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This is what bothered me most about the film. Actual spoilers how could rey possibly beat Kylo Ren or use the jedi mind trick with no training
Woah its almost like i have an opinion or something
Keep in mind he was hit in the gut by Chewies bowcaster. The very same weapon we've seen blast stormtroopers to hell in a single shot. Rey also had been fighting for probably most her life with that stick of hers, it's not like it was her first fight.
The mindtrick is ******** though, I agree with that. Unless somehow it's the simplest force trick and she somehow heard a legend about Jedis using it prior to it happening.
The mindtrick is ******** though, I agree with that. Unless somehow it's the simplest force trick and she somehow heard a legend about Jedis using it prior to it happening.
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thesweetscientist (01/08/2016) [-]
It's cause she was a jedi. Didn't anyone notice how Kylo reacted when he heard that there was a girl with Finn? My speculation is that she has some connection with Kylo (love interest, sister, etc.) and he didn't kill her along with the rest of the jedi he killed. Didn't anyone notice that she didn't speak ANYTHING of her past and that she's waiting for somebody, but she her self doesn't know who. Also, Jedi memory wipe.
#220 to #212
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coolnamestaken (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey is Luke's daughter and Luke must have wiped her memory before leaving her on Jakku for safety purposes after Kylo defected.
Theory going around that she's of Kenobi descent, which makes much more sense with the accent.
Speaking of kids though Kylo seriously looks NOTHING like Leia or Han and that bugs the **** out of me. Like I understand kids don't always look like their parents but where the hell did he come from, he has zero similar features
Speaking of kids though Kylo seriously looks NOTHING like Leia or Han and that bugs the **** out of me. Like I understand kids don't always look like their parents but where the hell did he come from, he has zero similar features
#209 to #2
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funnygiggles (01/08/2016) [-]
She probably learned from watching. You remember how Kylo Ren said she grows stronger as she starts learning her powers. Its because she say what Kylo Ren was doing and tried to do the same thing back and discovered she could.
Because she is a strong independent woman that can do anything a man can doexcept pee standing up
#187 to #2
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starlordoriginal (01/08/2016) [-]
There's a much stronger version of the force that works in her favor. All force sensitive people can use, to a certain extent, "the force." But Rey taps into what is known as "The Plot Force," which is infinitely more powerful than the force and can perform miraculous feats that would be otherwise considered impossible.
#184 to #2
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dubstroyer (01/08/2016) [-]
It made me believe The Force is more of a living thing than a sheer natural force like gravity or magnetism, and more like Thor's hammer, Mjolnir.
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gnomepoacher (01/08/2016) [-]
Personally, I think that after being exposed to the ability she was made aware of the opportunities of the force, and then attempted it herself. Then later on again in the fight she connects with the force and is able to best him.
Except Kylo never used a mind trick on her so she just learned it out of nowhere in a matter of minutes. Kylo was using a form of force torture to get her to talk. Mind tricks don't cause agonizing pain like Rey and Po were in. If mind tricks hurt, the Jedi wouldn't have been using them all the time. The only mind trick in the movie was when Rey suddenly learned it and used it.
It's fine. A lot of people thought the same thing. It's just best to keep in mind that Sith tend to use force abilities that can/will hurt or kill. If someone uses the force on someone and they are in pain, it's not a light side power.
First off, Kylo had been shot with a bowcaster which was powerful enough to send everyone else hit by it 10ft backwards and blowing off armor. He gets hit, takes a knee for a second, then stands up. At best he is at half strength and can't wield his lightsaber with correct form.
Next, Rey is clearly the daughter of a powerful jedi (most likely Obiwan), and if it is his daughter then we know that he is one with the Force, meaning it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to have started to guide her when she opened herself up to the living force.
Of course this is mostly just theorizing and rambling by a random Star Wars fan,so take it however you like.
Next, Rey is clearly the daughter of a powerful jedi (most likely Obiwan), and if it is his daughter then we know that he is one with the Force, meaning it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to have started to guide her when she opened herself up to the living force.
Of course this is mostly just theorizing and rambling by a random Star Wars fan,so take it however you like.
rey is absolutely not obi wans daughter she's probably lukes there's a few things pointing to this but im hoping she's hans
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anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Jedi mind trick I don't know.
As for Rey winning she had plenty of experience fighting with melee weapons already, though she still would have lost in a fair fight no doubt. Thing is though Kylo was shot by the same bowcaster that had previously killed 3 stormtroopers in 1 shot and lifted anyone it shot clean off their feet. He was barely able to stand and Rey still barely managed a "Win".
As for Rey winning she had plenty of experience fighting with melee weapons already, though she still would have lost in a fair fight no doubt. Thing is though Kylo was shot by the same bowcaster that had previously killed 3 stormtroopers in 1 shot and lifted anyone it shot clean off their feet. He was barely able to stand and Rey still barely managed a "Win".
While its true that Rey was proficient with a melee weapon, it's not necessarily true to say she proficient with all melee weapons. Her weapon on Jakku resembled a staff, and as such I'm lead to believe she knows how to fight a particular sect of martial arts which use staffs as primary weaponry. But a sword is vastly different, and thus she'd have little to no proficiency in such weapon style. which lead me to think if Jar Jar Abrams will have Rey use a double-sided saber like Darth Maul, which I think would be ******* awesome
As for Kylo Ren getting shot, I don't remember the movie well enough to argue that; I dont remember if he got shot before or after already kicking Finn's unloyal ass
As for Kylo Ren getting shot, I don't remember the movie well enough to argue that; I dont remember if he got shot before or after already kicking Finn's unloyal ass
If you look at her form in the movie, you can see she's holding the saber at an odd angle. She's definitely not practiced. Also, wielding a lightsaber is probably very different from wielding a sword. The blade of the saber has no mass. You're really just swinging a deadly flashlight around.
#168 to #2
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cockandballz (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey winning the fight makes perfect sense, He was shot, stabbed, mentally unstable even before Killing Han , tired out from both fighting Finn and probably from running outside to catch them while also being injured.
Not to mention he isn't that great of a fighter relatively speaking, while Rey is a pretty decent fighter and is very force sensitive, also he was probably holding back because he wanted to make her his apprentice.
I got nothing for the mind trick though unless they're setting her up to be absolutely insane with the force.
Not to mention he isn't that great of a fighter relatively speaking, while Rey is a pretty decent fighter and is very force sensitive, also he was probably holding back because he wanted to make her his apprentice.
I got nothing for the mind trick though unless they're setting her up to be absolutely insane with the force.
Finn should have been knocked on his ass in no more than 5 seconds and rey is not the more experienced fighter the amount of times she tries to just poke him with the saber looked ridiculous imo. I think it would've been loads better if they had lost it would've made kylo ren seem way more threatening
#251 to #179
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cockandballz (01/09/2016) [-]
Finn is a trained soldier and actually pretty talented if you read that little prequel book they made and would know the fundamentals of melee combat, I think he lasted about as long as he should have being a non force user and all.
Kylo Ren isnt supposed to be threatening, hes supposed to be a whiny wannabe Darth Vader who is getting pulled between the light and dark sides constantly and will have huge character development over the next episodes.
Kylo Ren isnt supposed to be threatening, hes supposed to be a whiny wannabe Darth Vader who is getting pulled between the light and dark sides constantly and will have huge character development over the next episodes.
To beat Kylo, he was hit in the stomach by a bowcaster, also likely shaken due to what he had just done. The mind trick, I have no idea, but I doubt they'll go without explaining it in the next two
He just took a direct hit from a mega bazooka that sends normal people flying in a 360° scope. The fact that he still stands and fights is remarkable to say the least, even in the Star Wars universe. His doubts and weaknesses only make him a better character imo.
#163 to #2
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thearcher (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey beat Kylo Ren because by the time she got to him, he'd already taken a Huge direct hit from Chewie's bowcaster (that sends groups of men flying) with barely any visible discomfort - so clearly he's a tough ****** , then he goes up against Finn after beating his own wound to make the pain greater so he can use it to channel the dark side easier (either way you spin it, he's injuring himself and just making it worse) and Finn manages to score a glancing blow on him too before he's defeated
Plus, Rey didn't Actually start to beat Ren specifically until after she decides to let the Force into the fight on her side, she just couldn't have got the upper hand without it, and she's clearly very strong in the Force thanks to her senses and mind trick ability
But in all seriousness - being able to pull off a mind trick in only 3 attempts without even properly knowing what it is? **** off....
Plus, Rey didn't Actually start to beat Ren specifically until after she decides to let the Force into the fight on her side, she just couldn't have got the upper hand without it, and she's clearly very strong in the Force thanks to her senses and mind trick ability
But in all seriousness - being able to pull off a mind trick in only 3 attempts without even properly knowing what it is? **** off....
The way I see it is that Rey and Finn managed to hold their own against Kylo is because their fighting with all the have and all their anger. They just witnessed a hero/father figure get straight up murdered by Kylo. Rey is also shown to be force sensitive and be extremely powerful in the force even without proper training. In Star Wars, it's not impossible. She is shown throughout the whole movie to be connected to the force on a deeper level than anyone we've seen in any of the films, even so far as to knowing Luke's location without even realizing it. Also Kylo Ren was trying to get her to join him, it's almost like the Bespin fight from Empire Strikes Back. Vader was just toying with Luke, getting him angry and wanting him to fall to the dark side. Kylo, at least I think, was trying to do the same. He injured her friend, killed Han Solo, and was tempting her to fight with anger, and join the dark side. And Kylo isn't very well trained it seems either, he's not even done with his Sith training based on what Snoke said. Now if Kylo Ren was supposed to be fully trained and at his maximum potential then I'd be pissed too.
fight with all you have and all your anger against mike tyson
if someone is trained there is just no logic behind it someone untrained is a match for him unless you bring a gun to a fist fight or somethin
if someone is trained there is just no logic behind it someone untrained is a match for him unless you bring a gun to a fist fight or somethin
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amicoolnowmom (01/08/2016) [-]
Yeah, don't forget that Mike Tyson got shot with a ******* bowcaster and is barely staying conscious.
If still interested, I'd just point out how much attention they gave Chewie's bowcaster throughout the film, about how good it was. Han said how much he liked it after he sent multiple stormtroopers to their death with one shot. Kylo Ren kinda took that to the stomach, it's surprising he could stand! He might have been holding his guts in!!
My two cents, I think that Kylo's use of the force on her mind awoke her inner ability to use it. Kind of The Sea Lion thing from Avatar (show) used light bending on Aang and he could then use it himself. Maybe the same principles apply here, use an ability to unlock it on other person who can the power hidden within them.
well ren does know how to fight. you think a lone girl on a scavver planet would be all nice and easy? not to mention ren should have died from bloodloss after taking a shot from chewy. i mean just try walking after giving blood. now ill kind of bend on the force ******* but i think it was meant kinda as she has an amazing force of will because of the life shes lived and shes likely the daughter of a great jedi and the granddaughter of one of the greatest force users ever. add in the fact that storm troopers are trained to follow orders without question
Rey did have to defend herself from bandits,and to be fair even if it was from a good distance getting shot by a bowcaster let alone a regular blaster will take it out of you.Not to mention having just "Done that thing everyone spoiled" As for the mind trick,i guess you could say it comes naturally to some people. But eh that part was really just script.
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bellrunner (01/08/2016) [-]
No idea about the mind control, but how the heck did Ren survive getting hit in the freaking side Chewbaka's blaster? That thing took out 3 storm troopers just by hiting the ground NEAR them.
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madoc (01/08/2016) [-]
I know this article is lengthy but it's a worthwhile read. You're asking the right question, but consider there are still two movies to come that will provide answers. Episode 7 is all about characterbuilding and setting up for some really interesting revelations.
www.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277
www.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277
There are far too many things that just get passed off as being potentially explained by Rey's past and so many simpletons are far too quick to just accept these things when we are supposed to be judging this movie on a standalone movie experience. When I watched A New Hope for the first time only a few crucial questions were raised, the Force Awakens is a *********** of stupid inconsistencies (Lukes BLUE lightsaber - aka the one he lost with his hand in cloud city - turning up etc) with previously established events and Star Wars lore/themes. As far as I am concerned, one of the big draws to the movies are the powerful Sith antagonists (Darth Maul taking on and essentially beating 2 jedi) and Kylo Ren is beyond a lost cause at this point having lost a fight to Rey who inexplicably knows the force in ways she couldnt possibly ******* know.
This article is a joke, many of the Huffington's plot holes exist and are inexcusable whether they are considered in the context of just Force Awakens or along with the other movies that are yet to be released. This guy is merely refuting them because of what could be explained in the future movies, but because of the terrible job that Abrams did of creating all of them in the first place I highly doubt many of them will be brought to light or answered for.
This article is a joke, many of the Huffington's plot holes exist and are inexcusable whether they are considered in the context of just Force Awakens or along with the other movies that are yet to be released. This guy is merely refuting them because of what could be explained in the future movies, but because of the terrible job that Abrams did of creating all of them in the first place I highly doubt many of them will be brought to light or answered for.
Kylo did accidentally giver her access to his mind, which would have had training from light and dark side sources. Besides, Luke was able to use telekinesis with out any training, and Leia was able to sense significant happenings through the galaxy. Whose to say instinct can't unlock several minor force powers?
Original spoiler technically but whatever But Luke did have force training. Telekinesis is pretty much as basic as **** comes as far as the force goes. And while his training was very substantial or lengthy, Obi-wan still taught him quite a bit on how to use it.
Correctly warning of spoilers? That's a win in my book. (!gniD) -1 sin
Oh no, a theme account of cinema sins? Which will be critiquing comments like an asshat?
Like that "nice meme bruh" asshole wasn't obnoxious enough.
Like that "nice meme bruh" asshole wasn't obnoxious enough.
The mind trick and her being a damn good pilot are the only things that really bugged me some parts felt rushed like hitting skip on a dvd
What do you mean?
Luke had established himself as a good pilot multiple times in dialogue, and he never used the Jedi Mind Trick until Return of the Jedi, and it's implied that there's a long time gap between Empire Strikes Back and RotJ in which Luke completes his Jedi training, even constructing his own light sabre
Luke had established himself as a good pilot multiple times in dialogue, and he never used the Jedi Mind Trick until Return of the Jedi, and it's implied that there's a long time gap between Empire Strikes Back and RotJ in which Luke completes his Jedi training, even constructing his own light sabre
thats exactly what i mean. it does the time skip in all the movies.
But I don't think that's what punisherswar meant.. I could be wrong here, but...
Finn sees his first combat ever --> he's now capable of pulling off a successful escape in a devastatingly well-armed fortress literally minutes later.
Finn has presumably never had any experience with a blade-style weapon --> his first fight is successful with a light sabrealbeit just barely
Rey finds out the force is real --> 10 minutes later of screentime and presuming she's never once attempted using the force before, she's reading Kylo Ren's mind (and preventing the vice versa through willpower, apparently)
Kylo angrily leaves the interrogation room and allows Rey to be guarded with a soldier --> Rey can suddenly pull off a Master-level Jedi Mind Trick on her second attempt at it
The Original Trilogy didn't have this kind of rapid progression. Luke finds out about the force, he's terrible at it until RotJ... Remember it took every ounce of his concentration just to move his light sabre in the ice cave, and even then that's with Obi Wan's guidance.
There were few major time leaps, and the few they had were well implied, except perhaps for Han Solo and Leia's imprisonment on Cloud City.
Finn sees his first combat ever --> he's now capable of pulling off a successful escape in a devastatingly well-armed fortress literally minutes later.
Finn has presumably never had any experience with a blade-style weapon --> his first fight is successful with a light sabrealbeit just barely
Rey finds out the force is real --> 10 minutes later of screentime and presuming she's never once attempted using the force before, she's reading Kylo Ren's mind (and preventing the vice versa through willpower, apparently)
Kylo angrily leaves the interrogation room and allows Rey to be guarded with a soldier --> Rey can suddenly pull off a Master-level Jedi Mind Trick on her second attempt at it
The Original Trilogy didn't have this kind of rapid progression. Luke finds out about the force, he's terrible at it until RotJ... Remember it took every ounce of his concentration just to move his light sabre in the ice cave, and even then that's with Obi Wan's guidance.
There were few major time leaps, and the few they had were well implied, except perhaps for Han Solo and Leia's imprisonment on Cloud City.
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LarsGoes (01/08/2016) [-]
1) kylo was heavily wounded(you can see what that crossbow thingy does on multiple occasinos in the film) and maybe even didn't want to win, like vader in empire. 2) Her vision points towards being trained by luke when the knights of ren attack. so she seems to have had some experience already and has been kinda mind wiped or something (my theory.)
I'd assumed that it largely had to do with the fact that Ren was not fully trained either, in addition to his already taking a lighsaber to the arm and a bowcaster to the gut. (He was punching himself in the gut to deaden the nerves as he was already in a world of pain) As for Finn getting a hit in on him, maybe he extrapolated some techniques from his stun-baton training with the first order.
Beating Kylo was more down to him bleeding out, having been fought by Finn, and blinded by rage while she had a level head. The Jedi Mind Trick thing throws me off tho. I think she may have been one of Luke's students, or on her way to becoming one and getting shown neat tricks as a baby that she never got right and one of them she perfected was the mind-trick. That's my theory anyhow.
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ygdosst ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
The Sith Interrogation technique opens up a two-way channel when used on someone that's force sensitive. This fact is why many Jedi can end up falling to the dark side as a result of sith torture as the Jedi can be forcefed the results of the Sith's memories and experiences, their spite and anger.
Someone that doesn't have full control of their powers, is poorly trained, or is off their guard, such as an impulsive cunt who doesn't know how to identify a force sensive e.g. Kylo Ren, this channel can basically be Hijacked and reversed.
Essentially Rei was able to absorb knowledge of what a mind trick was and how it worked, especially as it was only tue surface thoughts of Kylo's mind, since he was currently in the process of it; as well as other basic **** like redirecting a lightsaber already in motion.
This is because It's very similar to a force-bond the Jedi develop, but this of course is unwilling and used to malicious ends like many things the Sith adapt.
You also have the distict possibility that she grew up next to a tree that helps develop or increase force sensitivity, since there are a lot of low-key connections related to the Force-Sensitive Tree shown in the Clone Wars cartoons and continued in the Comic prequel to Episode VII. So any kind of extreme force sensitivity means she would able to do a lot with the limited knowledge she had, even though she partially ****** up twice at the mind trick because of a lack of personal skill.
Someone that doesn't have full control of their powers, is poorly trained, or is off their guard, such as an impulsive cunt who doesn't know how to identify a force sensive e.g. Kylo Ren, this channel can basically be Hijacked and reversed.
Essentially Rei was able to absorb knowledge of what a mind trick was and how it worked, especially as it was only tue surface thoughts of Kylo's mind, since he was currently in the process of it; as well as other basic **** like redirecting a lightsaber already in motion.
This is because It's very similar to a force-bond the Jedi develop, but this of course is unwilling and used to malicious ends like many things the Sith adapt.
You also have the distict possibility that she grew up next to a tree that helps develop or increase force sensitivity, since there are a lot of low-key connections related to the Force-Sensitive Tree shown in the Clone Wars cartoons and continued in the Comic prequel to Episode VII. So any kind of extreme force sensitivity means she would able to do a lot with the limited knowledge she had, even though she partially ****** up twice at the mind trick because of a lack of personal skill.
People use the Force with no training all the time. Ren was severely wounded by getting his ribs cracked apart by one of the most powerful handheld weapons in the galaxy.
Training to use the force is all about emptying your mind, being in as natural a state as possible. For someone who's lived in the desert their whole life struggling to survive, it comes easy.
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niggledafiggle (01/08/2016) [-]
For Jedi yes. But the whole difference between them and the Sith, is that the Sith draw on the most powerful of emotions when using the force. Whether that be anger, love, fear etc. Almost the opposite of emptying your mind to achieve serenity.
In a moment when Kylo is full of emotion (anger, hate, fear... take your pick) having an untrained force user suddenly beat him is surprising and seems a bit out of place. Whether it be from his more extensive training or being in his darkside 'element'.
Just my 2 cents though, open to interpretation.
In a moment when Kylo is full of emotion (anger, hate, fear... take your pick) having an untrained force user suddenly beat him is surprising and seems a bit out of place. Whether it be from his more extensive training or being in his darkside 'element'.
Just my 2 cents though, open to interpretation.
Even so, the entire of using the force is returning to as natural a state of pure emotion as possible, all she was feeling was emotion.
the entire theory behind using the force, sorry stopped typing in the middle and didnt re-read
in the books, that's kind of the point
luke and anakin both had very chaotic minds, good and even exempted
she's naturally peaceful.
luke and anakin both had very chaotic minds, good and even exempted
she's naturally peaceful.
no, what i'm saying is that teaching them to feel individual, primal emotions was hard, and it was just her basic nature. The force is only hard if the user makes it hard.
I wish i was as smart as you but thanks for repeating what everyone else already said it definitely made you look intelligent i was well aware he was wounded but finn shouldn't have been able to ******* touch him and rey shouldn't be able to rival him in the force it would've been better if they lost and chewy came in with the falcon and forced kylo ren to retreat
Finn literally lost to another storm trooper rip to the most loyal of soldiers kylo ren was trained with a saber and he couldve flat out crushed him with the force as for rey i could see her standing up to him with a saber but she in no way should have rivaled him in force powers ultimately she should have lost
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anon (01/08/2016) [-]
As far as I know, sith tend to be arrogant and pretentious with their enemies. He hisar didn't expect either of them to be dangerous so he might just have decided to "play" with them? The surprise of rye using the force just made him unstable for the rest of the fight (just my theory...)
Finn was fighting one of his brothers essentially, it's cannon the one he fought was FN2199 aka 'nines' aka Finn's subordinate. Finn was the leader of a squad, 'Nines' and 'Slip' (the one who spread blood across his visor in the first 10 minutes) and another were all trained together and fought together closely, with Finn as their leader. Phasma was seriously considering fast tracking Finn to become a higher up but was stopped by Finn's inability to put the mission before his fellow soldiers, he was too empathetic.
... But why in the movie did they have Finn as a trash collector? I mean, we're lead to believe the assault on Jakku was Finn's first ever combat mission; how did they think to give him a squad? also, that'd make him an NCO, by army standards, unless you meant fire-team rather than squad, but I genuinely don't know. I never heard this before
It just doesn't make sense for a soldier with any form of combat experience to immediately defect like that. This is something that strongly bothered me in the film: Did the First Order not educate him in First Order propaganda? First Order mind control? If the First Order is supposed to be synonymous with North Korea the same way that the Galactic Empire was synonymous to Nazi Germany, as has been suggested in a few media outlets and doesn't make sense when you consider the bitter hatred between fascism and communism why didn't Finn show at least some signs of regret? Some signs that he was destroying everything he has ever known? It doesn't make any sense and honestly makes Finn's character entirely too 2-dimensional he's either asserting that he's in chorge or asking if you gotta boi-frend .
Am I over thinking this, or am I just expecting way too ******* much from JJ Abrams?
It just doesn't make sense for a soldier with any form of combat experience to immediately defect like that. This is something that strongly bothered me in the film: Did the First Order not educate him in First Order propaganda? First Order mind control? If the First Order is supposed to be synonymous with North Korea the same way that the Galactic Empire was synonymous to Nazi Germany, as has been suggested in a few media outlets and doesn't make sense when you consider the bitter hatred between fascism and communism why didn't Finn show at least some signs of regret? Some signs that he was destroying everything he has ever known? It doesn't make any sense and honestly makes Finn's character entirely too 2-dimensional he's either asserting that he's in chorge or asking if you gotta boi-frend .
Am I over thinking this, or am I just expecting way too ******* much from JJ Abrams?
I hope you're trolling cause honestly you sound like a massive faggot
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anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey is an "established belee fighter". Guess what? Using a staff is a thing, using a weapon that has NO COUNTERWEIGHT is another thing.
But you're a fanboy, your only experience with reality and fighting is probably coming only from videogames or movies, so guess you're just talking about ******** like inner strenght and similar.
Because fighting properly, like Kylo is hinted to be trained at, require training. A lot. Menage breathing through the swings, the proper moves, it's not a thing taht you pick up.
And if you say taht the blaster had this impact, how come he can STAND, or even WALK. **** you fanboy.
But you're a fanboy, your only experience with reality and fighting is probably coming only from videogames or movies, so guess you're just talking about ******** like inner strenght and similar.
Because fighting properly, like Kylo is hinted to be trained at, require training. A lot. Menage breathing through the swings, the proper moves, it's not a thing taht you pick up.
And if you say taht the blaster had this impact, how come he can STAND, or even WALK. **** you fanboy.
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ygdosst ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Lightsabers are actually incredibly well balanced and light-weight by virtue of essentially being made of crystals and aluminum, with the blade being made of energy, therefor not needing counter-weight AT ALL
You can't apply standard medieval weaponry logic to Sci-fi tech. It'd be one thing if you were talking about vibroblades, but light sabers are entirely different from normal swords. Especially when many of the arts based around it reflect real life staff or rattan stick martial arts, as it's a balanced light-weight object involving a lot of collisions between weapons, and revolving around landing a single solid blow.
You can't apply standard medieval weaponry logic to Sci-fi tech. It'd be one thing if you were talking about vibroblades, but light sabers are entirely different from normal swords. Especially when many of the arts based around it reflect real life staff or rattan stick martial arts, as it's a balanced light-weight object involving a lot of collisions between weapons, and revolving around landing a single solid blow.
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anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Man, do you even know what you're talking about?
You know what is the counterweight I'm talking about is the SWORD? Not the hilt?
You know that you can't balance a hilt right? Becuase the lever principle? You can't belance because the lever has NO WEIGHT.
You can't simply say that the hilt is balanced, because the part that need balancing is not the hilt, but the "energy beam".
Source: physics degree.
You know what is the counterweight I'm talking about is the SWORD? Not the hilt?
You know that you can't balance a hilt right? Becuase the lever principle? You can't belance because the lever has NO WEIGHT.
You can't simply say that the hilt is balanced, because the part that need balancing is not the hilt, but the "energy beam".
Source: physics degree.
because hes a ******* space wizard who has the potential to be melted by thousand degree lava completely destroying his body inside and out and still be alive
and i dont know if you noticed but rey sucked at fighting with a lightsaber, she was barely able to hold her own until she "awoke" with the force
and i dont know if you noticed but rey sucked at fighting with a lightsaber, she was barely able to hold her own until she "awoke" with the force
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anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Where is the flaw?
We have on one side a trained swordmaster, able to kill all the padawans of Luke Skywalker, and he's lightly injuried. Because if it was heavy he would be dead, or limping, or at least show he's injuried. The only thing that reminds you that he's been shot he's that he hits himself, but this helps him, because canonically the dark side gains strenght from pain and hatred.
On the other side, Rey, a scavenger, first time wielding a lightsaber.
Please, don't circle around it, tell me. Where is the flaw?
We have on one side a trained swordmaster, able to kill all the padawans of Luke Skywalker, and he's lightly injuried. Because if it was heavy he would be dead, or limping, or at least show he's injuried. The only thing that reminds you that he's been shot he's that he hits himself, but this helps him, because canonically the dark side gains strenght from pain and hatred.
On the other side, Rey, a scavenger, first time wielding a lightsaber.
Please, don't circle around it, tell me. Where is the flaw?
i missed the notification
he does limp. and hes not "lightly injured", did you even watch the movie? the bowcaster sent troopers flying and all it did was bring him to his knees. thats some force **** right there. but he is still hurt really bad. he limps, he bleeds, his speed is slowed, he cant concentrate and use the force other than keeping his guts from spilling out.
rey is a melee fighter, we know this, it doesnt matter if the blade end is weightless, and plus shes force sensitive. and most likely, shes related to this lightsaber by blood. she sucked at fighting, but obviously if even finn could get 2 good hits in, ren is obviously ******* out of it.
your logic flaw is underestimating how much damage the bowcaster did to ren. because he still beat the **** out of finn and rey until the planet started splitting apart.
im seriously inclined to think youre trolling, nobody can be this stupid
he does limp. and hes not "lightly injured", did you even watch the movie? the bowcaster sent troopers flying and all it did was bring him to his knees. thats some force **** right there. but he is still hurt really bad. he limps, he bleeds, his speed is slowed, he cant concentrate and use the force other than keeping his guts from spilling out.
rey is a melee fighter, we know this, it doesnt matter if the blade end is weightless, and plus shes force sensitive. and most likely, shes related to this lightsaber by blood. she sucked at fighting, but obviously if even finn could get 2 good hits in, ren is obviously ******* out of it.
your logic flaw is underestimating how much damage the bowcaster did to ren. because he still beat the **** out of finn and rey until the planet started splitting apart.
im seriously inclined to think youre trolling, nobody can be this stupid
#64 to #62
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anon (01/08/2016) [-]
You're just name calling, expected from a fanboy like you.
The bowcaster should have killed him, we all saw it. Guess what? It didn't, and the force never showed, in any film that make you more resistent to damage.
You say that he limps, that he is slowed and can't concentrate.
I can accept it, and this would almost work, but two second before he just trashed Finn without problems, and Finn is a trained stormtrooper (The fact that he was a janitor doesn't take it from basic training).
You say that "It doesn't matter" that the sword is almost unwieldable.
Why doesn't it matter? Because you say so?
You just imply that she was enough trained to kill a master swordsman.
You just imply that he was THIS hurt.
But if he was this hurt, there is no reason for him to be walking at all. He should have died here and there. He didn't? Guess what, Star Wars lore is made that Dark Side users GAIN strainght from pain.
That's why he was punching himself every so often, to gain strenght. Guess it's useless to talk to you, you're just a rabid fanboy.
The bowcaster should have killed him, we all saw it. Guess what? It didn't, and the force never showed, in any film that make you more resistent to damage.
You say that he limps, that he is slowed and can't concentrate.
I can accept it, and this would almost work, but two second before he just trashed Finn without problems, and Finn is a trained stormtrooper (The fact that he was a janitor doesn't take it from basic training).
You say that "It doesn't matter" that the sword is almost unwieldable.
Why doesn't it matter? Because you say so?
You just imply that she was enough trained to kill a master swordsman.
You just imply that he was THIS hurt.
But if he was this hurt, there is no reason for him to be walking at all. He should have died here and there. He didn't? Guess what, Star Wars lore is made that Dark Side users GAIN strainght from pain.
That's why he was punching himself every so often, to gain strenght. Guess it's useless to talk to you, you're just a rabid fanboy.
The mind trick was pure ******** , but Kylo Ren had gotten shot in the side by an overpower explosive bowcaster that was capable of blowing up three stormtroopers just by shooting in their close proximity, and then he was in a sword fight with Finn and got hit a few times, so its not that far fetched
You also have: That Rey is descended from Luke (I think it hinted at?) so Kylo is her cousin and they both come from a family with strong connections to the force. When he tries the mind-trick on her it sort of *clicks* in place the heritage they both have from Darth Vader and it back-fires onto Kylo.
Dude it was made so ******* obvious that Luke is her father
Which is why some of us think it's not. It's too obvious
I think they're related. She is strongly in tune with the force. She gets flashbacks of being left behind by mystery parents. Luke's own lightsaber 'calls' to her. She has that *click* moment with Kylo when the force is used. Shes immediately adept with the use of a lightsaber, though could use some training, a trait shared by the family line. etc...
>kylo was injured from Chewie's crossbow shot
>Rey did seem to be adept enough at using her staff
And as for my own theory:
Kylo never finished his training, and therefore may not have much or any experience with lightsaber vs lightsaber combat.
>Rey did seem to be adept enough at using her staff
And as for my own theory:
Kylo never finished his training, and therefore may not have much or any experience with lightsaber vs lightsaber combat.
#20 to #13
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IamPinhead (01/08/2016) [-]
Being able to whip a stick around and using a laser sword aren't the same thing, though.
Being able to swing things at crippled dudes isn't hard. She was clumsy with it until she summoned the Force.
And she did some overswinging parries that weren't particularly effective against Ren's onslaught, but probably would have worked nicely with a staff. She also tried to poke with just about every attack series as though she were lunging with a spear or a staff.
She didn't fend Kylo off. She got beat down and pushed back by a superior yet crippled opponent, and only beat him when she summoned the Force and let it guide her movements, just as she had when she pulled off that otherwise impossible maneuver in the Falcon that let Finn shoot a moving target with a broken turret. It was foreshadowed.
Luke probably could have done the same thing with his minimal training on Bespin, against a far-more-powerful-than-Ren Vader, but he was too distracted by his own urge to save his friends and Vader keeping him off balance with Dun Moch tactics. Rey shut out all her distractions and let the Force flow through her, just as Luke did when he made that otherwise impossible shot to destroy the Death Star.
Luke probably could have done the same thing with his minimal training on Bespin, against a far-more-powerful-than-Ren Vader, but he was too distracted by his own urge to save his friends and Vader keeping him off balance with Dun Moch tactics. Rey shut out all her distractions and let the Force flow through her, just as Luke did when he made that otherwise impossible shot to destroy the Death Star.
And there's another thing- she shouldn't have at all been able to summon up the force like she did. She's not a ******* Jedi, she hasn't had the training to properly clear the mind to use the light side of the force, ESPECIALLY considering she in no way was in a peaceful environment. She was in the middle of a battle for her life and she was just like "lol it chill".
There's a reason that Jedi train years for that kind of thing- a completely calm mind, like the sort needed to let the force guide your movements, is not a thing that comes naturally.
There's a reason that Jedi train years for that kind of thing- a completely calm mind, like the sort needed to let the force guide your movements, is not a thing that comes naturally.
There's more out there in the galaxy than Sith and Jedi, and they get by just fine without huge temples, highly organized training, or formalized doctrines. There's shamans of primitive tribes who use the force to heal wounds, cure diseases, and see the future, stuff even Jedi often find tough to do.
Rey lived a sparse, rote, very zen existence while waiting patiently for her parents. Instead of looking to the horizon for adventure and glory, she waited. She was basically a Jedi already. And, she only ever did what Luke had done several times during A New Hope, with equally non-existent training, let the Force flow through you. It's the most basic concept of non-Dark Side Force use, so of course it came easily to her. People do it all the time without even realizing they're Force-sensitive, just thinking they're lucky or especially skilled.
Rey lived a sparse, rote, very zen existence while waiting patiently for her parents. Instead of looking to the horizon for adventure and glory, she waited. She was basically a Jedi already. And, she only ever did what Luke had done several times during A New Hope, with equally non-existent training, let the Force flow through you. It's the most basic concept of non-Dark Side Force use, so of course it came easily to her. People do it all the time without even realizing they're Force-sensitive, just thinking they're lucky or especially skilled.
You're right on the first bit- these kinds of things canonically exist, there's no question about it. They also tend to do these things in calm environments where they can actually use the light side of the force.
Ray was in a heated battle, and had just before been pretty emotionally controlled. She certainly should not have been able to almost instantly calm her mind and let the force flow through her. And those tribals that use the force? They train with it, still. They don't go through the jedi training or sith training, but they go through their own.
As for luke doing the same thing, he did it with the spiritual guidance of Obi-Wan Kenobi, as well as already knowing exactly what had to happen (I'm assuming that you're talking about the destruction of the death star. It was already known where the bomb had to go). He also wasn't locked in melee combat with a trained opponent- he was focusing on a specific point that he knew had to be destroyed.
Ray was in a heated battle, and had just before been pretty emotionally controlled. She certainly should not have been able to almost instantly calm her mind and let the force flow through her. And those tribals that use the force? They train with it, still. They don't go through the jedi training or sith training, but they go through their own.
As for luke doing the same thing, he did it with the spiritual guidance of Obi-Wan Kenobi, as well as already knowing exactly what had to happen (I'm assuming that you're talking about the destruction of the death star. It was already known where the bomb had to go). He also wasn't locked in melee combat with a trained opponent- he was focusing on a specific point that he knew had to be destroyed.
That would be damned cool if that were the case
I doubt it's gonna go that way, but it would be an amazing twist
I doubt it's gonna go that way, but it would be an amazing twist
And yet, as I mentioned earlier, untrained people use the Force all the time, doing the same things she did, without even realizing they're using the Force. Rey knows the Force exists, knows what Jedi are and what they can do, received a Force vision that quite likely imparted plenty of knowledge into her. All of that crystallized in one moment where she let go, and then proceeded to use the most primal, basic implementation of the Force that anybody with the potential can do. Anakin was channeling the Force and doing ridiculous things at 8 years-old, to the point where even his mother realized he had to have special powers. **** like what Rey did has been in the canon for over a decade, such that even Star Wars tabletop RPGs create mechanics to emulate it. The Force lets you do crazy, impossible **** , whether you have training or not. Luke couldn't lift an X-Wing, even with a tranquil environment, because he didn't believe he could. Rey defeated a wounded Kylo Ren because she let go of her doubt.
Outside of Anakin (who can be discounted because he literally prophesied to be immensely powerful, in order to bring balance to the force. He's essentially a force sock puppet) when have we seen untrained force-sensitive beings use the force in controlled ways? What she did wasn't a primal thing, it was becoming one with the force to become an incredible fighter.
Luke couldn't lift an x-wing in a tranquil environment because he wasn't balanced, and thus neither side of the force quite called to him.
And Rey knowing what Jedi are and what they can do is ******** . She didn't even believe in them before Han told her about them.
Luke couldn't lift an x-wing in a tranquil environment because he wasn't balanced, and thus neither side of the force quite called to him.
And Rey knowing what Jedi are and what they can do is ******** . She didn't even believe in them before Han told her about them.
^this, also I'm pretty sure theyre trying to ship the whole "force awakening" as the force literally using her as a living conduit to do OP **** .
The dude tanked a ******* crossbow shot. That **** was ragdolling people left and right the whole movie. Plus there's the fact that the guy was stressed after killing his dad, he hadn't finished his training, and he's a little bitch in the first place. Plus Rey might be luke's kid/padawan and is good with a staff. You could kind of see how she was jabbing as if she was using her staff.
i thought the fact that when he killed solo the anger and the wound would "boost" his sith powers, since the siths harness their powers from hatred and pain. for example, he kept punching his wound so he could get pumped up for the fight and get the emotions coming
This is true, but Kylo was so conflicted about his involvement with the Dark Side throughout the entire movie. I think he couldn't harness the full potential of those things because he hadn't yet completed his Sith training. He punched the wound multiple times throughout the fight with Rey, as if trying to get that pain to " 'boost' his sith powers" as you put it.
I hate this argument of "Oh. Rey is good with a staff so she must be okay with a saber."
No. Just no. It's explicitly stated in canon that using a Lightsaber is nothing like using any other kind of weapon. For one thing, it's completely unbalanced. The blade is completely weightless, all the weight is in the handle. And that changes the entire style. You couldn't go from fighting with a perfectly weighted staff to fighting with a weightless blade and still be good. You'd have to practice and practice with it.
There's reasons that Jedi and Sith were trained for years. There's a reason Luke barely swung the saber around much when he first got it. Because you cant just pick it up and be good. It's unlike any weapon ever.
No. Just no. It's explicitly stated in canon that using a Lightsaber is nothing like using any other kind of weapon. For one thing, it's completely unbalanced. The blade is completely weightless, all the weight is in the handle. And that changes the entire style. You couldn't go from fighting with a perfectly weighted staff to fighting with a weightless blade and still be good. You'd have to practice and practice with it.
There's reasons that Jedi and Sith were trained for years. There's a reason Luke barely swung the saber around much when he first got it. Because you cant just pick it up and be good. It's unlike any weapon ever.
The light sabre handling didn't bother me. It was the fact she could pilot the millennium falcon so well with no experience, know where every fuse and sprocket of multiple starships from just scavenging 30 year old rust buckets and the fact she could master the force faster than Luke did while training under yoda. There's suspension of disbelief but all that was a bit much. Film was epic otherwise.
#7 to #2
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woodoo (01/08/2016) [-]
My personal headcanon is that Kylo Ren fell to the dark side because he was so garbage at using the force that he was willing to take any shortcut to actually get good. The reason why Rey managed to out-force him is simply because Rey is as strong as an average force user, while Ren only got training because he was solos son, and had some minor force powers. Would also explain why he throws whiny hissyfits when things don't go his way, and how he could get btfo'd by an untrained scavenger and a stormtrooper who struggled to take on another stormtrooper 1 on 1.
vader did block han's blast with his hand
although i think in EU his suit had blaster protection or something
although i think in EU his suit had blaster protection or something
#21 to #16
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IamPinhead (01/08/2016) [-]
You know that scene in Resurrection of F where Freeza socks Goku in the face, but Goku just turns back with his fist still on his face like Freeza ain't **** ? That was badass, but how much more sense would it have made to just move out of the way?
One of the popular theories is that Rey was one of Luke's jedi padawans. This helps explain her quick acclamation to force powers and how Kylo seemed suspicious when someone mentioned that there was a girl. Certainly Kylo would have never admitted that someone got away from him when he killed the other padawans.
Deus Ex Machina and probably a strong connection to the force. It's -possible-. As for beating Kylo. Well... He was already wounded... And is a whiny bitch so...
#32 to #4
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donfailed ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
He's being a whiny little bitch who took a bowcaster bolt to the gut on top of being really losing his **** after killing his dad. The Force, from what I understand, kind of works like psychic powers. You've got to focus pretty hard to use said abilities properly, and he was having a bigger emotional episode than normal, hence the "Light is tempting me" line.
so possibly were gonna see her with a dualblades saber?
#36 to #11
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masdercheef (01/08/2016) [-]
>>#35, Hoping for a saber pike, honestly. Saberstaff would be cool too, though.
It'll be a double-sided lightsaber, color probably yellow/orange.
trying to use a lightsaber like a quarter staff would have caused her to lose her hand.
i havnt seen the movie, but in general things you dont need actual formal training to learn things. sometimes self training is actually better because your teaching yourself the best way for you to do it, and not the best way for someone else to do it.
She didn't have self training. She didn't have any training at all.
Until like 30 minutes before she became OP, she didn't even believe the force existed at all, and certainly hadn't had training to properly resist force attacks.
She had 0 training with a lightsaber, which- like has been pointed out many times in this thread- is completely unlike any weapon due to the blade not having any mass.
Yet, somehow, she was completely in touch with the light side of the force (which Jedi train for years on end to do) and was able to wreck the **** of someone who actually trained. Sure, he was hit with a bowcaster, but he's still shown to be powerful (easily doing force tricks we haven't seen that would have been really helpful to masters of the dark side).
Until like 30 minutes before she became OP, she didn't even believe the force existed at all, and certainly hadn't had training to properly resist force attacks.
She had 0 training with a lightsaber, which- like has been pointed out many times in this thread- is completely unlike any weapon due to the blade not having any mass.
Yet, somehow, she was completely in touch with the light side of the force (which Jedi train for years on end to do) and was able to wreck the **** of someone who actually trained. Sure, he was hit with a bowcaster, but he's still shown to be powerful (easily doing force tricks we haven't seen that would have been really helpful to masters of the dark side).