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Question from an Atheist #4

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Submitted: 04/11/2013
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User avatar #31 - sorakarashi (04/27/2013) [-]
Sipple is right. This all happened in the first council of Nicea. Showing that men will do anything to pervert and make things convenient for themselves. Just goes to show that people take the **** that is handed to them and label it as "divine" just because a group of zealots say it is. And yes god is the ultimate troll. lol
User avatar #27 - biomedic (04/21/2013) [-]
for the lols.
User avatar #28 to #27 - thelordofbutthurt (04/21/2013) [-]
that's what I think too
User avatar #19 - everheat ONLINE (04/15/2013) [-]
I guess he likes to toy with his toys.
User avatar #26 to #18 - The Captain (04/19/2013) [-]
a whole video about religion?

As a chinese zoo-keeper said to the last two pandas on earth " **** that!"
#17 - KungFuZerO (04/11/2013) [-]
The church needed a way to make god relatable to the average working man.
#29 to #17 - sipple (04/27/2013) [-]
that is what made modern day christianity into what it is today the King of constantinople ordered a group of people to remove all of the parts of the bible that make jesus sound like a normal person they then changed other things like that jesus was married and in the changed bible it says that he was not married and that the person he married was a whore.
#30 to #29 - KungFuZerO (04/27/2013) [-]
haha i didnt know that.
#14 - bangala has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #15 to #14 - thelordofbutthurt (04/11/2013) [-]
I stated down there that... don't you think living and dying for 3,000 years was enough punishment? if anything I think that the whole "Scapegoat" thing with Jesus didn't teach us anything other than "Blame others for your faults"...
#16 to #15 - bangala has deleted their comment [-]
#12 - anonymous (04/11/2013) [-]
I like to believe it was a guilt trip so we wouldn't do it again.

Except, I've no idea.

And I'm 97% sure there is no God. Just the universe.

And let's face it. It's an awesome universe.

I'm gonna go fap now >.>
User avatar #13 to #12 - thelordofbutthurt (04/11/2013) [-]
I'm fapping as we speak o.O
#3 - anonymous (04/11/2013) [-]
Can god make a ******* so big even he can't eat it?
User avatar #5 to #3 - thelordofbutthurt (04/11/2013) [-]
Apparently God can do anything... so yes.. I'm assuming..
#10 to #5 - anonymous (04/11/2013) [-]
but if god makes it so big that even he can't eat it and he can do anything does he finish it anyway?
#11 to #10 - thelordofbutthurt (04/11/2013) [-]
<My only response to that
#1 - anonymous (04/11/2013) [-]
Another very good question.

It's your buddy from the other post btw XD Again, for the sake of argument, let's assume the bible as fact here.

Humans were created with perfection. No sin. No death. When Adam and Eve sinned, they lost this privilege. They became imperfect, like all of us.

At this point, humans became slaves to sin and death rather than god. They weren't created with imperfection. They were, however, created with free will. The fact that they disobeyed god forfeited their perfection.

Now, though humans are imperfect, god's will was still perfect. Namely, to have perfect humans inhabit the earth. But there was no a "ransom" if you will for humans perfection. In order for perfect humans to be bought back, a perfect human had to be sacrificed. The problem? No more perfect humans.
(I can only post 1000 characters as anonymous. Gimme a minute for part 2)
#2 to #1 - anonymous (04/11/2013) [-]
Now, why couldn't god just snap his fingers and take away sin and death? Because that would be revoking deserved punishment and going back on his will. The price had to be another perfect human.

Enter Jesus.

In sending him to earth as a perfect human infant, he would be the "ransom" for perfect humanity. Now, spirit creatures such as himself have free will, like humans. It was entirely possible for him to refuse the job. But, being as he and god both loved humans, he agreed to this willingly.

Thus, giving up his perfect human life, he bought back the potential for forgiveness of sin.
User avatar #4 to #2 - thelordofbutthurt (04/11/2013) [-]
I know this might sound as if coming from a child but... If it was Gods will and he was the one going back on his own will... what was the problem if he wasn't answering to any higher-ups?

And in the end wasn't it the same thing if he's giving Jesus as a ransom? If Jesus and god are the same being isn't that just a loophole? and a loophole in his OWN contract because it was with noone but himself? (if you're Catholic)
#6 to #4 - anonymous (04/11/2013) [-]
I'm not Catholic, and I do believe God and Jesus are two separate beings, just for the record.

It's a matter of fulfilling perfect purpose in the end. Sin began with the deception of Adam and Ever via Satan. Satan wasn't just trying to cause trouble for the sake of it. Suggesting that they eat from the tree was challenging God's right to rule.

If God just said "do over", snapped his fingers figuratively and did away with it all, it wouldn't be a solution. It'd be like a rich dad bailing his stupid son out of jail for a DUI and giving him his keys back. There was no real punishment. No evidence that humans WANTED to serve him. Because of human nature, they now had to SHOW they wanted to be in his favor, rather than just having it handed to them.

It's not that he didn't have to answer to anyone higher than him. In the end, it was just fulfilling his original purpose through the contract he set out. To put it kinda humorously, "Good Guy God followed his own rules".
User avatar #7 to #6 - thelordofbutthurt (04/11/2013) [-]
Damn.... DAMMIT ANON STOP MAKING SENSE!! hahaha.... Jeez this was a decent explanation hahahha >.> you have me beat this time...

But only in the logical sense of it... I still believe that it was morally wrong...

He could have seen that we where sorry... I mean we had been dying for what was appoximately 3,000 years... I think it would have been enough of a lesson don't you?
#8 to #7 - anonymous (04/11/2013) [-]
Really, it wasn't a matter of forgiveness as much as the ransom itself. Here's where it gets a little dicey, because I know my religions beliefs differ from 95% of other Christians.

Anyone who was really repentant would receive the reward of everlasting life. If you led a good life and followed God's laws to the best of your abilities, you weren't just going to die a Christian.

But, that perfect human for a perfect human ransom still had to be paid. Granted, it may seem a little harsh to have to have Jesus be tortured and killed on that behalf. But to fulfill his own purpose, it's what needed to be done. And again, Jesus agreed to do it. He obviously had more balls than me haha
#20 to #8 - hitro (04/16/2013) [-]
I would argue with humans having free will, which I beleive would mess with your argument, we can talk about that if you wish.

Also going through the actions 2000 years ago when we no way to really document it wasn't that smart.

Now if he could just go through the process just one more time, being seen on live tv or something that would be better. OR is god could just like help the world out.

AND (i guess this does relate to free will a lot)

God understood and knew that humans would eat the fruit. Also why place the fruit in the middle of the garden make it looks and taste awsome?

Lastly was sin formed from eating of the fruit or by disobeying god?

This matters because I believe somewhere during the fall, it talks about how they need to block the second fruit so that they do not become more god like.

"Genesis 3 verse 22 : "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of like and eat and live forever.

The part where it states like one of us is what is important, does this imply (If eating the fruit is the cause of sin) that god also has sin in him?

I would like to see the same anon respond, it would be nice if you made an account.

User avatar #9 to #8 - thelordofbutthurt (04/11/2013) [-]
Point 1 to Anon haha (logically)

I Have a couple more counterpoints but I don't want to use them here because they are more philosophical than they are religion based... So this round goes to you >.> ahhahha
#21 to #9 - hitro (04/17/2013) [-]
or you could respond >.>

that works as well

User avatar #22 to #21 - thelordofbutthurt (04/17/2013) [-]
My bad... You didn't reply to me you replied to Angry Black Man so I didn't get notified...
#23 to #22 - hitro (04/17/2013) [-]
I realize, I was hoping to have a discussion with that anon, but he never came back. Makes sense though no notification to him :/

cause he is anon >.>
User avatar #24 to #23 - thelordofbutthurt (04/17/2013) [-]
Not Anon... Angry Black Man
#25 to #24 - hitro (04/17/2013) [-]
my bad.

An Angry Black Man
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