What if devil is the good God?
allows us tta till
ami' is tricking us with
IN take of heaven after death?
ami' is tricking us with
IN take of heaven after death?
...
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Anonymous comments allowed.
76 comments displayed.
#24
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zekeon (11/12/2014) [-] 
Personally, I don't worry about what happens after death.
I'm far more concerned with what happens today or tomorrow.
I'm far more concerned with what happens today or tomorrow.
#1
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ronjeremysweiner (11/12/2014) [-]
religion isn't just about getting to ******** eachother in heaven after death which is what atheists seem to think it is
alot of atheists like to argue that the only reason people are religious is because we fear death
that isn't true
at-least in alot of cases
alot of atheists like to argue that the only reason people are religious is because we fear death
that isn't true
at-least in alot of cases
#10 to #1
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superafromanxd (11/12/2014) [-] if i were to ever follow some type of religious doctrine it would probably be satanism. Not the 8th grade ******** people seem to pass of. but if you actually do research into it mostly about personal freedoms and self expression. Basically what Lucifer stood for before being cast down
#52 to #47
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ronjeremysweiner (11/13/2014) [-]
tell me where in the bible it says i cant be rammed into dark crevices until i puke
#66 to #15
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doctorprofessornv (11/13/2014) [-] The whole idea is basically final peace. No more worry, no more suffering, no more doubt, no more fear, no more embarrassment, etc.... Just total and absolute peace. At least that's how I've come to understand it.
#59 to #56
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ronjeremysweiner (11/13/2014) [-]
nah
i just cant see a graceful and loving god sending anyone to hell
i think maybe theres a hell, but the christian god definitely isn't going around damning anyone that dies without being baptized. thats just ********* the church wants you to believe
i just cant see a graceful and loving god sending anyone to hell
i think maybe theres a hell, but the christian god definitely isn't going around damning anyone that dies without being baptized. thats just ********* the church wants you to believe
#61 to #60
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ronjeremysweiner (11/13/2014) [-]
i think all of the bible is corrupted except maybe revelations
but anything in there like love thy neighbor as thyself and **** like that i think is the word of god
but too much of it's been changed to control people
the #1 thing i think is BS is god being all knowing and all powerful
i believe he is more like a really wise and powerful being, but not so powerful he can just end everything with the snap of his finger
but anything in there like love thy neighbor as thyself and **** like that i think is the word of god
but too much of it's been changed to control people
the #1 thing i think is BS is god being all knowing and all powerful
i believe he is more like a really wise and powerful being, but not so powerful he can just end everything with the snap of his finger
#65 to #62
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ronjeremysweiner (11/13/2014) [-]
of course
i have Atheist friends that are great people and are actually more fun to talk about **** like this with though i would argue that an Atheists morals, no matter how little of an influence it had, has been shaped by an Abrahamic religion in some way down the line simply because the modern western world was built largely by Christians and Jews
and ya i do care if i go to heaven or not, but i dont think not getting into heaven is the worst fate there is, and the fear of it shouldn't shape who someone is
i have Atheist friends that are great people and are actually more fun to talk about **** like this with though i would argue that an Atheists morals, no matter how little of an influence it had, has been shaped by an Abrahamic religion in some way down the line simply because the modern western world was built largely by Christians and Jews
and ya i do care if i go to heaven or not, but i dont think not getting into heaven is the worst fate there is, and the fear of it shouldn't shape who someone is
#80 to #79
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ronjeremysweiner (11/14/2014) [-]
I agree that morality and empathy and all that is natural, when i say an Abrahamic religion has had an influence on everyone's morality, im not going that far back
lets start at the point when colonists started coming to america i wanna say late 1500's but im not sure and dont feel like looking it up pretty much everyone that came over before the 1700's was basically a religious extremist by today's standards atleast most of the groups coming over were a branch off Christianity and their morals come from their study of the bible. their beliefs are passed on for generations
now a kid grows up with a christian family, as he gets older he drifts away from religion, but he still believes in some of the core values like humility, love, **** like that
then he has a kid, that kids not religious, but he still gets from his dad that he should be humble and kind towards others.
so i guess recent relatively recent history you can say morals are influenced by Abrahamic religions, but i suppose if you go far back enough, those Abrahamic religions are influenced simply by human emotions
and i agree, that the original bible had to of been corrupted by the church, the only book that i think might not be is revelations since it says at the end that anyone that ***** with it will get butt-raped by the plague, though of course that could be BS too
and as for there being older religions, of course there are, personally i believe the christian god is young are you ready for this, you're gonna think im an insane faggot but seriously i think its possible Running out of character count gonna put it in other comment
lets start at the point when colonists started coming to america i wanna say late 1500's but im not sure and dont feel like looking it up pretty much everyone that came over before the 1700's was basically a religious extremist by today's standards atleast most of the groups coming over were a branch off Christianity and their morals come from their study of the bible. their beliefs are passed on for generations
now a kid grows up with a christian family, as he gets older he drifts away from religion, but he still believes in some of the core values like humility, love, **** like that
then he has a kid, that kids not religious, but he still gets from his dad that he should be humble and kind towards others.
so i guess recent relatively recent history you can say morals are influenced by Abrahamic religions, but i suppose if you go far back enough, those Abrahamic religions are influenced simply by human emotions
and i agree, that the original bible had to of been corrupted by the church, the only book that i think might not be is revelations since it says at the end that anyone that ***** with it will get butt-raped by the plague, though of course that could be BS too
and as for there being older religions, of course there are, personally i believe the christian god is young are you ready for this, you're gonna think im an insane faggot but seriously i think its possible Running out of character count gonna put it in other comment
#81 to #80
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ronjeremysweiner (11/14/2014) [-]
in Norse Mythology there are alot of similarities, one of the huge ones i think is how the god Baldr is the god of light and purity and **** like that.
in his myth he's killed by Loki, and he has to remain in Hel until after Ragnarok (the end of the world) after which he will be resurrected. now during Ragnarok the world serpent jormungandr causes the world to flood. and all the norse gods die except 2 sons of thor now, what if jesus was actually baldrs resurrection
in his myth he's killed by Loki, and he has to remain in Hel until after Ragnarok (the end of the world) after which he will be resurrected. now during Ragnarok the world serpent jormungandr causes the world to flood. and all the norse gods die except 2 sons of thor now, what if jesus was actually baldrs resurrection
#3 to #1
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noahlikespie (11/12/2014) [-] I'm atheist because I don't like the way for the most part that most religions try to make you act mostly talking about Christianity here. If you want to get a tattoo? Why not? Religion doesn't seem as nice to me as many religious people say it is. Growing up in a Christian household, with my father still being a very devout Christian and I being only sixteen , I've had many restrictions in life, that I know consider to be very pointless... Thumb to you though, for not just being a dick about atheism...
#7 to #3
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anon (11/12/2014) [-]
Eh, Im a Christian and the way I see it, as long as you love Jesus and love your fellow human beings it doesn't matter if you follow all the outdated rules. Jesus himself said these were the most important.
I view the old testament being in the Bible not as a strict set of rules to follow, but as a "historical" account so the messages in the new testament make more sense. I hate to see people get turned away from religion because certain people follow it WAY too strictly and enforce their beliefs on others.
I view the old testament being in the Bible not as a strict set of rules to follow, but as a "historical" account so the messages in the new testament make more sense. I hate to see people get turned away from religion because certain people follow it WAY too strictly and enforce their beliefs on others.
#25 to #7
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ianchrist (11/12/2014) [-] Catholicxplain:
Catholics believe that accepting Jesus is unnecessary to get into Heaven. All you need to do is feel bad for bad things you have done and repent. Atheists/Jew/Aliens can go to Heaven as long as they dont murder people (and even if they do, they can make up for it)
we only spread out\r religion because (in theory) it should create peace.
"Guys, there's an after life where your rewards for being nice, also here are some answers to the universe"
but then the church got corrupt and it all went downhill
Catholics believe that accepting Jesus is unnecessary to get into Heaven. All you need to do is feel bad for bad things you have done and repent. Atheists/Jew/Aliens can go to Heaven as long as they dont murder people (and even if they do, they can make up for it)
we only spread out\r religion because (in theory) it should create peace.
"Guys, there's an after life where your rewards for being nice, also here are some answers to the universe"
but then the church got corrupt and it all went downhill
#29 to #7
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landartheconqueror ONLINE (11/12/2014) [-] you're the best kind of person
and by that, i mean that you have the same theistic views that i do
and by that, i mean that you have the same theistic views that i do
#43 to #30
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landartheconqueror ONLINE (11/13/2014) [-] less narcissistic, because i hate myself, and more "you have similar views to my own, we share a common interest, by that, i like your views, i like you"
#33 to #7
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hurzg (11/12/2014) [-]
I also feel the same about Islam, I'm no longer following it step by step and taking the verses literal after deciding I didn't want everyone who is not a Muslim would go to hell whether they were good or not. I mean even Prophet said 'I'm just a human, I can do mistakes as well as the other guy'. He tried very much to not idolize himself (for example no pictures rule) but I think he failed to do so. People are revolting because some caricaturist draw him. Religion is a way for me to get up happy in the mornings and the will boost to do good.
#76 to #33
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iamkagji (11/13/2014) [-] Problem is, the Qur'an(I think that's how you spell it) is SUPPOSED to be taken literally. The bible is filled with a bunch of metaphors and stories and stuff as teaching tools and whatnot, but not the book that Islam follows. If you don't take it literally, you aren't technically a Muslim. At that point you're an off-shoot, sort of like Episcopalians with the Catholic Church.
#6 to #3
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ezombio (11/12/2014) [-] Yeah, I agree parent attitudes have lot to do with it though.
My parents didn't present the household faith as a chore or a set of rules, it was an aside with some good ideas and a way of living life with a different view.
When parents just lay it down as a book and set of restrictions, that's exactly what it turns into.
My parents didn't present the household faith as a chore or a set of rules, it was an aside with some good ideas and a way of living life with a different view.
When parents just lay it down as a book and set of restrictions, that's exactly what it turns into.
#8 to #3
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yunoavailable (11/12/2014) [-] two things to say about this.
number 1, that is no reason to be an atheist. no matter how people act the decision on whether or not to believe a god exists should be based on your personal feelings and any evidence scientific evidence does support evolution but it does not explain how the universe actually came to be AKA what caused the big bang. I would lean towards trusting personal evidence .
Number 2 is that a lot of those rules are not looked at in the proper context. the rule about not getting tattoos for example was because in that culture, the tattoos were a sign of worshipping other gods. so basically he was telling them that they shouldn't get markings that identify them as belonging to a pagan group. That passage is often misinterpreted because especially in certain ultra-conservative branches of christianity they just dont like tattoos and people always seek to find evidence that supports what they already believe
number 1, that is no reason to be an atheist. no matter how people act the decision on whether or not to believe a god exists should be based on your personal feelings and any evidence scientific evidence does support evolution but it does not explain how the universe actually came to be AKA what caused the big bang. I would lean towards trusting personal evidence .
Number 2 is that a lot of those rules are not looked at in the proper context. the rule about not getting tattoos for example was because in that culture, the tattoos were a sign of worshipping other gods. so basically he was telling them that they shouldn't get markings that identify them as belonging to a pagan group. That passage is often misinterpreted because especially in certain ultra-conservative branches of christianity they just dont like tattoos and people always seek to find evidence that supports what they already believe
#12 to #8
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noahlikespie (11/12/2014) [-] I know that there is no evidence as to what caused the Big Bang, and I do understand the fact that many of the rules are outdated, but the Baptist Church my father always brought me to, always taught that every word should be taken as it is. So that's a small part of it, but some of the things in the universe out in space, the pillars of creation, the cat eye nebula, etc, I just can't personally imagine a divine being creating such things, and then us... Whats the point? And I've seen just so much death in my life, I don't see why a benevolent omniscient being would take such young, innocent lives...
#72 to #12
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yunoavailable (11/13/2014) [-] the explanation for that is that he allows us to have free will. He allows people to do horrible things because if there was no option to do that, how would serving him be of any glory to him?
as to your other point I don't know why you can't imagine a divine being creating those various structures in space. like what about them seems wrong to you?
as to your other point I don't know why you can't imagine a divine being creating those various structures in space. like what about them seems wrong to you?
#22
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thedungeonmaster (11/12/2014) [-] There was no pearly gate.
The only reason I knew I was in a cave was because I had just passed the entrance. The rock wall rose behind me with no ceiling in sight.
I knew this was it, this was what religion talked about, what man feared .. I had just entered the gate to hell.
I felt the presence of the cave as if it was a living, breathing creature. The stench of rotten flesh overwhelmed me.
Then there was the voice, it came from inside and all around.
“Welcome”
“Who are you?”, I asked, trying to keep my composure.
“You know”, the thing answered.
I did know.
“You are the devil”, I stuttered, quickly losing my composure. “Why me? I’ve lived as good as I could”.
The silence took over the space as my words died out. It seemed like an hour went by before the response came.
“What did you expect?”
The voice was penetrating but patient.
“I don’t know .. I never believed any of this”, I uttered “Is that why I am here?”
Silence.
I continued: “They say the greatest trick you ever pulled was convincing the world you don’t exist”
“No, the greatest trick I ever pulled was convincing the world that there is an alternative”
“There is no God?” I shivered.
The cave trembled with the words: “I am God”
(This was the description on a user's content. I could probably find it to credit him but I don't want to. Just know that I didn't come up with this. Just thought it was relevant to this post.)
The only reason I knew I was in a cave was because I had just passed the entrance. The rock wall rose behind me with no ceiling in sight.
I knew this was it, this was what religion talked about, what man feared .. I had just entered the gate to hell.
I felt the presence of the cave as if it was a living, breathing creature. The stench of rotten flesh overwhelmed me.
Then there was the voice, it came from inside and all around.
“Welcome”
“Who are you?”, I asked, trying to keep my composure.
“You know”, the thing answered.
I did know.
“You are the devil”, I stuttered, quickly losing my composure. “Why me? I’ve lived as good as I could”.
The silence took over the space as my words died out. It seemed like an hour went by before the response came.
“What did you expect?”
The voice was penetrating but patient.
“I don’t know .. I never believed any of this”, I uttered “Is that why I am here?”
Silence.
I continued: “They say the greatest trick you ever pulled was convincing the world you don’t exist”
“No, the greatest trick I ever pulled was convincing the world that there is an alternative”
“There is no God?” I shivered.
The cave trembled with the words: “I am God”
(This was the description on a user's content. I could probably find it to credit him but I don't want to. Just know that I didn't come up with this. Just thought it was relevant to this post.)
#14
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anon (11/12/2014) [-] - He gave us the gift of knowledge
- He accepts all of the children God doesn't want
- He doesn't act like we're horrible people because we live the human condition
- He doesn't allow rape
- He doesn't want us hurting kids
- He wants us to have good reason for killing animals
- He doesn't allow theft
- He doesn't allow you to be snobby
Satan's 10/10 pretty good guy
- He accepts all of the children God doesn't want
- He doesn't act like we're horrible people because we live the human condition
- He doesn't allow rape
- He doesn't want us hurting kids
- He wants us to have good reason for killing animals
- He doesn't allow theft
- He doesn't allow you to be snobby
Satan's 10/10 pretty good guy
#31 to #14
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rakaka (11/12/2014) [-] -No he didn't. Where are you getting this?
-No he doesn't. Satan isn't the "king" of Hell. He's punished along with everything else there
-I'm not sure what this means
-No one does. Besides, these rules were written when one guy sat down and decided to write them
-See above point
-So does God and most people
-See above
-Matthew 6:5
I'd rather not worship someone who wants me to destroy people.
-No he doesn't. Satan isn't the "king" of Hell. He's punished along with everything else there
-I'm not sure what this means
-No one does. Besides, these rules were written when one guy sat down and decided to write them
-See above point
-So does God and most people
-See above
-Matthew 6:5
I'd rather not worship someone who wants me to destroy people.
#32
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kalimah (11/12/2014) [-] I really hate those people that said "When i go to hell im going to party all day with the devil girls!"
The only party is going to be on your butthole and its not going to be the good kind before anyone says "im ok with that"
The only party is going to be on your butthole and its not going to be the good kind before anyone says "im ok with that"
#34 to #32
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racistwhiteboy (11/12/2014) [-] have you considered that these people may not believe what you believe?
#28
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rakogoki (11/12/2014) [-] “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” - Mark Twain
afterlife doesnt even come to mind when i think about death perosnally.
afterlife doesnt even come to mind when i think about death perosnally.
#13
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dvdfaust ONLINE (11/12/2014) [-] I wish I could find the quote, I remember seeing something along the lines of "if I was the devil, I would convince people I had arrived on Earth as the son of God. I would convince them to follow me and accept me into their hearts and lives, convince them to put symbols of me in their holy places. It would be the ultimate deception."
#26
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semenslurpinglily (11/12/2014) [-] The Devil is supposed to be good, the best liar.
What would be the best lie, than telling you that he is God?
And that God is the Devil?
The Bible is the greatest lie, the book of the Devil disguised as God.
Or some **** like that, I dunno.
What would be the best lie, than telling you that he is God?
And that God is the Devil?
The Bible is the greatest lie, the book of the Devil disguised as God.
Or some **** like that, I dunno.
#11
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captainfuckitall ONLINE (11/12/2014) [-] This is actually the premise of Theistic Satanism, that Satan is actually the good guy who lost a big battle and god's propaganda machine just keeps dishing out bad things about him.
#9
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cykocd (11/12/2014) [-] I discovered George Carlin when i was 12, and i think he profoundly affected my growth as a person.
#37
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jibb (11/12/2014) [-] As I view it, The devil is evil.
Many say that "Yeah, but if he punishes bad people, he must be good, right?"
I think of it more as like God only want good people in Heaven. Therefore, he selects the believing and kind spirits, but not the rapists, feminazis and cuntfolk.
But the Devil wants to join in too, but all the good people have already left for heaven. Therefore, the only people he can torture with his toys are bad people.
thus, The Devil is evil.
I am an atheist btw.
Many say that "Yeah, but if he punishes bad people, he must be good, right?"
I think of it more as like God only want good people in Heaven. Therefore, he selects the believing and kind spirits, but not the rapists, feminazis and cuntfolk.
But the Devil wants to join in too, but all the good people have already left for heaven. Therefore, the only people he can torture with his toys are bad people.
thus, The Devil is evil.
I am an atheist btw.
#38 to #37
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WillWalrus (11/12/2014) [-] The problem I have with religion is
if people claim that God is loving and all-forgiving
why is he okay with letting people (even evil ones) get tortured for all eternity? Where's the forgiveness there?
I feel like there's an easy answer for this but I can't see it.
if people claim that God is loving and all-forgiving
why is he okay with letting people (even evil ones) get tortured for all eternity? Where's the forgiveness there?
I feel like there's an easy answer for this but I can't see it.
#68 to #38
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mapleknight (11/13/2014) [-] Well, is a compassionate judge in a court of law a cruel judge for sending someone to jail?
God is the ultimate, and most holy judge of all. However much he loves everyone, he cannot just let you slip past. But, observe the situation from this point of view: You've committed a crime. Whatever crime it is, but let's say the fine is $5,000, or you go to jail. The judge just happens to be your father who loves you beyond all description. He cannot let you just walk out because he loves you, and he must judge you according to the law - and it just so happens he cannot pay the fine himself. However, that does not mean he cannot go to his eldest son and say, "Your brother's fine is $5,000, and I cannot pay it. You must."
God is the ultimate, and most holy judge of all. However much he loves everyone, he cannot just let you slip past. But, observe the situation from this point of view: You've committed a crime. Whatever crime it is, but let's say the fine is $5,000, or you go to jail. The judge just happens to be your father who loves you beyond all description. He cannot let you just walk out because he loves you, and he must judge you according to the law - and it just so happens he cannot pay the fine himself. However, that does not mean he cannot go to his eldest son and say, "Your brother's fine is $5,000, and I cannot pay it. You must."
#74 to #68
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iamkagji (11/13/2014) [-] If he loves everyone, then why does an emaciated 6-year-old in africa have to die slowly of exposure while a parasititic worm eats his eyes from the inside? Why is cancer a thing? I'm not even talking about what people do to other people. I'm talking about the **** people can't avoid and still suffer and die from, horribly, through no fault of their own. Tell me how a "compassionate god who loves us all" makes that sort of **** , knowing full well he's just torturing millions to death for the lulz
Here's a tip: "God works in mysterious ways" and other assorted cop-out ******** gets you an F
Here's a tip: "God works in mysterious ways" and other assorted cop-out ******** gets you an F
#77 to #74
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mapleknight (11/13/2014) [-] God didn't make it. We brought it upon ourselves when we chose to corrupt our own world with our sin. God is not happy with the death and pain of the wicked. While I agree these things are horrible, and while I'm sure God does as well, we did this to ourselves. We insisted that we could rule ourselves, but we can't.
#71 to #68
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WillWalrus (11/13/2014) [-] Yeah, but every punishment ends sometime.
Even a life sentence ends when you die.
But eternal life in hell is just that, eternal; you can't die. Now this might be subjective, but that seems a hell of a lot more cruel than just sticking someone in jail.
Even a life sentence ends when you die.
But eternal life in hell is just that, eternal; you can't die. Now this might be subjective, but that seems a hell of a lot more cruel than just sticking someone in jail.
#78 to #71
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mapleknight (11/13/2014) [-] But, just like crimes in real life, we have chosen to sin.
When you lie, you know you have lied. When you commit adultery, you know what you're doing. When you murder, you know exactly what you're doing.
And, again, just like crimes in real life, these stack up. Maybe we are not in Hell forever, perhaps those in Hell will be liberated by Christ in his return. I hope so, anyway, but honestly, I can't pretend to know everything about Heaven or Hell. I don't know anything about them.
When you lie, you know you have lied. When you commit adultery, you know what you're doing. When you murder, you know exactly what you're doing.
And, again, just like crimes in real life, these stack up. Maybe we are not in Hell forever, perhaps those in Hell will be liberated by Christ in his return. I hope so, anyway, but honestly, I can't pretend to know everything about Heaven or Hell. I don't know anything about them.
#2
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themanhodge ONLINE (11/12/2014) [-] Who would you like more, the guy that hates you and makes you be a dick so you can pay for it the rest of your life, or the guy who had his own flesh and blood killed for the sake of you not being a dick to everybody and spend eternity in paradise.
#70
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SteyrAUG (11/13/2014) [-] >God makes humans.
>God makes lucifer.
>God gives humans rules and **** .
>Lucifer doesn't like God's rules and runs away to make new heaven with blackjack and hookers
>God tells people not to go to Lucifer's heaven
>Lucifer says no one will believe Him.
>God says "Lol don't you know how stupid I made people?"
>God makes lucifer.
>God gives humans rules and **** .
>Lucifer doesn't like God's rules and runs away to make new heaven with blackjack and hookers
>God tells people not to go to Lucifer's heaven
>Lucifer says no one will believe Him.
>God says "Lol don't you know how stupid I made people?"
#64
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megatrollinator (11/13/2014) [-] Well... check the Difference in Kill-Count between God (Yahweh) and the Devil (Satan):
Yahweh: 2,000,000,000+
Satan: 10
I AM NOT MAKING THIS **** UP
Yahweh: 2,000,000,000+
Satan: 10
I AM NOT MAKING THIS **** UP
#48
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chaoticlaw (11/13/2014) [-] Maybe god has multiple personality disorder and is both himself and satan.
Maybe every god ever thought up actually exists, but only interferes with those that believe in that certain religion.
Maybe there is only one being that's doing all the **** in the universe, including the stuff we think we do, and just keeps itself unknown.
Maybe everything was created by some guy in the future who accidentally caused the Big Bang through time travel.
Maybe everything was made through an irreversible loop, and we're just a constantly working cog, going around and around, always repeating what we've already done without even realizing it.
Maybe it's Maybelline.
Maybe every god ever thought up actually exists, but only interferes with those that believe in that certain religion.
Maybe there is only one being that's doing all the **** in the universe, including the stuff we think we do, and just keeps itself unknown.
Maybe everything was created by some guy in the future who accidentally caused the Big Bang through time travel.
Maybe everything was made through an irreversible loop, and we're just a constantly working cog, going around and around, always repeating what we've already done without even realizing it.
Maybe it's Maybelline.
#46
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hashtronaut (11/13/2014) [-] inb4 someone mentions a fedora, but I believe both notions were man-made
not that i go cramming this opinion down the throat of every religion person, that **** is exactly the kind of behavior most anti-religion people claim to hate. But.. personally for me? It's like this..
I think there's definitely something greater than "us" out there, we can't be the very top of the food chain....But I also don't think humankind has any idea what it is. Too often religion is used by people to have a sense of control over others and such...and that's ****** . But, if you just use religion to remind yourself not to be a dick while you're alive then hey amen and such
not that i go cramming this opinion down the throat of every religion person, that **** is exactly the kind of behavior most anti-religion people claim to hate. But.. personally for me? It's like this..
I think there's definitely something greater than "us" out there, we can't be the very top of the food chain....But I also don't think humankind has any idea what it is. Too often religion is used by people to have a sense of control over others and such...and that's ****** . But, if you just use religion to remind yourself not to be a dick while you're alive then hey amen and such
