We are free?

because theyve been told to want that

why do people see working 10-12 hour days as 'normal'
why is getting married so important
why does mainstream fashion matter?
what is 'normal'
why does everyone have to grow into a useless old fart requiring constant attention to live

People work 10-12 hours per day because without it, we wouldn't have an economy. Without an economy, we wouldn't be able to afford food, water, electricity, housing, medicines, education or policing.
Getting married isn't important, and not everybody decides to get married. People who do decide to get married do it because they're either religious or for commitment reasons, or because they find it enjoyable (Most people who had weddings will tell you they enjoyed getting married).
Mainstream fashion is the same as getting married, it's only important to those who find it enjoyable. But personally, I'd prefer not to wear a dress because I don't want people laughing at me, despite it's obvious advantages (Airy balls).
"Normal" is the state of something when it is most popular (For example, normal clothing is jeans and a t-shirt, abnormal clothing is a gimp mask and latex suit).
People grow into useless old farts thanks to the healthcare system which is paid for by the economy. Why do we let old people live? Well, personally I have an attachment to my grandparents, and I wouldn't want to see them die through something preventable. Likewise, when my parents get old, I wouldn't want to see them die of something needlessly either. Also, they've been paying taxes their whole life, why aren't they entitled to healthcare and a pension?
See, people haven't been told what to want. People want to have children, people want to have healthcare and education. Likewise, there are some things that some people like. People like fashion, people _like getting married. Just because you can't see their viewpoint doesn't mean they're mindless sheep. I'm sure you have something in life that you like; a sport or computer games or music, or hell, the internet and funnyjunk.. but again, is it really because you've been told to like those things? Or is it because they've been advertised, you tried them, and then decided you liked them?

theres no real difference between having 2 people work 12 hour shifts to make a 24 hour day or having 3 people work 8 hours to make 24 hours....in fact having that 3rd person work gives another person employment, better than paying him welfare while just 2 work

marriage and fashion are as you said, for the few who care, so why is it part of society that people who arent married or into fashion hit with social stigmatas about them

you keep mentioning wants....well why does the system tell everyone to want the same things as everybody else....theres a difference between personal wants and the wants of social conformity

I agree with your first point.. as long as all 3 people are doing their jobs competently. Don't forget, though, there's a reason some people stay on job benefits long term (They are unemployable or have a bad attitude to work).

I don't see how there are social stigmas attached to marriage or fashion.. but they are more popular concepts (Not exactly "a few"), which means that if you don't marry or follow fashion, the average person who is married or does follow fashion might not have as much to talk to you about.. but then you just have different interests to normal people. But again, following something popular doesn't necessarily mean you're brainwashed, it might mean that that popular thing is fun to do (eg, marriage, or following fashion (By the way, I have heard very few people talk about fashion.. and I fail to see how there's a social stigma attached to not following it. I'll admit it's something some vain people use to flaunt success, such as designer clothing, but most people just buy ordinary clothes and maybe something luxury for a night out).

And, on the subject of your last point, the system doesn't tell everyone what to want. People want those things either because there is a biological urge to do so (In the case of sex, which leads to children, and the act of having children is something people want to do.. I certainly hope to have children at some point in my life, do you?), because they need them to live (healthcare, water, food) or because they want to do something to give their lives meaning (education, charity, etc).

Personally, I feel you're mislabeling popular personal wants as social conformity.

well on the given the workers are of the right quality for a job, of course....so there should be no need to force fewer workers to fill longer hours, the system just wants them that way to deprive them of free time and keep them too busy on the job and too exhausted off the job, to be concerned how bad the system is

well fashion more as in what the mainstream wear...be it average joe jeans and t-shirt as most wear, or even the gangsta hiphop look, im a bit goth and love wearing black, and kinda sick of people giving me funny looks, hate the few who see a need to give me advice on what THEY think i should wear (and pretty pissed at this one jewish guy who had a bitch to my boss at work that my wearing all black was like an SS uniform and i should be fired over it)

2 people can be completely committed to each other without the state formality of marriage, and can also have big family celebrations over the union of a couple without making it a state registered entity

if youve paid attention to media through your life, you might have seen the tv and heard the radio bleating out 'buy this but that' and people's resulting 'urges' are a result of media repetition and subliminal messages to induce consumerism

the system does tell people what to want,.,...im sure youve seen people from other countries be pretty shocked your country allows them to do things their country wont let them do (and for that matter...some other countries systems may let you do things your country wont let you do)

i would like to have kids one day but under current conditions, it would not be advised to have kids in mainstream life,.....id have to get a farm somewhere away from it all so my kids dont get sucked into the media life

i want my kids to grow up knowing the true facts of the world, eat healthy, wear their choice of clothes, be fit and active, avoid politics and mainstream religion, avoid drugs, and grow to be strong independent people.....all of which society would deny them

Right see.. on your first point, do you actually have any proof of what you're saying? Because there's no minimum amount of time that the government says you have to work if you have a job, so I don't really know what your assumption is based on.

On your second point, it's the price you pay for wearing something out of the ordinary. People can't help but stare if they see something/someone out of the ordinary, and on top of that, a small amount of people (Like the Jew you described) don't know how to react to the new clothing because they're unsure of what it stands for. For example, if I went back to medieval times wearing what we perceive as normal clothing, I bet I would get a lot of funny stares too.

On your third point, I agree. Isn't it great we live in a place where we can choose how to celebrate love?

I don't bother paying much attention to adverts, although I do understand media repetition.. it's for brand awareness :3 In terms of subliminal messaging, there's little evidence (at least according to wikipedia) that it has any effect on those who do not want a product in that category prior to the advert;

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_stimuli#Consumption_and_television

Do you have any proof the system does tell me what to want? Also, that other point is just because of cultural differences.

Well, on the last two points, that's your choice. Good for you :P

well the government doesnt directly push workers to work long shifts they just make it a bitch for employers to have too many employees so said employers resort to squeezing more work out of fewer employees

for clothing, its sad how some douche can wear orange shorts with a grey hooded jacket and a ton of gold chains, and be perfectly 'normal' but me simply wearing a black shirt and cargo pants makes me strange....

one does has to question how so many countless people repeatedly go to fast food outlets like mcdonalds where the food tastes like greasy plastic shit and turns to cardboard in 10 minutes and people still call that perfectly okay.....and even when ive tried talking to people to suggest wendys or burger king...people agree those places make better stuff...then still fucking proceed to go to mcdonalds

why do you have to be one of the blind "pics or it didnt happen" type of people...think for yourself and open up to the facts of life, i cant help you with baby steps through your life

How do they make it harder for employers to employ more people? I mean yeah, maybe a bit of extra paperwork but if they have a system in place I can't imagine it'd be too hard? Think about it - why would the government want to make it hard for people to go to work? If they did that, they would have to pay more people benefits and receive less money in taxes. That doesn't make any sense, so I'm ruling out that point as just plain wrong.

Clothing wise, you shouldn't judge that man for his clothing when you yourself know what it's like to be judged for clothing, that's hypocritical.

Perhaps it's because there're way more mcdonalds (making it more convenient)? According to this article, there are more mcdonalds outlets than wendy's and burger king combined;

www.businessinsider.com/the-most-popular-fast-food-restaurants-in-america-2012-7?op=1

and when we're talking about people who eat fast food, do you really think they'll walk the extra mile for better taste?

Also, your last point seems a little childish and doesn't make any sense. How can I be blinded by looking at evidence? The example above about mcdonalds has given us a likely reason why people choose it although it makes crapper food, and that was asserted through using evidence.

the government makes it harder for people to get work so when they get an offer of work most of the time they wont care if its shitty theyll take it because its work - i have seen it happen, plus the fact ive seen the government pushing people off welfare towards jobs and dont care if they dont get jobs they dont get welfare either and government doesnt care

for clothing, if i see someone wearing clothes i dont like, i may not like them but i dont give him a lingering funny look, i dont suggest what I think he should wear, and sure as hell dont try to shit on his life because of his choice...but apparently its okay if others do that to me?

ive seen places where theres several fast food places on one small street, with mcdonalds in the middle. and seen so many people will happily walk past every other store to get to mcdonalds (so pretty much fucking logic as much as they fuck their health) or in food courts where theres a variety of stuff....even places with food alot tastier and/or cheaper than mcdonalds....numbnuts still flock to mcd's

plus the system does tell you what to want...its much easier for them to control people if they are all herded towards the same goals and drives, while keeping them distracted to it all by providing them with some 'outsider' who conflicts with the mainstream

Well, again, your first point is completely unfounded.

On your second point, I never said what they were doing was okay..

On your third point, maybe people don't really give enough of a shit. It's pretty much all the same stuff anyway with fast food.. I prefer to avoid it all together, except maybe the odd takeaway pizza.

On your last point, again, there's no real founding.. how is the government controlling people? I mean, you must understand that people have to work in order to live? If nobody worked, who would make the food, sanitize the water, generate the power and build the houses?

Also, "while keeping them distracted to it all by providing them with some 'outsider' who conflicts with the mainstream" sounds like you're awfully egotistical. You really think a majority of people give a shit about how you're dressed? Have you ever considered that, even those who do stare or make fun (Which is not okay) will give you about 20 seconds of thought in their head? "Hey, that guy's dressed weird." That's the one thought that goes through their heads; besides that, you sound completely apathetic about society, so why would they think about you at any other time if you do nothing for society?

unfounded?, okay,
im sure youve seen a couple employers who are unfair to their workers and carry a 'if you dont like it then quit and ill find someone else' attitude, so the workers deal with being shit on just to keep their jobs.....and given how some parts of usa have such shit economy, jobs come at a premium so people are grateful just to have them

on that note you've shown you're awake in some part and avoid the media message of getting fast food because its nice and convenient....others arent as awake to it.....

people do need to work, but they also need to live but the system is herding them towards overwork.....people need food but at the same time the government demands farms spray their crops with poisonous shit and is cracking down on people growing in home gardens as 'hazardous'......they pump flouride into drinking water which is an agent in hydroflouric acid...a deadly poison,...then whine its unsafe for people to collect rainwater.....and as for housing....houses used to have back yards..ive seen more and more houses built without any outdoor space, and are now promoting apartment life is better and making it difficult to live in normal houses

i contribute a fair amount to society, i work law enforcement, i protect people, and do what i can to prevent people from committing crimes...but then again its the system that allowed crimes to get out of control to begin with

Well, I'll admit that only a minority of people enjoy their jobs.. but I think that attitude has always been the same, to be honest. I feel your argument has a tone of "wage slavery" in it, which I wouldn't disagree is happening.. but at the same time, I wouldn't attribute it to being deliberate; I simply think more people are being made than jobs.

Yeah, I don't trust fast food much. It's really unsatisfying, and I feel bad every time I order some lol.

Well, I couldn't say whether or not the system is overworking people. In America, I certainly would have fears about preservatives (I heard over there your meat lasts about a month in date), over here in the UK as a reference point meat would be out of date within 2 weeks.
I do have to point out your argument about fluorides is false; just because one chemical is made with fluoride, it doesn't mean fluoride itself is dangerous.. especially in small enough quantities. Also, remember why fluorides are used; to make sure the water is clean. I just find it a little ironic you're talking about fluorides poisoning people when in fact it is there to make sure people don't get ill.. where as still sitting rainwater would, after some time start to become unsafe to drink (It would be a stagnant water source).
On your point about housing, I think again that's just an increasing population in a finite amount of land.. what else can they do? If they build houses on unused land, they'll get criticised by environmentalists.. if they don't build houses, they get criticised about overcrowding.

On your last point, fair enough. But why wouldn't you arrest them for insulting a police officer?

yes, thank parents for everything the government told them to give me, as they told my grandparents to give them, and so forth back the lineage
nature didnt make us act like this, a goverment that wants conformity programmed us to be this way
conformed people obey better than free thinkers

you know what...after posting that and thinking about it, I apologize. It is totally not my place to try to know you or where you came from. People aren't the same and I shouldn't generalize.

we act this way because it perpetuates the species. Commonality promises this as we are a social group with norms. Even the most radical thinkers step in line as not to be thrown away as outcasts. When you grow up you will understand that your childish angst is natural. You are merely projecting your anger towards authority and thats natural too

im 32, ive worked im law enforcement and seen the shitstorm from a step inside it, and i know if its bad at my level it could onlt be worse deeper inside

when one is young, it is angst and anger at society

when youre older and hate the system, it usually means youve had time to see some of the shit they do and decide you dont approve of it

maybe one day when you step outside your house and look around at the world, you'll understand

20 years in the Navy have given me a very very good view of the world, however it has also given me institutionalization.

Be careful and thank you for your service protecting people

well i salute you that you have served in the military,
but then that does have the down side, you've been conditioned to obey orders from above, all i can do is hope youre one of the idealists who know when to refuse certain orders

its recently come out that obama and crew are asking around which military officers will or wont carry out orders to fire on civilians, i just hope that if it came to navy..you'd know when to refuse objectionable orders

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzT6X3_Bg9o&list=FLPQqGbMlaLKlvKjJFHO-dJA&index=1

retired last year! I HIGHLY doubt that question would ever be asked as a form of proof of loyalty. We have strict ROE that if anything harms servicemembers vice "civilians" (whatever that means).

Anyway, topic for another discussion which is neither funny nor junk :)

society didnt make the norms, the government placed them and cowed the people into following them

yes but too many people are brainwashed into the ideas of conformity that they couldnt comprehend living any differently...theyd just think how can they move all their civilised shit into the sewer and live the same way as ever in a different place