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evilhomer

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What the happened?

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Views: 17877 Submitted: 08/11/2015

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> hey anon, wanna give your opinion?

asd

#14 - redninjaa

Reply +20 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [+] (6 replies)

stickied by evilhomer

Too all the people who are inevitably going to say
"t-h-h-is is just transition frame" or "ITS NOT REALL"
Here's a link. Watch it.
You need to login to view this link

#49 to #14 - deckbox

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

here are a few

#28 to #14 - flyinjoo

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

WhatHaveYouDone.jpg

#50 to #28 - deckbox

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(08/12/2015) [-]

kamehameha vs vegeta like 20 years ago

#38 to #14 - akulakhan

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I'm more concerned with that horrible voice acting than the animation itself.

#40 to #38 - redninjaa

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Yeah. usually I don't notice bad voice acting in subs because its in ******* japanese, but holy **** man. Especially King Kai.

#16 to #14 - mayhemtuesday

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

that was painful to watch.

#1 - congthea

Reply +136 123456789123345869

(08/11/2015) [-]

#7 to #1 - slobiscuit

Reply +10 123456789123345869

(08/11/2015) [-]

#8 to #7 - slobiscuit

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(08/11/2015) [-]

**slobiscuit used "*roll picture*"**
**slobiscuit rolled image**p.s. he looks retarded was this photoshoped?

#3 - anon id: 562b95b2

Reply +71 123456789123345869

(08/11/2015) [-]

top is a film. bottom is a tv line. top is back with dragonball was popular. bottom is when hype died down for several year. top is the climax of a series. bottom is a half assed fight, which essentially serves as a "im too strong currently" demonstration, top is also to scale, and bottom is zoomed in. Starting to see why this is a dumbass comparison?

#48 to #3 - keimunakata

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

of course the one time id forget to sign in is when i get 70+ thumbs -.- sigh

#6 to #3 - slobiscuit

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(08/11/2015) [-]

Dunno man, I think this is quite detailed too...

#29 to #6 - chitogekirisaki

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

that was the first ssj3 transformation
they needed to make it look good

#35 to #3 - anon id: dedd97f3

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Just gonna leave this here...

#4 - breaken

Reply +37 123456789123345869

(08/11/2015) [-]

They looked amazing in battle of gods and Resurrection F

#51 to #4 - spoopyskeleton

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Because those are movies. They put effort into the movies.

#52 to #51 - breaken

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

They used to put effort in the show too

#53 to #52 - spoopyskeleton

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I never said that.
I said they put more effort into the movies right now, because they're movies.

#54 to #53 - breaken

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(08/12/2015) [-]

I didn't mean it as an arguing point, just sad they they stopped.

#20 - floran

Reply +18 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

top quality

#46 to #20 - ihaveabigpenis

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I still remember this episode as being the worst animated one

#32 to #20 - thechosentroll

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

That was a stylistic choice, though. They did it, because (god knows why) they thought it'd look better. Not because they ran out of cash.

#55 to #32 - noonelikesdan

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(08/12/2015) [-]

They let some trainee animators do it, for some reason.

#25 to #20 - naroemcgarson

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

You need to remember this guy is a nearly indestructible reanimated corpse that got hit in the face with a punch that basically had the force of a train behind it. Some facial distortion is expected.

#47 to #25 - toboz

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

no.
not indestructible, just a dead body with chakra rods in it.
it doesnt feel pain or anything though, hence screaming in pain doesnt make sense at all.
neither does losing conciousness to a rasengan in the end.

but Naruto has no logic or common sense in it, so who cares

#45 to #25 - anon id: 0a299a09

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

jesus ******* christ that is not an excuse for bad animation

#19 - jagoz

Reply +11 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Senzu Beans, not even once.

#24 - anon id: 12653d7c

Reply +8 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Don't compare films to tv animation, you'll just embarrass yourself.

#37 to #24 - tesarrior

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

yoooo whats that from m8? looks awesome

#15 - lastkage

Reply +8 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Sure thats one frame, heres a different one thats not bad. Though I do agree their budget is prob pretty low maybe when they stop recaping and get with the new story the art will get better.

#18 - totallytito

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I did some research; they're just budget-throttling.
They're saving the money for a more epic upcoming fight.

Don't let your hopes down yet, boys.

#39 to #18 - anon id: 1c4b81e9

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(08/12/2015) [-]

its too late m8

**** looks like college bros doing final animation

#44 to #18 - anon id: 80788c8b

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

>doesnt post any source
>says he is an animator
>still avatarfagging
**** off

#22 to #18 - kacem

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

You can't say thing like that without fact and evidences.

i have to thumb you down

#23 to #22 - totallytito

Reply -5 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I am an animator. Im a pretty good source for this kind of info.
Go ahead and thumb a credible source down.

#56 to #23 - threeeighteen

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I'm a nuclear physicist. Everyone should go eat dirt from Chernobyl because I'm a nuclear physicist on the internet.
Go ahead and thumb a credible source down.

#58 to #56 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

So salty

#59 to #58 - threeeighteen

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I'm not, just using the same logic as you.

#61 to #59 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

my friend, you are just being salty. I know about what is going on in the animation field, and budget throttling is important in order to preserve the quality of a show in later episodes.

Your poor sarcasm is rude.

#62 to #61 - threeeighteen

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Show source for it? Not going to trust your word for it.

#63 to #62 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I have no source, im observing a pattern that my animation professor went over in chapter 247.

#26 to #18 - alleksi

Reply +7 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

You're an animator and you talk about "budget" as if "budget" is what guarantees the quality of a drawing.

Goddamnit that's so ******* stupid.

It's not "budget" that creates good looking key frames. It's scheduling and resource management and talent. If you give your animators an unrealistic time frame to finish their work then they will half ass it and the end product will look like ****.

Whenever you see a studio **** up this bad, it's not because they ran out of money, it's because they ran out of time. This episode had problems beyond just key frame animation. Even the editing was bad and rushed. So it's not the animators that ****** up, the whole production line did. **** resource management and scheduling is more than likely what ****** up this episode, not money.

Yes it might be true that hiring better animators costs more money, therefore "more budget" means "better animation", but the differences shouldn't be big enough to make a proper difference. Yes, hiring some novelty animator like Hiroyuki Okiura or Takeshi Honda or someone to draw a scene for you will probably cost a lot more than hiring some relative no-name, but those kind of people are special for a reason and most animators aren't like that. I'm sure that a lack of talent (which seems to be a problem at Toei these days) contributed a lot to the quality of this episode, but even with a less talented staff the end product shouldn't be this bad if they had the time to fix their **** ups.

**** like in pic related doesn't get through the reviewing process without the producers saying "**** it, we have to air it, we have to air it like this, there's no other option"

If you want to see an example of proper resource management, scheduling and "budget throttling" please turn your eyes to the general direction of Kyoani's recent Hibike! Euphonium. Kyoani have ******* mastered this ****. They'll have like 8 animators work on one episode, and the episode still looks ******* incredible, and that's because they reserved enough time for their few animators to actually finish their scenes.

#27 to #26 - alleksi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

>**** like in pic related

oh yeah, forgot the image, just imagine the episode

#57 to #26 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Budget is everything.
Artists wont give you something good if you dont pay them something good.

#64 to #57 - alleksi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

But it's not. Scheduling, resource management and finding the appropriate talent to work on your show is everything. There's no set amount of money one must put into an episode of anime for it to look good.

Japanese animators are usually paid like **** and that hasn't stopped them from creating great looking drawings in the past. It's not a matter of how much you pay (well, it's a little, gotta pay them something), it's a matter of how much time you give them to finish their work and how much stress and pressure you put on them.

The animation director or the director or the producer would not have agreed on airing the episode the way it aired had they had the time to fix it.

If they were saving money, the drawings themselves would look fine, but the amount of frames would be fewer, there'd be more stills panning shots, but the drawings themselves would look fine. Evangelion is a textbook example of this.

#66 to #64 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

And besides if the TV series doesn't go well,
the Blueray version will probably be done completely differently, since it actually yields more money than TV.

Blueray always has 4x quality to discourage TV streaming pirates, gives the animators more time to fix some scenes, and encourages collectors to pick up entire batches of BD's at once(way more profitable than a movie).

This is why even horrible series like Gundam Seed buckled up and remastered their entire animation supply and replaced the recycled animation with genuine animation.
(The characters still look like ****).

So yeah, I'm confident that these guys know what you're doing.
The fact that you're so quick to shoot somebody down says a lot about yourself.

I for one am optimistic, and can put some faith in people that have worked long careers to get to where they wanted to be.

#69 to #66 - alleksi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

You are not understanding the difference between drawing quality, and amount of frames.

The characters are simply ****** up, off model, barely detailed, and that doesn't happen if they actually had the time to do things properly. That's the result of a poor production.

If the characters are on model, but don't move much, then that's the result of resource management (like you are saying this episode is). The animators are still capable artists, if you give the animation director time to do his thing and fix the poorly drawn cuts made by the animators, then this wouldn't happen. But obviously the animators and animation directors didn't have time to fix it.

Production ******** happen. And this is TOEI we're talking about, they are notorious for piss poor performance. Look at World Trigger.

#70 to #69 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

But they wouldn't deliberately **** up their own flagship series.
Trust me, they're conserving resources for a really good episode.
And if that fails, they're going to fix it in the Blueray.

#71 to #70 - alleksi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

>But they wouldn't deliberately **** up their own flagship series.

EXACTLY! It's not deliberate. It's unintentional. it's an accident, a **** up. They didn't mean to make this episode look like ****. It just happened. Animators don't INTENTIONALLY draw like ******* amateurs. They're artists. It's pretty hard for an artist to go "well **** you I'll do the work you're telling me to do but I'll do it really badly because **** the authority", no, that's not how it works. Yes, it does matter how much you pay your animators, but it doesn't make THIS big of a difference.

Not to mention it's not exactly the animators job to stay on model, it's the animation directors job. And animation directors are better paid than animators, so there shouldn't be any excuse for this ****.

Also, it's not like the pay of an animator changes depending on what episode they work on. "oh I'm working on episode 5 of DBS so I guess I'm getting ******* for this work, but thank god I still get to work on episode 10 which they'll pay me some good money for!". That's not how **** works. In that regard the whole "they're saving money with this episode at the same time they're using 18 key animators for this episode"

Look at this episode. It's not intentional that they made it this way. They just ****** up.

Yeah, they'll fix it in the bluray, a bit, but that is not the reason they aired this episode in the state that it was. They aired it like this because they had no other option. If they could have fixed this episode in time for the TV release, they would have done so.

Again: there's a difference between NGE episode 24 and Psycho Pass episode 18. The former is the result of resource management (what you claim DBS #5 is), while the latter is the result of a production **** up, just like this episode is.

#65 to #64 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

We're talking about Dragonball Z here.
A well-reputed and long-standing series.
Half of the animators in production are probably even former fans.
Do you think they're just going to screw this up?

Trust me, episode 4 was a filler fight.

And that fight alone had more than 3 episodes worth of animation considering the old DBZ heavily relied on teleportation and constantly looping 'fights' like these, only to occasionally interrupt it with a blast or punching a guy into the air.

These DBZ guys have countless animators, and could easily suck up as much money as Attack on Titan. I am confident that they are saving boatloads of cash for an episode 10 fight. Believe me, they are holding back.

#67 to #65 - alleksi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

>These DBZ guys have countless animators, and could easily suck up as much money as Attack on Titan. I am confident that they are saving boatloads of cash for an episode 10 fight. Believe me, they are holding back.

stop this. Animators are not ******* vending machines where the more coins you insert the more animation they'll give you. That's not how **** works. You give animators time and they'll do good work. and having many animators doesn't mean that they'll have greater quality. Like I said, look at kyoto animation, they use minimal amount of staff for their shows and their stuff looks amazing, because they know how to schedule properly.

The amount of dunning-kruger ******** you are spewing out right now is ******* ridiculous, none of the **** you are saying makes any sense.

>Half of the animators in production are probably even former fans.
>Do you think they're just going to screw this up?

how does that logic even work? If you were right and the animators would be doing great job because it's "the dragon ball", then by that logic this episode should have looked perfectly fine because their love and passion for the show itself would have conquered all "money issues". But the episode looked like garbage, so they obviously did screw it up.

So, no, that's not how **** works. It's not a money issue. It's a production ******* issue. somewhere along the production process something went wrong and they went behind schedule and had to rush the episode out. if you want other examples of production *******, look at psycho pass episode 18. It's another example where the studio simply ****** up and ran out of time and couldn't fix the episode for the TV airing. It happens. It's not the case of saving their resources for bigger episodes, again, look at Evangelion.

#68 to #67 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Yes it is exactly how it works.
If you pay a guy 8 dollars for work, he will give you 8 dollars worth of work.
Pay a man 20 dollars for work, he will give you 20 dollars of work.

Unless the guy is starving and desperate for a job, your **** pay is going to equal **** work.

Are you even employed? That's how a job works.

Money= motivation and time investment.

Do you think they have all the animators working at once on full throttle?
Absolutely not. it's expensive as hell. So sometimes they use fewer animators,
and sometimes they use more depending on the priority of the episode.

#72 to #68 - alleksi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

I hope you do understand that more animators =/= better quality.

Usually it's actually the opposite. If you see an episode where they use a butt-load of animators, say, 20 or something, then it usually means that they were in a rush to finish the episode. Again, look at Kyoani for example.

#73 to #72 - totallytito

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

Actually, more animators = quality.

I'll explain why;
when you have more guys working in parallel, every animator has more time to work on their specific chunk of a scene despite the total amount of time being the same.

This extra time per animator ensures higher quality, and more drawing precision.
Even better, if they mess up a frame, they have time to redraw it now.

Money makes a huge difference.

While it doesn't GUARANTEE higher quality, it certainly improves the likelihood of visual enhancement by almost 2/3 of a chance.

#74 to #73 - alleksi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

The way Japanese animation production works, having many animators is the sign of a rushed product more so than anything else. More animators=faster work. But also more animators=more work for animation director, director, and production people.

There seems to be a sweet spot of having around 10 animators per episode that most studios seem to go for.

The director has to go through every cut with every animator and tell them what to do, you can already see the problem that rises when you have too many animators, there's no time for all of those. In the west, at least in the movie industry, animators are divided in to groups where each group animates only certain characters and each character has like a head-animator. Japan doesn't have this, so each animator has to be adviced individually. In Japan it's more common for an animator to do multiple cuts for a scene, or do a whole scene all by himself.

Also when having too many key animators, the animation directors job can get tougher. When an animator works on multiple cuts, it's easier for the AD to review the bulk of the work from one animator. If there's something wrong with the animators cuts, giving critique is much easier. When working with too many animators, the AD has to be all over the places, fixing so many different things and approving different cuts by different animators. It's the reason why you sometimes see an episode have multiple animation directors (which is a bad thing because inconsistency in style); the AD couldn't finish the work by himself.

Also having multiple animators working on a single episode comes back to that whole "resource management" thing that I talked about earlier. As a studio, you would be much better off having 10 animators work on 2 episodes, than 20 animators work on 1 episode. (episode 5 had 18 key animators I think, 9 from Toei and 9 from Toei Philippines)

If you have a proper schedule that gives your animators enough time to work on their cuts, then you don't need to have 20 animators work on a single episode. That's why scheduling and resource management is important. It's the reason why Kyoani could make the best looking show in years with only ~7 key animators per episode.

#75 to #74 - totallytito

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

That is all absolutely true.
I'm glad you are doing your research.

#17 - mysteriouscake

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(08/12/2015) [-]

While the animation for this episode wasn't great, episodes 1-4 were good. Honestly until they get past the recap of battle of gods, I'm not going to be particularly critical.

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[ 75 comments ]

What the **** happened?

What the happened?