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Jedi school tuition fees skyrocketed

each generation dfjeni is
progressively less prepared for
their first duel
Anakin: I have had years of
training from the Jedi Order
Luke: I trained... for like 3
days with an
old dude
Rey: What' s this ******
glowstick lei
...
+1191
Views: 36356
Favorited: 63
Submitted: 01/07/2016
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+83
#14 - yugiohkris ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
GIF
I remember preparing for my first duel.
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+2
#226 to #14 - chokebee (01/08/2016) [-]
I bet it took him like two weeks alone to get the hair done.
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+29
#34 to #14 - sexyhimself (01/08/2016) [-]
Hang the **** on, we have a Yu-Gi-Oh themed user that is also a mod!?
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+1
User avatar #193 to #34 - yugiohkris ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I'm not a themed account , I just post yugioh sometimes.
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+2
#194 to #193 - sexyhimself (01/08/2016) [-]
Good enough for me
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+317
User avatar #2 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
This is what bothered me most about the film. Actual spoilers how could rey possibly beat Kylo Ren or use the jedi mind trick with no training
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+6
User avatar #3 to #2 - chris chris ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
i havnt seen the movie, but in general things you dont need actual formal training to learn things. sometimes self training is actually better because your teaching yourself the best way for you to do it, and not the best way for someone else to do it.
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+9
#10 to #3 - Crax (01/08/2016) [-]
Well it depends on what you're learning. You can practice something for years and years, but if you're practicing wrong then you're still not gonna get any better.
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-1
User avatar #127 to #3 - ilovehitler (01/08/2016) [-]
She didn't have self training. She didn't have any training at all.
Until like 30 minutes before she became OP, she didn't even believe the force existed at all, and certainly hadn't had training to properly resist force attacks.
She had 0 training with a lightsaber, which- like has been pointed out many times in this thread- is completely unlike any weapon due to the blade not having any mass.
Yet, somehow, she was completely in touch with the light side of the force (which Jedi train for years on end to do) and was able to wreck the **** of someone who actually trained. Sure, he was hit with a bowcaster, but he's still shown to be powerful (easily doing force tricks we haven't seen that would have been really helpful to masters of the dark side).
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+5
User avatar #125 to #2 - sanitarysan ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
because it's the current year
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-5
User avatar #149 to #2 - sympathyfordevil (01/08/2016) [-]
Yea this made Kylo Ren seem like a pussy :/
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+9
User avatar #154 to #149 - viscerys ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
But he was supposed to be a pussy.
Too scared to make his own decisions, and too scared to take any responsibility for how he is.
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0
#211 to #154 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
yes he is a lame character
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0
User avatar #208 to #2 - drtrousersnake ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Because she is a strong independent woman that can do anything a man can doexcept pee standing up
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-1
#173 to #2 - gnomepoacher (01/08/2016) [-]
Personally, I think that after being exposed to the ability she was made aware of the opportunities of the force, and then attempted it herself. Then later on again in the fight she connects with the force and is able to best him.
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+1
User avatar #197 to #173 - wertologist ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Except Kylo never used a mind trick on her so she just learned it out of nowhere in a matter of minutes. Kylo was using a form of force torture to get her to talk. Mind tricks don't cause agonizing pain like Rey and Po were in. If mind tricks hurt, the Jedi wouldn't have been using them all the time. The only mind trick in the movie was when Rey suddenly learned it and used it.
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#219 to #197 - gnomepoacher (01/08/2016) [-]
That's true, I misremembered what he was doing.
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+1
User avatar #222 to #219 - wertologist ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
It's fine. A lot of people thought the same thing. It's just best to keep in mind that Sith tend to use force abilities that can/will hurt or kill. If someone uses the force on someone and they are in pain, it's not a light side power.
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-3
User avatar #95 to #2 - enlightednatzie (01/08/2016) [-]
*fart*
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-3
#97 to #95 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
HHHHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, you sure are hilarious you ******* loser, i hope you never stay out of college and make something of your life

-love totality son 09009090=)
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+1
User avatar #74 to #2 - zaperzero ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Beating Kylo was more down to him bleeding out, having been fought by Finn, and blinded by rage while she had a level head. The Jedi Mind Trick thing throws me off tho. I think she may have been one of Luke's students, or on her way to becoming one and getting shown neat tricks as a baby that she never got right and one of them she perfected was the mind-trick. That's my theory anyhow.
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+4
#93 to #74 - mortok (01/08/2016) [-]
Eh, they're gonna pull out the whole she's Lukes daughter, so shes the strongest jedi ever thing
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+2
User avatar #174 to #93 - zaperzero ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Or Obis Wan's daughter. :0
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+2
#177 to #174 - mortok (01/08/2016) [-]
That would be cool, but in the movie Luke is already super old, as is the rest of the gang. If Obiwan had a child, even if it was near the end of his life, Rey would have to be older. So i hiiiiiiiiiiighly doubt she's gonna be Obi Wans daughter
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User avatar #249 to #177 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
lets not forget that Anakin was conceived by ******* microscopic nano-organisms. It's completely possible that Rey is Ben's daughter; it's far from the most far fetch thing proposed.
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#254 to #249 - mortok (01/09/2016) [-]
That being said, i doubt it
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User avatar #178 to #177 - zaperzero ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Perhaps his grand daughter. There are many ways it could go.
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+7
#31 to #2 - sensitive (01/08/2016) [-]
could be the force itself is taking a more active role in the conflict? "the force awakens"?

im probably wrong. someone post the han solo "thats not how the force works" pic
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+15
User avatar #19 to #2 - admiralen ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
The mind trick was pure ******** , but Kylo Ren had gotten shot in the side by an overpower explosive bowcaster that was capable of blowing up three stormtroopers just by shooting in their close proximity, and then he was in a sword fight with Finn and got hit a few times, so its not that far fetched
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+6
User avatar #37 to #19 - Shramin (01/08/2016) [-]
Genuine spoiler stuff ----->>>>>> it seemed to be implied in the scene where Kylo interrogates Rey that the force technique backfired and she saw what he was hiding instead of the other way around. I suspect that was how she figured out the mind trick.
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User avatar #39 to #37 - admiralen ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Thats stretching it superfar
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User avatar #42 to #39 - cursedjester (01/08/2016) [-]
You also have: That Rey is descended from Luke (I think it hinted at?) so Kylo is her cousin and they both come from a family with strong connections to the force. When he tries the mind-trick on her it sort of *clicks* in place the heritage they both have from Darth Vader and it back-fires onto Kylo.
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User avatar #47 to #42 - Shramin (01/08/2016) [-]
I don't think so, a padawan perhaps but not related
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User avatar #68 to #47 - cursedjester (01/08/2016) [-]
I think they're related. She is strongly in tune with the force. She gets flashbacks of being left behind by mystery parents. Luke's own lightsaber 'calls' to her. She has that *click* moment with Kylo when the force is used. Shes immediately adept with the use of a lightsaber, though could use some training, a trait shared by the family line. etc...
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User avatar #88 to #47 - eklipsbrate ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Dude it was made so ******* obvious that Luke is her father
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User avatar #221 to #88 - kittywithclaws ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Which is why some of us think it's not. It's too obvious
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#113 to #37 - itskookoo ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
this is how i understood the scene when i watched it
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+16
User avatar #6 to #2 - thefates ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
One of the popular theories is that Rey was one of Luke's jedi padawans. This helps explain her quick acclamation to force powers and how Kylo seemed suspicious when someone mentioned that there was a girl. Certainly Kylo would have never admitted that someone got away from him when he killed the other padawans.
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+38
User avatar #9 to #2 - kinginthenorthh ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
The dude tanked a ******* crossbow shot. That **** was ragdolling people left and right the whole movie. Plus there's the fact that the guy was stressed after killing his dad, he hadn't finished his training, and he's a little bitch in the first place. Plus Rey might be luke's kid/padawan and is good with a staff. You could kind of see how she was jabbing as if she was using her staff.
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+20
User avatar #91 to #9 - euskippy ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I hate this argument of "Oh. Rey is good with a staff so she must be okay with a saber."

No. Just no. It's explicitly stated in canon that using a Lightsaber is nothing like using any other kind of weapon. For one thing, it's completely unbalanced. The blade is completely weightless, all the weight is in the handle. And that changes the entire style. You couldn't go from fighting with a perfectly weighted staff to fighting with a weightless blade and still be good. You'd have to practice and practice with it.

There's reasons that Jedi and Sith were trained for years. There's a reason Luke barely swung the saber around much when he first got it. Because you cant just pick it up and be good. It's unlike any weapon ever.
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User avatar #114 to #91 - klaes (01/08/2016) [-]
If you don't mind me asking, where in the canon does it state that? It makes sense but I'm curious
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+5
User avatar #122 to #114 - euskippy ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Well **** everything. I went to go get your sources and it's all in the now dropped EU. So I guess Sabers can now be whatever the **** Disney and Jew Jew want them to be.

It's still ******* silly tho
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User avatar #192 to #122 - cheatman (01/08/2016) [-]
The light sabre handling didn't bother me. It was the fact she could pilot the millennium falcon so well with no experience, know where every fuse and sprocket of multiple starships from just scavenging 30 year old rust buckets and the fact she could master the force faster than Luke did while training under yoda. There's suspension of disbelief but all that was a bit much. Film was epic otherwise.
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User avatar #156 to #9 - hasai (01/08/2016) [-]
Didn't Rey at one point say that she hadn't heard about a guy called Luke Skywalker before? Or do I remember incorrectly?
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User avatar #158 to #156 - viscerys ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Luke Skywalker is pretty much a legend to everyone.
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User avatar #159 to #158 - hasai (01/08/2016) [-]
She didn't know about Han too, if I remember correctly, and Finn had to explain to her what he'd done for the rebellion.
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User avatar #160 to #159 - viscerys ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
She did know about Han, she just didn't recognise him straight away. When she was told it was Han, she was like
"Holy **** you're Han Solo, you did the Kessel Run in 14 parsecs"

It's 12 parsecs... Fourteen. Hmmph.
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+1
User avatar #162 to #160 - hasai (01/08/2016) [-]
Oh, you're right.
I also go thet Rey thing wrong, I looked at a transcript. She did 'know' about him, but assumed that he was a myth, which'd point to her not being one of his padawan.
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0
User avatar #118 to #9 - kiershar (01/08/2016) [-]
i thought the fact that when he killed solo the anger and the wound would "boost" his sith powers, since the siths harness their powers from hatred and pain. for example, he kept punching his wound so he could get pumped up for the fight and get the emotions coming
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+2
User avatar #123 to #118 - EpicFailures (01/08/2016) [-]
This is true, but Kylo was so conflicted about his involvement with the Dark Side throughout the entire movie. I think he couldn't harness the full potential of those things because he hadn't yet completed his Sith training. He punched the wound multiple times throughout the fight with Rey, as if trying to get that pain to " 'boost' his sith powers" as you put it.
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+8
User avatar #82 to #2 - batmanuel (01/08/2016) [-]
I'd assumed that it largely had to do with the fact that Ren was not fully trained either, in addition to his already taking a lighsaber to the arm and a bowcaster to the gut. (He was punching himself in the gut to deaden the nerves as he was already in a world of pain) As for Finn getting a hit in on him, maybe he extrapolated some techniques from his stun-baton training with the first order.
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#103 to #2 - bellrunner (01/08/2016) [-]
No idea about the mind control, but how the heck did Ren survive getting hit in the freaking side Chewbaka's blaster? That thing took out 3 storm troopers just by hiting the ground NEAR them.
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#227 to #2 - chokebee (01/08/2016) [-]
Good job dude, this comment is over 200 replies long.
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#184 to #2 - dubstroyer (01/08/2016) [-]
It made me believe The Force is more of a living thing than a sheer natural force like gravity or magnetism, and more like Thor's hammer, Mjolnir.
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+24
User avatar #13 to #2 - chaosascendingx ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
>kylo was injured from Chewie's crossbow shot
>Rey did seem to be adept enough at using her staff
And as for my own theory:
Kylo never finished his training, and therefore may not have much or any experience with lightsaber vs lightsaber combat.
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+13
#20 to #13 - IamPinhead (01/08/2016) [-]
Being able to whip a stick around and using a laser sword aren't the same thing, though.
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User avatar #30 to #20 - schneidend (01/08/2016) [-]
Being able to swing things at crippled dudes isn't hard. She was clumsy with it until she summoned the Force.
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User avatar #92 to #30 - euskippy ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
It is when the blade has no weight to it at all. If you were used to a balanced weapon like a staff, you'd overswing to **** . Not be able to block another lightsaber as it comes at you.
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User avatar #109 to #92 - schneidend (01/08/2016) [-]
And she did some overswinging parries that weren't particularly effective against Ren's onslaught, but probably would have worked nicely with a staff. She also tried to poke with just about every attack series as though she were lunging with a spear or a staff.
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User avatar #110 to #109 - euskippy ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
And should have not been able to fend Kylo off, never mind beat him.
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User avatar #111 to #110 - schneidend (01/08/2016) [-]
She didn't fend Kylo off. She got beat down and pushed back by a superior yet crippled opponent, and only beat him when she summoned the Force and let it guide her movements, just as she had when she pulled off that otherwise impossible maneuver in the Falcon that let Finn shoot a moving target with a broken turret. It was foreshadowed.

Luke probably could have done the same thing with his minimal training on Bespin, against a far-more-powerful-than-Ren Vader, but he was too distracted by his own urge to save his friends and Vader keeping him off balance with Dun Moch tactics. Rey shut out all her distractions and let the Force flow through her, just as Luke did when he made that otherwise impossible shot to destroy the Death Star.
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User avatar #126 to #111 - ilovehitler (01/08/2016) [-]
And there's another thing- she shouldn't have at all been able to summon up the force like she did. She's not a ******* Jedi, she hasn't had the training to properly clear the mind to use the light side of the force, ESPECIALLY considering she in no way was in a peaceful environment. She was in the middle of a battle for her life and she was just like "lol it chill".
There's a reason that Jedi train years for that kind of thing- a completely calm mind, like the sort needed to let the force guide your movements, is not a thing that comes naturally.
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+2
User avatar #183 to #126 - iamcraig (01/08/2016) [-]
The thing is, because the EU has been retconned, there's nothing to say people who have a connection with the force can't accidentally have it affect them like Harry Potter letting the snake out of the tank or setting a hedge on fire
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+1
User avatar #128 to #126 - schneidend (01/08/2016) [-]
There's more out there in the galaxy than Sith and Jedi, and they get by just fine without huge temples, highly organized training, or formalized doctrines. There's shamans of primitive tribes who use the force to heal wounds, cure diseases, and see the future, stuff even Jedi often find tough to do.

Rey lived a sparse, rote, very zen existence while waiting patiently for her parents. Instead of looking to the horizon for adventure and glory, she waited. She was basically a Jedi already. And, she only ever did what Luke had done several times during A New Hope, with equally non-existent training, let the Force flow through you. It's the most basic concept of non-Dark Side Force use, so of course it came easily to her. People do it all the time without even realizing they're Force-sensitive, just thinking they're lucky or especially skilled.
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User avatar #130 to #128 - ilovehitler (01/08/2016) [-]
You're right on the first bit- these kinds of things canonically exist, there's no question about it. They also tend to do these things in calm environments where they can actually use the light side of the force.
Ray was in a heated battle, and had just before been pretty emotionally controlled. She certainly should not have been able to almost instantly calm her mind and let the force flow through her. And those tribals that use the force? They train with it, still. They don't go through the jedi training or sith training, but they go through their own.

As for luke doing the same thing, he did it with the spiritual guidance of Obi-Wan Kenobi, as well as already knowing exactly what had to happen (I'm assuming that you're talking about the destruction of the death star. It was already known where the bomb had to go). He also wasn't locked in melee combat with a trained opponent- he was focusing on a specific point that he knew had to be destroyed.
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User avatar #157 to #130 - viscerys ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Maybe she was crazy angry, and her becoming powerful could hint at a dark future. Just spitballing, but I don't think it could be outside the realm of possibility.
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User avatar #252 to #157 - ilovehitler (01/09/2016) [-]
That would be damned cool if that were the case
I doubt it's gonna go that way, but it would be an amazing twist
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User avatar #133 to #130 - schneidend (01/08/2016) [-]
And yet, as I mentioned earlier, untrained people use the Force all the time, doing the same things she did, without even realizing they're using the Force. Rey knows the Force exists, knows what Jedi are and what they can do, received a Force vision that quite likely imparted plenty of knowledge into her. All of that crystallized in one moment where she let go, and then proceeded to use the most primal, basic implementation of the Force that anybody with the potential can do. Anakin was channeling the Force and doing ridiculous things at 8 years-old, to the point where even his mother realized he had to have special powers. **** like what Rey did has been in the canon for over a decade, such that even Star Wars tabletop RPGs create mechanics to emulate it. The Force lets you do crazy, impossible **** , whether you have training or not. Luke couldn't lift an X-Wing, even with a tranquil environment, because he didn't believe he could. Rey defeated a wounded Kylo Ren because she let go of her doubt.
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User avatar #141 to #133 - ilovehitler (01/08/2016) [-]
Outside of Anakin (who can be discounted because he literally prophesied to be immensely powerful, in order to bring balance to the force. He's essentially a force sock puppet) when have we seen untrained force-sensitive beings use the force in controlled ways? What she did wasn't a primal thing, it was becoming one with the force to become an incredible fighter.
Luke couldn't lift an x-wing in a tranquil environment because he wasn't balanced, and thus neither side of the force quite called to him.

And Rey knowing what Jedi are and what they can do is ******** . She didn't even believe in them before Han told her about them.
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+2
User avatar #15 to #13 - tacotrainone (01/08/2016) [-]
^this, also I'm pretty sure theyre trying to ship the whole "force awakening" as the force literally using her as a living conduit to do OP **** .
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User avatar #120 to #2 - sketchE ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
well ren does know how to fight. you think a lone girl on a scavver planet would be all nice and easy? not to mention ren should have died from bloodloss after taking a shot from chewy. i mean just try walking after giving blood. now ill kind of bend on the force ******* but i think it was meant kinda as she has an amazing force of will because of the life shes lived and shes likely the daughter of a great jedi and the granddaughter of one of the greatest force users ever. add in the fact that storm troopers are trained to follow orders without question
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+16
User avatar #12 to #2 - protomanrulezz ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
because strong female protagonist who don't need no man
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-20
#7 to #2 - woodoo (01/08/2016) [-]
My personal headcanon is that Kylo Ren fell to the dark side because he was so garbage at using the force that he was willing to take any shortcut to actually get good. The reason why Rey managed to out-force him is simply because Rey is as strong as an average force user, while Ren only got training because he was solos son, and had some minor force powers. Would also explain why he throws whiny hissyfits when things don't go his way, and how he could get btfo'd by an untrained scavenger and a stormtrooper who struggled to take on another stormtrooper 1 on 1.
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+72
#16 to #7 - saxong (01/08/2016) [-]
Remember how at the start of the movie he freezes Poe's blaster shot in mid-air?

Remember how anyone else did that ever?

Nice theory, doesn't live past the first 5 minutes though.
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+60
#17 to #16 - woodoo (01/08/2016) [-]
Pff, kylo clearly meant to forcechoke him and ended up screwing up. That's why he wears the mask, to mask the complete and utter look of shock on his face any time he actually manages to pull something off.
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+5
User avatar #116 to #16 - obviousxplains ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
vader did block han's blast with his hand
although i think in EU his suit had blaster protection or something
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#21 to #16 - IamPinhead (01/08/2016) [-]
You know that scene in Resurrection of F where Freeza socks Goku in the face, but Goku just turns back with his fist still on his face like Freeza ain't **** ? That was badass, but how much more sense would it have made to just move out of the way?
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#212 to #2 - thesweetscientist (01/08/2016) [-]
It's cause she was a jedi. Didn't anyone notice how Kylo reacted when he heard that there was a girl with Finn? My speculation is that she has some connection with Kylo (love interest, sister, etc.) and he didn't kill her along with the rest of the jedi he killed. Didn't anyone notice that she didn't speak ANYTHING of her past and that she's waiting for somebody, but she her self doesn't know who. Also, Jedi memory wipe.
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#220 to #212 - coolnamestaken (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey is Luke's daughter and Luke must have wiped her memory before leaving her on Jakku for safety purposes after Kylo defected.
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User avatar #229 to #220 - nurucio ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Theory going around that she's of Kenobi descent, which makes much more sense with the accent.

Speaking of kids though Kylo seriously looks NOTHING like Leia or Han and that bugs the **** out of me. Like I understand kids don't always look like their parents but where the hell did he come from, he has zero similar features
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#216 to #2 - krayon (01/08/2016) [-]
**krayon used "*roll picture*"**
**krayon rolled image** Or, and this gonna sound crazy but hear me out, but maybe just maybe the whole thing is a movie and they can do whatever the **** they want!
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User avatar #240 to #216 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/09/2016) [-]
Woah its almost like i have an opinion or something
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User avatar #170 to #2 - alucardhell (01/08/2016) [-]
First off, Kylo had been shot with a bowcaster which was powerful enough to send everyone else hit by it 10ft backwards and blowing off armor. He gets hit, takes a knee for a second, then stands up. At best he is at half strength and can't wield his lightsaber with correct form.
Next, Rey is clearly the daughter of a powerful jedi (most likely Obiwan), and if it is his daughter then we know that he is one with the Force, meaning it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to have started to guide her when she opened herself up to the living force.

Of course this is mostly just theorizing and rambling by a random Star Wars fan,so take it however you like.
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User avatar #230 to #170 - nurucio ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Too young to be Obi Wan's daughter, I do agree that she's most likely of Kenobi descent though, explains the accent, and his voice was also in her weird as **** laser stick acid trip
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User avatar #180 to #170 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
rey is absolutely not obi wans daughter she's probably lukes there's a few things pointing to this but im hoping she's hans
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User avatar #176 to #170 - hhhghhg ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
did you mean luke?, cause if shes obiwans kid shes way to young
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User avatar #247 to #176 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
nah, bro. Obi Wan used his "medi-chorians" to impregnate a hot desert whore during a demonstration to Anakin Anakin never again questioned Obi Wan on why he didn't know his own daddy
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#169 to #2 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Jedi mind trick I don't know.


As for Rey winning she had plenty of experience fighting with melee weapons already, though she still would have lost in a fair fight no doubt. Thing is though Kylo was shot by the same bowcaster that had previously killed 3 stormtroopers in 1 shot and lifted anyone it shot clean off their feet. He was barely able to stand and Rey still barely managed a "Win".
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User avatar #242 to #169 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
While its true that Rey was proficient with a melee weapon, it's not necessarily true to say she proficient with all melee weapons. Her weapon on Jakku resembled a staff, and as such I'm lead to believe she knows how to fight a particular sect of martial arts which use staffs as primary weaponry. But a sword is vastly different, and thus she'd have little to no proficiency in such weapon style. which lead me to think if Jar Jar Abrams will have Rey use a double-sided saber like Darth Maul, which I think would be ******* awesome

As for Kylo Ren getting shot, I don't remember the movie well enough to argue that; I dont remember if he got shot before or after already kicking Finn's unloyal ass

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#43 to #2 - ygdosst (01/08/2016) [-]
The Sith Interrogation technique opens up a two-way channel when used on someone that's force sensitive. This fact is why many Jedi can end up falling to the dark side as a result of sith torture as the Jedi can be forcefed the results of the Sith's memories and experiences, their spite and anger.

Someone that doesn't have full control of their powers, is poorly trained, or is off their guard, such as an impulsive cunt who doesn't know how to identify a force sensive e.g. Kylo Ren, this channel can basically be Hijacked and reversed.
Essentially Rei was able to absorb knowledge of what a mind trick was and how it worked, especially as it was only tue surface thoughts of Kylo's mind, since he was currently in the process of it; as well as other basic **** like redirecting a lightsaber already in motion.

This is because It's very similar to a force-bond the Jedi develop, but this of course is unwilling and used to malicious ends like many things the Sith adapt.

You also have the distict possibility that she grew up next to a tree that helps develop or increase force sensitivity, since there are a lot of low-key connections related to the Force-Sensitive Tree shown in the Clone Wars cartoons and continued in the Comic prequel to Episode VII. So any kind of extreme force sensitivity means she would able to do a lot with the limited knowledge she had, even though she partially ****** up twice at the mind trick because of a lack of personal skill.
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User avatar #147 to #2 - rainbowbear ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
The way I see it is that Rey and Finn managed to hold their own against Kylo is because their fighting with all the have and all their anger. They just witnessed a hero/father figure get straight up murdered by Kylo. Rey is also shown to be force sensitive and be extremely powerful in the force even without proper training. In Star Wars, it's not impossible. She is shown throughout the whole movie to be connected to the force on a deeper level than anyone we've seen in any of the films, even so far as to knowing Luke's location without even realizing it. Also Kylo Ren was trying to get her to join him, it's almost like the Bespin fight from Empire Strikes Back. Vader was just toying with Luke, getting him angry and wanting him to fall to the dark side. Kylo, at least I think, was trying to do the same. He injured her friend, killed Han Solo, and was tempting her to fight with anger, and join the dark side. And Kylo isn't very well trained it seems either, he's not even done with his Sith training based on what Snoke said. Now if Kylo Ren was supposed to be fully trained and at his maximum potential then I'd be pissed too.
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User avatar #161 to #147 - drpenguinz (01/08/2016) [-]
fight with all you have and all your anger against mike tyson
if someone is trained there is just no logic behind it someone untrained is a match for him unless you bring a gun to a fist fight or somethin
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#171 to #161 - amicoolnowmom (01/08/2016) [-]
Yeah, don't forget that Mike Tyson got shot with a ******* bowcaster and is barely staying conscious.
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User avatar #4 to #2 - sptnfouroneseven ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Deus Ex Machina and probably a strong connection to the force. It's -possible-. As for beating Kylo. Well... He was already wounded... And is a whiny bitch so...
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#5 to #4 - summers (01/08/2016) [-]
Read somewhere that also cuz Rey knows melee weapons, and tries to use lightsaber like a quarterstaff. Also because Kylo is a little bitch.
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User avatar #8 to #5 - peliaosfiendline (01/08/2016) [-]
trying to use a lightsaber like a quarter staff would have caused her to lose her hand.
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User avatar #11 to #5 - mcmanybucks (01/08/2016) [-]
so possibly were gonna see her with a dualblades saber?
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#36 to #11 - masdercheef (01/08/2016) [-]
>>#35, Hoping for a saber pike, honestly. Saberstaff would be cool too, though.
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User avatar #23 to #11 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I believe we will
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#35 to #23 - yoshtar (01/08/2016) [-]
I would put money on Rey developing a Saberstaff...

the real question is: What colour?
my three guesses would be. in order: Blue, Purple, Green.
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#70 to #35 - shaboom (01/08/2016) [-]
wont be purple
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User avatar #63 to #35 - sptnfouroneseven ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
It'll be a double-sided lightsaber, color probably yellow/orange.
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User avatar #49 to #35 - mcmanybucks (01/08/2016) [-]
I kinda hope purple..
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User avatar #38 to #35 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I actually think itll be yellow maybe blue
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#32 to #4 - donfailed ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
He's being a whiny little bitch who took a bowcaster bolt to the gut on top of being really losing his **** after killing his dad. The Force, from what I understand, kind of works like psychic powers. You've got to focus pretty hard to use said abilities properly, and he was having a bigger emotional episode than normal, hence the "Light is tempting me" line.
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User avatar #134 to #2 - kinkyjim (01/08/2016) [-]
If still interested, I'd just point out how much attention they gave Chewie's bowcaster throughout the film, about how good it was. Han said how much he liked it after he sent multiple stormtroopers to their death with one shot. Kylo Ren kinda took that to the stomach, it's surprising he could stand! He might have been holding his guts in!!
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#187 to #2 - starlordoriginal (01/08/2016) [-]
There's a much stronger version of the force that works in her favor. All force sensitive people can use, to a certain extent, "the force." But Rey taps into what is known as "The Plot Force," which is infinitely more powerful than the force and can perform miraculous feats that would be otherwise considered impossible.
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User avatar #131 to #2 - zhlandir ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Wasn't he like injured already and that's most likely why he lost not because Rey is strong or whatever?
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User avatar #214 to #2 - captnnorway ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Keep in mind he was hit in the gut by Chewies bowcaster. The very same weapon we've seen blast stormtroopers to hell in a single shot. Rey also had been fighting for probably most her life with that stick of hers, it's not like it was her first fight.

The mindtrick is ******** though, I agree with that. Unless somehow it's the simplest force trick and she somehow heard a legend about Jedis using it prior to it happening.
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User avatar #124 to #2 - mariox (01/08/2016) [-]
My two cents, I think that Kylo's use of the force on her mind awoke her inner ability to use it. Kind of The Sea Lion thing from Avatar (show) used light bending on Aang and he could then use it himself. Maybe the same principles apply here, use an ability to unlock it on other person who can the power hidden within them.
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#102 to #2 - madoc (01/08/2016) [-]
I know this article is lengthy but it's a worthwhile read. You're asking the right question, but consider there are still two movies to come that will provide answers. Episode 7 is all about characterbuilding and setting up for some really interesting revelations.

www.facebook.com/notes/matty-granger/at-long-lastmy-star-wars-episode-vii-review-the-force-awakens-the-rise-of-idiot-/10153163095086277
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User avatar #206 to #102 - billybongthornton (01/08/2016) [-]
There are far too many things that just get passed off as being potentially explained by Rey's past and so many simpletons are far too quick to just accept these things when we are supposed to be judging this movie on a standalone movie experience. When I watched A New Hope for the first time only a few crucial questions were raised, the Force Awakens is a *********** of stupid inconsistencies (Lukes BLUE lightsaber - aka the one he lost with his hand in cloud city - turning up etc) with previously established events and Star Wars lore/themes. As far as I am concerned, one of the big draws to the movies are the powerful Sith antagonists (Darth Maul taking on and essentially beating 2 jedi) and Kylo Ren is beyond a lost cause at this point having lost a fight to Rey who inexplicably knows the force in ways she couldnt possibly ******* know.
This article is a joke, many of the Huffington's plot holes exist and are inexcusable whether they are considered in the context of just Force Awakens or along with the other movies that are yet to be released. This guy is merely refuting them because of what could be explained in the future movies, but because of the terrible job that Abrams did of creating all of them in the first place I highly doubt many of them will be brought to light or answered for.
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#243 to #206 - madoc (01/09/2016) [-]
Well **** fun then, amiright? Jeez, just enjoy the movie.
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User avatar #105 to #2 - psykobear (01/08/2016) [-]
Thanks for mentioning that actual spoilers were in the spoiler tag.
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User avatar #94 to #2 - commentsins (01/08/2016) [-]
Correctly warning of spoilers? That's a win in my book. (!gniD) -1 sin
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User avatar #106 to #94 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
Oh no, a theme account of cinema sins? Which will be critiquing comments like an asshat?

Like that "nice meme bruh" asshole wasn't obnoxious enough.
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#79 to #2 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
I am hoping that when more of her past is revealed, we might find out some good reasons why she can do it. I mean, she obviously knows she's force-sensitive otherwise why would she have even tried the Jedi Mind Trick?
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User avatar #115 to #2 - nexuslament (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey did have to defend herself from bandits,and to be fair even if it was from a good distance getting shot by a bowcaster let alone a regular blaster will take it out of you.Not to mention having just "Done that thing everyone spoiled" As for the mind trick,i guess you could say it comes naturally to some people. But eh that part was really just script.
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User avatar #29 to #2 - schneidend (01/08/2016) [-]
People use the Force with no training all the time. Ren was severely wounded by getting his ribs cracked apart by one of the most powerful handheld weapons in the galaxy.
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User avatar #86 to #2 - megakillerx (01/08/2016) [-]
Maybe she's another chosen one?
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User avatar #101 to #2 - BrownBearninetysix ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Kylo did accidentally giver her access to his mind, which would have had training from light and dark side sources. Besides, Luke was able to use telekinesis with out any training, and Leia was able to sense significant happenings through the galaxy. Whose to say instinct can't unlock several minor force powers?
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User avatar #107 to #101 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
Original spoiler technically but whatever But Luke did have force training. Telekinesis is pretty much as basic as **** comes as far as the force goes. And while his training was very substantial or lengthy, Obi-wan still taught him quite a bit on how to use it.
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User avatar #22 to #2 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
You're an idiot. the ******* bow caster to the gut, dumbass
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User avatar #24 to #22 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I wish i was as smart as you but thanks for repeating what everyone else already said it definitely made you look intelligent i was well aware he was wounded but finn shouldn't have been able to ******* touch him and rey shouldn't be able to rival him in the force it would've been better if they lost and chewy came in with the falcon and forced kylo ren to retreat
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User avatar #25 to #24 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
Finn spent his entire life in first order military training and Rey was already an established melee fighter. That more than accounts for the 5 seconds they lasted against
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User avatar #26 to #25 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Finn literally lost to another storm trooper rip to the most loyal of soldiers kylo ren was trained with a saber and he couldve flat out crushed him with the force as for rey i could see her standing up to him with a saber but she in no way should have rivaled him in force powers ultimately she should have lost
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User avatar #136 to #26 - captchakid ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Finn was fighting one of his brothers essentially, it's cannon the one he fought was FN2199 aka 'nines' aka Finn's subordinate. Finn was the leader of a squad, 'Nines' and 'Slip' (the one who spread blood across his visor in the first 10 minutes) and another were all trained together and fought together closely, with Finn as their leader. Phasma was seriously considering fast tracking Finn to become a higher up but was stopped by Finn's inability to put the mission before his fellow soldiers, he was too empathetic.
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User avatar #246 to #136 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
... But why in the movie did they have Finn as a trash collector? I mean, we're lead to believe the assault on Jakku was Finn's first ever combat mission; how did they think to give him a squad? also, that'd make him an NCO, by army standards, unless you meant fire-team rather than squad, but I genuinely don't know. I never heard this before

It just doesn't make sense for a soldier with any form of combat experience to immediately defect like that. This is something that strongly bothered me in the film: Did the First Order not educate him in First Order propaganda? First Order mind control? If the First Order is supposed to be synonymous with North Korea the same way that the Galactic Empire was synonymous to Nazi Germany, as has been suggested in a few media outlets and doesn't make sense when you consider the bitter hatred between fascism and communism why didn't Finn show at least some signs of regret? Some signs that he was destroying everything he has ever known? It doesn't make any sense and honestly makes Finn's character entirely too 2-dimensional he's either asserting that he's in chorge or asking if you gotta boi-frend .

Am I over thinking this, or am I just expecting way too ******* much from JJ Abrams?
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User avatar #28 to #26 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
Lightsaber on lightsaber is different than lightsaber on spinnything
And still, it's not like Ren was able to do much against rey, he was shot, and she was basically losing until she had a surge of forceness
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#40 to #28 - artimax (01/08/2016) [-]
Yeah, she had a "Surge of forceness" whatever the **** that means
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User avatar #41 to #40 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
dont be mad you dont understand something as basic as star wars
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#46 to #41 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey is an "established belee fighter". Guess what? Using a staff is a thing, using a weapon that has NO COUNTERWEIGHT is another thing.
But you're a fanboy, your only experience with reality and fighting is probably coming only from videogames or movies, so guess you're just talking about ******** like inner strenght and similar.
Because fighting properly, like Kylo is hinted to be trained at, require training. A lot. Menage breathing through the swings, the proper moves, it's not a thing taht you pick up.
And if you say taht the blaster had this impact, how come he can STAND, or even WALK. **** you fanboy.
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#58 to #46 - ygdosst (01/08/2016) [-]
Lightsabers are actually incredibly well balanced and light-weight by virtue of essentially being made of crystals and aluminum, with the blade being made of energy, therefor not needing counter-weight AT ALL

You can't apply standard medieval weaponry logic to Sci-fi tech. It'd be one thing if you were talking about vibroblades, but light sabers are entirely different from normal swords. Especially when many of the arts based around it reflect real life staff or rattan stick martial arts, as it's a balanced light-weight object involving a lot of collisions between weapons, and revolving around landing a single solid blow.
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#60 to #58 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Man, do you even know what you're talking about?
You know what is the counterweight I'm talking about is the SWORD? Not the hilt?
You know that you can't balance a hilt right? Becuase the lever principle? You can't belance because the lever has NO WEIGHT.
You can't simply say that the hilt is balanced, because the part that need balancing is not the hilt, but the "energy beam".
Source: physics degree.
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#81 to #58 - greyblade (01/08/2016) [-]
except despite the lack of blade weight, sabers tend to contain internal gyroscopes, which provides resistance when swung.
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User avatar #50 to #46 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
because hes a ******* space wizard who has the potential to be melted by thousand degree lava completely destroying his body inside and out and still be alive
and i dont know if you noticed but rey sucked at fighting with a lightsaber, she was barely able to hold her own until she "awoke" with the force
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#52 to #50 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
She sucked so much at using the lightsaber that won against Kylo who has been trained for years under both Luke Skywalker (the canon Force Jesus) and Snoke.
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User avatar #54 to #52 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
i dont have any facepalm pictures but pretend i posted one because youre an idiot, repeating the same **** over again even though your logic is flawed
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#55 to #54 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Where is the flaw?
We have on one side a trained swordmaster, able to kill all the padawans of Luke Skywalker, and he's lightly injuried. Because if it was heavy he would be dead, or limping, or at least show he's injuried. The only thing that reminds you that he's been shot he's that he hits himself, but this helps him, because canonically the dark side gains strenght from pain and hatred.
On the other side, Rey, a scavenger, first time wielding a lightsaber.
Please, don't circle around it, tell me. Where is the flaw?
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User avatar #62 to #55 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
i missed the notification
he does limp. and hes not "lightly injured", did you even watch the movie? the bowcaster sent troopers flying and all it did was bring him to his knees. thats some force **** right there. but he is still hurt really bad. he limps, he bleeds, his speed is slowed, he cant concentrate and use the force other than keeping his guts from spilling out.
rey is a melee fighter, we know this, it doesnt matter if the blade end is weightless, and plus shes force sensitive. and most likely, shes related to this lightsaber by blood. she sucked at fighting, but obviously if even finn could get 2 good hits in, ren is obviously ******* out of it.
your logic flaw is underestimating how much damage the bowcaster did to ren. because he still beat the **** out of finn and rey until the planet started splitting apart.
im seriously inclined to think youre trolling, nobody can be this stupid
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#64 to #62 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
You're just name calling, expected from a fanboy like you.
The bowcaster should have killed him, we all saw it. Guess what? It didn't, and the force never showed, in any film that make you more resistent to damage.
You say that he limps, that he is slowed and can't concentrate.
I can accept it, and this would almost work, but two second before he just trashed Finn without problems, and Finn is a trained stormtrooper (The fact that he was a janitor doesn't take it from basic training).
You say that "It doesn't matter" that the sword is almost unwieldable.
Why doesn't it matter? Because you say so?
You just imply that she was enough trained to kill a master swordsman.
You just imply that he was THIS hurt.
But if he was this hurt, there is no reason for him to be walking at all. He should have died here and there. He didn't? Guess what, Star Wars lore is made that Dark Side users GAIN strainght from pain.
That's why he was punching himself every so often, to gain strenght. Guess it's useless to talk to you, you're just a rabid fanboy.
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#65 to #64 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
here, i downloaded a facepalm pic just for you, but only the thumbnail because youre an idiot or a troll and i dont care
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#66 to #65 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Guess you're just a kid.
Nothing new from Star Wars fanboys.
I pity you in your real life, talking like this and trying to act smart. I really pity you.
I guess you'll grow up someday, maybe when you'll be able to talk to people without using memes.
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#67 to #66 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
k bro
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#77 to #67 - jdizzleoffthehizzl (01/08/2016) [-]
It sucked, get the **** over it
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User avatar #78 to #77 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
bitch pls
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#61 to #54 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
I'm waiting for your answer.
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User avatar #129 to #52 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Annie was the literal force Jesus
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#75 to #41 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Bro, it's not that people don't understand star wars, it's that you're a ******* dumbass.

It's basic logic you're failing at atm.
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User avatar #76 to #75 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
you should read that anon's logic and try again
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User avatar #71 to #41 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I hope you're trolling cause honestly you sound like a massive faggot
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User avatar #72 to #71 - Deavas (01/08/2016) [-]
someone needs to reread anon's retarded comments
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User avatar #137 to #72 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
My opinion is unchanged
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#142 to #26 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
As far as I know, sith tend to be arrogant and pretentious with their enemies. He hisar didn't expect either of them to be dangerous so he might just have decided to "play" with them? The surprise of rye using the force just made him unstable for the rest of the fight (just my theory...)
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User avatar #80 to #26 - icytime (01/08/2016) [-]
I think if she is Luke's kid in this new Disney universe, then she would have the chosen one's bloodline, which is basically the strongest in the universe.
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User avatar #69 to #25 - angelious (01/08/2016) [-]
>established melee fighter
>only had one prior melee scene before this where she barely defeated some random mook thugs that were mostly busy just fondling her stomach
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#163 to #2 - thearcher (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey beat Kylo Ren because by the time she got to him, he'd already taken a Huge direct hit from Chewie's bowcaster (that sends groups of men flying) with barely any visible discomfort - so clearly he's a tough ****** , then he goes up against Finn after beating his own wound to make the pain greater so he can use it to channel the dark side easier (either way you spin it, he's injuring himself and just making it worse) and Finn manages to score a glancing blow on him too before he's defeated

Plus, Rey didn't Actually start to beat Ren specifically until after she decides to let the Force into the fight on her side, she just couldn't have got the upper hand without it, and she's clearly very strong in the Force thanks to her senses and mind trick ability

But in all seriousness - being able to pull off a mind trick in only 3 attempts without even properly knowing what it is? **** off....
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User avatar #218 to #2 - alpako (01/08/2016) [-]
well, maybe it happens in a dire crisis
or maybe she was taught
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User avatar #27 to #2 - shadowstepone ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Training to use the force is all about emptying your mind, being in as natural a state as possible. For someone who's lived in the desert their whole life struggling to survive, it comes easy.
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#84 to #27 - niggledafiggle (01/08/2016) [-]
For Jedi yes. But the whole difference between them and the Sith, is that the Sith draw on the most powerful of emotions when using the force. Whether that be anger, love, fear etc. Almost the opposite of emptying your mind to achieve serenity.

In a moment when Kylo is full of emotion (anger, hate, fear... take your pick) having an untrained force user suddenly beat him is surprising and seems a bit out of place. Whether it be from his more extensive training or being in his darkside 'element'.

Just my 2 cents though, open to interpretation.
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User avatar #155 to #84 - viscerys ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
All it takes is a little light to drive away the dark.

Rey was in a fully natural state, letting go of herself and letting the force direct her. Kylo was wounded, and fueled by angst more so than anger hate and fear. That's just how I interpreted it.
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#44 to #27 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Pathetic.
You apologists are terrible.
It's like saying that if I'm a natural I could win boxing match the first time I wear gloves.
PROTIP: I can't. Nobody Can. That's why being a Mary Sue is the worst thing a Main Character can be.
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User avatar #73 to #44 - ShaunG (01/08/2016) [-]
That would be an apt analogy if jedis weren't fueled by ******* space magic.
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User avatar #48 to #44 - shadowstepone ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Even so, the entire of using the force is returning to as natural a state of pure emotion as possible, all she was feeling was emotion.
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User avatar #51 to #48 - shadowstepone ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
the entire theory behind using the force, sorry stopped typing in the middle and didnt re-read
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#53 to #51 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Well, I know what you're saying, but the Jedi trick is CANONICALLY not a easy thing, it's a high trick taht only a master can use.
Source: Luke could only use it in ROTJ after training with Yoda.
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User avatar #56 to #53 - shadowstepone ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
in the books, that's kind of the point
luke and anakin both had very chaotic minds, good and even exempted
she's naturally peaceful.
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#57 to #56 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
ROTJ is not a book, it's the sixth movie.
Luke only uses it there, and he had chances to use it previously, and he didn't.
Books are CANON too though, so the point stands.
And her being naturally peaceful, doesn't excuse her about being a mary sue.
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User avatar #59 to #57 - shadowstepone ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
no, what i'm saying is that teaching them to feel individual, primal emotions was hard, and it was just her basic nature. The force is only hard if the user makes it hard.
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#85 to #59 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Then tell me why Zoanoma Sekotan wasn't ******** out force powers that could cause the galaxy to quake?
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#209 to #2 - funnygiggles (01/08/2016) [-]
She probably learned from watching. You remember how Kylo Ren said she grows stronger as she starts learning her powers. Its because she say what Kylo Ren was doing and tried to do the same thing back and discovered she could.
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#168 to #2 - cockandballz (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey winning the fight makes perfect sense, He was shot, stabbed, mentally unstable even before Killing Han , tired out from both fighting Finn and probably from running outside to catch them while also being injured.
Not to mention he isn't that great of a fighter relatively speaking, while Rey is a pretty decent fighter and is very force sensitive, also he was probably holding back because he wanted to make her his apprentice.
I got nothing for the mind trick though unless they're setting her up to be absolutely insane with the force.
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User avatar #179 to #168 - ifightdragons ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Finn should have been knocked on his ass in no more than 5 seconds and rey is not the more experienced fighter the amount of times she tries to just poke him with the saber looked ridiculous imo. I think it would've been loads better if they had lost it would've made kylo ren seem way more threatening
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#251 to #179 - cockandballz (01/09/2016) [-]
Finn is a trained soldier and actually pretty talented if you read that little prequel book they made and would know the fundamentals of melee combat, I think he lasted about as long as he should have being a non force user and all.
Kylo Ren isnt supposed to be threatening, hes supposed to be a whiny wannabe Darth Vader who is getting pulled between the light and dark sides constantly and will have huge character development over the next episodes.
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User avatar #205 to #2 - paranoidmuffin ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
muh stonk independent womyn
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User avatar #165 to #2 - SognaVetr (01/08/2016) [-]
He just took a direct hit from a mega bazooka that sends normal people flying in a 360° scope. The fact that he still stands and fights is remarkable to say the least, even in the Star Wars universe. His doubts and weaknesses only make him a better character imo.
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User avatar #164 to #2 - zetsuboukamina ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I'm thinking Jedi mind wipe
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#121 to #2 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
guessing he was really out off shape after that blaster shot..and since all jedi arepretty much extinct i doubt that guy had much real life training..
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#186 to #121 - sengenjin (01/08/2016) [-]
In the movie it said luke had been training him and several others before Kylo turned and killed the other students.
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User avatar #90 to #2 - punisherswar (01/08/2016) [-]
The mind trick and her being a damn good pilot are the only things that really bugged me some parts felt rushed like hitting skip on a dvd
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User avatar #167 to #90 - shinyarmor (01/08/2016) [-]
uhh, the old movies did that too
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User avatar #248 to #167 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
What do you mean?

Luke had established himself as a good pilot multiple times in dialogue, and he never used the Jedi Mind Trick until Return of the Jedi, and it's implied that there's a long time gap between Empire Strikes Back and RotJ in which Luke completes his Jedi training, even constructing his own light sabre
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User avatar #253 to #248 - shinyarmor (01/09/2016) [-]
thats exactly what i mean. it does the time skip in all the movies.
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User avatar #255 to #253 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
But I don't think that's what punisherswar meant.. I could be wrong here, but...

Finn sees his first combat ever --> he's now capable of pulling off a successful escape in a devastatingly well-armed fortress literally minutes later.
Finn has presumably never had any experience with a blade-style weapon --> his first fight is successful with a light sabrealbeit just barely
Rey finds out the force is real --> 10 minutes later of screentime and presuming she's never once attempted using the force before, she's reading Kylo Ren's mind (and preventing the vice versa through willpower, apparently)
Kylo angrily leaves the interrogation room and allows Rey to be guarded with a soldier --> Rey can suddenly pull off a Master-level Jedi Mind Trick on her second attempt at it

The Original Trilogy didn't have this kind of rapid progression. Luke finds out about the force, he's terrible at it until RotJ... Remember it took every ounce of his concentration just to move his light sabre in the ice cave, and even then that's with Obi Wan's guidance.

There were few major time leaps, and the few they had were well implied, except perhaps for Han Solo and Leia's imprisonment on Cloud City.
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User avatar #166 to #2 - captinchikin (01/08/2016) [-]
To beat Kylo, he was hit in the stomach by a bowcaster, also likely shaken due to what he had just done. The mind trick, I have no idea, but I doubt they'll go without explaining it in the next two
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#83 to #2 - LarsGoes (01/08/2016) [-]
1) kylo was heavily wounded(you can see what that crossbow thingy does on multiple occasinos in the film) and maybe even didn't want to win, like vader in empire. 2) Her vision points towards being trained by luke when the knights of ren attack. so she seems to have had some experience already and has been kinda mind wiped or something (my theory.)
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User avatar #145 to #83 - yunoknow (01/08/2016) [-]
I'm thinking the same thing, she's some sort of sleeper agent whose memories first awaken when she was in the vicinity of the luke's lightsaber. kylo ren's tampering probably finally woke the dragon.
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User avatar #87 - wheteverlol (01/08/2016) [-]
This movie was matrix. First Kylo starts stopping bullets mid air and then he tells ray you need years of kung fu practice. She closes her eyes for 5 seconds and she's like "I know kung fu"
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#96 - alpako (01/08/2016) [-]
then their's finn
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#135 to #96 - altairibnlaahad ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Poor FN-2199
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#104 - solomonkane (01/08/2016) [-]
Jedi arent even suppose to have offspring...
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User avatar #175 to #104 - clavatninenine (01/08/2016) [-]
That was part of the old jedi order. When Luke reformed it he taught that attachment is not a path to the dark side, but teaches compassion and humility and allows those with attachments to use those good feelings and desire to protect to increase their strength in the light. Really, if the old order had allowed attachment and marriage Anakin would have been able to be with padme but not in secret, they could have gotten legit help from the jedi and Anakin would never have fallen to the dark side.
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User avatar #143 to #104 - aejann (01/08/2016) [-]
They aren't supposed to have attachments. Since it's almost impossible to not be attached to your partner and children, most Jedi do take on a life of celibacy, but it's not required.
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User avatar #191 to #143 - wertologist ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Actually, I think it was completely against the rules. That's why Anakin and Padme had to hide their relationship. They even said that Anakin would be expelled if they found out. In all honesty, I don't know why Anakin didn't just quit and go freelance Jedi without the restrictions. Arguably that would have also saved the galaxy from much horror and death.
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#119 to #104 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
and Christians aren't suppose to **** out of wedlock and yet looky here it happens.
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User avatar #108 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
Spoilers My problem is that the first episode of this saga, was way too ******* easy. In episode 4, the good guys barely won and they only won because of luck. It was humbling, and still has the Empire as an intimidating bad guy. And in Episode 5, the entire movie is just the good guys getting their **** kicked in at every angle, which is personified by the Luke vs. Vader duel. Luke holding his own for a while, but eventually losing of course, because it's ************* Darth Vader and you're barely trained, that made sense. In Episode 7, the bad guys get their **** kicked in so hard, that it's borderline hard to believe there would ever be an Episode 8. Kylo Ren was too easy for Rey to defeat. Now I admit, at the time, I had forgotten that Kylo Ren was GRAVELY wounded by Chewbacca's crossbow. So much he should be in a medical bay, not having lightsaber duels. So now that I think of it, Kylo Ren was actually more badass here than I thought. He defeated Fin with relative ease, not TOO easy, so that was actually done right. Fin does his best, but his best just can't cut it here. Then Rei holds her own without any training at all, like I guess I'm supposed to assume it's because Kylo Ren is too wounded to go 100%? Then all of the sudden she just "USES THE FORCE" and becomes a badass for no reason, and turns the tables on Kylo Ren, kicking his **** in hilariously easy. Like come on, there is no challenge here, it's no fun. Untrained no one who is "USING THE FORCE" versus actually trained badass who knows what the **** he's doing, and she just turns the tables and ***** on his chest. Like at first, even though he was wounded, he still had the upper hand most of the time, then Rei like got in the zone and got the upper hand for some reason. What should have happened, is she should have been able to level it out, into a stalemate instead. There is absolutely no reason you should be able to beat this person, so a stalemate would have been badass in it's own right, but it would have been realistically badass. So conclusion, Kylo Ren may have been more badass than I thought, Rei is too badass, the movie is too easy.
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User avatar #132 to #108 - keatontheghostfox ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
1. He's injured 2. Rey lived alone in what is basically the ghettos of the galaxy all her life scavenging in order to survive and having to defend herself from any would be attackers. So she knows how to fight.3. Kylo Ren was still in training, we see him kick ass against non force users with ease because well, he uses the force and has a lifesaber. This his his first fight with force users since he killed the other Jedis in training but he never did go against a real jedi, so he's basically where Luke was in empire strikes back only as a sith.
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User avatar #138 to #132 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
1. I said he was injured already, but he's still a badass. Also that at best covers a plot hole, when they shouldn't have wrote the story in that fashion in the first place. 2. Sure fighting and survivability might translate well for a blaster, or that staff thing she has, but not a ******* lightsaber. They are the most unwieldy weapon in the galaxy because of their unbalance nature, all the weight is in the hilt, that is the polar opposite of her experience with a staff and WOULD NOT translate well at all. Not to mention you need to be trained to use a lightsaber just so you can avoid accidentally cutting your own limbs off, much less use them effectively. I don't care who Rey is, you can't just "pick up a lightsaber". 3. Kylo Ren is not that inexperienced in the slightest. Luke was having trouble enough with telekinesis, difficulty pulling a lightsaber out of snow, and after being trained, couldn't lift his X-Wing. Kylo Ren was able to ******* FREEZE people and THEIR ******* BLASTER SHOT IN MID FLIGHT. DUDE, that is not something a filthy casul could just do! Like it or not, that is evidence enough that Kylo Ren HAS to be trained and skilled in a relatively significant regard.
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User avatar #144 to #138 - keatontheghostfox ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
true, tbh it would make more sense if Finn was better than Rey with the light saber because he was the best in his class in hand to hand combat (such as the stun baton) +he had more practice with it even if it is just a few hours or so... Rey literally just picked up l it up when she fought kylo
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User avatar #148 to #144 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
That might work in unarmed combat, which would require for both parties to be disarmed. Or Fin should have had that spinny thing that one Stormtrooper had, which would have made more sense, but that still wouldn't have translated to a lightsaber very well.
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User avatar #150 to #148 - keatontheghostfox ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
really now that I'm thinking about it, why didn't Finn pick up one of the blasters of a fallen stormtrooper
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User avatar #151 to #150 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
He did.
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User avatar #152 to #151 - keatontheghostfox ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Oh... I don't know I gotta rewatch it.
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User avatar #153 to #152 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
Yeah he obviously prefers the blaster, and only uses the saber out of desperation, or against another saber. He actually prefers his strengths quite a bit.
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#238 to #132 - anon (01/09/2016) [-]
What would-be attackers? It seems the only one who was any threat was the one she scared off by waving her stick at him. If that's all it takes to make someone turn and leave the incredibly valuable thing on this planet, I highly doubt she has had enough combat experience to excuse her sudden skill with the saber.
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#140 to #108 - astatine (01/08/2016) [-]
But then, Kylo Ren's meant to be a Sith - back in the day an injury like that would fuel their anger and make them fight even harder, albeit maybe more recklessly and with some slightly more sluggish moves. Vader was in constant pain, his skin itched permanently and his body was unreasonably heavy but he was still one of the most powerful people in the galaxy.

That said, I think that's largely the point. Kylo Ren isn't Vader - he hasn't even earned the title of Darth. When he told his master he was going to kill his father the boss had no faith in him, his anger is more childish rage than seething hatred like pretty much all other Sith, and at more than one point in the film it's shown that he hasn't fully given himself over to the Dark Side yet, which I imagine would make it a bit difficult for him to perform. Just before the Finn/Rey fight, in addition to the wookie blaster he's just killed his father, so I think his mind was elsewhere and his emotions were too all over the place for him to really focus.

TL;DR Kylo Ren is still a pussy bitch but I think it's a part of the plot and this is where he trains to get better in the dark side montage style while Rey trains in the light
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User avatar #146 to #140 - severepwner (01/08/2016) [-]
Well that's an odd way to present a villain.
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User avatar #112 to #108 - sketchE ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
blood loss ******* sucks man
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User avatar #89 - irockout (01/08/2016) [-]
She uses a staff, she obviously has some experience, plus Kylo was shot by the bowcaster which was blasting stormtroopers 20 yards affecting his ability
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User avatar #203 to #89 - wertologist ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
A staff and a sword are far too different for skills to transfer. You go try using a sword like how you use a staff and see how effective it is. Training with a staff only gets you better at weapons like a staff. A sword is not like a staff at all. Especially a lightsaber. We also don't even know how much training she actually had with her staff. We barely saw her using it. She lived on a pretty empty desert planet. Jakku wasn't like Tatooine. Tatooine at least had heavily populated areas full of thug like people and mercenaries. Not to mention the Tusken Raiders out in the sands. Jakku appeared to just be a mostly empty sand pit that was just a battleground for the Empire in the past so scavengers set up there to make profit. I can't imagine there is too much for Rey to fight there so we can't really assume she is even a master at using a staff.

Back to the main point, skills with a staff only transfer to staff-like weapons like spears. It would essentially being like being saying just because you can drive a car, then you can operate a tank. The car and tank are very different. Too different for skills with either to be transferred. Go pick up a big stick outside about the size of a staff and trying using it like you would a sword. I can almost guarantee that one half will end up hitting you. Then go pick up a smaller stick about the size of a sword and try using it like a staff. You will be limiting what you can do with the sword. A sword is a versatile weapon. You can swap hands with it and flail it around without much restriction. A staff is fairly restricted in how you can use it.

The reason I'm trying to emphasize how different they are is simple. Before you say something like "well, I'm not going to use the sword like a staff. I'm going to use it like a sword". The thing about that is that you only know how to use a staff. Your combat style revolves around a staff like weapon. A sword is not a staff like weapon so your skills can't transfer easily. You'd be going in just flailing the sword not knowing how to use your staff skills(because you can't use a sword like a staff).

Does this help you see what we are saying?
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User avatar #244 to #203 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
This. Please let Rey eventually use the double bladed light saber like Darth Maul's. It'd fit in perfectly with the combat style that Abrams set her up for, and it'd be nice to see the return of that style of light sabre
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#100 to #89 - nekolacek (01/08/2016) [-]
Perfectly balanced staff = Absolutely unbalanced lightsaber that has all its weight in handle

u wut bruh
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User avatar #172 to #100 - kevinipples (01/08/2016) [-]
If you're very skilled with a staff and cant adapt to using a sword-type weapon relatively easily then you may be retarded.
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#181 to #172 - dukeexeter (01/08/2016) [-]
lol u wot m8?
Have you even used either of those two weapons before?
Have you even HELD either of those two weapons before?
There is a massive difference in fighting styles. First off, polearms take little to no training to use by anyone and be somewhat good with it. Swords take years of training to become a master swordsman.
You must be retarded for not looking up basic facts
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User avatar #182 to #181 - kevinipples (01/08/2016) [-]
are you trying to say that having the ability to use one thing does not give you some skills at using something very similar? are you one of those people who was never athletic or coordinated and able to apply certain skills elsewhere? I never said anything about being a master, but being able to hold your own against a skilled person who is badly injured? I think anyone with any sense of using handheld weapons could do it.
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#185 to #182 - dukeexeter (01/08/2016) [-]
I came off a little harsh there

I'm just not understanding how you are connecting practice with one type of weapon and style of fighting leads to experience/knowledge of another type of weapon with a different fighting style. It just doesn't make logical sense to me
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User avatar #188 to #185 - kevinipples (01/08/2016) [-]
They are not the same, but they are definitely similar. it's like people who are natural athletes. they tend to be good at just about any sport they pick up.
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#189 to #188 - dukeexeter (01/08/2016) [-]
but they arent similar dude, I know this, I've practiced HEMA Historical European Martial Arts, aka fighting like knights and stuff in the Medieval Ages for while
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User avatar #190 to #189 - kevinipples (01/08/2016) [-]
They are very different. but when it comes to being generally skilled with a staff, you have to admit that it puts you at a very good predisposition to be comfortable with using a sword.
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#195 to #190 - dukeexeter (01/08/2016) [-]
no dude, just no. Let it go. It's not the same. Also who even said she was trained or even skilled with a staff? I already said its pretty easy to be good with an type of polearm weapon.
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User avatar #200 to #195 - kevinipples (01/08/2016) [-]
...have you seen the movie? Rey is very much skilled with a staff. and I understand that an amateur swordsman is nothing compared to master, but you are definitely blowing way out of proportion the difficulty of using a sword effectively. anyone with a good sense of hand-eye coordination could catch on pretty easily. Lets not forget that Rey was a very agile and able bodied person fighting a master who has been terribly injured. It's not that far fetched that rey was able to do what she did.
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#201 to #200 - dukeexeter (01/08/2016) [-]
Whatever dude you believe your far fetched theory or whaterver I'm done
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User avatar #202 to #201 - kevinipples (01/08/2016) [-]
lmao calling what I'm saying a far fetched theory. I'd call it common sense but you do you man
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#239 to #202 - anon (01/09/2016) [-]
Different person here, commenting anon and not coming back. Can confirm, sword and staff are INCREDIBLY different to use. The weight distribution and reach are very different, and therefore the swinging and maneuvering are COMPLETELY different. If you don't believe me, go pick up a bo-staff and train with it. It doesn't take long to be as far along with it as Rey was. Now take fencing classes. You're going to get your ass kicked against any fencer with experience. For years.
Rey is a living plothole/deus ex. She has no reason to be skilled with the lightsaber OR with piloting/repairing the Millennium Falcon, though that's another topic entirely.
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User avatar #199 - bodox (01/08/2016) [-]
"Along time ago in a galaxy far far away"
Plot twist, the movies are a non fiction story about the extiction of the force
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User avatar #245 to #199 - etiennesk (01/09/2016) [-]
*cough cough* Lord of the Rings
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#198 - kuntz (01/08/2016) [-]
Click to show spoiler
Luke had about five minutes of training with a lightsaber and NONE of it included actually fighting against an other opponent. Remember Ben sparring with Luke? Nope. It was just him playing around with a robot that tased him

Do you remember Yoda sparring with Luke? Nope. He was teaching him about the Force but we never saw him ONCE teaching him how to actually fight with a lightsaber. Luke had precisely ZERO experience when it came to fighting with a lightsaber. And yet none of you said anything when Luke actually kept up with Vader and later on actually defeated Vader

Rey on the other hand spend her ENTIRE LIFE defending herself with her staff. She is very well versed in fighting with a melee weapon. But when she fought against a HEAVILY INJURED Kylo Ren you immediately cry Mary Sue and unrealistic.

AND Kylo was trying to convince her to join him, if he wanted her dead he could had killed her obviously, she caught him off guard with her skills and then BOOM, they got separated before more damaged could happen
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#207 to #198 - halli (01/08/2016) [-]
agree
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User avatar #215 to #198 - jzwangpk (01/08/2016) [-]
I always liked to think that Ben trained Luke more than what we see. I mean, they can't show everything or the film would be ridiculously long, so they must have taken some liberties. Vader keeps saying 'Obi-Wan has taught you well' so it seemed logical to assume that more training than what we saw had occurred. Same goes for Luke's training with Yoda - he may not have sparred but he could have been taught the basic moves of the forms.
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#237 to #215 - anon (01/09/2016) [-]
>>#198, There's also the element of unpredictability in Luke's fighting style. If you watch, he LOOKS untrained in combat. He swings wildly and wide, bashing and smashing the saber down almost like it's a mace or hammer, compared to Kenobi and Vader, who handle their sabers like professionals. His combat style kept Vader on the defensive for most of the fight, as swinging to attack would have left him open to the overhead slash that would have absolutely come.
But yes, there was absolutely a skip of at least a few months between Episode 5 and 6, where Luke trained on Dagobah. Not enough to become a pro, but long enough to learn the basics well enough.
Looking at Rey, we are never shown any evidence of training in movie. The only source of this info is the extra little book that was put out, which seems like the usual cash-grab with afterthoughts added that is par for the course with Star Wars.
tl;dr Rey was OP, Luke was underpowered by unpredictable/lucky.
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#223 to #198 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Luke got his ass kicked the first time he fought vader(and if you can remember vader was trying to convince luke to join him as well). The second time he fought vader there was a time skip between the 5th and 6th movie luke was a jedi knight by then. Also the only way he beat vader was by using his anger. Im sorry but no matter how I look at it Rey is too op.
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#241 - rapathazar (01/09/2016) [-]
I have been in such deep ******** I have yet to see this film. All I have to keep me going is the burning hatred that Disney declared all the EU non-cannon just so they could not deal with it... If you remove the Extend Universe Vader is a Pussy who has 2 slow clunky fights with his untrained son before dying and Bobba Fett is the the guy who stood behind Vader, stood behind Jaba, and then fell the **** into the only thing for 100s of miles that was a living toothy sand vagina rather than just sand At least the 501 is still cool cause the Clone Wars Series holds
I have been in such deep ******** I have yet to see this film. All I have to keep me going is the burning hatred that Disney declared all the EU non-cannon just so they could not deal with it...

If you remove the Extend Universe Vader is a Pussy who has 2 slow clunky fights with his untrained son before dying and Bobba Fett is the the guy who stood behind Vader, stood behind Jaba, and then fell the **** into the only thing for 100s of miles that was a living toothy sand vagina rather than just sand

At least the 501 is still cool cause the Clone Wars Series holds
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#33 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
So what i'm taking away from this is Jedi training is statistically irrelivent compared to afinity with the force. I mean 2/3 times the untrained person just *************** it.
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User avatar #217 - jzwangpk (01/08/2016) [-]
Rey's supposed to have had all this experience with self-defence (we see her using her staff thing), yet when she gets a lightsaber all she does is stab with it.

Do you want to lose your hands? Because that's how you lose your hands. And in a franchise that's got this much of a fetish with limb removal...

For crying out loud, it's a lightsaber. Thrusting is useful because it concentrates force but that's literally 100% moot with a blade that burns through nearly anything it touches.
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#225 to #217 - chokebee (01/08/2016) [-]
Yeah, well, she does use a spear-like weapon, so, uh, she does a lot of stabbing, eh?
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User avatar #250 to #225 - jzwangpk (01/09/2016) [-]
A spear? The hell? That thing's more a quarterstaff. Watch her take on the thugs trying to steal BB-8 and you see her making a lot of 'thwack'ing motions, but nothing to indicate that she uses the staff like a spear.
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User avatar #213 - skeletorexplains ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
And out of all the glowsticks, he makes a really poor imitation of an "Ancient" Crossguard lightsaber...

I swear if the bitch doesn't get a Light-pike / staff in the next movie i'm gonna be pissed. And it better not be some fancy ****
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User avatar #224 to #213 - lazaman (01/08/2016) [-]
The point of those "cross guards" is to vent his unstable saber.
plus he's Sith, intimidation and looking cool is their thing.
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User avatar #228 to #224 - skeletorexplains ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
it looks dumb.
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User avatar #231 to #228 - deltoraquest (01/08/2016) [-]
you looks dumb
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#232 to #231 - skeletorexplains ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
You take that back!
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User avatar #234 to #233 - skeletorexplains ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
F..faggot
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User avatar #235 to #234 - deltoraquest (01/08/2016) [-]
I'll get you next time skeletroe...skeletorechs...skeletore explains!
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#210 - funkycow ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
**funkycow used "*roll picture*"**
**funkycow rolled image** Yes I would like to order 66 jedi. Yes thats for delivery.
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User avatar #204 - kalimah (01/08/2016) [-]
You can tell luke had no training from his fights with vader
He just ******* waves and smashes his light saber like a ******* mace vader mostly loses in the last one because he was caught off guard and luke was super pissed
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#236 to #204 - anon (01/09/2016) [-]
Pretty much, yeah. I'd like to think that was 100% intentional, and not just Hamill spazzing out.
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