not a pro but I think that was the goal of his charecter.

You do realize this is the entire point, right? Ren is a whiny Vader wannabe and that's the whole idea

I think that was a very intentional choice on the director's part, and I expect your response is exactly what he wanted.

Vader was also like 40 odd years old. I like to see Kylo as what vader would have been if he never had the unfortunate burning/cripple incident since anakin was as much of a whiney bitch as kylo before losing to Obi-Wan humbled him

Gee, it's not like Anakin ever acted like a little bitch or anything.

You're overlooking quite a few things here.
Kylo Ren is still an apprentice, and not just in the context of rank; he's in no way ready to take on the same level of tasks that Vader was able to in the point of time that Episode IV and onward takes place in.

When Vader was an apprentice (i.e. as Anakin Skywalker), he had tons of hissy fits. He was incredibly shortsighted and thought his master and the Jedi Council were holding him back, and completely fell victim to his desire for affection from Padme instead of focusing on his necessary duties as a Padawan and later as a Jedi Knight. This is how Sidious was able to manipulate him into becoming Darth Vader in the first place, and this likely reflects how Snoke was able to manipulate Kylo Ren from being the son of super-good-guy Han Solo to apprentice of the dark side.

Kylo isn't a fully developed force user like Vader was in Ep IV. Judging from Snoke's final comment of having General Hux retrieve Kylo to "finish his training", it's quite likely in VIII we'll see a more matured, more powerful Kylo Ren that might prove to be a tougher opponent for the protagonists.

Well, when Kylie gets mad, he slashes up a wall or two.

When Darth Vader gets mad, he strangles one of his officers to death.

I think Kylo Ren has overall better anger management strategies.

I haven't seen star wars (ever) and your comment gave me cancer. I can tell from spoilers and what everyone is saying that he is meant to act like that. He isn't meant to be darth vader.

> never saw star wars
> thinks his opinion about star wars is valid

Am I wrong though? Or are you just trying to find a way to ignore what im saying.

A character can have his own development. He doesn't need to be a clone of anyone else. People have flaws.

If I wanted yo ignore what you're saying I'd just.. ignore what you're saying? Also what you said isn't even a reaction on what sgtxrootbeer said. He said Kylo is bad as a villain because he acts like a teenager hitting puberty. You react with saying 'this comment gives me cancer' and then say something that doesn't even contradict what sgtxrootbeer said, plus you haven't seen any star wars movie. what were you trying to achieve?

I don't need to disagree because acting like he's hit puberty isn't a bad thing, because it's his own character. And I got 11+ thumbs so people are obviously agreeing with me.

That's the point, it IS his own character and sgtxrootbeer thinks his character is silly and a bad villain. So your remark about 'kylo isn't meant to be vader' shows you (and 11 not 11+ other people) completely missed the point.

he never saw star wars
and conclude everything from spoilers

"I don't live in USA but I can tell from people on the internet, everyone in the USA are redneck"

you can judge it by yourself

So I can't say China is real unless I go there?

yes

completely different situation

No **** . But the concept is the same. You can't say you something about x, if you haven't seen x.

wether or not kylo ren is a darth vader wannabe or not is not even comparable to the question if china is real. If you're an engineer and I'm not and i start to give you 'tips' or my opinion on your calculations of course they don't mean **** , but everyone knows for a fact china is real. It's about specific vs. general. Your example is invalid.

that's not what I meant. it's just bad example and I can't think anything else.
come on, I believe you aren't this stupid.

opinions can't be wrong neither right. it's only agree or disagree.
and I disagree about his opinion. since his lack of star wars knowledge is disturbing hue

The first time Kylo had a fit I thought it was quite cool. Like he was full of rage and was a dangerous person to be around

Then he took off the ******* mask and you realised he was just an angsty teenager going through puberty

that's the point, Kylo is conflicted and trying to be something he's not. But Vader wasn't always calm, he choked out people who got under his skin

I like that Kylo isn't just a carbon copy of Vader and actually just a kid with minority complexes who throws autistic ragefits when he doesn't get what he wants

This.

People seem to want another Vader where as Kylo is more complex.
He wants what he can't have, and his rage fits show that he's desperate for power and that he's frustrated that he doesn't have it.

Darth Vader probably threw alot of bitch fits early in his career too.
Kylo is really young.
Darth Vader had alot more experience.

he definitely did throw a lot of bitch fits, hence the tusken raider massacre, the padawan massacre and killing padme

Even 20 years later, one of the main retirement packages for his officers is death by force. THIS basically counts as a disciplinary action for insulting a superior officer FFS.

Also, something i noticed very recently, when the admiral gets choked to death, the crew in the back never cared too much, However, his officers during this scene get the same look a dog gets when his abusive owner raises his hand.

I think that implies that while his angry outbursts may not be as dramatic as his grandson's, they are still very much there, and probably directed at the chain of command, not the walls.

it has been entirely too long since i last watched the original trilogy. forgot just how damn cool James Earl Jones sounds.

Yeah, Anakin, and early darth vader did throw alot of fits.

Kylo Ren is supposed to be a hissyfit throwing wannabe darth vader, I just hope they manage to properly develop his character in the other movies

That's the whole point. Kylo is trying to be like Vader, but clearly his teen angst and unstable emotions prevent him from keeping his cool the same way Vader did.

No he's not trying to be like vader because vader saw 'the light side' again in the end. He kills everything that ties him to the light side to prevent that. He's trying to avoid doing the same thing as vader, exact opposite of trying to be him. imo

That may be the only part of Vader he doesn't want to be. Someone can't remember who, exactly told him how he wanted to be Darth Vader, to he would never be the same as him. In response he became mad, but he never denied it.

It was Rey. She told him he'd never be as STRONG as vader which is a big difference. It doesn't mean he wants to be everything vader is, vader had his flaws. He just wanted to be on the same level of power, without the tendecy to eventually turn away from the dark side again actual spoiler> which is illustrated by him killing han, showing he wants to completely cut his ties with his 'light side' And of course he got mad/threw a tantrum. Rey, some jakku scavenger ho, owned him at his own force technique, and told him he'd never reach that power he wants.

im pretty sure he wants to be like vader. else i can't see the point of the mask.

and remember, he wants to be like vader, not anakin

Vader doesn't kill luke (his tie to the light side), and eventually sides with him (at the very very end). actual spoiler > Kylo kills han to prevent being like vader. He still admires vader for his power though.

Vader had a habit of killing people who made him even a little upset, even if they were just delivering news.

I mean, he didn't throw full tantrums, but he wasn't exactly calm.

Uh...

>Using ****** unfunny parody shows as a reference

Kylo ren is an emo kid, what did you expect.

It's almost like the character was designed to be like that or something.

I'm sorry but Darth Vader wasn't even a good villain, nevermind a good character. He looked cool and had a cool voice, but that's about as far as it goes.

********

**privileges used "*roll picture*"**
**privileges rolled image**gee it's almost like they're setting him up for character development or something But seriously though, everything from the way he walked felt like he was an angsty teen because that's exactly what he was supposed to portray.

The point is that he is flawed.

He's supposed to be emotionally weak and throw temper tantrums.

It's what makes him good

except he fails to bring in the sympathy points making him look like a brat throwing a temper tantrum.

the sympathetic woobie villain is a hard one to make. i understand they tried to make him loki v2. but they failed completely

It's not necessarily meant to be for sympathy.

It makes him human at least

yes but that is not enough in a movie.

a villain is supposed to be either threatherning, or sympathetic or atleast otherwise engaging.. he is supposed to be the main drivel outside of the main character,a reason for us to root for the hero or keep us invested in the story. if the main villain is just a whiny brat then the movie will suffer from it as a whole.

I thought he was pretty intimidating :l
I mean, for the most part, he was completely unpredictable. Never knew if he was gonna just cut this bitch down for disagreeing, or walk away. Scary **** yo.

he acted like a whiny brat. yes its threatherning if you have to be close to the homicidal whiny brat. but for someone viewing it from outside, it just came off as pathetic. specially condemning to his reputation was when he lost to finn and that chick i call mary. both of them having no experience in lightsaber dueling.


even with his wounds at the time he should have been able to defeat them.

He is pathetic man.

That's what is good about him. He's on the edge all the time. A whiny obsessive pathetic bitch with immense power who could easily snap at any point.

Not all villains are supposed to be tough guys. That would be insanely boring

He's a whiny brat with a ******** of power, which is a pretty intimidating thing.
He didn't lose to Finn, he whooped Finn's ass. Rey, on the other hand who isn't really a mary-sue , had quite a lot of trouble while fighting him until she was in dire straits and finally accepted that she was a jedi. Kylo was insanely ******* wounded, like. The bowcaster send fully armoured stormtroopers flying across cargo bays, while Kylo took that **** straight to the stomach and barely fell to his knees. It's obvious that he's powerful, but even a weapon that powerful is going to **** you up. Him hitting his wound to keep him pumped/awake, is a sign that he's struggling to even stay standing.

>finn managed to drive ben back
>finn managed to wound rey
>finn is a failure of a stormtrooper
>ben was later on defeated by a scavenger with no experience in combat
>such skill.

and those examples you showcased about the bow were from close range encounter. chewbacca shot it across the whole ravine they were in.

i think you fail to realize how greatly he was wounded by chewbacca's weapon. take a look at how the stormtroopers gets thrown into the air by it.

>Finn managed to drive almost mortally wounded Ren back
>Finn managed to wound almost mortally wounded Ren
>Why does that matter? It's his character arc
>Almost mortally wounded who was again wounded by Finn was defeated by a scavenger with what could be revealed to be the strongest force connection in a person in the Star Wars universe

The bowcaster's range obviously doesn't matter in the film, since we can see the force it hits him with. I've seen it twice now, and he steps back and his foot even slides on the spot slightly so as to stop him from flying away. Ren was ****** before he even encountered Finn and Rey out in the forest.

>skilled in the force
>lost to a stormtrooper and a scavenger.

>threatherning
sure if you find five year olds threatherning then i suppose you would find a five year old in the body of a 20 year old extremely scary?

with that logic you could say that vader lost to a farm boy at episode 6

Vader threw hissy fits too, and that scavenger had hidden force abilities that were stronger at the start than Kylo's did during training.

untrained potential =/= actually trained potential. if untrained potential counted for jack then anakin would have slaughtered everything in his path from the get go.


and vader might have acted out in anger, but it was controlled and well executed. coming off as a badass. bens hissy fits made him seem even more of a jerk than he already was. had they just gone with how he was in his first impressions in jakku, and then just little by little opened up to his insecurities, it would have gone a lot better for the character. but the way it is now. its not a well done character.

Vader choked people to get what he wanted. That's a pretty big hissy fit. And her base unlearned force abilities were stronger than his with training because he couldn't control his anger. With Han dead he no longer has a pull to the light besides his mother (who he really doesn't seem to care is alive or dead or not for some reason), he now has the chance to get stronger. he basically had a huge wall blocking his full power and all he could get power through was a tiny hole, now he can break that wall.

controlled terror. if you really think vader chocking people in his calm anger is the same as screaming like a reeree while throwing ones lightsaber around are the same thing, then you need to go out some more. and even anakin, when he was foggled up by emotions was still able to fight evenly againts obi wan, who was one of the best living jedi masters of his time.


face it bub, you are just trying to grasp on straws here.

Really? You call Anakin completely ******* up everything in his fight against Obi Wan fighting evenly? He was so blinded by rage after he choked out his baby mama he basically just was swinging blindly through fury. He gave up every advantage a smart fighter would have taken because he was so blinded.The only reason that fight made it as far as it did is because Obi Wan was trying to talk some sense into him. And Vader choked and killed his own men in his rage, Kylo destroyed equipment. Not only that but him doing that ended up striking fear into his troopers. That scene where he smashed that computer up and his troopers ran away showed just how much they feared him. Two different hissy fits, same result, fear. (Except for those Vader choked the **** out because some of them died.)

and vaders rage was controlled. it came off as more foreboding and badass than kylos temper tantrum. and we arent talking about what effect it had in verse. in verse, i would fear a retard with a gun as much as i would fear a military veteran with a gun. we are judging them as fictional characters in a fictional universe and what effect they had to the viewer. if you cant differentiate between real world and the movie, then you need to go and get some professional help.

and incase you haventh watched star wars return of the sith; anakin nearly killed obi wan twice during the duel, and the duel itself lasted for a good 10 minutes movie time. so yeah. that was pretty ******* even fight.

If you think Obiwan was fighting full force for all of that fight you are dense as hell. He held back a lot just to give himself time to try to talk him out of it. Vader didn't come off as badass in those scenes he came off a baby. He didn't like what they had to say so he choked them. Kylo also followed that suit. The only difference between Kylo and Vader is the amount of training they had. Vader who had much longer to learn to wield his anger properly showed huge weakness. And for good reason, the light side tugging at him stopped him from being able to fully master his dark power. he could never fully master his anger because the light side.

yyeah...all that talking during the fight...y know right after that moment obi wan resigned into killing anakin...idiot.

and darth vader attacked people who either failed him, or were disrespectful to him. and vader actually DID master the dark side. he didnt reach his full potential because of his wounds caused by obi wan. but he became one of the strongest force users to exist by the end of it.


, keep grasping on those straws kid.

Obi Wan through the whole fight, even after he said he would kill him, continued to try to hold him off and talk him out of it. He believed that Anakin was still able to be pulled back to the light. And Vader obviously didn't master the dark side or he would not have turned towards the light in the end. Vader's weakness was his control. In the end Obi Wan was right, Anakin could be pulled back to the light. It took almost seeing his son die to do it. A master of the Dark is like Count Dooku, calm control of his rage, the ability to harness it in all of it's pure heat. Vader never had a chance to reach his full Dark potential because of his tug of war with the light side.

vader did master the dark side, revan mastered the dark side. both of them came back to the light side. its rare but its not impossible.


and no...obi wan literally didnt say a word during the whole fight, until the end when it was clear he was going to win due to high ground advantage.


you really need to watch the movies before you flap your gums about it.

If you think that is mastery of the dark you really need to pay more attention, mastering the abilities is not the same as mastering the Force. He never had full grasp on all of his powers. The light stopped that. You really need to actually pay attention when you watch things, and take of the rose colored glasses for Vader. He had many flaws as a Sith and all of them were because he never truly reached his peak.

he didnt reach his peak because of the injuries caused by being nearly burned to death by lava. live as you preach sherlock. he still had mastery over the dark side and was "tenfold stronger than his younger counterpart" and had it not been for his injuries, he would have grown to be stronger than sidious.

You are obviously too dense to understand they are actually developing and growing this character in front of us instead of just handing us a badass. Vader's plan nver would have worked. Him keeping Luke alive ruined any plan he had to overthrow Palp. You are just too stuck up your own ass to ever understand. Enjoy your day.

and you are too dense to understand that that also doesnt count for ******** .also you are too dense to seperate fiction from real life...and to understand how an engaging character is created.

a movie needs to be an entertaining piece on its own. and thus its characters need to be entertaining in THE MOVIE IN QUESTION. rather than in the far off future. kylo FAILED to be this. and no. darth vaders only hope of defeating sidious lied with making luke a stronger dark lord than sidious was.


and i will enjoy the rest of my day in peace then. i do hope you will enjoy sucking on Abrahams cock in the meantime.

Kylo is still a child. He is not even a full part of the Sith yet, at the end of 7 he is just now going to finish his training. Kylo is the equivalent of a Sith padawan, Vader was a Sith Lord and acted as he did. Vader's plan was hugely flawed. As a Sith he should have known that his son was a huge liability to his control over the dark side. Kylo made a bigger step by killing his dad than Vader ever did. Vader decided to try to keep his weakness alive, which only made the pull to the light stronger. Kylo cut that tie off before it poisoned his chances of reaching his full power.

and? again, THAT HAS ******** TO DO WITH HIS CHARACTER. he is a whiny brat. he is supposed to be the main villain of the movie. one of the stables to which the entire thing is built upon. but yet again he was neither sympathetic enough for us to feel bad about him. nor badass enough to make him a threatherning villain. he was just a brat. you trying to argue that he is younger than vader has nothing to do with his quality as a fictional character.



and as for the rest of your unnesesary gargling that literally has nothing to do with this; vaders only chance of defeating sidious lied with luke. without lukes help he would not be able to overpower and kill palp. while kylos decision to kill his father was instructed to him by his master. again, none of this has anything to do with the discussion at hand.

And Guess what? Kylo solved his pull to the light. His father was what was pulling him to the light, why he couldn't gain control of his dark powers. He solved that. He has room to grow. Vader constantly let his pity towards his kids get in his way and in the end it is what drew him to the light. Kylo may at this moment still be weaker and in less control, but he took the step he needed to fully grow. Now that he is going to complete his training he will be able to gain his full power.

which doesnt change that he is a shoddy character that acts like a brat.

and vader was constantly planning to get his kid to join the dark side in order to usurp the position of master from sidious and rule the galaxy himself. and even then; he came off as a lot more relatable and badass than kylo.well..just about any decently put together villain could do that tho...

We are talking his peak mentally not physically. He could never reach his mental peak because of his fight mentally with the light. He never had a chance. His injuries had no effect on his link with the force.

they did. most of his force powers were directed in helping him even fight properly. not to mention the wounds hampered with his connection to the force itself. force is after all BOTH PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL THING.


i also love how you went from arguing kylo ren being a badass to arguing that both kylo and vader were pussies to arguing obi wan never tried to truly kill anakin during their duel where he nearly killed him 3 times before leaving him to die via burning to death to "anakin never mastered the dark side"

goalposting much?

Yeah, he's a whiny little bitch. He's also practically still a teenager. He's got a lot of room to grow as a character because he's so flawed now. Vader, in truth, didn't grow that much. He had no arc before the last 30 minutes or so of Episode VI.

kylo isnt a professional, hes not even a proper sith yet, hes literally some padawan who was seduced by the dark side and recruited by snoke, hes not MEANT to be like vader, and he shouldnt be, at least not yet.

Well Vader was a good lot of years older than Kylo currently is, Anakin before he got burned was somewhat childish too.

Well maybe they'll turn that around. Actual spoiler -> Towards the end, that wrinkly reject of a Mass effect male asari, did mention that his training wasn't complete, so maybe he didn't have full control over his emotions? So when he does complete his training, he'll be more direct in his anger. Like striking better, increasing his abilities too. Instead of thrashing about like a pissed off honeybadger.

The little **** is strong with the force, but lacks the control it takes to be a Jedi, and isn't passionate enough to be Sith. That being said proper Jedi died out in episode 3 and Luke sure as hell isn't one He used blind rage to beat Vader, even if Vader was holding back

luke is pretty much the strongest jedi to come out of the wood works in star wars canon.as well as among the strongest force users par sidious and viliante...and maybe revan.plus he did master his feelings in the end of the climax and became a proper jedi.

Not a proper Jedi, even when he remade the Jedi order in the original cannon or Legends of whatever the **** it was still massively different, it wasn't emotionless sexless monks anymore Hell even Luke himself ended up somewhere in the grey Jedi area like Reven, mainly since he had no idea what he was doing since he got about a week's worth of training with yoda

and the jedi order that yoda and such were part of was also highly different from the original concept as it was rebuilt by exar kun after it nearly fell due to the rebellion caused by the revanites that went to fight againts the mandalorians...but i do agree that introducing emotions back might be a bad idea for jedis...

Oh yeah it went real **** real quick for about 40% of his students but the other 60% where arguably more powerful than their republic equivalents. Reven was able to master both sides of the force making him one of the most powerful force users period hell in the arguably competent MMO there is a side quest where you infiltrate a cult to him trying to do exactly what he did, and there ******* bad asses.

i recall that.i destroyed the cult with imperial agent. and are we talking about revans army?(all except one guy went to the dark side, all except two came out) or lukes? and yeah. revan was the strongest jedi to ever live, as well as pretty much in the top 3 or 5 force users ever

That's the one, but it isn't even seen to be destroyed, you search if they are going agents the empire which they are and chose to turn them in or not

as imperial agent you have the option to sabotage their progress, enforce their dark side tendencies as well as kill their leader and supplant it with a mole that will drive the revanists towards the dark side.

kylo got blasted in the crotch before the fight, wasn't very fair. He woul'dve rekt finn. He also didn't even use the force vs finn

*would've

How is a dead guy going to be a villain, exactly?

Kylo Ren seems to be the humanized, flawed villain whose character who's meant to undergo some character development as the movies progress, just like a protagonist would. It's not inconceivable that he could change sides because it's been established that "there's still good in him". That's why it was somewhat surprising what he did when he faced his father - we didn't actually know what to expect.
I don't know if he's meant to be the main villain of the trilogy - I think that may be Snoke.

Finn didn't really handle himself against Kylo, though. He got his ass kicked despite Kylo's severe wounds from a bowcaster shot straight to the gut. We saw the thing fling people through the air and kill multiple stormtroopers with one shot, so the fact that he tanked it makes him pretty tough. Finn still only lightly wounded Kylo Ren before being laid out. Rey beat him.

its disney

be happy they didnt have characters randomly break out into song a dozen times in the movie

Yea i hated when they did that in all the Marvel movies...

**chaosraptor used "*roll 1, Magic 8-Ball*"**
**chaosraptor rolls Don't count on it**
does artjunk want a fairy wish prince