You Can't Roll That In D&D!
![You Can't Roll That In D&D!. . lilla AHEAD AMI] Ill’!. Oh come on that's not even bad, go play some Hackmaster... Go though about half and hour of character creation start rolling up your family members and find out](http://2static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/2c/c9/2cc9f3_5776399.jpg "You Can't Roll That In D&D!")
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#1
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malusdark (12/22/2015) [-]
Oh come on that's not even bad, go play some Hackmaster... Go though about half and hour of character creation start rolling up your family members and find out that your boozed up father beat you to death one night when you were nine.
#8 to #1
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quattrocandella (12/22/2015) [-]
I logged in just because I'm absolutely shocked that somebody else plays Hackmaster, my group thought we were the only group left...
#12 to #1
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schneidend [OP](12/22/2015) [-] 
It's gonna get pretty bad when I pit my players against a young adult black dragon on her home turf. They'll be level 7 by then, so it's within the parameters of an "Epic" encounter for them in theory, but on paper the bitch looks lethal as **** . +14 attack bite with 4d6+21 damage as a standard action, and they'll likely be flat-footed because she's attacking out of a Darkness spell.
#19 to #12
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neverborn (12/22/2015) [-] if anyone goes into a dragon fight without matching most of it's senses, activating resistance to it's primary element, making sure you can move the same way it can or at least counter it (flight, swim, breath underwater ect), all the combat buffs in the world won't really mitigate you having a bad time
#20 to #19
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schneidend [OP](12/22/2015) [-] True enough. I'm kind of cluing them in that this assassin guild that one of their hated business rivals has contracted before might be involved with a dragon, but it won't be obvious. Hopefully they'll get the message, because I'm pretty sure the only ones among them who can prepare acid resistance spells are the Druid and the Rogue's Cleric cohort.
Luckily for them, though, the dragon will be so pissed they've attacked her power base that she'll fight to the death to defend her lair. It's a sewer, so she doesn't have room to fly, but she can swim through the sewage she sleeps in. She can fire her breath weapon while underwater, so I think that'll be her first move as a surprise round, followed by casting Darkness on the pool she sleeps in. Anybody gets close to the Darkness, she'll swim up and bite them with a Vital Strike Power Attack for the attack and damage I mentioned above while waiting for her breath to recharge. I'm adapting a 4E Dungeon Delve to Pathfinder, and that module suggests she will pursue and try to kill anybody who flees so she can keep her lair secret, which might be their best bet to get her into the open. I'm also planning to have the grappler Barbarian NPC I play alongside them ready an action to try and grapple the dragon when she bites at him, in an attempt to pull her out of the water. It's a longshot, but with Bless from the Cleric cohort and Inspire Courage from the Bard, it's certainly possible he'll grab her.
Luckily for them, though, the dragon will be so pissed they've attacked her power base that she'll fight to the death to defend her lair. It's a sewer, so she doesn't have room to fly, but she can swim through the sewage she sleeps in. She can fire her breath weapon while underwater, so I think that'll be her first move as a surprise round, followed by casting Darkness on the pool she sleeps in. Anybody gets close to the Darkness, she'll swim up and bite them with a Vital Strike Power Attack for the attack and damage I mentioned above while waiting for her breath to recharge. I'm adapting a 4E Dungeon Delve to Pathfinder, and that module suggests she will pursue and try to kill anybody who flees so she can keep her lair secret, which might be their best bet to get her into the open. I'm also planning to have the grappler Barbarian NPC I play alongside them ready an action to try and grapple the dragon when she bites at him, in an attempt to pull her out of the water. It's a longshot, but with Bless from the Cleric cohort and Inspire Courage from the Bard, it's certainly possible he'll grab her.
#85 to #83
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] Trouble is, in this scenario, the dragon's the one who is a level 10 powerhouse in this scenario, while the party is likely to be level 7 when they find her.The party isn't quite to the point where their specs are truly coming together and getting nutso. Some of them will be considerably more powerful at level 7, though. For instance, the Barbarian NPC I play alongside them will have a 23 AC while raging, which actually has a chance of avoiding Nox the dragon's .50 cal sniper rifle of a bite attack, and the Rogue is going to have a 5th-level Cleric as his henchman. So, I can only hope for the best.
#86 to #85
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malusdark (12/23/2015) [-]
I've run a few games that have been pretty heavy on PC deaths but I make sure that no matter what they had/have a chance to have everyone come out alive. It all counts on them not being stupid and making plans. I try not to have NPC henchmen or companions I control join the party cause I feel like they may over shadow the group or someone who how's job they might be filling. Hate counting on deus ex machina.
#87 to #86
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] The NPC Barbarian is more or less filling a tanking support role. He takes hits and hinders enemies by grappling them, rather than do lots of damage. But, yeah, they've got some tactical players among them. I just hope it's enough.
#54 to #47
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] No, although the Lady of Pain will probably get involved when the Big Bads try to use a giant undead superweapon to project a negative energy blast through all of Sigil's doors and kill the multiverse. Probably.
#2
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landartheconqueror (12/22/2015) [-] I'm seeing all these jokes about this, but I don't know the context. Anyone care to explain?
#4 to #2
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rebornpotato ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Pretty much he was an announcer for the Ms. Universe 2015 and he misread the card and said the wrong person and after she was mid celebration on stage, he came out and said he made a boo-boo and that she wasn't the winner, the other person was. 
Here is the video if you want to watch the extreme awkwardness of it.
Here is the video if you want to watch the extreme awkwardness of it.
#6 to #5
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icewraithking (12/22/2015) [-] i need to rewatch this.
i was watching national television that time. i may have missed it
i was watching national television that time. i may have missed it
#7 to #4
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ninesundev (12/22/2015) [-] He did not misread it, he says it afterwards: He just red the card, which was wrong.
#50 to #16
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oneupforme (12/23/2015) [-] At what level would Pokemon Tabletop United fall? I feel like it would probably be casual.
#53 to #16
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] Also, whoever made this forgot Star Wars Saga Edition! Disgraceful.
#64 to #16
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alucardexplain (12/23/2015) [-] Mutants and Masterminds is one of the funnest games ever.
#18 to #16
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schneidend [OP](12/22/2015) [-] The Good **** : FATE, 4E, Pathfinder, 3.5, Mutants & Masterminds
Being A Huge Faggot: Everything Else
Being A Huge Faggot: Everything Else
#52 to #48
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] It's easily the best D&D for people who like especially tactical combat.
#66 to #65
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] See, that's one of the retarded answers I've heard that I was telling magicmatchsticks about.
How is it any more like an MMO than literally any other edition of D&D? That makes zero sense.
How is it any more like an MMO than literally any other edition of D&D? That makes zero sense.
#68 to #66
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ministermax (12/23/2015) [-] No, it makes perfect sense.
It impersonalizes literally every aspect of an RPG.
Things are given very specific MMO-like structures, you have dailes, actives, etc.
The items are also structured in a tiered system
It impersonalizes literally every aspect of an RPG.
Things are given very specific MMO-like structures, you have dailes, actives, etc.
The items are also structured in a tiered system
#74 to #68
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] Impersonalizes how, exactly?
You've always had dailies in one form or another since 1E. Wizards and Clerics have so many spells per days. Clerics have so many turn attempts per day. Barbarians can rage so many times per day. Bards can sing so many times per day. It's the same thing in 4E. In fact, all of the Barbarian's daily powers are rages, and many of the Bard's dailies are songs!
Actives? That's not a thing with which I'm familiar. There's no Actives in 4E.
Items in past editions were also structured in tiers. In the loot tables you've got minor, medium, and major magic items. Many magic items came in lesser, default, and greater forms, and in various +X flavors. All of those had points at which a party would be expected to find or be able to afford them. That's a tier system. 4E just made it more transparent and incorporated it as a mechanic for giving other abilities, feats, and powers varying effectiveness, just like magic items. It was a nice, logical progression of systems previous editions had already established.
If you're thinking 4E's tiers can be reasonably equated to, say, World of Warcraft's tiered endgame gear, that's laughable. That just shows how nonsensical this MMO comparison is, and how little you obviously know about the system. As I said, WoW's raiding gear tiers are endgame content that are obtained solely through raid progression. The tiers in 4E are Heroic, Paragon, and Epic, and these cover every level of play throughout the character's career. Heroic is level 1-10, Paragon is 11-20, and Epic is 21-30. All this does is attempt to categorize the players' progression and their characters' impact on the realms, as well as allow some abilities to have their own progression. For instance, the 4E version of Weapon Focus has you pick a group of similar weapons, like axes, and get a scaling +1/+2/+3 to damage rolls with such weapons at each tier. Again, this is something that compartmentalizes all levels of play, and is completely unrelated to MMO-style tiers.
You've always had dailies in one form or another since 1E. Wizards and Clerics have so many spells per days. Clerics have so many turn attempts per day. Barbarians can rage so many times per day. Bards can sing so many times per day. It's the same thing in 4E. In fact, all of the Barbarian's daily powers are rages, and many of the Bard's dailies are songs!
Actives? That's not a thing with which I'm familiar. There's no Actives in 4E.
Items in past editions were also structured in tiers. In the loot tables you've got minor, medium, and major magic items. Many magic items came in lesser, default, and greater forms, and in various +X flavors. All of those had points at which a party would be expected to find or be able to afford them. That's a tier system. 4E just made it more transparent and incorporated it as a mechanic for giving other abilities, feats, and powers varying effectiveness, just like magic items. It was a nice, logical progression of systems previous editions had already established.
If you're thinking 4E's tiers can be reasonably equated to, say, World of Warcraft's tiered endgame gear, that's laughable. That just shows how nonsensical this MMO comparison is, and how little you obviously know about the system. As I said, WoW's raiding gear tiers are endgame content that are obtained solely through raid progression. The tiers in 4E are Heroic, Paragon, and Epic, and these cover every level of play throughout the character's career. Heroic is level 1-10, Paragon is 11-20, and Epic is 21-30. All this does is attempt to categorize the players' progression and their characters' impact on the realms, as well as allow some abilities to have their own progression. For instance, the 4E version of Weapon Focus has you pick a group of similar weapons, like axes, and get a scaling +1/+2/+3 to damage rolls with such weapons at each tier. Again, this is something that compartmentalizes all levels of play, and is completely unrelated to MMO-style tiers.
#75 to #74
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ministermax (12/23/2015) [-] You really have never had dailies in other RPGs, only if you were that particular level at the time, but it made the spells feel like they mattered, not "there is absolutely no down side for me using this thing, it costs literally nothing and I will for sure guaranteed have it tomorrow" Same with everything else. No cost, no downside. You get a free ability to use every fight? You heal like you're the god of war from a simple rest?
Actives were what I was calling the every fight specific abilities, I forget their names.
This is true, but it had actual fantasy flavor to it, 4e, much less so, it's very half-assed in design and aesthetic.
There are MMOs that exist that aren't WoW, that's not a valid comparison and you comparing 4e to WoW and calling it silly doesn't prove anything, people said it's MMO-like not WoW-like. Items have levels and rarities associated with them, there are dailies and per-fight abilities with absolutely no reason not to use them, as they cost nothing. The combat is streamlined, you heal like a titan from a simple rest, items have much fewer and shorter descriptions, etc.
Actives were what I was calling the every fight specific abilities, I forget their names.
This is true, but it had actual fantasy flavor to it, 4e, much less so, it's very half-assed in design and aesthetic.
There are MMOs that exist that aren't WoW, that's not a valid comparison and you comparing 4e to WoW and calling it silly doesn't prove anything, people said it's MMO-like not WoW-like. Items have levels and rarities associated with them, there are dailies and per-fight abilities with absolutely no reason not to use them, as they cost nothing. The combat is streamlined, you heal like a titan from a simple rest, items have much fewer and shorter descriptions, etc.
#78 to #75
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] How have you never had dailies? The Vancian spellcasting has always been dailies. You prepare spells in each slot, sleep, and then you have those spells. Dailies work the exact same way. The cost to using it is you can't use it any more, just like a spell, until it's ready to use again.
You only heal to full if you get an extended rest, which means 8ish hours of sleeping or at least doing nothing strenuous. This is less rigorous than previous Editions where you only healed HP equal to your level or Con modifier every so many hours. But, all that really means is it cuts down on how many times players will rest in a safe place and cast all their healing spells or whatever. In any case, it's still really hard to get a good night's sleep in a dungeon.
Encounters are what you're thinking of, which are indeed much newer as a concept than dailies. But, 4E Encounters function a lot like blade magic from 3.5's Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, and Force Powers in Star Wars Saga Edition. Regardless, not really anything like an MMO, where abilities will cool down regardless of what you're doing. You only get your encounter powers back after a short rest, basically chilling for like five minutes. So, if you rush from room to room like a jackass, or have to otherwise run a gauntlet of traps and fights, you're not getting encounters back. At the end of a short rest you can spend healing surges to get some HP back, basically like a hero in a movie taking a breather to get a second wind, but you only have so many of those per day, too.
It's really not half-assed at all, and in fact is very much tied into roleplay and gives you an idea of what sort of adventures you're up for. Heroic tier characters are usually just starting out, and handle local problems in a partiuclar nation or county. Paragon tier characters start getting into big time political intrigue that decides the fate of nations, and often travel to distant lands or even other planes. Epic heroes battle demon princes, gods, and the direct armies thereof, and have adventures where all of reality may very well hang in the balance. It's the same sort of deal as the Epic Level stuff in 3E and 3.5, just set up in a more elegant way that has more mechanical and narrative meat to it, and it's a consistent system through all levels of play instead of just starting post-level-20.
How are dailies in any way like an MMO? The last MMO I played that had daily abilities was Everquest, and that was literally stuff with 24-hour cooldowns. And, again, dailies were in D&D before 4E. Spells, Barbarian rages, Turn Undead, Bard songs? Remember how I mentioned those earlier? Those don't cost anything, either, other than that you can't use them once you're out of them, just like 4E's daily powers, so there's "no reason not to use them."
You can only "heal like a titan" on a fairly constrained basis, and you do so to represent the shrugging off of pain and hardship that cool heroes do in movies and novels all the time. Heroes can catch their second wind and get back in the fight without magical healing. That's part of what makes them heroes. Drizzt doesn't guzzle a health potion every time he gets cut by Artemis Entreri's sword or dagger. He soldiers on, fights through the pain.
Items have shorter descriptions? Actually, since each individual magic item generally tends to do more neato **** in 4E, 4E items usually have longer descriptions. Previous editions have things like Rings of Protection and Amulets of Natural Armor that simply state they give you +X bonus of a certain type to your AC. Meanwhile, most amulets in 4E not only increase non-AC defenses, but 99.9% of them also come with their own powers or passive abilities that of course require description.
You only heal to full if you get an extended rest, which means 8ish hours of sleeping or at least doing nothing strenuous. This is less rigorous than previous Editions where you only healed HP equal to your level or Con modifier every so many hours. But, all that really means is it cuts down on how many times players will rest in a safe place and cast all their healing spells or whatever. In any case, it's still really hard to get a good night's sleep in a dungeon.
Encounters are what you're thinking of, which are indeed much newer as a concept than dailies. But, 4E Encounters function a lot like blade magic from 3.5's Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, and Force Powers in Star Wars Saga Edition. Regardless, not really anything like an MMO, where abilities will cool down regardless of what you're doing. You only get your encounter powers back after a short rest, basically chilling for like five minutes. So, if you rush from room to room like a jackass, or have to otherwise run a gauntlet of traps and fights, you're not getting encounters back. At the end of a short rest you can spend healing surges to get some HP back, basically like a hero in a movie taking a breather to get a second wind, but you only have so many of those per day, too.
It's really not half-assed at all, and in fact is very much tied into roleplay and gives you an idea of what sort of adventures you're up for. Heroic tier characters are usually just starting out, and handle local problems in a partiuclar nation or county. Paragon tier characters start getting into big time political intrigue that decides the fate of nations, and often travel to distant lands or even other planes. Epic heroes battle demon princes, gods, and the direct armies thereof, and have adventures where all of reality may very well hang in the balance. It's the same sort of deal as the Epic Level stuff in 3E and 3.5, just set up in a more elegant way that has more mechanical and narrative meat to it, and it's a consistent system through all levels of play instead of just starting post-level-20.
How are dailies in any way like an MMO? The last MMO I played that had daily abilities was Everquest, and that was literally stuff with 24-hour cooldowns. And, again, dailies were in D&D before 4E. Spells, Barbarian rages, Turn Undead, Bard songs? Remember how I mentioned those earlier? Those don't cost anything, either, other than that you can't use them once you're out of them, just like 4E's daily powers, so there's "no reason not to use them."
You can only "heal like a titan" on a fairly constrained basis, and you do so to represent the shrugging off of pain and hardship that cool heroes do in movies and novels all the time. Heroes can catch their second wind and get back in the fight without magical healing. That's part of what makes them heroes. Drizzt doesn't guzzle a health potion every time he gets cut by Artemis Entreri's sword or dagger. He soldiers on, fights through the pain.
Items have shorter descriptions? Actually, since each individual magic item generally tends to do more neato **** in 4E, 4E items usually have longer descriptions. Previous editions have things like Rings of Protection and Amulets of Natural Armor that simply state they give you +X bonus of a certain type to your AC. Meanwhile, most amulets in 4E not only increase non-AC defenses, but 99.9% of them also come with their own powers or passive abilities that of course require description.
#79 to #78
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ministermax (12/23/2015) [-] Dailies meaning SINGULAR dailies. The cost of not having it is literally nothing, besides that, there is no reason not to use anything that you have. I cannot for the life of me remember seeing a cost to using a spell as a wizard, they're essentially sorcerers.
That is very MMO-like. I'm super injured, but sleeping for this singular night will make me as good as gold! Even in a fantasy world this makes no sense, and is extremely gamey. It could be argued that it saves time, but it does so in a very ****** way.
I don't really see how the comparison between encounters and some 3.5 stuff as helpful in any way when everyone in 4e has encounters to my knowledge. And it IS quite MMO like, sort of how in some dungeons in various MMOs there is terrain or items used to deal good damage or lay down status effects to effect the boss, with no cost for doing it all, no worry. Yes, resting for 5 minutes gets your stuff back, so there's little reason not to do it. That enforces either GM ********* to STOP that, or min-maxing from players, there's a few instances where i've seen this work in a nice way. Second winds are a good way to look at those rests, and I don't hate the concept of it, but it heals so unbelievably much, just like the full-time sleep. You are demigod, not a hero. You heal like a troll.
I don't see how that's not half-assed when you're essentially trying to do a GM and player's job for them. "nonono, don't use THOSE items, those items are for level 1 peasants. You want THIS item, this item is for level 3 paragons!" I agree it's set up well mechanically, but that mechanic is a very video gamey system.
And what RPG are you pulling that **** from? Barbarian rages aren't limited in a strict sense, and also have SEVERE side effects for having used them, IE: once it's over for that usage, you're exhausted and weakened. Turn undead and bard songs are some of the very few examples, whereas 4e is literally ALL of turn undead and bard songs.
Constrained or not, you still heal like you're a troll/demigod/etc. Yeah, the idea of you shrugging off pain is cool! But knowing that you could just take an 8 hour sleep like anyone else on the planet and recover what should have been an amputated limb (not an actual example), and be as good as if a god had created you right there, makes no sense. That's not hero-like, that's downright stupid. Fighting through the pain is cool, healing like you're the ******* terminator is not.
They have fewer pictures and even shorter descriptions, though this is comparing it to Pathfinder, which is essentially 3.5e + then revises, so I can agree that they're better than in 3.5, but not other roleplaying games. Random items coming with their own little abilities is cool, but also nothing new.
That is very MMO-like. I'm super injured, but sleeping for this singular night will make me as good as gold! Even in a fantasy world this makes no sense, and is extremely gamey. It could be argued that it saves time, but it does so in a very ****** way.
I don't really see how the comparison between encounters and some 3.5 stuff as helpful in any way when everyone in 4e has encounters to my knowledge. And it IS quite MMO like, sort of how in some dungeons in various MMOs there is terrain or items used to deal good damage or lay down status effects to effect the boss, with no cost for doing it all, no worry. Yes, resting for 5 minutes gets your stuff back, so there's little reason not to do it. That enforces either GM ********* to STOP that, or min-maxing from players, there's a few instances where i've seen this work in a nice way. Second winds are a good way to look at those rests, and I don't hate the concept of it, but it heals so unbelievably much, just like the full-time sleep. You are demigod, not a hero. You heal like a troll.
I don't see how that's not half-assed when you're essentially trying to do a GM and player's job for them. "nonono, don't use THOSE items, those items are for level 1 peasants. You want THIS item, this item is for level 3 paragons!" I agree it's set up well mechanically, but that mechanic is a very video gamey system.
And what RPG are you pulling that **** from? Barbarian rages aren't limited in a strict sense, and also have SEVERE side effects for having used them, IE: once it's over for that usage, you're exhausted and weakened. Turn undead and bard songs are some of the very few examples, whereas 4e is literally ALL of turn undead and bard songs.
Constrained or not, you still heal like you're a troll/demigod/etc. Yeah, the idea of you shrugging off pain is cool! But knowing that you could just take an 8 hour sleep like anyone else on the planet and recover what should have been an amputated limb (not an actual example), and be as good as if a god had created you right there, makes no sense. That's not hero-like, that's downright stupid. Fighting through the pain is cool, healing like you're the ******* terminator is not.
They have fewer pictures and even shorter descriptions, though this is comparing it to Pathfinder, which is essentially 3.5e + then revises, so I can agree that they're better than in 3.5, but not other roleplaying games. Random items coming with their own little abilities is cool, but also nothing new.
#80 to #79
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] Ah, by cost, do you mean component costs, like some spells requiring a pearl worth 100 gold? Yes, 4E doesn't have that. Then again, most spells in D&D don't do that, either. A fireball just requires a pinch of bat guano, and the game just assumes you have that sort of thing as long as you've got your component pouch with you. It doesn't actually cost any money. 4E does have rituals, however, which represent the magic that costs money, like resurrecting the dead, creating magic items, magically repairing objects, etc.
HP has never been meant to 100% represent how much meat and blood is in your body. It represents how many fatal or near-fatal hits you can avoid through grit, luck, or willpower. When you lose HP it's generally because you got singed, scraped, cut, bruised, had the wind knocked out of you, etc., not when your arm comes off. Getting impaled is usually when you're at 0 or fewer HP. So, healing by resting makes a lot of sense in the context of a hero that probably doesn't have a spear inside their face, because they only lost 10 HP out of 60, or whatever. You don't heal like a troll, because a troll will literally heal X HP every round until you kill it. Eventually, you'll run out of healing surges.
It doesn't do a GM or player's job for them, though it does tend to make GMing a well-balanced campaign much easier with the tier system as a guide. There's nothing stopping you from buying lower-tier items. In fact, that's usually a good idea, since there's a Heroic, Paragon, and Epic tier version of most items. But, if you're an 11th-level tielfing swordmage who specializes in fire attacks, and you want to keep your +1 flaming falchion because it helps you do more fire stuff, you have a feat or two for fire attacks, and a racial feat for falchions, then it's a killer idea to hold onto that +1 flaming falchion until you can get some kind of better fire-based falchion later on. When it comes to magic items, the tier system is mostly an organizational tool, and isn't even new. It's just been improved. Finding a Major Empowered Rod in 3E is pretty much exactly like finding a +4 Rod of Blasting in 4E.
At least as far as 3E and 3.5 go, Barbarians rage so many times per day based on their level. I believe it's once per day per 4 Barbarian levels, but I could be wrong. And, yeah, there's penalties after the rage is over, but not for very long. Unless pressured by waves of enemies or some other stressful situation, there's no reason the Barbarian couldn't just chill until those penalties were gone. Most fights are over before a Barbarian's rage wears off.
There's no reason to punish players for short rests, though having challenges that keep them from taking short rests once in a while is a good idea. It's not min-maxing, because like the Barbarian mentioned before, most adventurers have an opportunity to chill out, wait for negative stuff like rage fatigue and enemy spells to wear off. It's just part of the flow of the game. Besides, a typical encounter is balanced around players having access to their encounter powers. Many monsters even have their own encounter powers. Your encounter powers don't seem as potentially overpowered when an oni uses his own encounter power to eat your ******* soul for some ungodly amount of negative energy damage.
Multiple classes in earlier editions already had daily powers. Giving Fighters some daily maneuvers that represent the perfect moment to use his best technique, and making a Barbarian's rage also a daily maneuver, is an easy way to make a system that is very balanced. Even in Pathfinder, which I consider much improved over 3E, the Fighter often falls behind the Barbarian because extra feats usually aren't as impactful as Rage, much less Pathfinder's rage powers that let you have some customization over what your rage can and can't do. In 4E, the Fighter is much more competitive with the other classes, and it is wonderful.
HP has never been meant to 100% represent how much meat and blood is in your body. It represents how many fatal or near-fatal hits you can avoid through grit, luck, or willpower. When you lose HP it's generally because you got singed, scraped, cut, bruised, had the wind knocked out of you, etc., not when your arm comes off. Getting impaled is usually when you're at 0 or fewer HP. So, healing by resting makes a lot of sense in the context of a hero that probably doesn't have a spear inside their face, because they only lost 10 HP out of 60, or whatever. You don't heal like a troll, because a troll will literally heal X HP every round until you kill it. Eventually, you'll run out of healing surges.
It doesn't do a GM or player's job for them, though it does tend to make GMing a well-balanced campaign much easier with the tier system as a guide. There's nothing stopping you from buying lower-tier items. In fact, that's usually a good idea, since there's a Heroic, Paragon, and Epic tier version of most items. But, if you're an 11th-level tielfing swordmage who specializes in fire attacks, and you want to keep your +1 flaming falchion because it helps you do more fire stuff, you have a feat or two for fire attacks, and a racial feat for falchions, then it's a killer idea to hold onto that +1 flaming falchion until you can get some kind of better fire-based falchion later on. When it comes to magic items, the tier system is mostly an organizational tool, and isn't even new. It's just been improved. Finding a Major Empowered Rod in 3E is pretty much exactly like finding a +4 Rod of Blasting in 4E.
At least as far as 3E and 3.5 go, Barbarians rage so many times per day based on their level. I believe it's once per day per 4 Barbarian levels, but I could be wrong. And, yeah, there's penalties after the rage is over, but not for very long. Unless pressured by waves of enemies or some other stressful situation, there's no reason the Barbarian couldn't just chill until those penalties were gone. Most fights are over before a Barbarian's rage wears off.
There's no reason to punish players for short rests, though having challenges that keep them from taking short rests once in a while is a good idea. It's not min-maxing, because like the Barbarian mentioned before, most adventurers have an opportunity to chill out, wait for negative stuff like rage fatigue and enemy spells to wear off. It's just part of the flow of the game. Besides, a typical encounter is balanced around players having access to their encounter powers. Many monsters even have their own encounter powers. Your encounter powers don't seem as potentially overpowered when an oni uses his own encounter power to eat your ******* soul for some ungodly amount of negative energy damage.
Multiple classes in earlier editions already had daily powers. Giving Fighters some daily maneuvers that represent the perfect moment to use his best technique, and making a Barbarian's rage also a daily maneuver, is an easy way to make a system that is very balanced. Even in Pathfinder, which I consider much improved over 3E, the Fighter often falls behind the Barbarian because extra feats usually aren't as impactful as Rage, much less Pathfinder's rage powers that let you have some customization over what your rage can and can't do. In 4E, the Fighter is much more competitive with the other classes, and it is wonderful.
#72 to #68
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magicmatchsticks (12/23/2015) [-] ...so don't use the items or the quests that the game created in supplemental books? those are for casuals anyway, at best for cherrypicking good ideas for your campaign. the supplementals aren't core rulebooks, and the core rulebooks say nothing like the ******** you're spouting.
#67 to #65
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magicmatchsticks (12/23/2015) [-] ...yeah, a bit, and if I had an MMO with a fully personalized storyline, party, and playstyle i'd be playing that instead. I don't see how that's a bad thing.
#70 to #67
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ministermax (12/23/2015) [-] Would have assumed people went to pen and paper for a more atmospheric and realized fantasy experience, and not just "lel it's an MMO now, choose your daily, go kill boars"
#71 to #70
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magicmatchsticks (12/23/2015) [-] You're purposefully misconstruing my point. I see formal quests as a necessary evil in computer MMO's, and if I could do away with them I would. That's why I play D&D. Like I said, 'a fully personalized storyline', including the quests. Maybe you should find a DM for 4e that isn't ass. I have literally never seen, played with or heard of a 4e DM that played like that.
#73 to #71
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ministermax (12/23/2015) [-] It's the feel of the system, how it's designed.
Everything is in a more tiered system than it was before, the paint on the object matters a lot. The mechanics aren't even attempted to be explained in a fantasy way, everything is black and white MMO-like descriptors and feel.
The tools you're handed don't feel like you're holding rules to create a universe of fantasy and wonder, they make you feel like you're just holding bland rule dictations.
Everything is in a more tiered system than it was before, the paint on the object matters a lot. The mechanics aren't even attempted to be explained in a fantasy way, everything is black and white MMO-like descriptors and feel.
The tools you're handed don't feel like you're holding rules to create a universe of fantasy and wonder, they make you feel like you're just holding bland rule dictations.
#88 to #73
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] Virtually everything in 4E D&D comes with its own flavor text, from the items to the powers. It's not as if previous Editions didn't have things with really gamey descriptions. Look at virtually every spell in 3.5. The only difference is that 4E has specific keywords that define things in a uniform way that allows you to get to the meat of what a spell does without a whole paragraph to make sure you know that this spell summons some tentacles that are such and such size in a 20' radius that will do such and such, can't be such and such'd, and grapple every round. 4E just lets you know that it's an Area Burst 4, it does this attack, and that attack happens whenever you sustain it. It conveys the same information with fewer terms and just as much flavor text. And, what's more, because everybody's running off the same terms of Bursts, Blasts, Walls, etc., it's much rarer that any class is getting left behind in terms of utility or damage. 4E fixed the problem of the quadratic Wizard, which is more than any other Edition can say.
#76 to #73
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magicmatchsticks (12/23/2015) [-] So the DM can take about two hours planning a campaign that immerses you, like a good DM should be able to do in the first place. 4e does the smart thing- provide an amazing structure for rollplay, and leaves the roleplay up to the dm. As it should be. Without structure campaigns are just so unfun. The only thing any 4e player really pays attention to are feats, skills, traits, etc.; the fun stuff, customizing your character. The stuff that's actually in the core rulebook. If people don't like the items that a supplamental book gives, or the quests a supplamental book gives, they don't use that supplamental book.If a dm spends just a little bit of time and effort on his campaign, it works better than anything else. It's up to the player to involve themselves in the game, not the rulebooks.
Saying that it's the 'feel' is a weak argument too, since the feel changes dm to dm.
I'm sorry. You've failed to convince me with this line of argument. You're just telling me how you think 4e is played when, as a 4e player, I know better than you do. You haven't said any concrete flaws exist besides the 'feel'. I'm open to more argument, but you need a different angle.
Saying that it's the 'feel' is a weak argument too, since the feel changes dm to dm.
I'm sorry. You've failed to convince me with this line of argument. You're just telling me how you think 4e is played when, as a 4e player, I know better than you do. You haven't said any concrete flaws exist besides the 'feel'. I'm open to more argument, but you need a different angle.
#77 to #76
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ministermax (12/23/2015) [-] See, this is one of these things that you told me.
Maybe you've had a ****** GM, because "structure" can mean so many different things. A good improv GM provides a significantly better fantasy world experience than a GM who's trying to make everything into a video game.
In 4e it is significantly harder for you to feel like a warrior in a fantastical world when you KNOW that you have an awesome ability each day, and you KNOW you can use strong abilities each fight without any sort of downside. It encourages min-maxing of the system. 4e does little to nothing better than any other systems other than allowing hyper fast GM prep since everything is so streamlined, but the job of a GM isn't to be quick, it's to make a good experience, and I just don't see the enjoyment of "behold my massive and uncostly power, given to me by my level 9 staff!"
Maybe you've had a ****** GM, because "structure" can mean so many different things. A good improv GM provides a significantly better fantasy world experience than a GM who's trying to make everything into a video game.
In 4e it is significantly harder for you to feel like a warrior in a fantastical world when you KNOW that you have an awesome ability each day, and you KNOW you can use strong abilities each fight without any sort of downside. It encourages min-maxing of the system. 4e does little to nothing better than any other systems other than allowing hyper fast GM prep since everything is so streamlined, but the job of a GM isn't to be quick, it's to make a good experience, and I just don't see the enjoyment of "behold my massive and uncostly power, given to me by my level 9 staff!"
#55 to #52
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magicmatchsticks (12/23/2015) [-] Agreed. 5e is so ******* lame, I played it and got bored out of my god damn mind. I can't understand 3.5 for the life of me. 4e is just right. Don't understand the hate. If I could get a neckbeard in here to tell me why 4e is bad, i'd appreciate it, I legit do not understand.
#57 to #55
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] I've asked this question a million times. The answer is always pants-on-head retarded. I wouldn't worry about it.
From what I've seen with 5E, you don't get to choose any feats or optional class features until 4th level, which really bums me out. I like to customize the **** out of my character ASAP. That's part of why I usually play humans, to get an extra feat.
From what I've seen with 5E, you don't get to choose any feats or optional class features until 4th level, which really bums me out. I like to customize the **** out of my character ASAP. That's part of why I usually play humans, to get an extra feat.
#59 to #57
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magicmatchsticks (12/23/2015) [-] Question; have you ever done a D&D campaign online, over skype or something? It might be cool to set that up with a couple of 4e players, if you know any. I've been thinking about how skype would be a really good platform for D&D, it could work.
#60 to #59
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] Roll20 actually works a bit better for that, since it comes with built-in voice chat, text chat, mapping and figurine interface.
#61 to #59
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] But, yes, to answer your question, I have played online. It has its benefits and drawbacks. One of the drawbacks is that everybody is on their computer, and thus might get distracted by surfing FunnyJunk and linking it in the chat or some **** .
#46 to #22
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quillweave (12/23/2015) [-] Holy **** , someone else plays Stars Without Number? Awesome.
#21 to #16
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anon (12/22/2015) [-]
Im going towards neckbeard awakened, i've been writing a world for four years and im now writing rules using a percentile system with massive stat blocks to get rid of classes so that multiclassing isnt a big deal, you just have to practice what you want to be good at.
-CrowbarNinja. I'm to far down to log in.
-CrowbarNinja. I'm to far down to log in.
#40
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newprinny (12/23/2015) [-] I really dislike kill happy games like that and the thought of a DM becoming kill happy really turns me off of ever playing with them, dood. I get that it's supposed to be hardcore gaem, but it just seems like it'd really stifle people's creativity after a while. Why even bother coming up with a cool backstory for this guy if the DM can just arbitrarily decide a rock falls on my head, I happen to roll a 1, and get killed before I can even do anything cool? If I do come up with a cool character and he gets killed by some random **** , there's no real acceptable way to do anything with him without just reusing the same guy over and over and that'd be lame, dood.
#42 to #40
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victorydanceofc ONLINE (12/23/2015) [-] So many DMs see themselves as the player behind the enemies rather than the teller of the story. Better to find a DM that is interested in telling a great story.
#56 to #40
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] I usually don't do that kind of thing. Besides, it's just a joke. It's actually really hard to kill a whole party at once unless you be a huge dick about it, besides.
#32
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zeroqp (12/22/2015) [-] "Advanced"? Isn't Dungeons and Dragons already advanced enough? Isn't it almost whatever you want it to be?
#58 to #32
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] Advanced Dungeons & Dragons is just what the new rule set after 1st Edition was called. Then, AD&D had a 2nd Edition of its own. Then, they later came out with Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition, an amended 3.5 Edition, 4th Edition, and finally 5th Edition. All largely similar rules that cater to the tastes of, let's say different styles of players.
#62
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schneidend [OP](12/23/2015) [-] **** , did I miss it? I got a notification that this was in the Top 5. Did this make frontpage?!
#63 to #34
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alucardexplain (12/23/2015) [-] I did that. Didn't even think about it. I've learned so much since then.
#24
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lordraine ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-]
No, that's not a Tomb of Horrors death. A Tomb of Horrors death is "roll to disarm the trap. You have successfully disarmed the trap. You die anyway because the trap was trapped."
#23
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anon (12/22/2015) [-]
**anonymous used "*roll 1, DD Class*"**
**anonymous rolls Wizard (Wiz)**
lvl. 18
**anonymous rolls Wizard (Wiz)**
lvl. 18
#27 to #23
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anon (12/22/2015) [-]
**anonymous used "*roll 1, rpg name*"**
**anonymous rolls Tiloch**
Break of dawn, the rooster crows. It explodes you stop reading, and don't know why.
Rubbing his eyes the wizard named...Sits up explaining to himself that last night wasn't a mistake.
Looking around he sees his notes all over the floor, his prized frog splattered against the wall.
Feet flat on the floor, question in his head,
**anonymous rolls Tiloch**
Break of dawn, the rooster crows. It explodes you stop reading, and don't know why.
Rubbing his eyes the wizard named...Sits up explaining to himself that last night wasn't a mistake.
Looking around he sees his notes all over the floor, his prized frog splattered against the wall.
Feet flat on the floor, question in his head,
