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#381 to #83
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topperharly ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-] just because you get a saber through the chest and fall the force knows where and the planet gets destroyed doesnt mean you are dead.....i think he is but maybe they do something like "heyheyhey he is alive bitches" spoiler for sw7
#1
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sircool (01/03/2016) [-] "That's not how the force works" sums up Rey's character abilities
"So they made a another one?" sums up the plot/movie itself.
"So they made a another one?" sums up the plot/movie itself.
#56 to #1
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hockeykicksass (01/03/2016) [-] www.inquisitr.com/2649390/star-wars-rey-theory-claims-to-know-who-she-is-and-it-will-floor-you/
here's an interesting theory that could explain Rey's abilities
here's an interesting theory that could explain Rey's abilities
#70 to #56
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zaphodcoolfrood (01/03/2016) [-]
First guy in the comments of the article debunks it pretty well, Anakins already had his redemption, no need for another even more symbolic one.
#273 to #56
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nickelakon (01/04/2016) [-] Every paragraph that person lost more and more credibility
"Rey was surely a fan favorite..." Traytor was obviously the fan favorite
"All the sexist who didnt believe a female could carry the lead role..." I dont have to explain this one
"...it was clear he was commited to it, which means no love, hate etc." Quite obviously never looked more into star wars then possibly watching the prequels and episode 6.
This entire article is complete nonsense.
"Rey was surely a fan favorite..." Traytor was obviously the fan favorite
"All the sexist who didnt believe a female could carry the lead role..." I dont have to explain this one
"...it was clear he was commited to it, which means no love, hate etc." Quite obviously never looked more into star wars then possibly watching the prequels and episode 6.
This entire article is complete nonsense.
#169 to #56
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obviousxplains (01/04/2016) [-] the award for person who liked the movie but then litterally everyone point out how terrible it was and they felt stupid so they spent time trying to explain away plot holes goes to--
#75 to #1
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] I still think it's far too early to judge Rey's abilities in the force, I think when her parentage is revealed it will seem a lot more fitting.
#81 to #78
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] True, but if she is Luke's daughter, and Luke trained her before dropping her on Jakku, it's possible that she isn't using these powers for the first time
#86 to #84
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] Well she obviously knows melee combat from using the staff growing up on Jakku, I was referring to her force abilities, since Jedi meant to be trained from a young age. Listen, I completely agree that if she was never trained or had no force-sensitive ancestors, then it's BS, but it's Star Wars. None of the movies really stand alone.
#96 to #90
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] If you watch the movie 5 times like I have because I'm a ******* neckbeard faggot you notice Rey holds and swings the lightsaber really oddly, as if she knows how to fight, but just not with that...which is exactly the case. And also if Kylo wasn't shot by the bowcaster AND getting over the fact that he just killed Indiana Jones then she wouldn't have been able to beat him.
#110 to #104
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] She wasn't really losing from the start either, they were pretty even for the most part, Rey was using quick movement to her advantage, as it was an advantage Kylo didn't have. I'm also curious as to whether Kylo knew Rey cough Cousin cough and was therefore going easy on her...I doubt it, his attacks don't seem to be holding back, but when he offers to teach her...I don't know. Again, I think all of our problems with the movie will be answered in 8. My personal biggest problem with this one is that it doesn't stand alone as well as ANH or TPM did. ANH's only loose end was Vader, and if it hadn't been for the preexisting three movies, TPM has no significant loose ends except for the Emperor.
#119 to #115
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] I think stabbed them in their sleep would fit his character very well IMO
#264 to #119
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paynetrayne (01/04/2016) [-] More like sliced their faces off in a heated argument that he turned into one of his famous temper tantrums lol
#171 to #104
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
She holds herself as well as you'd expect from her proficiency from her staff. When she has the force moment it's more like when they had a mental battle than it is a sudden 'unlock.' After that moment she can read him and so she gains the advantage from having force-enhanced telegraphing capabilities.
#284 to #90
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ilovehitler (01/04/2016) [-] Could be that it wasn't really her doing it at all, but Luke.
We know he's incredibly powerful in the force.
We know that you don't have to be near the target of your force to use it.
Could be that Luke is using Rey as a tool of sorts to destroy the Empire. As he's far closer to the darkside than he should be, we know he's not above using someone.
We know he's incredibly powerful in the force.
We know that you don't have to be near the target of your force to use it.
Could be that Luke is using Rey as a tool of sorts to destroy the Empire. As he's far closer to the darkside than he should be, we know he's not above using someone.
#122 to #75
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thumbsdenied (01/03/2016) [-] SPOILERS
Luke definetly is her father, i think her mother is Mara. Lukes saber gave her the flashback and kylo being in reys head spoke of her seeing an island and the ocean where in the end luke would be found on.
Luke definetly is her father, i think her mother is Mara. Lukes saber gave her the flashback and kylo being in reys head spoke of her seeing an island and the ocean where in the end luke would be found on.
#139 to #122
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] I think you're right about Mara Jade in the same way Kylo Ren was Jacen Solo. It'll be basically the same character, but a different name.
#165 to #164
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captinchikin (01/04/2016) [-] Nah, read the comments below. It's also pretty immature to thumb people down when we're just talking about what we think might happen in a movie but whatever
#189 to #173
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captinchikin (01/04/2016) [-] I really don't care, that's why I said whatever. The fact that you can't argue a point but instead display your disagreement with thumbs really shows who the bigger man is. I'm not gonna lose sleep over pixels on a screen man.
#195 to #189
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
You seem not to grasp the basic principle of a like/dislike system.
Red means that whomever is reading your comment does not like it. It's not some petty currency. The sheer fact that you felt it needed bitching about and this 'bigger man' ******** simply shows that actually you do care.
Grow up.
Red means that whomever is reading your comment does not like it. It's not some petty currency. The sheer fact that you felt it needed bitching about and this 'bigger man' ******** simply shows that actually you do care.
Grow up.
#197 to #195
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captinchikin (01/04/2016) [-] No I'm just actually curious about what the opinion of the guy hiding behind "anonymous" is, like, why does he disagree with literally every reply I've made to sircool? I just don't understand. If sircool can be mature about it, why can't you/him/whoever the anon is?
#203 to #201
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captinchikin (01/04/2016) [-] Then why is he even reading the thread? If he disagrees with the entire conversation, than what is the point?
#205 to #204
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captinchikin (01/04/2016) [-] Welp, I guess that's the end of the conversation then. I really need to stop entering these SW threads on FJ, always ends up with people being angry at each other instead of actually talking...not saying that's not partially my fault in this situation, but whatever.
#242 to #230
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crlmsonhazard (01/04/2016) [-] the only joke I remember is Pinocchio lying about wearing a thong thong
#330 to #242
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deckbox (01/04/2016) [-] **deckbox used "*roll picture*"**
**deckbox rolled image**Sad but true, The story was nice, it introduced Puss in boots which was cool and had his kitten eyes gag, I think a better story but weaker humour than first one.
Third blergh, fourth good too but was pretty much done at that stage
**deckbox rolled image**Sad but true, The story was nice, it introduced Puss in boots which was cool and had his kitten eyes gag, I think a better story but weaker humour than first one.
Third blergh, fourth good too but was pretty much done at that stage
#225 to #7
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kez (01/04/2016) [-]
To be fair American films have been known to be lacking the last 10 years.
Its the 2nd main reason behind the boom behind korean films getting a lot of attention outside of Korea. top Korean films are so ******* good.
European films are also starting to hit other countries because of it and UK films are starting to hit US audiences more frequently.
Hollywood is pretty notorious for just churning out average films.
They do drive a lot of global culture though. Even if a lot of its not highly regarded
Its the 2nd main reason behind the boom behind korean films getting a lot of attention outside of Korea. top Korean films are so ******* good.
European films are also starting to hit other countries because of it and UK films are starting to hit US audiences more frequently.
Hollywood is pretty notorious for just churning out average films.
They do drive a lot of global culture though. Even if a lot of its not highly regarded
#245 to #7
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cptsweatpants (01/04/2016) [-] Sure Hollywood movies still go around the globe, but that's just habit more than anything else. They have the cash to force them big, focusing on visuals more than actual quality. A trend that fully began with avatar. Possibly to change though, once people get sick of it, and oh god are they starting to. Just like cinderella movies, gangster movies, westerns, "family" comedies etc. it's just how the hollywood operates.
To say america drives any sort of culture is incredibly silly. They've been stagnating on a dead point for more than a decade. Patriotism is not a culture. There's no new trends and fads coming out the USA for years and years now, only 30 years ago here in central europe we've been trying our best to be like america. Now we're wroking very hard on the opposite.
To say america drives any sort of culture is incredibly silly. They've been stagnating on a dead point for more than a decade. Patriotism is not a culture. There's no new trends and fads coming out the USA for years and years now, only 30 years ago here in central europe we've been trying our best to be like america. Now we're wroking very hard on the opposite.
#10 to #8
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battletechmech (01/03/2016) [-] >eurofag thinking that culture doesn't include the sheer mass of american companies in their own country
#16 to #9
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dailymurica (01/03/2016) [-] I dont even need to talk about it,you ridicule yourselves just fine
Mmmmmmurica!
Mmmmmmurica!
#98 to #71
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dailymurica (01/03/2016) [-] Annoying to Muricans because they cant handle criticism,only do it.
Biggest hypocrytes of this planet
Biggest hypocrytes of this planet
#121 to #98
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crazypat (01/03/2016) [-] "I like to be an elitist asshole and say other nations suck when I'm actually a detriment to my own." that is all I heard.
Inb4 you say "I'm a nuclear engineer" or some other stupid lie.
Probably upset cause you came to America looking to impress the ladies with your foreign culture and they ******* ignored you.
Inb4 you say "I'm a nuclear engineer" or some other stupid lie.
Probably upset cause you came to America looking to impress the ladies with your foreign culture and they ******* ignored you.
#194 to #155
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captainfuckitall (01/04/2016) [-] Pro-tip: When people dislike you and throw your opinions out, it isn't because "Well they just know I'm right and it makes them upset", it's because you're wrong, and not only are you wrong, but you're an asshole about it.
Hopefully that explains many of the situations that happen to you in your daily life.
People aren't thumbing you down here because 'hurr durr, they just don't get it', they're thumbing you down because you're being retarded.
And you ARE wrong, by the way. Culture IS majority behaviour/opinions/likeness. I have no idea what "mass compatibility" is supposed to mean, but if you're just trying to say "Culture has nothing to do with what the majority of the populace likes and wants", well then it's very clear WHY people call you retarded.
Hopefully that explains many of the situations that happen to you in your daily life.
People aren't thumbing you down here because 'hurr durr, they just don't get it', they're thumbing you down because you're being retarded.
And you ARE wrong, by the way. Culture IS majority behaviour/opinions/likeness. I have no idea what "mass compatibility" is supposed to mean, but if you're just trying to say "Culture has nothing to do with what the majority of the populace likes and wants", well then it's very clear WHY people call you retarded.
#369 to #194
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kanedam ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-]
it seems my point is not getting across. and i dont really care about thumbs, because they dont show if someone is right or wrong. they just show if other people like what someone said.
the majority isnt a sign for quality. thats what i'm saying. it shows market value, not artistic value or cultural benefit.
or would you say a mainstream pop song automatically is the best kind of music with the most cultural and artistic value because it is in the charts and millions of people like it?
is a movie a masterpiece just because it broke another inbox record?
if you truely think "yes" than you can say i'm retarded. but i dont think so, because eventhough mainstream stuff often brings in a lot of money it doesnt mean its good. sure, one can like it. but the artists get forgotten and the movies too, they arent remembered as something special, or anything that really was good or a milestone in their respective field.
are those harem and shonen anime (like naruto and such) better than lesser known anime just because more people like it and brought in more money? from a market view yes, but from an artistic view thats not the way it is.
just because a lot of people like something or it made a lot of money doesnt mean its good in an artistic view. thats all i'm saying.
the majority isnt a sign for quality. thats what i'm saying. it shows market value, not artistic value or cultural benefit.
or would you say a mainstream pop song automatically is the best kind of music with the most cultural and artistic value because it is in the charts and millions of people like it?
is a movie a masterpiece just because it broke another inbox record?
if you truely think "yes" than you can say i'm retarded. but i dont think so, because eventhough mainstream stuff often brings in a lot of money it doesnt mean its good. sure, one can like it. but the artists get forgotten and the movies too, they arent remembered as something special, or anything that really was good or a milestone in their respective field.
are those harem and shonen anime (like naruto and such) better than lesser known anime just because more people like it and brought in more money? from a market view yes, but from an artistic view thats not the way it is.
just because a lot of people like something or it made a lot of money doesnt mean its good in an artistic view. thats all i'm saying.
#373 to #369
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captainfuckitall (01/04/2016) [-] Yes and yes. The problem here is that you seem to imply that X thing is good because it has some hidden value that only you can see, or that can only be seen if you look hard enough, but 'intrinsic value' or 'cultural benefit' itself is subjective.
I'm sure **** tastes nice depending upon its type, but just because you see that it can doesn't make you a chef, it just means it suits your fancy.
Just as well, that's why we have something called 'judges', people "trained" (as far as training can go) TO find something's real value even in subjective mediums, hence why they are the ones giving awards and you are not.
Of course a mass majority liking something doesn't mean it's good, but YOU liking something on an individual basis doesn't mean it's 'good' either. Dig it? Just because something DOESN'T make a lot of money, is rather unknown, or has a simple cult following doesn't imply an undervalued greatness, it's just something that appeals to you.
You're retarded.
I'm sure **** tastes nice depending upon its type, but just because you see that it can doesn't make you a chef, it just means it suits your fancy.
Just as well, that's why we have something called 'judges', people "trained" (as far as training can go) TO find something's real value even in subjective mediums, hence why they are the ones giving awards and you are not.
Of course a mass majority liking something doesn't mean it's good, but YOU liking something on an individual basis doesn't mean it's 'good' either. Dig it? Just because something DOESN'T make a lot of money, is rather unknown, or has a simple cult following doesn't imply an undervalued greatness, it's just something that appeals to you.
You're retarded.
#375 to #373
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kanedam ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-]
and where did i say that my taste was the right one? or that i didnt like the mainstream stuff?
thats why i call you idiot. i never implied that. i never said it. there is nowhere a "but my taste is better!" or anything. there is nowhere a "i think that and that is better" or such stuff.
i was especially talking about judges and people trained to find values in artistic fields. and often things that make a lot of money or are wide-spread arent considered masterpieces or good in the artistic value.
all i said was that having something deliver a lot of stuff doesnt mean the stuff it delivers is good. i also already stated that i never said my eprsonal taste is against it.
all i did was point out that just because a country produces a lot of stuff and washed over all other markets with it, doesnt mean that the products are better than other countries.
thats why i call you idiot. i never implied that. i never said it. there is nowhere a "but my taste is better!" or anything. there is nowhere a "i think that and that is better" or such stuff.
i was especially talking about judges and people trained to find values in artistic fields. and often things that make a lot of money or are wide-spread arent considered masterpieces or good in the artistic value.
all i said was that having something deliver a lot of stuff doesnt mean the stuff it delivers is good. i also already stated that i never said my eprsonal taste is against it.
all i did was point out that just because a country produces a lot of stuff and washed over all other markets with it, doesnt mean that the products are better than other countries.
#377 to #375
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captainfuckitall (01/04/2016) [-] You're focusing on people saying whether it's in your tastes or not when 3/4 of my paragraph was about something entirely different and just using you as an example. Stop sperging out.
#234 to #18
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frenzysalem (01/04/2016) [-] It's not that the masses have bad taste, it's that the masses refuse to watch anything before the era of 100% CGI movies. Show any American teenager a black and white/silent/foreign film and they instantly shut down because all people THINK they care about are big explosions and fancy effects. I used to be that person until a friend of mine sat me down and showed me how amazing cinema is outside of American movies made past 2000. People need to get over the idea that a movie is bad because it's black and white or foreign. If you look up ANY list of the ten greatest movies ever made as voted on by directors or film critics, I 100% GUARANTEE YOU NONE OF THEM WILL BE FROM THE 2000s. WHY? Because the 2000s have arguably brought upon the worlds worst decade for movies ever. And don't think I'm saying this because I'm some elitist hipster douche. It's just facts. Producers and directors have been distracted by new advances in technology to the point where they substitute good writing/acting/cinematography with fancy effects and don't even realize it. And don't get me wrong, it's amazing what new affects we have available and they all look really cool, but you should never abuse the **** out of it to the point where you shoot an entire movie in a massive green room. That's just lazy, uncreative, and lacks passion. Film making is an art form just like painting or music and people need to start treating it that way. Leave the art made behind computers to video game producers. Bring back lighting and set design and cinematography and costume design to the world of film and America can start making movies great again.
#300 to #234
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drldrl (01/04/2016) [-] I've seen a lot of old and foreign movies with ****** acting. They both have lower budgets unless they're the best of either category. Lower budgets mean lesser actors.
Take Chinese martial arts movies. I've been watching a lot lately, and more than half have actors that exaggerate everything to comical levels. Though some of the more popular ones were very good. And almost every old one I've seen is absolutely horrible.
Take Chinese martial arts movies. I've been watching a lot lately, and more than half have actors that exaggerate everything to comical levels. Though some of the more popular ones were very good. And almost every old one I've seen is absolutely horrible.
#370 to #300
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kanedam ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-]
to be fair, the exaggeration in those movies is wanted because its a cultural thing.
even the way people walk was in chinese theater already showing what character they were playing, as they had different ways of walking for the hero, the villain, the comic side kick, the idiot, the master, and so on...
even the way people walk was in chinese theater already showing what character they were playing, as they had different ways of walking for the hero, the villain, the comic side kick, the idiot, the master, and so on...
#357 to #300
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frenzysalem (01/04/2016) [-] I'm not saying every old/ foreign movie is good. I'm saying maybe if people looked at, oh, the 110 year history of film BEFORE the year 2000, they might find something they like. And to be fair, you kind of have to take kung fu movies and the like a little less seriously. Those are mostly made to show off fancy coriography and not as much cinematic value. Much like you can't take Adam West's Batman seriously in the same aspect, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. But all I have to say is you've probably been watching the wrong stuff. Each decade has probably at least 10 movies that can be considered timeless classics. In the past FIFTEEN YEARS there's been probably 7 or 8. And that's like, LotR and SW type stuff with sequels. And the best directors can work with a low budget. That's the thing. If someone insists they need a higher budget or else the movie can't be made, they're probably relying way too heavily on needless special effects. Movies like Cat People and Eraserhead had pretty low budgets and they did great and jumpstarted their respective directors career.
#38 to #23
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vacillantfall (01/03/2016) [-] 80% of the time is CGI, big pr campaign about not CGI. Wow Didnee good job.
#282 to #198
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ilovehitler (01/04/2016) [-] I'm not the anon, but I agree completely, so
OH NOOOO NOT CGI! I HATE TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS! I WANT THEM TO HAVE ****** COSTUMES AND SETS!! BOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO
OH NOOOO NOT CGI! I HATE TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS! I WANT THEM TO HAVE ****** COSTUMES AND SETS!! BOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO
#135 to #2
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thumbsdenied (01/03/2016) [-] -New actors was more that you dont familarise them with other stuff they have acted in. Kylo ren (adam driver) has acted in girls atleast, if i remember correctly. its also a huge risk to get unseen new actors into a movie as big as star wars. I thought they did great, much more convincing than young teen anakin.
- plenty of cgi wich is a stable in fantasy, but quite alot of robotics and costumes aswell.
- eh kinda, but alot of new elements.
- he is interesting, he is reckless as a sith, makes alot of mistakes, but he is only a apprentice wich makes it acceptable. Hes feared because his powers and dangerous because hes unpredictable with his anger, but you can see hes not very respected in the empire as a high ranking member, as hes mocked by the empire agent. So he still has plenty of growing up to be the the calm and collective respected sith vader was. Hes still battling the light side because that was most of his life. He didnt suffer so much bad things as anakin did growing up. hes also using jedi force abilities because i think he hasnt mastered much of the dark side yet.
- plenty of cgi wich is a stable in fantasy, but quite alot of robotics and costumes aswell.
- eh kinda, but alot of new elements.
- he is interesting, he is reckless as a sith, makes alot of mistakes, but he is only a apprentice wich makes it acceptable. Hes feared because his powers and dangerous because hes unpredictable with his anger, but you can see hes not very respected in the empire as a high ranking member, as hes mocked by the empire agent. So he still has plenty of growing up to be the the calm and collective respected sith vader was. Hes still battling the light side because that was most of his life. He didnt suffer so much bad things as anakin did growing up. hes also using jedi force abilities because i think he hasnt mastered much of the dark side yet.
#353 to #130
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ledneustadt (01/04/2016) [-] I've asked it before and I'll ask it again: why is this a continuous trap card???
#364 to #2
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putincanmeltcrimea (01/04/2016) [-] -actors were good, good performance, great exchanges mostly
-cgi was amazing you cant complain about that
-yeah the plot was **** and full of holes
-i didnt like the villain but at least he was original
-leave disney alone
i get why you were disappointed, i was too, but keep your arguments straight
-cgi was amazing you cant complain about that
-yeah the plot was **** and full of holes
-i didnt like the villain but at least he was original
-leave disney alone
i get why you were disappointed, i was too, but keep your arguments straight
#39 to #34
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dailymurica (01/03/2016) [-] They even got rid of Ford. Probably he told them he was through with their **** since he is famous,rich and old.
He went there having a fun time,he didnt even try to act,it came natural.
In my opinion the plot was utter **** ,but then again i dont give a **** of what the nerdraged fans say. Also i hated Han solo for some reason,i dont know why.I didnt like him one bit in the movie,i liked Chew more.
Good ridance.
Now its Luke's turn to make some money out of old movies.
Fans like it you see...
He went there having a fun time,he didnt even try to act,it came natural.
In my opinion the plot was utter **** ,but then again i dont give a **** of what the nerdraged fans say. Also i hated Han solo for some reason,i dont know why.I didnt like him one bit in the movie,i liked Chew more.
Good ridance.
Now its Luke's turn to make some money out of old movies.
Fans like it you see...
#73 to #39
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vacillantfall (01/03/2016) [-] Oh. I'm not a fan after that tragedy of a film. Han prob did it for some extra $$. I mean, the main character and that girl were piss poor.
#35 to #34
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dailymurica (01/03/2016) [-] Because its Star Wars and Star wars content must be praised like a ******** .
Personally,i found the animated clone wars series a lot more enjoyable. idr the name
Personally,i found the animated clone wars series a lot more enjoyable. idr the name
#37 to #35
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vacillantfall (01/03/2016) [-] Same, however I didn't enjoy it. Give me flak, episode 2 was the best. I dont care that it's all CGI. Can't make that statement anymore lol. And Star Wars community is worse than the undertale community. in my opinion. I was interested in the new SW but the over saturation destroyed it. Got tired of hearing about it sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much before it even came out. I don't care if Han dies. The stupid ****** didn't even know how to properly use the force. A ******* storm trooper being something other than what his "role in the galaxy" or some **** is supposed to be. Even if it was a better character or anything or even a legitimately good movie. The hype absolutely ruined any interest I had. **** companies advertising something to death.
#40 to #37
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dailymurica (01/03/2016) [-] It got promoted so much that fans WANTED to like it.
They didnt want to let themselves down so they convinced themselves the movie was fine and MAYBE the next one is better
They didnt want to let themselves down so they convinced themselves the movie was fine and MAYBE the next one is better
#281 to #2
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mcmanybucks (01/04/2016) [-] full cgi? oh im sorry, it was a bit tough to call in actual aliens.
at least the storm troopers arent cgi though, ******* Attack of the Clones..
at least the storm troopers arent cgi though, ******* Attack of the Clones..
#53 to #2
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enlightednatzie ONLINE (01/03/2016) [-] I thought the villain looked like an uglier version of andy samberg.
#202 to #1
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ripgeckosncherios (01/04/2016) [-]
Wait whaaaaat?
You are complaining about Rey's stuff?
What did she do with the force? She managed to pull a lightsaber, which Luke also did with pretty much 0 training (1 day or something with Ben Kenobi on the Millenium Falcon). She also used Force persuasion on a Stormtrooper, who by definitition is brainwashed and therefore probably mentally reaaaaaaally weak, which imho isn't really a lot more impressive than Luke being able to deflect Laserbeams that travel at lightspeed while blindfolded. Reason, if one is needed why she is so good, could be the mindinvasion thingy we see Kylo do. She felt the Force through him, because their minds were connected or something similar. And no, I wouldn't consider beating him back during that scene a force mastery, as imho it seems like something that depends on willpower and not forcepower, but we don't know a lot about it...
Which brings me to Kylo Ren. I could understand far more if you complained about his forcepowers, because he does left and right stuff we have never seen before. Stop lasers in midair? Easy. Invade the mind of others (wow finding the rebell base would be so easy for Vader with that). Knock people unconscious with it? Check. paralyse people as opposed to just holding their throat? EEEEEEEEEasy.
You are complaining about Rey's stuff?
What did she do with the force? She managed to pull a lightsaber, which Luke also did with pretty much 0 training (1 day or something with Ben Kenobi on the Millenium Falcon). She also used Force persuasion on a Stormtrooper, who by definitition is brainwashed and therefore probably mentally reaaaaaaally weak, which imho isn't really a lot more impressive than Luke being able to deflect Laserbeams that travel at lightspeed while blindfolded. Reason, if one is needed why she is so good, could be the mindinvasion thingy we see Kylo do. She felt the Force through him, because their minds were connected or something similar. And no, I wouldn't consider beating him back during that scene a force mastery, as imho it seems like something that depends on willpower and not forcepower, but we don't know a lot about it...
Which brings me to Kylo Ren. I could understand far more if you complained about his forcepowers, because he does left and right stuff we have never seen before. Stop lasers in midair? Easy. Invade the mind of others (wow finding the rebell base would be so easy for Vader with that). Knock people unconscious with it? Check. paralyse people as opposed to just holding their throat? EEEEEEEEEasy.
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greyblade (01/04/2016) [-]
okay, list of things rey did with no apparent experience/training
- Flew the Flacon, at a level of competence that allowed her to not only evade, but help destroy two Tie/fo Fighters.
- Force Pulled a lightsaber from another highly powerful and well trained force user
- Force Persuaded an initially resistant target with no training whatsover - in mind tricks or force use in general
- Fought off a highly powerful and well trained Lightsaber duelist despite having never held a lightsaber before in her life.
also, luke wasn't shown force-pulling a saber until episode 5 - 4 years after he discovered his force sensitivity, giving him plenty of time to practice what is a pretty basic technique.
all examples of mind trick we've seen being used have been by highly-competent Jedi - the least experienced would be Luke in ep VI, and he's clearly achieved a decent level of mastery - certainly one befitting a Jedi Knight.
On top of this, mind trick is a whole different kettle of fish to force pull. force pull is one of the most basic tricks, it's just raw power and direction. mind trick is incredible subtle, and has almost never been used without years of training. the only example I can think of where an untrained jedi used mind-trick successfully was Corran Horn - but his family is strange - the men are incapable of using physical force powers (push, pull, etc) but are exceptionally gifted with things like mind trick.
also, the blaster bolts Luke deflected weren't travelling at light speed. blaster bolts consist of small pockets of gas which are superheated and then propelled towards an enemy - not simple laser beams. as such, blaster bolts actually move significantly slower than bullets.
Kylo Rens powers - while mostly unseen - are less inexplicable.
- Freezing the blaster bolt: cool, and new, but no reason it can't be done.
- Invading the minds of others: not all that new. usually done by sith, rather than jedi. Revan used a variant of this to obtain knowledge of the Rakatan Language on Lehon.
- Knocking people unconcious: this has been done before, and it's pretty basic. far less impressive than mind-trick, for example.
- Paralysing enemies: probably just the same as the blaster-freezing technique.
so, in total, we've got two pretty easily-explained powers and the blaster-freezing stunt, which is pretty new.
but the thing to remember here: Kylo is not like Rey
things Kylo has that Rey doens't:
- Exceptionally strong connection to the force: we know Kylo has this, Rey hasn't been confirmed.
- Several years of training under a Jedi Master: Kylo was taught by Luke for several years.
- Several years of training under a Sith Lord/Other Master level Dark Jedi: Snoke is clearly on par with or stronger than Luke (or Luke would've beaten his ass to Byss and back by now). Kylo was (and still sort of is) his apprentice.
- a span of nearly two decades in which he was aware of, and able to experiment with, his force abilities: even without teching, Kylo's had nearly 20 years to test things out and practice his skills. that's plenty to discover a new skill or practice a taught one.
and most of the above applies to his lightsaber skills as much as it does his force abilities.
simply put, I'm not saying that Rey's skills are more impressive than Kylo's - but Kylo has a reasonable excuse for knowing his. Rey doesn't.
- Flew the Flacon, at a level of competence that allowed her to not only evade, but help destroy two Tie/fo Fighters.
- Force Pulled a lightsaber from another highly powerful and well trained force user
- Force Persuaded an initially resistant target with no training whatsover - in mind tricks or force use in general
- Fought off a highly powerful and well trained Lightsaber duelist despite having never held a lightsaber before in her life.
also, luke wasn't shown force-pulling a saber until episode 5 - 4 years after he discovered his force sensitivity, giving him plenty of time to practice what is a pretty basic technique.
all examples of mind trick we've seen being used have been by highly-competent Jedi - the least experienced would be Luke in ep VI, and he's clearly achieved a decent level of mastery - certainly one befitting a Jedi Knight.
On top of this, mind trick is a whole different kettle of fish to force pull. force pull is one of the most basic tricks, it's just raw power and direction. mind trick is incredible subtle, and has almost never been used without years of training. the only example I can think of where an untrained jedi used mind-trick successfully was Corran Horn - but his family is strange - the men are incapable of using physical force powers (push, pull, etc) but are exceptionally gifted with things like mind trick.
also, the blaster bolts Luke deflected weren't travelling at light speed. blaster bolts consist of small pockets of gas which are superheated and then propelled towards an enemy - not simple laser beams. as such, blaster bolts actually move significantly slower than bullets.
Kylo Rens powers - while mostly unseen - are less inexplicable.
- Freezing the blaster bolt: cool, and new, but no reason it can't be done.
- Invading the minds of others: not all that new. usually done by sith, rather than jedi. Revan used a variant of this to obtain knowledge of the Rakatan Language on Lehon.
- Knocking people unconcious: this has been done before, and it's pretty basic. far less impressive than mind-trick, for example.
- Paralysing enemies: probably just the same as the blaster-freezing technique.
so, in total, we've got two pretty easily-explained powers and the blaster-freezing stunt, which is pretty new.
but the thing to remember here: Kylo is not like Rey
things Kylo has that Rey doens't:
- Exceptionally strong connection to the force: we know Kylo has this, Rey hasn't been confirmed.
- Several years of training under a Jedi Master: Kylo was taught by Luke for several years.
- Several years of training under a Sith Lord/Other Master level Dark Jedi: Snoke is clearly on par with or stronger than Luke (or Luke would've beaten his ass to Byss and back by now). Kylo was (and still sort of is) his apprentice.
- a span of nearly two decades in which he was aware of, and able to experiment with, his force abilities: even without teching, Kylo's had nearly 20 years to test things out and practice his skills. that's plenty to discover a new skill or practice a taught one.
and most of the above applies to his lightsaber skills as much as it does his force abilities.
simply put, I'm not saying that Rey's skills are more impressive than Kylo's - but Kylo has a reasonable excuse for knowing his. Rey doesn't.
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masdercheef (01/04/2016) [-] I do agree with Rey's power being a little ******** but we must remember, Kylo Ren had also been shot in the chest by a flippin' Bowcaster not long before that fight. If that didn't put him slightly off his game, I don't know what would.
Also, I don't see a lot of other people acknowledging the fact that he stopped a ******* blaster bolt dead in its tracks. That's probably some of the coolest **** we've seen the Force do in the movies, and nobody's even talking about it?
Also, I don't see a lot of other people acknowledging the fact that he stopped a ******* blaster bolt dead in its tracks. That's probably some of the coolest **** we've seen the Force do in the movies, and nobody's even talking about it?
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greyblade (01/04/2016) [-]
again, the injury would hurt him, but it's still no contest. the fight lasted long enough that the difference in skill should have made all the difference. Rey doesn't know saber combat, and people who don't know it make mistakes far too fast and too often for kylo not to have beaten her.
and yes, the bolt-freeze was one of the cooler things in that movie. along with Poe and the Resurgent-class.
and yes, the bolt-freeze was one of the cooler things in that movie. along with Poe and the Resurgent-class.
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masdercheef (01/04/2016) [-] Oh man, the Resurgent-class was beautiful. And hopefully now that the bridge is slightly more low-profile, it won't be as vulnerable to kamikaze attacks.
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drldrl (01/04/2016) [-] >Fought off a highly powerful and well trained Lightsaber duelist despite having never held a lightsaber before in her life.
My theory is that Snoke trained him in the Force before saber combat, as he say he needs to complete his training at the end. Luke wouldn't have trained him in this either. There was no present danger to him, he would've done as Yoda did with him and trained him in the Force. She was a competent fighter however, having to fight people on Jakku.
>Flew the Flacon, at a level of competence that allowed her to not only evade, but help destroy two Tie/fo Fighters.
She did spend her life from a very young age salvaging all kinds of ships, there's no reason she couldn't have spent time flying a multitude of them. She has knowledge about ships that rivals that of Chewie and Han.
My theory is that Snoke trained him in the Force before saber combat, as he say he needs to complete his training at the end. Luke wouldn't have trained him in this either. There was no present danger to him, he would've done as Yoda did with him and trained him in the Force. She was a competent fighter however, having to fight people on Jakku.
>Flew the Flacon, at a level of competence that allowed her to not only evade, but help destroy two Tie/fo Fighters.
She did spend her life from a very young age salvaging all kinds of ships, there's no reason she couldn't have spent time flying a multitude of them. She has knowledge about ships that rivals that of Chewie and Han.
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greyblade (01/04/2016) [-]
both snoke and Luke would have trained kylo with a saber. it's a vital part of a jedi/sith's identity, and is their best defence against blasters - not just other force-users. plus, neither snoke nor luke had the kind of time constraints yoda did, so they would've covered the basics of each topic (force and saber) and moved on from there. heck, the fact that kylo has a saber means he's probably good with it. if you're not, you're apt to lose a limb.
she salvaged parts from ships all over jakku, yes. ships that crashed there in a battle nearly 30 years ago. any working craft would almost certainly have been recovered long ago, and if she had a working ship, she could be doing all sorts of work, not just salvaging.
I will admit - her technological knowledge fits. she's spent her life around tech, so it makes sense she'd know it. the rest, less so.
she salvaged parts from ships all over jakku, yes. ships that crashed there in a battle nearly 30 years ago. any working craft would almost certainly have been recovered long ago, and if she had a working ship, she could be doing all sorts of work, not just salvaging.
I will admit - her technological knowledge fits. she's spent her life around tech, so it makes sense she'd know it. the rest, less so.
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drldrl (01/04/2016) [-] Yes, he knew the basics. That was shown. But they wouldn't have gone past basic Form 1 until he had the knowledge of the Force required for the more advanced techniques of other forms. Shii-Cho never addressed lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat because it was a very experimental form and was created when the Jedi first moved on to use sabers. But it is used for training and learning how to handle the saber. He was also wounded in this fight.
Kylo is a very unfocused individual in Ep 7. He lets his rage control him rather than controlling it. I guarantee with the elimination of his one distraction questioning his betrayal of his parents and Snoke training him, we will see a much better fight between them.
Kylo is a very unfocused individual in Ep 7. He lets his rage control him rather than controlling it. I guarantee with the elimination of his one distraction questioning his betrayal of his parents and Snoke training him, we will see a much better fight between them.
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paradoxofnight (01/04/2016) [-] Not disagreeing with you, but Revan isn't technically canon anymore unless they appeared in a different media that is canon. I'm talking about Knights of the Old Republic, which isn't canon. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
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sircool (01/04/2016) [-] she also some how flew a ship despite never getting in one prior with such skill that she some how physically lined up the shot for fin. Also reversed mind read kylo, nice of you to forget that. Oh, she also did the mind trick, and pretty much everything else, within either the first day or month of learning that jedi -aren't- a myth and that han solo is real, in fact all of it is. Let's also forget that merging with another mind is an advance technique. Moving **** , sure, that's like year one stuff.
Kylo's **** ? Everything he did we've seen before done except for the bolt bit, that's bull **** but i'mma let it slide cause it was new, unexpected, and pretty cool to look at, as well as never done again by some one else.
You're telling me the new girl in karate class beat the guy who beat the rest of the dojo himself and has been at it for years because she only had more nanomachines than the other guy, but the other guy already has shown he has a ******* of nanomachines.
Kylo's **** ? Everything he did we've seen before done except for the bolt bit, that's bull **** but i'mma let it slide cause it was new, unexpected, and pretty cool to look at, as well as never done again by some one else.
You're telling me the new girl in karate class beat the guy who beat the rest of the dojo himself and has been at it for years because she only had more nanomachines than the other guy, but the other guy already has shown he has a ******* of nanomachines.
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thepizzadevourer (01/03/2016) [-] My quick two replies:
1. Anakin flew a starfighter at age 10 and blew up a Trade Federation capital ship. I think Rey can pull off a simple mind trick and duel with a wounded darksider for a few minutes.
2. I don't remember a Stormtrooper saving the Rebels before. Yes, there are lots of plot-point similarities between 7 and the original trilogy. However, the characters are quite different, and that gives the movie an entirely new feel.
1. Anakin flew a starfighter at age 10 and blew up a Trade Federation capital ship. I think Rey can pull off a simple mind trick and duel with a wounded darksider for a few minutes.
2. I don't remember a Stormtrooper saving the Rebels before. Yes, there are lots of plot-point similarities between 7 and the original trilogy. However, the characters are quite different, and that gives the movie an entirely new feel.
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] Honestly the only part of the movie that stood out as similar was Starkiller Base. Sure, there's other stuff, but with the amazing dialogue and acting they had this time, you cared more about that character than the overarching good army vs evil army aspect. When Poe was doing the trench run I was like Get me back to Kylo vs Rey
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
So in your eyes for a character to be overpowered is ifne as long as thats clumsily hammered home before it emerges? Do you have even a glimmer of understanding about literature?
Anakin wasn't the chosen one, he failed and his entire plot was that he was a failed-messiah that ended up dooming the idiot zealots that put him on an unrealistic pedastle. He was simply a schlub who was gifted with the force and was Mr. nobody from sand planet X. Rey is Mrs. nobody from Sand planet Y and at least has the establishment that her family have all been strong with the force.
Anakin wasn't the chosen one, he failed and his entire plot was that he was a failed-messiah that ended up dooming the idiot zealots that put him on an unrealistic pedastle. He was simply a schlub who was gifted with the force and was Mr. nobody from sand planet X. Rey is Mrs. nobody from Sand planet Y and at least has the establishment that her family have all been strong with the force.
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] If that's all you got out of it, I'm deeply sorry you can't enjoy movies anymore.
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sircool (01/03/2016) [-] >thinking I didn't enjoy it
bitch, I thought I was going to hate bb-8 and i came out loving the little son of a bitch. I love them order troop designs, and the motive for them. The action was wicked pretty and, ignoring the scene on the ship with the tentacle monsters, it flowed pretty good.
bitch, I thought I was going to hate bb-8 and i came out loving the little son of a bitch. I love them order troop designs, and the motive for them. The action was wicked pretty and, ignoring the scene on the ship with the tentacle monsters, it flowed pretty good.
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anon (01/03/2016) [-]
Completly agree, also JJ did a great job directing as the cinematography was amazing the x wings coming over the lake? gorgeous . Also when it comes to the characters I completly agree.
Finn "im nobody special" was entertaining
Poe "who talks first? you talk first? I talk first?" was great
Rey "I can do this without reasons because reasons" was complete **** .
Like they couldve done so much to give her character growth instead of just being able to do everything perfectly.
Finn "im nobody special" was entertaining
Poe "who talks first? you talk first? I talk first?" was great
Rey "I can do this without reasons because reasons" was complete **** .
Like they couldve done so much to give her character growth instead of just being able to do everything perfectly.
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] Hell yeah, so we definitely agree with a fair amount. The Rathtars felt like they belonged in one of the OT Special Editions. I also thought BB-8 was gonna be the next Jar Jar, but thankfully he's just the next R2.
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
I rewatched the originals, for the first time since the last of the prequels came out, immediately after wtaching episode 7 and I've got to say that compared to the latest episode they're not really that great. They're not terrible or anything but once the nostalgia is stripped away you can see all the **** that went on wheile they were trying to make them and how Lucas progresively lost his mind.
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captinchikin (01/03/2016) [-] I grew up with the originals, man. It's a great movie, definitely 4th place in the saga though. I really wasn't going in expecting it to beat any of the originals, but I was pleasantly surprised at how it knocked the prequels out of the park in many unexpected ways.
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greyblade (01/04/2016) [-]
1: anakin managed to dodge some shots fired by droids (an example where he had the force and they didn't, giving him an advantage) and destroyed the ship by using tactics no-one expected. he'd also had several years piloting pod-racers, which are similar to starfighters. (not 100%, but closeish)
the mind trick is not simple. show me a mind trick being used by anyone with less than 4 years of training.
and while Kylo was wounded, which is a disadvantage, he also had several major advantages. he's used to, and has trained with, a lightsaber for around a decade. Rey's never held one before. a simple feint should be enough to win the duel for him under those terms.
2: yes, the characters are different and the film is clearing heading in a different direction from IV. but what that says is that VIII and IX will be different to V and VI. the fact is, VII was, in many, many ways, very similar to IV, and that wasn't accidental. the whole film feels like it's got a lot of references, which is good, but sometimes at the expense of the film itself, which is not. say what you want about the prequels - they were their own stories.
the mind trick is not simple. show me a mind trick being used by anyone with less than 4 years of training.
and while Kylo was wounded, which is a disadvantage, he also had several major advantages. he's used to, and has trained with, a lightsaber for around a decade. Rey's never held one before. a simple feint should be enough to win the duel for him under those terms.
2: yes, the characters are different and the film is clearing heading in a different direction from IV. but what that says is that VIII and IX will be different to V and VI. the fact is, VII was, in many, many ways, very similar to IV, and that wasn't accidental. the whole film feels like it's got a lot of references, which is good, but sometimes at the expense of the film itself, which is not. say what you want about the prequels - they were their own stories.
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zaphodcoolfrood (01/03/2016) [-]
He was mad injured, his movement was impaired, and most likely not super experienced in lightsaber duals. Also, she barely held her own against him until the fight turned when she essentially avatar stated by connecting to the force, and its not like she was completely new to fighting.
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amsel (01/03/2016) [-] He wasn't too inured to throw her 30 feet across the forest into a tree about 12 seconds before the fight happened. And we know he trained with Luke, plus that lord Snoke considers him his most powerful asset. The only fighting she ever did was small time crap - she's never had any military experience, and was going up against essentially the most powerful living sith master. Then suddenly she closes her eyes and turns around and kicks his ass with like no effort. Do we forget all the training Luke had to go through just to get his ass kicked by Vader at the end of Empire because he didn't "complete his training" with Yoda first? There is no indication through the original trilogy that the force just "comes to you," and that's part of what I always liked about it. I'm sick of the pandering to this generation's need for instant gratification - I much better like the story of "work hard and concentrate and you can become stronger with great effort" than "close your eyes and hope and suddenly you'll be overcome with inexplicable strength."
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zaphodcoolfrood (01/03/2016) [-] Jesus grandpa, relax. "most powerful living sith master" could very easily still be a bitch compared to previous ones. Since the collapse of the Jedi Order and the Empire there is no real frame of reference yet as to his abilities and how they stack up. You also don't know her background, the extent of his training, or what happened when Rae shut her eyes and felt The Force. Just because it has yet to be explained does not make it inexplicable so chill, enjoy the movies and stop projecting your anger about the world on to things you think you can blame on "this generation" of which I'm sure you don't know what you mean.
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amsel (01/03/2016) [-] I'm part of this generation. I'm simply comparing the two story arcs, since they clearly were supposed to be mirror images of eachother, and I think this was a glaring mistake that goes against all elements of traditional storytelling.
In the 4-5-6 arc, people enjoyed it and wanted to come back because Luke, Han, and Leia were the clear underdogs. Luke watches his mentor die in front of him in episode 4, and wants to get revenge, but is intelligent enough to realize that a battle against vader would be suicide. So he regroups, goes to Yoda to get training, then finds his friends in danger so goes anyways despite knowing deep down that he isn't strong enough (he can't even lift his x-wing out of the water). He indeed does get his ass kicked, almost falls from cloud city, and is saved by his friends (which is of course the work of the force), then goes back for more training, just to find Yoda dying. So he has to go back, and then instead of fighting against the emperor and his father, which would not only be suicide but also "wrong" in the jedi sense, he convinces his father to come back over to the light (against all odds and advice of the people around him, mind you).
In this movie, Rey is supposed to be like Luke and Finn is supposed to be like Han (roughly). Rey is very skilled at certain skills, just like Luke was a skilled pilot. But instead of exposing her inherent weakness, and letting everyone see she is the clear underdog, which would spur us to go out and see the next movies, she just suddenly kicks Kylo Ren's ass, the latter of whom is miraculously saved by a giant trench splitting them apart. So then, what is the point of this series, anyways? The super-strong good guys beat the clumsy, idiotic bad guys? I mean, it just feels pointless. There's no room for character growth, and character growth is what gets you attached to a movie series. The only character who can really grow from this point is Kylo Ren, who everybody inherently hates for killing the coolest character from the original trilogy.
It's not a "grandpa" thing - it's simple storytelling. If you're planning a 3-part series, why on earth would you let the good guys so unequivocally win in the first episode?
In the 4-5-6 arc, people enjoyed it and wanted to come back because Luke, Han, and Leia were the clear underdogs. Luke watches his mentor die in front of him in episode 4, and wants to get revenge, but is intelligent enough to realize that a battle against vader would be suicide. So he regroups, goes to Yoda to get training, then finds his friends in danger so goes anyways despite knowing deep down that he isn't strong enough (he can't even lift his x-wing out of the water). He indeed does get his ass kicked, almost falls from cloud city, and is saved by his friends (which is of course the work of the force), then goes back for more training, just to find Yoda dying. So he has to go back, and then instead of fighting against the emperor and his father, which would not only be suicide but also "wrong" in the jedi sense, he convinces his father to come back over to the light (against all odds and advice of the people around him, mind you).
In this movie, Rey is supposed to be like Luke and Finn is supposed to be like Han (roughly). Rey is very skilled at certain skills, just like Luke was a skilled pilot. But instead of exposing her inherent weakness, and letting everyone see she is the clear underdog, which would spur us to go out and see the next movies, she just suddenly kicks Kylo Ren's ass, the latter of whom is miraculously saved by a giant trench splitting them apart. So then, what is the point of this series, anyways? The super-strong good guys beat the clumsy, idiotic bad guys? I mean, it just feels pointless. There's no room for character growth, and character growth is what gets you attached to a movie series. The only character who can really grow from this point is Kylo Ren, who everybody inherently hates for killing the coolest character from the original trilogy.
It's not a "grandpa" thing - it's simple storytelling. If you're planning a 3-part series, why on earth would you let the good guys so unequivocally win in the first episode?
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
You're trying to compare a trilogy to a single movie based on what you think might happen. Thats the problem. Just because you can't think of a decent story arc doesn't mean that one doesn't exist.
Besides, I think you're far overplaying the good side 'win.' Star Wars films have always ended with the big thing exploding and everything looking like it was going to pick up. Hell, the 4,5,6 trilogy ended and since then we all assumed that the galaxy was saved, the empire destroyed and peace restored. Except the remnants of the empire completely **** **** up in the first half hour of the latest film. Ren is not Vader. Not even close, he's not even an actual Sith lord. Her beating him is basically two force-attuned padawans having a good slap and tickle. Her force moment came across far more as a signal that they are returning to the spiritual side of things rather than scientology 2.0.
Besides, I think you're far overplaying the good side 'win.' Star Wars films have always ended with the big thing exploding and everything looking like it was going to pick up. Hell, the 4,5,6 trilogy ended and since then we all assumed that the galaxy was saved, the empire destroyed and peace restored. Except the remnants of the empire completely **** **** up in the first half hour of the latest film. Ren is not Vader. Not even close, he's not even an actual Sith lord. Her beating him is basically two force-attuned padawans having a good slap and tickle. Her force moment came across far more as a signal that they are returning to the spiritual side of things rather than scientology 2.0.
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amsel (01/04/2016) [-] I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think I'm overplaying anything. To me, they have formed no attachment to Rey and Finn as characters by the end of this movie. Finn spends 75% of the movie being a scared little boy, and the next 20% being purely reckless (i.e. when he tells everyone he knows how to defeat the shields despite having absolutely no plan for doing so, therefore putting the entire army at risk based on completely false information). Then he gets knocked out and spends the last 5% unconscious. Rey, on the other hand, starts off being very relate-able, right up until she suddenly becomes an expert lightsaber swordsman (again, this being the first time she has ever touched a lightsaber). Luke has a "moment of force" at the end of A New Hope - it let him make a very difficult shot that he potentially could have made anyways (by his self-proclamation that "I used to bullseye womprats in my T-16"). That would be different from if Luke landed on the deathstar and took down Darth Vader with a lightsaber, and he even had hours of training with lightsabers while traveling around on the Mellenium Falcon (e.g. in the whole scene where Han questions the force and calls his block 'beginners luck' and Obi-Wan replies with 'in my experience, there's no such thing as luck'). I'm just not buying this whole idea that the force can suddenly (using zaphodcoolfrood's words) turn somebody into "avatar mode" - it just isn't relate-able.
Also, they are not "two padawans having a slap and tickle" - it's one padawan having a slap and tickle and one totally inexperienced person with no formal training whatsoever who should have been clumsily wielding a brand new weapon for the first time ever. Even if Ren wasn't exactly Sith Master material, he had hell of a lot of an upper hand. Plus, plausibility aside, right now if Rey goes on and battles Ren again, you'll be expecting her to win, because she was the better fighter all along. There's no feeling of overcoming adversity and training hard and taking risk.
It was this same crap that pissed me off about the prequel trilogy. In episode I, you have a little kid accidentally fly a fighter into a huge battle and just happen to blow up a big spaceship and save the day. By episode II, they had nowhere to go with Anakin besides have a big, goofy, unnecessary love story in a desperate attempt to make the audience connect with the character.
I guess the point I'm trying to drive home here is that character growth is what builds a story. It's easy to relate to someone who works hard and builds upon their skills and becomes a better person because of it. It's really hard to relate to someone who starts the story as some magical all-powerful being that can't be stopped.
Also, they are not "two padawans having a slap and tickle" - it's one padawan having a slap and tickle and one totally inexperienced person with no formal training whatsoever who should have been clumsily wielding a brand new weapon for the first time ever. Even if Ren wasn't exactly Sith Master material, he had hell of a lot of an upper hand. Plus, plausibility aside, right now if Rey goes on and battles Ren again, you'll be expecting her to win, because she was the better fighter all along. There's no feeling of overcoming adversity and training hard and taking risk.
It was this same crap that pissed me off about the prequel trilogy. In episode I, you have a little kid accidentally fly a fighter into a huge battle and just happen to blow up a big spaceship and save the day. By episode II, they had nowhere to go with Anakin besides have a big, goofy, unnecessary love story in a desperate attempt to make the audience connect with the character.
I guess the point I'm trying to drive home here is that character growth is what builds a story. It's easy to relate to someone who works hard and builds upon their skills and becomes a better person because of it. It's really hard to relate to someone who starts the story as some magical all-powerful being that can't be stopped.
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
I can't really address your personal reactions to the characters. I personally liked both Rey and Finn as characters. Finn came across as a scared little boy because he essentially is - Jakku was his first deployment. Rey had a great introduction and as a character is far more relateable than Anakin 'the chosen little bitch.' As I said, I think her force afinity will be fleshed out and the central aspect of the next film - it's good to have some mystery precisely so that it sparks these kinds of discussions and interest in finding out. I think it's premature to write it off as bad storytelling because of our personal inability to come up with a compelling story.
I also think that the battle warrants rewatching because at no point does 'avatar mode' occur. The fighting is very much rugged and brutal compared to the lightsaber battles in every other film. Ren is injured but even before then his style is less the graceful arcs that we know and more longsword-smashing. Rey never came across as 'clearly better' to me - she was fighting a half-trained not-Sith who had an injury which would have been fatal for most people Her final blow comes after a relatively minor exchange once she has her force moment.. If a rematch occurs it'll be between Rey with whatever training Luke gives her versus a fully-healed Ren who's completed his training.
I personally think it'd be more interesting for a Luke-Ren standoff in the next film.
I also think that the battle warrants rewatching because at no point does 'avatar mode' occur. The fighting is very much rugged and brutal compared to the lightsaber battles in every other film. Ren is injured but even before then his style is less the graceful arcs that we know and more longsword-smashing. Rey never came across as 'clearly better' to me - she was fighting a half-trained not-Sith who had an injury which would have been fatal for most people Her final blow comes after a relatively minor exchange once she has her force moment.. If a rematch occurs it'll be between Rey with whatever training Luke gives her versus a fully-healed Ren who's completed his training.
I personally think it'd be more interesting for a Luke-Ren standoff in the next film.
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amsel (01/04/2016) [-] You make some great points, but I'm still skeptical. To be fair, I got off on the wrong foot, since I was very upset to see a massive battle full of explosions and characters (whose names you don't even know) dying in the first ten minutes of the film, which also felt way too much like episode I. From there forward I was playing catch-up, and some small things like that just kept tipping me back in the wrong direction. I also totally hated the fact that they just happened to find the millenium falcon, and then outflew and outshot fully trained first order pilots in modern spaceships, and that Rey just happens to know the circuitry of every spaceship ever created and can open/close doors on command, and the whole "TR-8R" portion (where Finn fights a fully armed storm-trooper using a lightsaber, surrounded by plenty of other people on both sides with blasters, and it turns into a two minute slash fest against some ridiculous electrified baton that has never been featured in any other part of the story just because it looks cool). Plus I was always part of the school of "why on earth does Ren's lightsaber look like that?" The whole movie just felt a lot more like Episode I than anything else, and it felt like they made a lot of the same mistakes. I personally think the whole Rey-Ren fight is a glaring plothole and defending it by "oh they may say in a subsequent movie that Ren is actually totally unskilled and Rey may have had some secret underground lightsaber fighting experience" is giving too much credit to a story that seems like it would have been panned in the late 1990s.
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thumbsdenied (01/04/2016) [-] Not even close to being a sith master, jedi apprentice who was corrupted to the dark side. Still used jedi force tricks like the freeze and sleep. He didnt really use lethal force powers.
Kylo is very strong with the force, but he had never faced a enemy as strong as him in the force and so because his reckless attitude, fear and being injured made him panicked and hasty, most likely losing blood and exhausiting himself with just pushing for the attack. Wich was his downfall. Kylo couldnt controll his anger so he just lashes out without a stradegy.
But rey wasnt helpless either she had fighting skills, she was atleast somewhat able to defend herself and her being very strong in the force cancelled out kylos force tricks. Even tho kylo got a cheap shot throwing her to the tree before the battle.
Kylo is very strong with the force, but he had never faced a enemy as strong as him in the force and so because his reckless attitude, fear and being injured made him panicked and hasty, most likely losing blood and exhausiting himself with just pushing for the attack. Wich was his downfall. Kylo couldnt controll his anger so he just lashes out without a stradegy.
But rey wasnt helpless either she had fighting skills, she was atleast somewhat able to defend herself and her being very strong in the force cancelled out kylos force tricks. Even tho kylo got a cheap shot throwing her to the tree before the battle.
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sgtmajjohnson (01/04/2016) [-] His delivery of that is ******* hysterical. There's just utter disbelief in his voice.
#54
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jouten (01/03/2016) [-] And yet Rey still magically acquires Force powers, learns Jedi Master mind tricks without even knowing what they are, overpowers a guy who was trained by Luke Skywalker and to be a Sith easily by closing her eyes for 5 seconds and magically knows how to fight with a lightsaber.
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obviousxplains (01/09/2016) [-] as much as i hate that, technically in New Hope it set the precedence that the force can guide a jedi to use a lightsaber, like luke blocking the training droid. the same thing could have literally taken control of rey and let her beat kylo.
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jouten (01/09/2016) [-] Luke comments "it's almost as if I could see the droid". In the OT the force was a tool that you actually had to use. It's not something that did things on their own. Yeah Luke could sense the droid and use it to guide his lightsaber to block the shots, but he still had to actively use it to block it. Same way how in the climax Obi Wan tells him that he needs to use the force. It just doesn't come to him by itself, you actively need to manipulate the force.
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obviousxplains (01/09/2016) [-] and rey meditated for like 2 seconds and then let the force act through her. even if luke could see the droid he couldnt block it with that good accuracy by himself.
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jouten (01/09/2016) [-] The difference here is that nobody taught Rey how to use the force. Rey learned how to use the force... through the force.
Luke not being able to block it before using the force just further shows that you have to actively use it and it doesn't just decide to guide you.
Luke not being able to block it before using the force just further shows that you have to actively use it and it doesn't just decide to guide you.
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obviousxplains (01/09/2016) [-] hes the only human who can do it because he has good reactions and the force guides him. same principle can be applied to rey using the saber, especially because shes his granddaughter.
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jouten (01/09/2016) [-] Yeah. Except for the fact that she fought a dude who ALSO uses the force and is ALSO his grandson and was trained by Luke Skywalker himself and Snoke and she overpowered him with no experience at all.
Might as well take Anakin and have him cut Darth Maul in half, because "lol force".
And this doesn't even remotely compare to the "Rey suddenly knows how to control peoples minds and succeeds with it" ********
Might as well take Anakin and have him cut Darth Maul in half, because "lol force".
And this doesn't even remotely compare to the "Rey suddenly knows how to control peoples minds and succeeds with it" ********
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obviousxplains (01/09/2016) [-] its total BS but atleast theres a cannon reason as to how it could happen. if in the next movie they're like "Rey has even more medichlorians than anakin shes God" then it'll make sense. its still a deus ex machina but it fits with cannon.
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jouten (01/10/2016) [-] At that point might as well just say "You know what? Let's just **** on Star Wars. Let's put literal turds as main characters. Who cares about character growth, or achievements on their own or plot? Just say force lol"
Yeah the force is a thing that can easilby exploited for deus ex ******** , but that's what makes the difference between a good story and a bad story. The OT and even the PT to an extent (even though they were horrible) understood that the Force, while magic, is mainly a tool for the main characters to use. Not some magical solution that decides for itself. Otherwise the whole Light Side, Dark Side conflict wouldn't even make sense at all. Because if the force itself decided the good side was good, then it would be entirely pointless to have a bad side.
I'm slowly getting the feeling even the Prequels were better movies than TFA. I wonder how people will remember it after the hype dies down
Yeah the force is a thing that can easilby exploited for deus ex ******** , but that's what makes the difference between a good story and a bad story. The OT and even the PT to an extent (even though they were horrible) understood that the Force, while magic, is mainly a tool for the main characters to use. Not some magical solution that decides for itself. Otherwise the whole Light Side, Dark Side conflict wouldn't even make sense at all. Because if the force itself decided the good side was good, then it would be entirely pointless to have a bad side.
I'm slowly getting the feeling even the Prequels were better movies than TFA. I wonder how people will remember it after the hype dies down
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paynetrayne (01/04/2016) [-] Lol, 66 people agree with you? Oh boy clearly that 66+1 people who couldn't see past their horrible cosplay outfits. Ben Solo was a young hot headed bitch, who I might add was never trained by Luke Skywalker like you seem to claim. Leia states this quite clearly when she says that she regrets not giving Ben to Luke to train and instead she sent him away. Though Ben might be powerful with the force he was a temperamental child at heart. Rey is the product of Luke and another powerful force adept human. She already proved her ability to wield the force with her insane ability to fly ships like her Grandfather.
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greyblade (01/04/2016) [-]
she sent him away... *to Luke*. to be trained. by Luke.
also, there's no indication that rey is related to luke. it's not impossible, but she could as easily be related to Obi Wan, Qui Gon, or any other white-ish human in the galaxy.
also, while anakin was a talented pilot, his skill didn't come from the force. he learned from podracing, and from sitting his ass in a cockpit every chance he got. power can come naturally, but skills take work. piloting is a skill. mind trick is a skill. lightsaber combat is a skill.
also, there's no indication that rey is related to luke. it's not impossible, but she could as easily be related to Obi Wan, Qui Gon, or any other white-ish human in the galaxy.
also, while anakin was a talented pilot, his skill didn't come from the force. he learned from podracing, and from sitting his ass in a cockpit every chance he got. power can come naturally, but skills take work. piloting is a skill. mind trick is a skill. lightsaber combat is a skill.
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paynetrayne (01/05/2016) [-] Though you might be anon. I must point out something stupidly obvious. Kylo is a given name by Snoke. The name that Leia and Han give him is Ben. Kthxbi.
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censius (01/04/2016) [-] I don't mind, really.
Seems like they're going with the original movie's logic of force power. I mean, Luke became a master after a year of training in a swamp, while Anakin took a decade, and he was a prodigy. I'm fine with them going with the faster route.
Plus, Kylo Ren was injured, as well as not being too well trained. I mean, it seems his master hadn't really taught him anything yet.
Seems like they're going with the original movie's logic of force power. I mean, Luke became a master after a year of training in a swamp, while Anakin took a decade, and he was a prodigy. I'm fine with them going with the faster route.
Plus, Kylo Ren was injured, as well as not being too well trained. I mean, it seems his master hadn't really taught him anything yet.
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gedoushinken (01/04/2016) [-] Rey knew how to use a staff, so that meant she was experienced with melee weapons.
Also, Kylo Ren was injured by a Wookie bowcaster which was powerful to knock a Storm trooper TR-8R off his feet.
The lightsaber gave her an awakening in the Force, thus the visions, I'm not sure how the Force works in this though.
She learned it by seeing how Kylo Ren used the Force on her, when he was using it on her, she was able to fight back and realized how to use it.
Also, Kylo Ren was injured by a Wookie bowcaster which was powerful to knock a Storm trooper TR-8R off his feet.
The lightsaber gave her an awakening in the Force, thus the visions, I'm not sure how the Force works in this though.
She learned it by seeing how Kylo Ren used the Force on her, when he was using it on her, she was able to fight back and realized how to use it.
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wertologist (01/04/2016) [-] Just because you're experienced in one melee weapon doesn't mean you are experience in all of them. A staff and a lightsaber are two very different weapons. Also, it would take more than one torture session to learn how to effectively use the force and a mind trick. Kylo wasn't even using a mind trick on her. He was just torturing her with the force to get her to talk. Mind tricks don't hurt. They don't make you cry out in agonizing pain otherwise the Jedi wouldn't use it and it would be a really ****** power since it's mostly used in stealth. Kylo was just using the force to hurt her into talking. The lightsaber helped jump start her abilities, but it's extremely far fetched how she magically learned all that **** almost immediately. Learning the force isn't a "monkey see, monkey do" kind of thing. You need to learn it and that takes time. Look at Luke. He did quickly learn how to use the force, but not to that extent and it was only because he was a Skywalker. He barely was able to block a few stun shots then the next movie was full of very inexperienced force abilities. In Return of the Jedi, he got better, but that was after training. Rey just ******* learns it on the spot with no explanation.
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gedoushinken (01/04/2016) [-] I thought Kylo Ren was using the Force to read her mind, mind tricks, and then torture. But I hope your answers will be answered in the next episode.
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wertologist (01/04/2016) [-] I'm pretty sure he went straight to torture. Remember in the beginning when he had Po? He was straight up torturing him. If he had used a mind trick Po would have spilled, but he just resorted to torture to get what he wanted.
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wertologist (01/04/2016) [-] It didn't look like he did. She pretty much instantly went into agony. Mind tricks have no effect on force users and are mostly ineffective on strong minded people. If mind tricks were agonizing, then the Jedi would definitely not have used it.
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gedoushinken (01/04/2016) [-] Maybe I misinterpreted it, maybe same principal different intensity? Like remember when Anakin Skywalker interrogated Zam Weasel? Was that a mind trick? Because she did looked like in pain when she answered him.
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wertologist (01/04/2016) [-] Kylo was likely using a form of a force crush or some kind of force torture. Either way, you don't learn how to use a mind trick by being tortured or undergoing an entirely different interrogation technique. Zam was in pain because her arm was just lobbed off with a lightsaber. That **** hurts, brah. They say it's like dipping your hand into molten metal. Anakin wasn't even using a mind trick. He was just angry and demanding answers. They had no reason to use a mind trick since she was disarmed badum tss and was subdued.
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gedoushinken (01/04/2016) [-] I don't know she entered his mind when he entered hers. It did felt like it was monkey see monkey do to me. I don't know, Luke was able to guide missiles into the exhaust port in the Death Star with the Force without any proper training.
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paynetrayne (01/04/2016) [-] Or the Student that they mention Luke failing and going into exile over was the mother of Rey.
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sayonarazetsubou (01/03/2016) [-] Don't forget that she peered into Kylo Ren's mind. The way I'm assuming it works is that it creates a sort of mental link between the two minds. If this is the case, then basic knowledge of swordplay and force powers could easily be picked up.
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Ruspanic (01/04/2016) [-] I took more issue with the fact that Finn was able to effectively use a lightsaber in combat, especially against Kylo Ren, without injuring himself.
With Rey, I can accept that she's just very naturally gifted in the Force and I think they'll probably explain it a bit more when they reveal her origin in later movies.
Luke made an impossible shot to destroy the first Death Star by "using the Force" with virtually no training. My interpretation is that the Force can sort of control your actions if you let it, which would explain how novice Force-users like Rey can't explain how they do certain things. We know it can also give people involuntary premonitions, which is how Rey knew to try Jedi mind tricks.
With Rey, I can accept that she's just very naturally gifted in the Force and I think they'll probably explain it a bit more when they reveal her origin in later movies.
Luke made an impossible shot to destroy the first Death Star by "using the Force" with virtually no training. My interpretation is that the Force can sort of control your actions if you let it, which would explain how novice Force-users like Rey can't explain how they do certain things. We know it can also give people involuntary premonitions, which is how Rey knew to try Jedi mind tricks.
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jouten (01/04/2016) [-] At least Finn got to actually weild it before and got the general gist of how to fight with a Lightsaber. Rey just picked it up and immediately knew how to use it.
And it's not like Luke did an impossible shot. As Luke said himself, it's not impossible even without force powers. He was training all movie to learn from Obi Wan the basics of the force and all he did was use it to augment his abilites. It's a realistic progression compared to what we learned about the force before. Not like he closed his eyes and suddenly blew up Darth Vader's Tie fighter magically.
And it's not like Luke did an impossible shot. As Luke said himself, it's not impossible even without force powers. He was training all movie to learn from Obi Wan the basics of the force and all he did was use it to augment his abilites. It's a realistic progression compared to what we learned about the force before. Not like he closed his eyes and suddenly blew up Darth Vader's Tie fighter magically.
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capnkrunch (01/03/2016) [-]
A) Kylo Ren was hit in the GUT by a Bowcaster which has been seen to blow up enitre SQUADS of guys with AOE damage, and not only did Kylo keep on standing he was able to fight too. B) Kylo was arguably at his weakest, not because of the injury but instead because he was in the worst state a force user can be in, a clouded state of mind. He couldn't focus and was infuriated and filled with rage. Rage and emotions and the like are vital to sith power, but the Sith must control them or be destroyed by them, think fire in Avatar:TLA. And back on the clouded state of mind, as we have seen, having a clouded state of mind as a force user seems to severely limit you. For example, Vader succumbed as quickly as he did to Luke not because Luke was just that good (Although he was fairly good clearly), but because Vaders mind was clouded.
C) Reys force powers. The most obvious explanation is that she is Lukes daughter, and considering how in the EU Luke was THE most powerful force user of all time and most likely still is, one can assume that has passed down to Rey, and her true -raw- potential as a force user was uncovered and well, AWAKENED by the situation she was in.
D) She clearly wasn't carrying around a quarterstaff to help her walk, guess what else they can be used for, that's right, fighting. Fighting a emotionally compromised, cloudy minded, heavily injured, dark lord -in training-.
C) Reys force powers. The most obvious explanation is that she is Lukes daughter, and considering how in the EU Luke was THE most powerful force user of all time and most likely still is, one can assume that has passed down to Rey, and her true -raw- potential as a force user was uncovered and well, AWAKENED by the situation she was in.
D) She clearly wasn't carrying around a quarterstaff to help her walk, guess what else they can be used for, that's right, fighting. Fighting a emotionally compromised, cloudy minded, heavily injured, dark lord -in training-.
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
Staff fighting and sword fighting are completely different things, just because your proficient at one doesn't mean your proficient at the other. in fact sword play is much harder to learn the staff fighting. Stop making excuses for the lack luster bland protagonist that is Rey.
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waitertribe (01/04/2016) [-]
To be fair, if you watch her swordplay more closely, youll see her holding the hilt super awkwardly and numerous times making awkward thrusts forward in a way youd expect to if you had a weapon with some length like a quarter staff. She is by no means fighting well or proficiently. She's adapting what she does know (fighting with staves) to a very different weapon and the choreography shows this. Anyone who saw that and said, yeah that is quality sword fighting clearly saw something I missed entirely, because what she was doing was not that
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gedoushinken (01/04/2016) [-] Yeah, and Snoke did mention Kylo Ren did not complete his training yet.
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sircool (01/03/2016) [-] 1. you point is moot by the start because HE WAS DESTROYING HER then she did her eye closed thing and instantly lost.
2. he's not the strongest of all time, that belongs to vader.
3. a bow-staff isn't like a saber. there's like 10 fighting styles to sabers alone. You don't learn how to use a bo staff and know how to properly use sais.
2. he's not the strongest of all time, that belongs to vader.
3. a bow-staff isn't like a saber. there's like 10 fighting styles to sabers alone. You don't learn how to use a bo staff and know how to properly use sais.
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capnkrunch (01/03/2016) [-]
Like I said, the force AWAKENED within her, unleashing her true power. His mind was clouded and this awakening of force may have been enough to throw him off, and the staff shows a basic understanding melee combat as displayed in movie
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capnkrunch (01/03/2016) [-]
Wow, your use of laughing gifs illustrates clear superiority over, me, why should I even bother. But to carry on a Quarterstaff is surely a bit more simmilar to a lightsaber than a Sai is to a nunchuck. Secondly, I didn't see any master lightsbar play at work here, and this was clearly intentional. Ren was rusty and by no means the master swordfighter Vader was(Vader was the best duelist of all time as you proably know) and Rey wasn't doing anything especially amazing, just basic moves against each other. Also, back on what you said about vader, Vader was as I said the best with the lightsaber but Luke was(or rather would become in EU) his superior in terms of force power
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icytime (01/04/2016) [-] Naw, I'm pretty sure Lucas said that they had the same force potential if they both lived up to their potential, but neither did, Vader went on to lose 3 limbs and rely on a power suit to live, and was clouded by emotions and didn't master things as he could've, and Luke didn't embrace the dark side at all, which would have increased his power exponentially, although he did create his own light side techniques based on dark side, and became one with the force multiple times, the point still stands that they both had the same potential, the highest in the universe.
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capnkrunch (01/04/2016) [-]
Yes, but potential doesn't matter, what they achieved does, and my point stands, Luke was at his highest possible "power level", which outclassed Vader by quite a bit.
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anon (01/03/2016) [-]
To expand on what capnkrunch said, Rey is arguably an adept fighter as evinced when she handled those two guys trying to take BB-8. She's not a master, sure, but neither is Kylo. As stated earlier, Kylo is also injured and distracted. He's certainly not at his best. All these things considered, I don't see how it's so hard to see Rey holding her own. Keep in mind she didn't defeat him. She just injured him, then she got the **** away. Also, Kylo wasn't out to kill her, not necessarily. He had the opportunity, and he stopped. The intensity behind an attack that's meant to kill is quite different than the intensity behind defense or an attack that's meant to scare or injure.
As for your comments about handling weapons... those points are arguable. An adept fighter can pick up any weapon and use relatively well. Sure, one who has put 10,000 hours into learning nunchaku will use them better than someone who has put in 10,000 into learning the bo, but if they were to switch weapons, I'd bet they would be better at them than a novice at either.
As for your comments about handling weapons... those points are arguable. An adept fighter can pick up any weapon and use relatively well. Sure, one who has put 10,000 hours into learning nunchaku will use them better than someone who has put in 10,000 into learning the bo, but if they were to switch weapons, I'd bet they would be better at them than a novice at either.
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anon (01/04/2016) [-]
1) Blood loss is a thing ******* , did you not see Kylo CONSTANTLY hitting his waist? His injury was obviously getting worse, and holding that position would put a lot of pressure on his core, so it makes sense he wouldn't be able to hold it long
2) That's debatable, we've seen people like Maul kill a jedi master with ease, only being killed when he was taken by surprise
3) Did you watch the fight? She clearly tries motions that make no sense for a lightsaber, it's painfully obvious she's using it wrong.
It's amazing how people like you can stomach Anakin's ******** abilities but suddenly throw a bitch fit at Rey for being better made.
2) That's debatable, we've seen people like Maul kill a jedi master with ease, only being killed when he was taken by surprise
3) Did you watch the fight? She clearly tries motions that make no sense for a lightsaber, it's painfully obvious she's using it wrong.
It's amazing how people like you can stomach Anakin's ******** abilities but suddenly throw a bitch fit at Rey for being better made.
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alucardexplain (01/03/2016) [-] Its as if she has access to some sort of magical energy stuff that can guide and help people if they let it.
On a less douchey note, Kylo had just been shot by a gun that throws armored storm troopers several feet back, and had lost a lot of blood by that point.
On a less douchey note, Kylo had just been shot by a gun that throws armored storm troopers several feet back, and had lost a lot of blood by that point.
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] I liked the film.
Although I do agree it does feel a little New Hope....
Although I do agree it does feel a little New Hope....
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berengar (01/04/2016) [-] I can't really disagree with you there, but I didn't mind that aspect of it. The movie made me feel like a kid again, and that makes it good in my book. I didn't feel like it was dragging, I like that the characters are decent, and I'm actually quite excited to see what they do with the rest of the trilogy. I just hope they don't make a Star Wars 9 part 1 of 3.
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senorfrog (01/03/2016) [-] I thought that, then played the old republic and the knights if the old republic and force unleashed and well the beginnings are all like a new hope. You are this lucky son of a bitch that happens on a bad moment, you get a companion and find a ship with a pilot, get some droids on the way, and end up fighting against some dark bastard who has a giant death machine to kill millions of people, fight some, then join a rebel group and take out the thing quickly.
I am starting to see the point of it is that the force does this, it creates moments for these people that basically repeats through out their galaxy, like how revan and his ally had it, the force just picks some one and repeats the **** to save the galaxy, and I feel that Rey is it this time.
I am starting to see the point of it is that the force does this, it creates moments for these people that basically repeats through out their galaxy, like how revan and his ally had it, the force just picks some one and repeats the **** to save the galaxy, and I feel that Rey is it this time.
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epicanadian (01/04/2016) [-] The whole thing felt like a nostalgia trip that just made references to the old films and brought in new characters, I think the next films will be more serious and actually move things forward. This one was just a "hey its back and we are making them again" kinda thing.
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borderlineparanoid (01/04/2016) [-] yeah, I'm sure the next one won't be a redo of ESB.
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cisdroidcommander (01/03/2016) [-] If it wasnt so similar to ANH i would rate it higher, but it was enjoyable all three times i watched it.
#19 to #17
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] I think there is just enough to make not a redo of new hope.
spoiler but blowing up starkiller base was kinda lame
spoiler but blowing up starkiller base was kinda lame
#20 to #19
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cisdroidcommander (01/03/2016) [-] I does, thats why i dont dislike it. But the similarites did distract The worst part of the star killer base was that it had a trench, it was so unnecessary but they gave it a trench anyways because the death star had it in episode 4
#24 to #20
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] my main problem with starkiller base is that it was kinda underplayed, we see it but it doesn't do anything until later and then blows up after that. ANH was all about the death star and made it seem like the most evil thing, this one they kinda just like "yeah, that's a thing, blow it up woo"
#25 to #24
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cisdroidcommander (01/03/2016) [-] Yeah, that was also annoying. This weapon has proven itself more powerful than the death star but the resistance didnt take it as serious as i would have hoped
#26 to #25
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] I was hoping that it would go on to be on the next film, to mix it up a bit and have the resistance fail a little. I'd have been fine with it being damaged so it didn't fire the laser but it would still exist. oh well
#27 to #26
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cisdroidcommander (01/03/2016) [-] Good idea. Another idea someone suggested was that instead of blowing up the starkiller base the resistance would take over it over and then in episode 8 discuss how they would use it. There could have been an interesting grey area in the next film
#30 to #27
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] the resistance become the new empire.... "Star Wars Episode VIII: Shadow of the empire" that's what it should be called or something like that
whoa
whoa
#92 to #88
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] thanks, dude.
but the idea has probably already been taken and is unlikely to happen.
there's no way the resistance would become bad but it would be pretty damn sweet to see that.
but the idea has probably already been taken and is unlikely to happen.
there's no way the resistance would become bad but it would be pretty damn sweet to see that.
#100 to #97
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] even luke had to train a little to be decent with the saber.
#105 to #100
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fellatio (01/03/2016) [-]
hell luke got the saber and still used a blaster for the 4th movie. Rey picks it up once and suddenly is a master? And she knows nothing of blasters and never fires it but then 20 seconds later doesn't miss a shot? The **** ?
also luke is probably the strongest jedi to ever exist and yet he had to train like a mofo even though he was incredibly force sensative (kinda shutting down the whole "rey can do it because she's force sensative" arguement
also luke is probably the strongest jedi to ever exist and yet he had to train like a mofo even though he was incredibly force sensative (kinda shutting down the whole "rey can do it because she's force sensative" arguement
#32 to #30
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] that name already exists as something else, nevermind
#41 to #14
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bendingtimeisgood ONLINE (01/03/2016) [-] Yeah it was really similar to a new hope, but I think Doug Walker said it best. They wanted to show the fans that they could do the old formula well, before expanding on it with their own ideas.
#43 to #42
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bendingtimeisgood ONLINE (01/03/2016) [-] Me too, I think Rey is going to be a great lead character.
#46 to #43
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borderlineparanoid (01/03/2016) [-] Spoilers
I really like how they did switch it up by making us think that Finn would become the Jedi because he's seen with the lightsaber the most in the trailers and posters, Also Finn was a really enjoyable character to watch, **** all those racists that said otherwise. I hope TR-8R comes back. :^)
I really like how they did switch it up by making us think that Finn would become the Jedi because he's seen with the lightsaber the most in the trailers and posters, Also Finn was a really enjoyable character to watch, **** all those racists that said otherwise. I hope TR-8R comes back. :^)
#58 to #46
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bendingtimeisgood ONLINE (01/03/2016) [-] I loved that, too. My friends and I were all surprised by that.
#51 to #43
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tkfourtwoone (01/03/2016) [-] I just wanted to say that Mary Sue's aren't great lead characters.
But then again, Superman & Batman. Sooo yeah, **** me, right?
But then again, Superman & Batman. Sooo yeah, **** me, right?
#57 to #51
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bendingtimeisgood ONLINE (01/03/2016) [-] Like I said, I think she's going to be a great lead character. She's nothing special in this movie, but her character's only begun developing.
#233
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mikepetru (01/04/2016) [-] Except that's exactly how it worked for Rey...but hey, who cares if feminist paragons are boring, right? They couldn't get Hayden Christensen to attract new female viewers to Star Wars, so they decided to appeal their egos instead.
#299 to #233
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gmarrox (01/04/2016) [-] Rey has already been trained by Luke, most likely. But speculation aside, Luke and Anikin both did some pretty impressive **** despite almost no force training. Remember the very first time Luke practiced with a lightsaber ever, and all Obi Wan said was to close his eyes and use the force? He went from barely being able to hold the thing to perfectly deflecting every laser shot blind folded, just like that.
#352 to #233
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sptnfouroneseven ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-] But Finn hasn't shown any force sensitivity or affinity for it... So how exactly are you going to use something you don't know you might have?
#278 to #274
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roninneko (01/04/2016) [-] With Rey's flashbacks to her youth when she touches Skywalker's lightsaber, it's heavily implied that she was already receiving training as a youngling but was hidden away when the Knights of Ren destroyed the New Jedi Order. Most likely she was already getting rudimentary training, but too much time and hardship repressed her retrievable memory of it.
#344 to #278
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mikepetru (01/04/2016) [-] I'm not sure what Star Wars you watched, but all I saw in that flashback with Rey is her little girl self telling whoever is leaving to come back. Nothing about any training, by Luke or anyone else, was ever implied.
As for Luke, you are comparing sensing blaster bolts to invading the mind of an at least Jedi Knight level force-wielder, defeating him in combat, and overpowering him in a force battle over Luke's lightsaber. Even with Yoda's training, Luke lost his hand, and only because Darth Vader was holding back to avoid killing him. And he dis it with an old body and robot limbs, compared to Kylo Ren's youthful strength, agility, and fully intact body.
As for Luke, you are comparing sensing blaster bolts to invading the mind of an at least Jedi Knight level force-wielder, defeating him in combat, and overpowering him in a force battle over Luke's lightsaber. Even with Yoda's training, Luke lost his hand, and only because Darth Vader was holding back to avoid killing him. And he dis it with an old body and robot limbs, compared to Kylo Ren's youthful strength, agility, and fully intact body.
#109
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tollund (01/03/2016) [-] Say what you want about finn and rey being overpowered for no reason but the biggest thing that bothered me was how small the battles were.
The resistance "fleet" was like a dozen x-wings.
it was like a "low orbit battle" in the new battlefront.
besides that I really enjoyed like every aspect
The resistance "fleet" was like a dozen x-wings.
it was like a "low orbit battle" in the new battlefront.
besides that I really enjoyed like every aspect
