Vader's motivation to betray the Emperor
Tags: star wars
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#2
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huntergriff ONLINE (12/27/2015) [-] 
When you trying to save the galaxy from your dad and his buddies but she still suckin'
#14
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muffincannibal (12/27/2015) [-] I've kinda want to see a version where Skywalker and Darthvader get some father and son bonding, and do evil **** 'n stuff.
#59 to #14
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charredenay (12/27/2015) [-] There's an illustrated book that does that. I forget the name.
#27 to #5
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kenshirokisame (12/27/2015) [-] mesa be thinkings viewcomics.com s. Mesa reads the bombad comics awwa da time. maxibid paying for da ting
#31 to #30
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arthurdetoo (12/27/2015) [-] thx, he's working on the 3rd one at the moment. I voiced the emperor
#89
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basichaharemix (12/27/2015) [-]
In The Emperor's defense, I don't think he really knew if Padamymay or Panda Bear was alive or dead. Don't think he really cared. Unless there was a deleted scene in Episode III that shows him coming across her body.
Even then, Emperor Palps wasn't far off saying that Vader killed her...I mean she did die later on because "she lost the will to live" after the person she loved tried to kill her and went to the dark side.
So what Palaptine told Vader was true...from a certain point of view...
Even then, Emperor Palps wasn't far off saying that Vader killed her...I mean she did die later on because "she lost the will to live" after the person she loved tried to kill her and went to the dark side.
So what Palaptine told Vader was true...from a certain point of view...
#144 to #89
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joekerr (12/27/2015) [-] Palpatine transfered her lifeforce into Anakin/Vader. That's how he knew of her demise and how Anakin survived.
Doubt me? Rewatch the movie and keep attention on what you see, and not some droid's explanation about the loss of will to live - sucks when you can't sense force and stuff.
Doubt me? Rewatch the movie and keep attention on what you see, and not some droid's explanation about the loss of will to live - sucks when you can't sense force and stuff.
#170 to #144
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basichaharemix (12/28/2015) [-] I'm still going to doubt you and that theory you're referring to because:
1. It's just a fan theory.
2. It's just speculation. Never has been confirmed.
3. Droids can't sense the force. Okay, well Obi-Wan is right there. Pretty sure he can sense the dark side. And if he can't then there's Yoda right there with him. Yoda. Very strong with the force he is. Infact, he just got done meditating with Qui-Gon Jinn. Someone who is one with the force and is most likely very capable of sensing dark side energy. He'd let Yoda know if there's some dark side **** going on right then and there if even Yoda wasn't capable of sensing it.
4. If her lifeforce was really drained into Vader, I'm almost 100% positive Vader would probably be aware that she's dying/dead.
5. This is George Lucas we're talking about. There's no way in hell he would put that much thought into it, and if he did, he would make damn sure people knew that.
Another thing to note, Padme was rescued before Anakin was by The Emperor. Palpatine probably had no idea where she was. And if he knew, and was capable of draining her lifeforce when she's like several planets away (Polis Massa and Coruscant aren't particularly close you know?) I'm pretty sure he would just go ahead and kill her before she even gives birth to Leia and Luke. Hell, he'd probably kill Leia and Luke right then and there because he's a very evil dick.
1. It's just a fan theory.
2. It's just speculation. Never has been confirmed.
3. Droids can't sense the force. Okay, well Obi-Wan is right there. Pretty sure he can sense the dark side. And if he can't then there's Yoda right there with him. Yoda. Very strong with the force he is. Infact, he just got done meditating with Qui-Gon Jinn. Someone who is one with the force and is most likely very capable of sensing dark side energy. He'd let Yoda know if there's some dark side **** going on right then and there if even Yoda wasn't capable of sensing it.
4. If her lifeforce was really drained into Vader, I'm almost 100% positive Vader would probably be aware that she's dying/dead.
5. This is George Lucas we're talking about. There's no way in hell he would put that much thought into it, and if he did, he would make damn sure people knew that.
Another thing to note, Padme was rescued before Anakin was by The Emperor. Palpatine probably had no idea where she was. And if he knew, and was capable of draining her lifeforce when she's like several planets away (Polis Massa and Coruscant aren't particularly close you know?) I'm pretty sure he would just go ahead and kill her before she even gives birth to Leia and Luke. Hell, he'd probably kill Leia and Luke right then and there because he's a very evil dick.
#172 to #170
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joekerr (12/28/2015) [-] 1=2 -> Repeating myself: Rewatch.
3. I replied to you and the very same argument below. >>#147, There's no such thing like sith detection.
4. Same as 1,2: Anakin/Vader said he stopped feeling her (I can't quote exactly 'cause my memory isn't photographic). So you know, if there's no lifeforce anymore, you can't feel it. You do so before though. Fits rather neatly.
5. Exactly. George Lucas. That guy doesn't explain everything.
I'm not well into Star Wars anymore, but there's those components to it, like life and stuff. Moving A to B if you know A and B shouldn't require more. Palpatine obviously didn't know about her location, indeed, and even less about the children. That's the beautiful reason for his failure in the end. He was a mighty cunt, but not a omnipotent one.
3. I replied to you and the very same argument below. >>#147, There's no such thing like sith detection.
4. Same as 1,2: Anakin/Vader said he stopped feeling her (I can't quote exactly 'cause my memory isn't photographic). So you know, if there's no lifeforce anymore, you can't feel it. You do so before though. Fits rather neatly.
5. Exactly. George Lucas. That guy doesn't explain everything.
I'm not well into Star Wars anymore, but there's those components to it, like life and stuff. Moving A to B if you know A and B shouldn't require more. Palpatine obviously didn't know about her location, indeed, and even less about the children. That's the beautiful reason for his failure in the end. He was a mighty cunt, but not a omnipotent one.
#174 to #172
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basichaharemix (12/28/2015) [-] There is such things as something called sith detection. Look up the dark side cave on Dagobah. The thing was crawling with sith energy and evil juju. So much so that it causes anyone who goes near it to face apparitions or hallucinate things. Take Luke going in there and fighting Vader. The whole reason why Yoda decides to live right near the thing is because he knew that Palpatine probably wouldn't be to interested in checking it out if it's dark side energy. It kept Yoda's force sensitivity low and he was capable of remaining hidden.
People with the force can detect anyone who uses the force or is force sensitive, whether they are Jedi or Sith. Meaning that they can definitely sense when there is force energy being used.
I really do not think Lucas thought that deep into killing Padme and creating Vader. By the end of Episode 3 he just had to make sure Luke and Leia are born somehow, Anakin becomes Vader, Yoda goes to Dagobah, Obi-Wan has tabs on Luke, and Leia gets to Alderaan.
People with the force can detect anyone who uses the force or is force sensitive, whether they are Jedi or Sith. Meaning that they can definitely sense when there is force energy being used.
I really do not think Lucas thought that deep into killing Padme and creating Vader. By the end of Episode 3 he just had to make sure Luke and Leia are born somehow, Anakin becomes Vader, Yoda goes to Dagobah, Obi-Wan has tabs on Luke, and Leia gets to Alderaan.
#178 to #175
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stifflimb (12/28/2015) [-] But if she was siphoned right in front of him he would have sensed something, both Obi Wan being right at her side and Anakin who recieved the force and himself had accepted the Dark side into him, evidence look at his eyes before he kills the younglings.
It's a cool theory but that's all it's. If the emperor could kill anyone as he pleased just to give life force to someone else without even knowing where they are or anything, then that power would have played a bigger part later on and killed of Yoda and Obi Wan much earlier.
I could potentionally see him siphon some of his own energy into Vader, binding them closer and giving him power over Vader as he's in a weakened state to make sure Vader would never betray him now that she's gone and the reason to be loyal to him with it.
It's a cool theory but that's all it's. If the emperor could kill anyone as he pleased just to give life force to someone else without even knowing where they are or anything, then that power would have played a bigger part later on and killed of Yoda and Obi Wan much earlier.
I could potentionally see him siphon some of his own energy into Vader, binding them closer and giving him power over Vader as he's in a weakened state to make sure Vader would never betray him now that she's gone and the reason to be loyal to him with it.
#185 to #180
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joekerr (12/28/2015) [-] Dear, it's shortly after 3 in the morning here (Eurofag) and I'm not willing to invest much more time on making a qualitative argument on this kind of unimportant arbitrary subject (fictional story; politics, humanity, I wouldn't mind) much more right now. This (>>#179,) is a tl;dr of what I had written if I had reasoned in a larger way ... srsly, if you find it bs, do so, but don't denounce a cheap one liner with another one :'D That's still cheap.
I absolutely don't see why this (still >>#179,), the necessity of a connection between two - which is also via force (sorry for not being able to formulate better, my English isn't as great as I'd like it to be), nothing new and nothing uncomfirmed [e. g. Luke/Leia end of SW V or in SW VII with SPOILER Han and Leia; you could easily call that a disturbance in the force for Leia ] - wouldn't explain why Sidious couldn't go on a vampiric rampage.
I absolutely don't see why this (still >>#179,), the necessity of a connection between two - which is also via force (sorry for not being able to formulate better, my English isn't as great as I'd like it to be), nothing new and nothing uncomfirmed [e. g. Luke/Leia end of SW V or in SW VII with SPOILER Han and Leia; you could easily call that a disturbance in the force for Leia ] - wouldn't explain why Sidious couldn't go on a vampiric rampage.
#188 to #185
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stifflimb (12/28/2015) [-] Dear it's 3:43 here, Eurofag or no fag.
You say an emotional connection is enough to for a third person to drag out the life force of a person while it would not be enough for 1 of the people involved to know if the other is alive or dead, that's some big time bs.
Also the only contact you see the Emperor have with Anakin is putting his hand briefly on his head as they found him almost dead, then no contact until after he's in the suit and stabile, so no I saw nothing of what you're talking about going back to see.
You say an emotional connection is enough to for a third person to drag out the life force of a person while it would not be enough for 1 of the people involved to know if the other is alive or dead, that's some big time bs.
Also the only contact you see the Emperor have with Anakin is putting his hand briefly on his head as they found him almost dead, then no contact until after he's in the suit and stabile, so no I saw nothing of what you're talking about going back to see.
#105 to #89
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dakkadakka (12/27/2015) [-]
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
In trying to avoid Padmé's death he caused it
Just like Horus in 40k, he causes the events he's trying to stop.
In trying to avoid Padmé's death he caused it
Just like Horus in 40k, he causes the events he's trying to stop.
#171 to #169
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basichaharemix (12/28/2015) [-] And that was exactly what I was referencing, glad someone caught it.
#96 to #89
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sephirothpwnz ONLINE (12/27/2015) [-] it is most likely that palpatine used a sith technique to use leia's liforce as a method to keep vader alive. so palpatine is correct to say "in your anger you killed her"
#93 to #89
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svensname (12/27/2015) [-] someone actually had a theory on that. vaders surgery and padmes birth happen at nearly the same time, and to keep vader from dying (and keep him firmly rooted in the dark side) the emperor was funneling padmes life force into him.
at one point he stated that there was a sith that could stop people from dying if he wanted to, and that his student killed him after learning all his secrets. that student was palpatine.
not only that the robots said something closer to "shes stable, but for some reason we cant explain we are losing her" robots cant understand the force and wouldnt recognize it as that, plus padme didnt look like someone who had lost the will to live, she looked like she was fighting for her life.
and the emperor used her death to kill any traces of good left inside vader.
at one point he stated that there was a sith that could stop people from dying if he wanted to, and that his student killed him after learning all his secrets. that student was palpatine.
not only that the robots said something closer to "shes stable, but for some reason we cant explain we are losing her" robots cant understand the force and wouldnt recognize it as that, plus padme didnt look like someone who had lost the will to live, she looked like she was fighting for her life.
and the emperor used her death to kill any traces of good left inside vader.
#99 to #93
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basichaharemix (12/27/2015) [-] Robots can't sense the force, but I'd assume Obi-Wan definitely can. So that kinda blows that theory out of the water especially since Obi-Wan was present during that surgery, he would've been able to sense some type of Sith presence.
But I do agree that Palpatine just told Vader that Padme was dead so that he would no longer have ties to good.
Bottomline, I think we can all agree that the whole "stable but lost the will to live" thing was stupid and they could've came up with a better way of her dying than that. Really could've said something along the lines of "she's gone through so much stress prior to the births, that her giving birth will unfortunately kill her". Not the best, but better than what we got.
But I do agree that Palpatine just told Vader that Padme was dead so that he would no longer have ties to good.
Bottomline, I think we can all agree that the whole "stable but lost the will to live" thing was stupid and they could've came up with a better way of her dying than that. Really could've said something along the lines of "she's gone through so much stress prior to the births, that her giving birth will unfortunately kill her". Not the best, but better than what we got.
#103 to #100
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basichaharemix (12/27/2015) [-] Like I said, not the best, but better than her just dying because she didn't want to live anymore despite them having all that medical technology.
Could've been something like the damages she received are force related and there's not much that can be done about that or something. Still has it's flaws, but I'd take that over "Yeah we saved her, but the bitch doesn't want to live anymore soooo.....yeah can't help her."
Video related: youtu.be/eAKtZ_r0V6E?t=35s
Could've been something like the damages she received are force related and there's not much that can be done about that or something. Still has it's flaws, but I'd take that over "Yeah we saved her, but the bitch doesn't want to live anymore soooo.....yeah can't help her."
Video related: youtu.be/eAKtZ_r0V6E?t=35s
#111 to #103
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Nekatroz (12/27/2015) [-] I dont remember where I read this, but there is a theory (actually, an addition of extra info) that says that Padme's crushed throat was undetected by the robots, because they only specialized in, well, helping in giving birth, and human anatomy was, largely, foreign to them.
#122 to #99
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severepwner (12/27/2015) [-] Even then there are way too many examples of force users not sensing things they should have sensed, including in the originals. I think we can just assume that that was one of those times for both Yoda and Obi-wan.
#148 to #93
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tkfourtwoone ONLINE (12/27/2015) [-] I swear you people come up with some of the most retarded & idiotic explanations known to man...
Dude, it was BADLY WRITTEN. Stop trying to whitewash a turd, it will forever be a turd.
Dude, it was BADLY WRITTEN. Stop trying to whitewash a turd, it will forever be a turd.
#57 to #39
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sphincterface (12/27/2015) [-] For some reason I always think this is cute as hell. Happy Vader makes me happy.
#118
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imashitbricks (12/27/2015) [-] I've said it before: Vader wasn't actually evil.
He just wanted (as cliche as this sounds) to be loved. The only reason he turned to the dark side was to save Padme and honestly, he probably wouldn't have turned if the Jedi Council hadn't consistently **** on him. Palpatine just had to say a few caring and encouraging words and he hopped right over.
Then in Episode VI he kills Palpatine and sacrifices himself to save Luke. Honestly he was just misunderstood. With the proper guidance and treatment it all could of been avoided. Yoda and the rest of the Jedi Council were just as responsible for the creation of Vader as Palpatine was.
He just wanted (as cliche as this sounds) to be loved. The only reason he turned to the dark side was to save Padme and honestly, he probably wouldn't have turned if the Jedi Council hadn't consistently **** on him. Palpatine just had to say a few caring and encouraging words and he hopped right over.
Then in Episode VI he kills Palpatine and sacrifices himself to save Luke. Honestly he was just misunderstood. With the proper guidance and treatment it all could of been avoided. Yoda and the rest of the Jedi Council were just as responsible for the creation of Vader as Palpatine was.
#139 to #118
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tomthehippie (12/27/2015) [-]
part of it is the flaw in the Jedi code. The Jedi code demands rejection of emotion, Luke shows that it is acceptance of emotion that leads to the control needed to reject the darkside.
#176 to #139
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schneidend (12/28/2015) [-] It depends on the era. Ideally, Jedi will preach controlling your emotions so you make decisions based on logic and the guidance of the Force. See Qui-Gon Jinn and the way the overly-conservative Jedi Council of the prequel era were always butting heads with him. Qui-Gon saw Anakin's potential, and the Force told him the boy needed to be a part of greater events. Qui-Gon was wrong about who would be the chosen one, but he was right to bring Anakin along so the chosen one, Luke, could be born.
#206 to #176
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tomthehippie (12/28/2015) [-]
Yes, but Qui-Gon was not code compliant. Technically he was a Grey Jedi, not a full lightsider.
#212 to #206
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schneidend (12/28/2015) [-] Qui-Gon only butted heads with the Council. He didn't really violate the Jedi code. You have to be a bit more radical/heretical/controversial to actually be a proper Gray Jedi.
#167 to #118
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Sethorein ONLINE (12/28/2015) [-] Dude had serious emotional disorders. Whether you want to say he suffered from intermittent explosive disorder, Bipolar, or some form of comorbid ADHD-emotional disorder as yet unidentified... the dude couldn't regulate his emotions. It's not that he needed love. Obi-Wan loved him as a brother, Padme was a source of unconditional love, if you look at the clone wars his padawan looked up to him... he was a hero to the republic. There was no shortage of love. What he needed was absolute control all the time. Otherwise his dis-regulated fear would take over, then his dis-regulated anger.
Even in good times you found him routinely acting out just to frustrate Obi Wan (episode 2). These episodes of recklessness and perceived immortality amidst a euphoric demeanor indicate a manic personality.
He should never have become a Jedi. With emotions as intense as his, he was destined for failure.
Even in good times you found him routinely acting out just to frustrate Obi Wan (episode 2). These episodes of recklessness and perceived immortality amidst a euphoric demeanor indicate a manic personality.
He should never have become a Jedi. With emotions as intense as his, he was destined for failure.
#177 to #118
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schneidend (12/28/2015) [-] Nah, dawg. Killing kids because they might grow up and try to kill you because you killed all of their teachers and caretakers is straight up evil.
#145 to #118
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tkfourtwoone ONLINE (12/27/2015) [-] The dude is ******* psychotic, just drop trying to justify him
#204 to #156
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tkfourtwoone ONLINE (12/28/2015) [-] Look at my goddamn username
If you'd had any brains, you'd realize I know quite a bit about SW lore
If you'd had any brains, you'd realize I know quite a bit about SW lore
#123 to #118
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severepwner (12/27/2015) [-] Vader wasn't evil, as much as he was selfish, let me finish.
In episode 3 he has no loyalty to any side, he lost his loyalty to the jedi, and has never been loyal to the dark side anyway. He only cares about himself and the family he created. Which is made evident as he sets his own rules after getting away from the jedi, and has always dreamed of overthrowing the Emperor, so he and his family could shape the galaxy as they saw fit.
No one has ever seen a man that lived for his family as evil.
In episode 3 he has no loyalty to any side, he lost his loyalty to the jedi, and has never been loyal to the dark side anyway. He only cares about himself and the family he created. Which is made evident as he sets his own rules after getting away from the jedi, and has always dreamed of overthrowing the Emperor, so he and his family could shape the galaxy as they saw fit.
No one has ever seen a man that lived for his family as evil.
#140 to #123
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senorfrog (12/27/2015) [-] You know the biggest problem, Yoda and Ben knew all along about anakin and padme but never did **** about it till he converted to the darkside. They just saw it, knew something was up, but just tossed it under the rug and ignored it. The 2 master jedi's become the laziest bastards in the universe from episode 3 and on.
#87 to #1
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optimuscrimetime (12/27/2015) [-]
New Darth Vader series coming from Marvel. I want to say this moment happens in issue #6 but I'm not sure. For the most part, all of the new Marvel Star Wars comics are good and I would recommend them if you're interested in reading some cool Star Wars stuff.
#8 to #1
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aproudpatriot (12/27/2015) [-] My bad, google image search screwed with me. This is the real source
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Darth_Vader_Book_I:_Vader
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Darth_Vader_Book_I:_Vader
#40
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ironbeak (12/27/2015) [-] I liked the prequels. I always like it when they establish mythologies. I also like how the movies are independent from comic books and other medias.
