple.

You people of funnyjunk can't screech like insufferable harpies how men aren't equal and therefor not everything can be equal, and then continue to screech about things not being perfectly equal. Women have more reproductive rights because they play more of a role in reproduction, SIMPLE CONCEPT on top of the concept that a woman who aborts equals no child that has to go without, but a guy opting out of child means a child going without.

Oh and by the way it's super common for dudes to be like "oh yeah cool let's have this kid together" and THEN opt out when it's too late for abortion.

0

#45 to #38 - needsauceadmisblan (01/10/2016) [-]

well yea they are freaking out.
this is something that can happen to them at least to the guys. we know that the child is going to be going without. Even with the mandated support that they are being forced to provide they are going "without" someone who does that because they love the kid. But the without you're thinking of the basics of life such as food shelter and water ****you are a fool**** that's at least part of why things like child protective services, welfare, and free lunch at school which is kinda of part of welfare.
women play more of a role in reproduction because that just how god or nature made it. their are risks associated wit h having a kid but modern medicine has mad them nonexistent unless the mother makes the risks exist im thinking stuff like smoking and drinking as in risks to the kids

your last point is really the only one that has a point that cant be truly reputed beyond the super common part. c'mon that s debatable at best. but thats usually what marriage is traditionally supposed to be for so they both know they are going to have a kid and the man to not get out of it. i mean the women can go and abort if she gets pregnant even when the are married, if she so chooses, its everything after the kids birth the father would have a say in legally.

+1

#81 to #38 - choobe ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Your last point, we could implement a system where a man can "sign away" his parental rights, in which case he can get no parental rights to the kid at any point after that?

And your other points, maybe if a woman isn't economically stable enough to raise a kid when she knows she won't get any child support pr. an agreement like the one over for example. , she shouldn't do it. If she's against abortion there's still adoption. I don't understand why it's the god-given right of every person with a working uterus to raise a kid CPS takes your kid if you **** up, maybe the should do an initial check when you first get pregneant if you are fit for the role?

0

#125 to #81 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

you're aware that men can already sign away their parental rights? Right? Y'all are bitching about **** you know nothing about.

0

#135 to #125 - choobe ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Where can a man sign away economical parental rights I know I didn't specify that, but from context it should have been clear that was what I meant ? I know noone can force a man to see the kid if he doesn't want to, but he still has to pay child support.

0

#136 to #135 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

family-law.freeadvice.com/family-law/child_custody/voluntarily-terminating-parental-rights.htm you have to get a judge to agree, as with most legal documents and it varies from state to state.

0

#139 to #136 - choobe ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

And this is moslty relevant to when you adopt away the kid, since the courts are extremely reluctant to approve it when there's noone who's ready to "take over" your responsibility. And also, it needs the approval of the custodial parent (the mother), so it's a little redundant for this situation, since she could just not file for child support if she agreed. In other words, almost completely irrelevant.

"Two common situations that often lead to requests to terminate parental rights include: (1) a parent who wishes to terminate his/her child support or financial obligation for the child; and (2) a parent who desires to have the other parent completely out of their life. Neither ground is generally sufficient alone to constitute “good cause” and will not typically be approved."

From your source.

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#142 to #139 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

yea, I didn't say they'd always get what they wanted but it's already a thing. You know this happens with rape victims right? In many states if a man has been convicted of raping the mother to get her pregnant, his parental rights aren't terminated.

0

#144 to #142 - choobe ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

It's a thing, but it's not really an "opt out", it's only used in very special cases, not really an option for most people who accidentally knocked up a woman who insists on keeping it and demanding child support or one who said she was on the pill or plain unlucky fail of condom. . And of course it's horrible if a rapists parental rights aren't terminated, but rape is an entirely different can of worms from what "we all are bitching about".

+1

#98 to #38 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

well how about the chance for a man to say "i dont want this child" during the legal abortion time and he looses all rights to see the kid and don't have to pay for it?
i guess that would be a better way than leaving everything to the woman

+8

#13 - thunderchild ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Because the system treats women as inferior. It assumes a woman cannot provide for a child without a man's help

0

#127 to #13 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/10/2016) [-]

No that's why child support isn't a set fee, they say the child deserves to live as if both parents were still together. So a child born to a regular working man will receive less child support than a child born to a start athlete, not because the kid deserves the bare minimum but because it deserves to live like it would with both parents.

0

#39 to #13 - fukkentyranitar ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Or maybe being a single parent regardless of gender is ******* hard without a decent job and family support. If either parent decides that they don't want to take care of the child, they should still do their part to make sure the kid has a reasonable upbringing.

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#58 to #39 - thunderchild ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

My father had cslly decided to stop providing for us my sophomore year if highdchool. The only thing he half ass payed was the mortgage and that was only because he built our house by hand on family land. The system is ******* broken because my mom tried to get help but because she had two minimum wage jobs she made "too much" despite having bankruptcy payments taking 600 a month out of her checks. When she asked for power bill help we were told the same thing, and when she explained they said well you should just live somewhere cheaper (because if we can't afford the power bill we can certainly afford the 3,000 moving cost) another group said they wouldn't even consider helping because we "owned" rather than rented. The system actually encouraged my mother to divore and Sue my father. I've lived without electricity for 2 months one year and 3 months the next I've had times where I went two days without eating because we simply had no money till pay day. I know how bad single parents can have it. The system still assumes the man had responsibility regardless of the mothers ability. A coworker makes 90,000 and her and her husband whos a cop, 36,000 a year got divorced the ******* judge offered the woman alimony and child support even though she made more that twice as much (she declined ) . my point is the system favors women in almost all things divorce and parental and the aud system basically forces women with low means to go for the throat

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#60 to #58 - thunderchild ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Sorry for bad spelling and or grammar I'm on my phone in bed at 6 am

+4

#74 - commencingfailure (01/10/2016) [-]

Or just use a condom? If you're going to be a dumb asswhipe you're going to feel the consequences

Or just use a condom? If you're going to be a dumb asswhipe you're going to feel the consequences

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#76 to #74 - TheHutchie (01/10/2016) [-]

It's important to remember that condoms and the pill don't always work (I was actually born as a result of the pill failing), but I sense that your point is more targeted at people who don't even attempt to use protection.

I think, to give a more in-depth version, my advice would be this:

Unless you know and trust the girl, assume she's lying about being on the pill. The only time you should be having sex without a condom is if you're in a long-term relationship and you know for a fact that she's on the pill, is trustworthy, and will get the abortion if lightning strikes and your contraception fails.

If you're having a one-night-stand and the condom splits or something, you get that girl to the pharmacy the next day and you make sure she takes the morning-after pill. If she refuses, you'd better get her to sign some **** declaring that you had no intention of her getting pregnant. If she refuses that, resist the urge to stomp her head into the pavement and instead just keep talking to her in person about it, secretly recording her voice. Save screenshots of all her online conversations with you. Do not try to forget she exists until you have sufficient evidence that the pregnancy was completely against your will. Make sure to back up all of this information. If your hard drive breaks and then you end up in court a month later, you will be ****** by the barbed arm of "justice".

-1

#77 to #76 - commencingfailure (01/10/2016) [-]

How does a condom not always work? Also the pull ALMOST ALWAYS works, it's a 99,999% case we're talking about it.

You were probably born(holy **** thats pathetic btw, but that aside) because your mom way too lazy a cunt to take them as prescribed.

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#90 to #77 - eddymolly (01/10/2016) [-]

You'd be surprised how many mistakes people can make.

The second a dick is hard, sperm starts coming out. Obviously most comes out when you cum, but its basically like a hose. Even when it's not spraying out some water still dribbles out the end.

Condoms are lubed on one side. If someone goes to put it on, realises its the wrong way round then flips it inside out there's sperm on the outside of it.

A lot of people don't pinch the tip. Condoms have that little nipple on the end for a reason. If you leave it full of air, rub it around a load then cum in it you can rupture the end and leak a load out.

You can accidentally pierce them with your nails, not put them on far enough and they slip off, they could be out of date and perrish.

Plus as the other guy said, they sometimes just rip.

There's all kinds of ways a Condom can go wrong, and then you have the chance of pregnancy. Pretty simple.

As for the pill, there's several different types. The most common is a 3 week cycle. You take the pill for 3 weeks, the leave a week and have your period then take it again. Its the most common because it keeps the woman in her natural cycle and doesn't **** up her body as much. There's still the chance of fertilisation, as with every form of contraception.

If you have 1 Million people using contraception completely correctly, both Condoms and the pill, statistically you're still going to have 1 baby born. It just happens.

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#78 to #77 - TheHutchie (01/10/2016) [-]

Ignoring the fact that, I assume due to poor wording, you have just said that being born is pathetic; a condom can split, or if you linger inside too long after, can slip off. It's quite common knowledge that no method of contraception is 100% effective. Assuming your 99.999% figure is correct (that's a high estimate now, but let's remember that it would have been even lower in the '90s) then I must be the 0.0001%.

I imagine here that your ignorance is non-malicious, and probably just stems from salty virgins not needing education on birth control.

0

#83 to #78 - chokebee (01/10/2016) [-]

Dood, don't bite the bait - the guy clearly never tried to use protection during sex/never had one.

+1

#84 to #83 - TheHutchie (01/10/2016) [-]

Hey, I've dropped some good advice for guys here and hit him with, not to toot my own horn, a good couple of disses. I'd say that's worth it. Ultimately, I'm on this site to amuse myself, and bait or not, dumb ******* like this make it that much easier.

0

#82 to #78 - commencingfailure (01/10/2016) [-]

You realize that 0,0001% then also needs to be EXACTLY one of those cases where there's absolutely zero proper communication between the guy and the girl for this to happen?

No need to get all pretentious and throw ad hominem, for it's really not difficult to see you're talking **** .

+7

#62 - aggronlover (01/10/2016) [-]

Look, I don't mean to play the devil's advocate here, but if you really don't want kids, anticonception is a thing. Now, I'm sure there are cases where a woman tricks a man or, in case of condom failure Because those things have a succes rating between 85 and 97 percent, they aren't 100 percent foolproof , sheer bad luck, but there are plenty of times when a man is responsible for accidentally getting a kid through sheer carelessness. And maybe you don't want to, but when that happens you have to take up your responsibility. Now sure, this image mainly decries the fact men have practically no say in matters of abortion, and on a larger scale it says "men are royally ****** by the law" and that's definitely correct, we do deserve more rights, but in the end the woman is the one carrying the child, the one who will have to give birth, and abortion is probably an uncomfortable subject for many I'm a guy and I'm openly disgusted at the idea of getting kids, but I'm assuming that when someone grows inside you you get attached to it The way I read it, it's implying that women should be forced to abort children if they don't wanna raise it alone, even in cases where the man is just as responsible for making the kid. I admit that laws should be more concise and give men more of a say, but in such examples where a man gets a kid through sheer carelessness and women don't feel comfortable with aborting, he should IMO just suck it up and be held accountable. That may not seem completely fair, but life's harsh that way.
Of course, in cases of condom failure or getting tricked into getting a kid, it should be an entirely different set of rules IMO, but I just don't like how this image implies would-be fathers should disregard their responsibilities because they don't want a kid.
Sorry for the long rant.

+2

#80 to #62 - shaddz (01/10/2016) [-]

Gonna risk the rage

your personal morality over abortion does not reduce the rights of the male party.

Both parties engage in the act. And before you make any objections in the case of decision making in the midst of intoxicants and/or hormones, men are affected too, so unless it was rape, well there's already laws about that.

Both parties know the risks of contraceptives, both are equally to blame.
The ONLY issue you have here is abortion, and guess what, regardless of your feelings it is a legal option. And regardless of your feelings it is still a choice, a choice the other party also has. So if one party wants it and the other doesn't, they accept responsibility, not the other party, you cannot force the other party to take responsibility because you don't like the idea of it.

He can't force you to abort it but you can't force him to look after it. unless the child was had under a mutual decision before a breakup in which case he has signed a birth certificate and declared responsibility, It is about equality, not getting your way.

Gonna risk the rage

your personal morality over abortion does not reduce the rights of the male party.

Both parties engage in the act. And before you make any objections in the case of decision making in the midst of intoxicants and/or hormones, men are affected too, so unless it was rape, well there's already laws about that.

Both parties know the risks of contraceptives, both are equally to blame.
The ONLY issue you have here is abortion, and guess what, regardless of your feelings it is a legal option. And regardless of your feelings it is still a choice, a choice the other party also has. So if one party wants it and the other doesn't, they accept responsibility, not the other party, you cannot force the other party to take responsibility because you don't like the idea of it.

He can't force you to abort it but you can't force him to look after it. unless the child was had under a mutual decision before a breakup in which case he has signed a birth certificate and declared responsibility, It is about equality, not getting your way.

-1

#92 to #80 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

Yeah, that sounds really fair to the human being made in the process..
Seriously, just because there's a legal option of terminating, doesn't mean who ever doesn't want the kid shouldn't be held responsible for making it.
The laws are there for the kid, not for the parents.
If you're not ready to have a kid, then don't have sex.
If you never want a kid, go get a vasectomy, if you change your mind you can have that undone.
A vasectomy is a legal option to not have a kid too, regardless of your feelings it is still a choice.
Be a ******* responsible adult is the point, and if you have a ******* child take care of it, even if that means giving the mother money so she can provide a decent life for them and have them go to school without holes in their clothes and **** .

+1

#123 to #92 - wertologist ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Are you saying you want a child to potentially grow up in a household that didn't want it or can't support it? Let's face it, people in poverty get around a lot because there isn't much for them to do. Do you really want the two people living in a run down apartment who do heroin to have kids when they themselves don't want any? There are a lot of people who don't want to be and/or not ready to be parents(either psychologically or economically).

Don't even say "well they can put the kid(s) up or adoption!" because just let me fill you in on the little details. The adoption system is complete **** . It's a huge process to even get approved and most families want their own children. There are way more kids than families who want to adopt so they try to toss them at the families as soon as they can. The thing is that that family can be abusive. My friend went through multiple homes where she was beaten and raped. Yes the adoption people check in once in a while, but they don't check every day and if they find out the home is bad they put you right back in the adoption center to wait for another(which could be a long time) and you're essentially back to square one. If a kid isn't adopted when they reach a certain age, they are booted out onto the street because the adoption centers can't support adults or all homeless people would flock to them.

Besides, like shaddz said this isn't a debate on your morals. This is a debate on equality. The fact is that right now the parenthood system is incredibly unfair. It doesn't matter what the father wants. It's in the hands of the mother. If she wants to keep it then the father is forced to pay. If she doesn't then they are fine. If he doesn't want to keep it, but she does? She keeps it and he pays. If he wants to keep it, but she doesn't? She doesn't keep it. It's a completely unfair decision. It doesn't matter what the father wants whatsoever. It's all up to the mother. She now holds the outcome of two(assuming it's a single child and not twins/triplets) when it should be a shared responsibility. For it to be fair, if the father doesn't want to keep it, then he can opt out. If they are both truly equally responsible then they should both have equal rights in the outcome.

"Be a ******* responsible adult is the point, and if you have a ******* child take care of it, even if that means giving the mother money so she can provide a decent life for them and have them go to school without holes in their clothes and **** ."

(cont)

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#124 to #123 - wertologist ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

You're grossly misunderstanding how ****** people can be. First of all, a lot of people who end up having children are absolute pieces of trash. There is an asshole on my street who is the physical representation of white trash redneck. Beats his kids and his wives(big shocker, he's had a few). He is also very short tempered and violent. He starts bar fights and assaults people. A few years ago he ripped this giant of a man out of his car and relentlessly punched his face because they guy was driving on Halloween and his family was in the middle of the road. The giant guy just stared at him and took the punches when he could have ripped him in two, but he didn't like violence. The trash guy spends more money on himself than the kids and hits them if they say anything he doesn't like. There are tons of people like that and you want to force them to be part of a child's life? Also, not everyone can afford children. What about two homeless people who shacked up and got prego? Who pays for and raises it? Don't say adoption because I already explained the flaws in it and it only creates a whole new problem. Being a responsible adult is not a law. You can't go to jail for swinging on the swing and refusing to get a job. You can't force people to do that so why would you just assume every parent would be a " ******* responsible adult" when you snap your fingers? It doesn't matter what your opinions are, parents are going to be as responsible or irresponsible as they damn well please. Your "advice" will mean jack **** when it comes to people who simply don't care. Another problem is that the mother has no obligation to spend all the child support money on the children. She could stick tot he bare minimum and spend the rest on herself. People also can skip out on paying child support if they don't have a job. My dad owes my mom over a decade of child support for two kids so obviously people get away with not paying.

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#97 to #92 - shaddz (01/10/2016) [-]

what kid, we are talking early stages where abortion is an option. your own moral preference doesn't change the law, until THAT debate is settled, that is how it is, and should be, your opinion is just that, an opinion. Try learn science before you decide what defines a life as separate from a developing bundle of cells and exactly how they differentiate at that stage.

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#112 to #92 - tripelace (01/10/2016) [-]

Whether you think it's wrong or not, the fact is that it's a legal option. If someone is getting an abortion it's for a reason, and whether that reason is stupid or not is irrelevant. I believe that if someone isn't ready to be a parent whether they're too young, it wasn't consensual, or if they're just stupid that human in there doesn't deserve to grow up around those kind of people.

+7

#40 - fukkentyranitar ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

If my dad decided to leave me and my mom because he didn't want me, I'd track him down and break a few of his ribs. Paying the bills was enough of a struggle with both parents and 4 jobs between them. If you don't want to risk getting a girl pregnant, DON'T STICK YOUR DICK IN HER COOCHIE. No one has the right to go around bussin random nuts and leaving the kids out to dry cause they felt 'unprepared' or 'didn't want to start a family'. Saying you didn't want the kid after they're born is just irresponsible and selfish.

If my dad decided to leave me and my mom because he didn't want me, I'd track him down and break a few of his ribs. Paying the bills was enough of a struggle with both parents and 4 jobs between them. If you don't want to risk getting a girl pregnant, DON'T STICK YOUR DICK IN HER COOCHIE. No one has the right to go around bussin random nuts and leaving the kids out to dry cause they felt 'unprepared' or 'didn't want to start a family'. Saying you didn't want the kid after they're born is just irresponsible and selfish.

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#85 to #40 - choobe ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

If you reverse the gender of your main argument, you sound like a abstinence supporter. "If a girl didn't want a child, she shouldn't have sex, therefore we don't need abortion!"

If you're supportive until the kid is born or too late for abortion , then yes, you should be forced to pay, but if not, I don't see why you should be forced, she knew you didn't want it, so it's her responsibility. And abortion isn't the only way out if you're against it, there's also adoption.

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#46 to #40 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

"If you don't want to risk getting a girl pregnant, DON'T STICK YOUR DICK IN HER COOCHIE"

If you don't want the sun to hurt your eyes, don't go outside ever.

>your retarded logic.

+2

#126 - evilanakie (01/10/2016) [-]

guys guys guys
if you dont want to get someone pregnant
stick it in the ass

+2

#86 - klick ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

It's not about the woman. It's about the child.

It's not about the woman. It's about the child.

+2

#2 - platinumaltaria ONLINE (01/09/2016) [-]

Apparently men are responsible for the whereabouts of every individual sperm... up to and including when said sperm is LITERALLY STOLEN OUT OF A CONDOM.

0

#17 to #2 - goodhomer ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3385604/End-vasectomy-New-implant-allows-men-turn-fertility-flick-switch-inside-scrotum.html

+1

#132 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

Though it can be persued usually when you sign over parental right there is no child support. My biological father signed his over so my step-dad could adopt me, but I admit my mom was more reasonable then a lot of women and when he decided not to be involved anymore (I was 2) she made it clear she didn't want his money, he just can't change his mind any try to be involved again(he did and blamed my mom for "keeping me from him" and left a year later) it's not good to have parents walk in and out of your life all the time. So honestly on both ends, if you don't want kids with somone (even as a future possibly) don't screw them. It'll **** three lives up for a lousy lay.

+1

#120 - dudemiesterman ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

So wear a condom. If you buy a reputable brand, they barely ever break. You can't always trust a bitch is telling the truth about being on birth control, and if you know full well that she isn't and you have unprotected sex, then you're an idiot. Granted, it is ****** up that men always get treated as the only responsible party when it comes to unplanned children, but you can avoid it in the vast majority of cases.

+1

#114 - anon (01/10/2016) [-]

There's literally no excuse to get pregnant if you don't want to.
Condoms hardly ever split when used correctly, so all these 'muh condom split' are just retards.
Even if you're like me and don't use condoms because they're disgusting and make sex feel **** , there are multiple ways to not get pregnant.
Injection, coil, implant, pill and all of it is free in several countries.
Why not use more than one method?

Like really, it's a massive thing to **** up and be left with an 'accident' that will ruin your life forever unless you have it aborted, and then it's too much trouble when you could've prevented it in the first place.

+1

#104 - tyrson ONLINE (01/10/2016) [-]

Gender specific parental rights only matter when they're in disagreement. So if she wants to keep it, and he doesn't then she should raise the child alone, without help. Likewise if he wants to keep it, and she doesn't, then he should raise the child alone, without her help. The problem is that the man doesn't have any right to guarantee the birth of the child, since it's in her body and is considered part of her rights.
And that's the unfortunate situation, that likely won't change in the near future. They can't give the man rights over the woman's body and the child inside it, so even though it WOULD be fair, perhaps, it won't ever come about

+1

#102 - darksideofthebeast (01/10/2016) [-]

"Men shouldn't have to deal with the risks of sex because they're just primal beings who only want sex"
Sheesh, you've gone so far you're starting to sound like the feminists...

+1

#101 - isolovegames (01/10/2016) [-]

Only once have I been faced with a girl who tried to pull that **** , I gave her the choice of a swig of Smirnoff and a swift punch or me leaving, after some screaming at each other and **** being thrown I left and said nothing to her afterwards. Checked up on her recently and she has 4 kids and is "going steady" with some lanky black guy in a dumpy ass government housing complex.

Only once have I been faced with a girl who tried to pull that **** , I gave her the choice of a swig of Smirnoff and a swift punch or me leaving, after some screaming at each other and **** being thrown I left and said nothing to her afterwards. Checked up on her recently and she has 4 kids and is "going steady" with some lanky black guy in a dumpy ass government housing complex.

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