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#60 - marsupilami (02/05/2014) [-]
To all the people saying, " There never was a Palestinian State."

Before WW2 said territory had a population that was 94% ethnically arab. The religious breakdown was as follows: 82% Muslim, 10% Christian, and 7% Jewish. Jews ethic or religious however they want to be defined made up a very small percentage of the disputed territory.

All this arguing semantics is of no avail. I don't see how a name and a flag really matters. Regardless of what they were called or whether or not they were a nation as the west defines it, they WERE a group of people who had lives, livelihoods, families,etc. in that place. I don't see any justification for a very small minority group surging en masse from halfway around the world and displacing and ethnically cleansing a 94% majority. I don't consider "uhh the book WE wrote says this is ours and we're going to kill you if you don't capitulate" a reasonable justification

Also, before I get hit with "oh Israel was there first, back in ..." The ROMANS not the arabs conquered that territory and named it Palestine. The ROMANS still not the arabs destroyed Solomon's Temple in 70 AD. Israel is like the kid who comes in and tells you you're sitting in his seat even though he's been somewhere else for a thousand years or so in this case when you sat down.
User avatar #158 to #60 - completeaddiction **User deleted account** (02/05/2014) [-]
thanks for saying it like it is. I don't know how people even defend Israel. All they do is pay politicians to get elected. Can't name a single thing that Israel has done to deserve the full support of the U.S.
User avatar #116 to #60 - meganinja (02/05/2014) [-]
Israel's such a tiny piece of land. Who the **** cares if they have that little sliver? Just look at India and Pakistan, they were separated by religion, and they're massive. Millions upon million of people were evicted.
#109 to #60 - presentdent (02/05/2014) [-]
Well, the idea that anyone -owns- that part of the world because of their ethnicity is just bonkers, anyway. Since the (dun dun dun) "THE DAWN OF MAN," it has been home to Semitic Syrians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Jews, Egyptians, Hittites, Semitic Syrians (again), Persians, Makedonians and Greeks, the Jews again (from the time of Alexander to Rome's intervention, Judea was run by a council of Jewish priests, despite Antiochus IV's 						*******					 about with the temple), the Romans/Jews/Semitic Syrians/Greeks, Byzantine Greeks/Jews, Arabs, Franks, Franks/Arabs, Turks, Arabs, Jews again.   
   
Roughly in that order.   
   
While one doesn't need to agree with what Israel does, one does need to agree with the existence of a Jewish state, if (and only if) because every ethnicity/nation needs a state to argue and fight for them in the world, and the Holocaust would have been much less likely if a Jewish state had been arguing for the rights of Jews in the world. So, the creation of Israel by the victorious allies was meant to prevent anything like it from happening again.   
   
But just in case, have a picture:
Well, the idea that anyone -owns- that part of the world because of their ethnicity is just bonkers, anyway. Since the (dun dun dun) "THE DAWN OF MAN," it has been home to Semitic Syrians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Jews, Egyptians, Hittites, Semitic Syrians (again), Persians, Makedonians and Greeks, the Jews again (from the time of Alexander to Rome's intervention, Judea was run by a council of Jewish priests, despite Antiochus IV's ******* about with the temple), the Romans/Jews/Semitic Syrians/Greeks, Byzantine Greeks/Jews, Arabs, Franks, Franks/Arabs, Turks, Arabs, Jews again.

Roughly in that order.

While one doesn't need to agree with what Israel does, one does need to agree with the existence of a Jewish state, if (and only if) because every ethnicity/nation needs a state to argue and fight for them in the world, and the Holocaust would have been much less likely if a Jewish state had been arguing for the rights of Jews in the world. So, the creation of Israel by the victorious allies was meant to prevent anything like it from happening again.

But just in case, have a picture:
#314 to #109 - marsupilami (02/06/2014) [-]
That's basically my point; nobody has been there consistently. That is also the basis for my problem with the modern state of israel. I don't see how they have any more of a legitimate claim to that land than anyone else and I don't understand why the world and America in particular has to support and defend them.

As for "one needs to agree with the existance....", I wholeheartedly disagree. Gypsies and homosexuals were "holocausted" as well. Are we going to ethnically cleanse some random country/people so they can have their own state? America, Canada, Australia, etc. are all multicultural, accepting countries. The Jews in those countries were just fine before, during and after the war. The ironic thing is that carving out racist, apartheid states for fringe minority groups is literally what CAUSED the holocaust!
#315 to #314 - presentdent (02/06/2014) [-]
Gypsies ought to have a state, honestly. The continued harassment and persecution of gypsies in Europe should be proof of the fact that they need representation. However, the gypsies are a nomadic people and do not demand a state. Despite this, every nationality needs representation, even if it's not a state.   
   
As for homosexuals, they aren't a nationality. Homosexuals can be from any country or ethnic group. So, a gay state isn't necessary. Countries simply need to recognize their rights, as most civilized countries have done for women.   
   
The Israelis have a legitimate claim to Israel because the country that governed the territory gave it to them. While Israel at first lived side-by-side with the Palestinian state that was created (I'll accept it was all created in a dysfunctional manner), the Palestinians and surrounding Arab countries attacked Israel.    
   
As such, it makes sense for Israel to be paranoid, even if the government goes about it in a sometimes unacceptable manner. It's not as if the Palestinians are willing to accept the Israelis any more than the Israelis are accepting of the Palestinians.   
   
Why does America support Israel? It's the only non-Islamic state in the region that will work in the US's interest.
Gypsies ought to have a state, honestly. The continued harassment and persecution of gypsies in Europe should be proof of the fact that they need representation. However, the gypsies are a nomadic people and do not demand a state. Despite this, every nationality needs representation, even if it's not a state.

As for homosexuals, they aren't a nationality. Homosexuals can be from any country or ethnic group. So, a gay state isn't necessary. Countries simply need to recognize their rights, as most civilized countries have done for women.

The Israelis have a legitimate claim to Israel because the country that governed the territory gave it to them. While Israel at first lived side-by-side with the Palestinian state that was created (I'll accept it was all created in a dysfunctional manner), the Palestinians and surrounding Arab countries attacked Israel.

As such, it makes sense for Israel to be paranoid, even if the government goes about it in a sometimes unacceptable manner. It's not as if the Palestinians are willing to accept the Israelis any more than the Israelis are accepting of the Palestinians.

Why does America support Israel? It's the only non-Islamic state in the region that will work in the US's interest.
#316 to #315 - marsupilami (02/07/2014) [-]
So, by that logic, if I steal your car and give it to a friend of mine, he has a legitimate claim to your car? Interesting.

Israel is not in Americas best interest at all. They've been convicted of syping on the US numerous times. They knowingly attacked and killed American sailors read up on the U.S.S Liberty . They sold American military technology to the highest bidder, against American interest. not to mention that that technology was given to them for free and paid for on the backs on the American taxpayer . Worst of all, they're the very reason that the rest of the Islamic world doesn't work in American interests. Osama bin Laden's stated reason for 9/11 was the US support for Israel. They are the primary reason that America is mostly hated in the Arab world. The US relationship with israel in no way benefits the US. An ally is a friend; an alliance is beneficial to both parties. Israel is a parasite!
#318 to #316 - presentdent (02/07/2014) [-]
I'd say a lot of what Israel's intelligence agency does is beneficial to the United States. Cyber-attacks on our enemies, for example. And they're a good proxy, when we don't want to get our hands dirty.

As for the car: this hypothetical situation would involve your great, great, great grandfather's horse. A greek man owned a horse. This horse was stolen from him by a Roman man, who, in turn, had the horse stolen by your great, great, great grandfather. The horse was stolen from him by a Frenchman, and your ancestors fought with the french over this prize horse. Finally, the a Turk stole it, sold it, and re-invested the earnings in a car. A British man then stole this car, and gave it to a friend of his. And it turned out his friend's great-great-great-great grandfather owned part of the pasture the original horse was raised on.
User avatar #107 to #60 - wolviewolverine (02/05/2014) [-]
No matter how many (ha ha, oh... ) thumbs you get it doesn't change the fact msot arab worl sucks arse
User avatar #149 to #107 - redtooth (02/05/2014) [-]
sorta like your spelling there, son
#68 to #60 - learnthisline (02/05/2014) [-]
For my dissertation I've been looking at a ********* of old newspapers, from the late 20s to mid 1950s, and I've come across so many articles mentioning Palestine.


I also found on that reminded me Israel shot down British planes over Egypt.
They're ******* scum, and should be recognised for the illegal state they are.
#164 to #68 - honkitonk (02/05/2014) [-]
hah, what is your phd going to be? doctorate of being an ignorant, close minded 						*******					? i seriously doubt that you are, in fact, making a degree. no reputable university would support 						***********					 like this. and even if you do, i would love to send your comment to your supervising professor. you are an embarrassment.
hah, what is your phd going to be? doctorate of being an ignorant, close minded ******* ? i seriously doubt that you are, in fact, making a degree. no reputable university would support *********** like this. and even if you do, i would love to send your comment to your supervising professor. you are an embarrassment.
User avatar #176 to #164 - learnthisline (02/05/2014) [-]
Dissertation isn't for a PHD.
It's for the end of a standard degree. You ******* gimp.

Also, the research is for "what was the British public's opinion, specifically among Manchester Labour MPs, on the Chinese Communist victory?"
So I'm reading newspapers, and finding references to Palestine all the time, seeing as they are from before WWII, when Israel didn't exist.

Learn some history before you repeat another pseudo-intellectual quip.
#184 to #176 - honkitonk (02/05/2014) [-]
okay, well in germany it is the same as a phd. i don't know what what the scientific value of your work will be. but if the only thing that you learnt from it, is hate and ignorance, then you have wasted your time, bravo. not only your own but that of everyone involved in your work. If I had to choose between a nation that would gladly commit genocide to get rid of its neighbour and one that tries so very hard only to find a place among the surface of this world because no one wanted them, id choose the latter.
User avatar #215 to #184 - learnthisline (02/05/2014) [-]
What?
The "scientific" value would be the knowledge of what the general opinion among Labour MPs, specifically those in Manchester, was on the Communists beating the Nationalists in the Chinese Civil War - compared to how the same event was portrayed in Labour-favourable newspapers and Tory-favourable newspapers (also the Liberals and the Communist Party of Great Britain).
That's what a dissertation is.
A PHD (in England, at least) is a thesis.

Personally, I can't see any "value" in this research, other than historical inquisitiveness, which is why it's a history dissertation, not a chemistry, etc. one.

I simply said that when I was reading these papers I came across articles talking about Palestine, not Israel, up to a certain date. But during the 50s, I found mentions of Israel; specifically Israel shooting down British planes in Egypt.

Have you studied any Jewish/World history?
Judaism began like every other religion. In that area of the world, religions were tied into geography. Country A would fight Country B; which was viewed as God A v. God B. If Country A lost, then they would adopt the "stronger God": B.
The Jews were the first to believe in a single God, so when they were invaded and conquered they refused to adopt the victors God. They were thus chased out of the region, which is why they are so spread out - you can find Jewish communities in many European countries.
But it's odd that you would find Jewish Communities in every single country which they migrated to; self-segregation.
This is also evident in the French Revolution, well the Democratic Revolution, which precluded the Jacobins. The Revolutionaries, such as Sieyes and Condorcet argued that the Jews in France should be given the same rights (in the Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen) as French citizens, but only if they were willing to become French citizens, not Jewish citizens.
You're making a very uneducated argument, based on no historical evidence.
#258 to #215 - honkitonk (02/05/2014) [-]
Oh okay, i see which direction you are going. You mean to say that jews were unwilling to integrate into other societies. I don't see what your point with this is. No culture that is proud of its heritage integrates fully. that would mean cultural genocide by the way, thats what australians tried with the aboriginal minority. of course you know districts like chinatown or little italy and whatnot. in that sense, jews did not commit any crime. none that would justify a holocaust, anyways.

then you keep bringing up that plane stuff over egypt. whats your point? my people, the germans, commited much worse, unprovoked, atrocities. still, no one keeps pointing that out whenever modern german politics are concerned. this is a rather weak argument, even more so since one can't find a credible source, but thats not the point. this can't be the reason for your hate on israel, i think you are too smart to try and prove a point with a silly anecdote.

jewish history, let's begin. the people of israel were divided into nations, the northern nation of israel and the southern nation of judah. the first was completely destroyed, the second was deafeated and the upper class was carried off to babylon. some time after the defeat, babylon was in turn defeated and the people of judah were allowed to return. destroyed for the last time by the romans 135 a.d. the people of judah were ********* on the globe and the land was henceforth called palestina.divided into three partsalaestina Prima (Palaestina I) with judah, samaria and cesarea; Palaestina Secunda (Palaestina II) with galilee, jezreel and decapolis; Palaestina Tertia (Palaestina III) with negev, sinai and jordan. the people who moved in were several arabic minorities. now the jews tried to "alleviate" the nations of their presence and its still not okay. why? i don't ****** know. probably becuz of mfuggaz like you, calling israel scum. you are not shining here bro. you seem like a smart kid, don't be "this kind of guy".
#98 to #68 - alimais (02/05/2014) [-]
Too bad that the Zionist Jews had and still have a huge political power some dumb ***** even call them Illuminati.

The prime minister could order the soldiers to rip the intestines out of 1000 Palestinian(or other non Jews) children and no country, mainstream media or council (UN) would intervene.
#178 to #100 - learnthisline (02/05/2014) [-]
I love these cartoons, they're so to the point.
Moar I say!
User avatar #67 to #60 - wolviewolverine (02/05/2014) [-]
we kinda sorta don't care.
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