The definition of Pre-orders
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#1
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otakuweaboo (06/23/2015) [-] 
i don't know how else are we to keep pushing this forth to people to stop pre-ordering.
i passed it on, yet they still pre-order.
i passed it on, yet they still pre-order.
#301 to #1
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elcreepo ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] Preordering is the reason why most finished games- especially from EA- are not actually finished. In fact, it is a constant stream of fixing glitches that should have been caught and fixed in beta stage. Not only that, but also DLC which should have been in the original game to ******* start with. But EA knows. EA knows the money is in making the same version of a game over and over and over again, with "fixes" each time and DLC which doesn't just add to gameplay- it makes it far better.
Sims 3 was both the best and worst purchase I've ever made. Best, because it's a fun ass game. But it was also the worst because not only have I had to shell out extra to get things like pets, seasons, extra furniture that is far better then the skimpy pickings that is included in the furniture, and awesome stuff like werewolf sims, but there are also quite a few game issues that have been present since SIMS ******* 1. And I know, you can argue that the DLC is just that- enhancing the game. But the original sims 3 has maybe six options at most for each style of furniture. More furniture comes by adding DLC features. But wait, there's more! EA has also realized that they can make money off of DLC that is literally just items for your sim's house. And I'm not just talking the stuff packs, which cost a pretty penny but add a ******* more to your game. I'm talking the whole ******* sims store where you can get exclusive and/or user created items. It's cool, but expensive as hell- and you're only unlocking the right to use the exclusive stuff. You have to sit there and play the game for hours at a time to earn the money and right to actually USE the exclusive DLC in the content.
I'm already paying money for the exclusive content, why do I have to play to unlock it? It used to be that paying even ten dollars to a game to add content would add a whole crapton of features. I can go on most free games, pay ten bucks, and have my characters live the life of luxury, even today. But even all the money grubbing DLC I could forgive. I'm young, I have expendable income. Hell, Facebook games do it for far less rewards and use many more scam tactics such as making it nearly impossible to play the game without "cheating" using money. And EA isn't really taking too much away from the original game considering how sims 1 didn't have much either.
But there's no autosave. None. Three ******* games, and no autosave. The game sometimes glitches out and crashes, erasing your work. Occasionally your sim will have seizures or freeze up. Objects can't fit in areas that in real life they should have no problem fitting in. There have been three games, a spin off game, and countless DLC and content packs. And none of the devs have had the goddam sense to make it much more realistic than sims 1. Oooh wow I can own a town, wow I can have babies. The items and design process itself are probably a good 60% of what makes games fun. Finally, there's no way to control ONE character's free will. I have a family of five sims, two of which are unplanned toddler sims. I don't have time to be telling the oldest child to be doing his homework, or the dad to go to work. But if I put them all on free will, I have children trying to start fires with microwaves and a mom who, if I let stand still for one second, will leave the children alone and screaming.
Sorry to go on a rant, but Sims 3 is aggravating the hell out of me.
Sims 3 was both the best and worst purchase I've ever made. Best, because it's a fun ass game. But it was also the worst because not only have I had to shell out extra to get things like pets, seasons, extra furniture that is far better then the skimpy pickings that is included in the furniture, and awesome stuff like werewolf sims, but there are also quite a few game issues that have been present since SIMS ******* 1. And I know, you can argue that the DLC is just that- enhancing the game. But the original sims 3 has maybe six options at most for each style of furniture. More furniture comes by adding DLC features. But wait, there's more! EA has also realized that they can make money off of DLC that is literally just items for your sim's house. And I'm not just talking the stuff packs, which cost a pretty penny but add a ******* more to your game. I'm talking the whole ******* sims store where you can get exclusive and/or user created items. It's cool, but expensive as hell- and you're only unlocking the right to use the exclusive stuff. You have to sit there and play the game for hours at a time to earn the money and right to actually USE the exclusive DLC in the content.
I'm already paying money for the exclusive content, why do I have to play to unlock it? It used to be that paying even ten dollars to a game to add content would add a whole crapton of features. I can go on most free games, pay ten bucks, and have my characters live the life of luxury, even today. But even all the money grubbing DLC I could forgive. I'm young, I have expendable income. Hell, Facebook games do it for far less rewards and use many more scam tactics such as making it nearly impossible to play the game without "cheating" using money. And EA isn't really taking too much away from the original game considering how sims 1 didn't have much either.
But there's no autosave. None. Three ******* games, and no autosave. The game sometimes glitches out and crashes, erasing your work. Occasionally your sim will have seizures or freeze up. Objects can't fit in areas that in real life they should have no problem fitting in. There have been three games, a spin off game, and countless DLC and content packs. And none of the devs have had the goddam sense to make it much more realistic than sims 1. Oooh wow I can own a town, wow I can have babies. The items and design process itself are probably a good 60% of what makes games fun. Finally, there's no way to control ONE character's free will. I have a family of five sims, two of which are unplanned toddler sims. I don't have time to be telling the oldest child to be doing his homework, or the dad to go to work. But if I put them all on free will, I have children trying to start fires with microwaves and a mom who, if I let stand still for one second, will leave the children alone and screaming.
Sorry to go on a rant, but Sims 3 is aggravating the hell out of me.
#217 to #1
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bann (06/24/2015) [-]
Even a game that's meh, I'm probably going to get 100+ hours out of it. At $60, 60 cents an hour is a really good deal for that. I'll pre order it and make out pretty good regardless.
Do I sometimes spend $.50 and get hundreds of hours out of it like Dino D-Day? Sometimes I do.
Do I sometimes spend $.50 and get hundreds of hours out of it like Dino D-Day? Sometimes I do.
#245 to #1
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therealyou (06/24/2015) [-]
Maybe you can explain to me why pre-ordering is bad? At least how I always thought it works is I am basically telling the company to reserve my copy of a game. I am not paying in full, but paying for them to take up a spot on their truck and supply me the game. I pay 5 dollars or 10 to reserve the game. I can even pay in full for the game if I want, if something comes up in this time I can always cancel and get my money back, or I can even hold onto the game unopened and wait for the reviews to come in the next week, and return it if I dislike it?
#258 to #1
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myjunk (06/24/2015) [-]
If less people pre-order, publishers will try to push it harder.
They will promise more bonus content, skins, advantages, things that you won't get when you buy it regularly in order to incite pre-orders.
Pre-orders and backer exclusive stuff from crowdfunding already created a gamer community divided by classes.
"Regular" buyers are second class gamers
They will promise more bonus content, skins, advantages, things that you won't get when you buy it regularly in order to incite pre-orders.
Pre-orders and backer exclusive stuff from crowdfunding already created a gamer community divided by classes.
"Regular" buyers are second class gamers
#220 to #1
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legodude (06/24/2015) [-] because the very few games that I really want on release and will buy no matter what (Like fallout 4 or addons to games I already play like the latest addon to final fantasy 14 online) I hate people trying to tell me what I can and can't buy, plus the amount of reviews that I disagree with is really high, games that have gotten great reviews I've hated and games that have been given **** reviews I love.
#289 to #220
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alexithymic (06/24/2015) [-] then don't rely on reviews. just buy the game when it comes out rather than preordering. The point isn't buying something you don't like, it's making sure they aren't paid before they're finished.
At least that's how I've seen it, I could be wrong and have missed the point entirely in which case **** me right
At least that's how I've seen it, I could be wrong and have missed the point entirely in which case **** me right
#303 to #300
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alexithymic (06/25/2015) [-] that too. I usually just day one purchase things along that catagory. I have yet to see an offer that makes me want to preorder specifically
#192 to #1
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pastmemories (06/24/2015) [-] Well, the games I pre order are the games I plan on buying at launch anyways, just in case somehow the store runs out of copies, mine will be reserved. I don't buy the game, I just put down $5 dollars. If no one buys at release, then how will anyone know if the game is broken?
#216 to #110
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
Let's skip pass the ******** and straight to the motha ****** facts. Fallout 4 is going to be good. No doubt about that. Pre ordering it or not it's not going to change **** . BUT, it's telling other publishers that yes, people will buy nothing but promises. How ******* stupid is that, really? Is it so ******* hard to wait for the game to be published and then pay? Are you so ******* bad with your money that you can't keep 60 bucks on the side until the game is published? Is it so ******* important to have that low tier "just for the nostalgia" weapon/armour they always **** out as "preorder bonus"? Are you telling me that you are giving away your money without any real contracted obligation for them to refund you or give you what they said they would give you? Seriously, no matter how hyped, no matter how reputable the publisher is or how much of a fanboy you are, you don't go around buying promises.
#47 to #1
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
Well people are idiots.
Asscreed Unity was still broken when yourpeesoft anounced the next asscreed and it was immediatly up for prepurchase.
Did the consumer punish yourpeesoft for delivering a broken game? Nop, that new asscreed was top of the charts as a ******* preorder.
Asscreed Unity was still broken when yourpeesoft anounced the next asscreed and it was immediatly up for prepurchase.
Did the consumer punish yourpeesoft for delivering a broken game? Nop, that new asscreed was top of the charts as a ******* preorder.
#70 to #49
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redninjaa (06/24/2015) [-] yes, a piece of plastic your going to use once, put it back in the box, and place it on your shelf. It would be better to wait till someone makes a chinese bootleg that looks near the same for much cheaper. BUT MUH PRE ORDER EXCLUSIVE.
Im not ******** on fallout 4, but I've learned not to buy any game that isnt released 100 percent. No matter how good the trailer seems to be, and as we have learned before, trailers lie.
Im not ******** on fallout 4, but I've learned not to buy any game that isnt released 100 percent. No matter how good the trailer seems to be, and as we have learned before, trailers lie.
#88 to #49
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
The only time a pre-order would be particularly worth is something like Bioshock Infinite's. Where you got both the original Bioshock and the relatively new XCOM: Enemy Unknown game. Both of which are absolutely fantastic and can totally pick up the slack of Infinite. Which is a good thing because Infinite for a Bioshock game ended up being lame anyways.
Pre-orders should benefit you with a discount or other items. It's a matter of trust that the companies is asking, and so they should give you something to create an incentive to make a leap of faith. Things like the Pip-Boy doesn't do that, so no, it's not a good pre-order bonus seeing as you pay an additional $60 for it.
Pre-orders should benefit you with a discount or other items. It's a matter of trust that the companies is asking, and so they should give you something to create an incentive to make a leap of faith. Things like the Pip-Boy doesn't do that, so no, it's not a good pre-order bonus seeing as you pay an additional $60 for it.
#39 to #1
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
It really does humor me how often people will go "I will never pre-order a game again because I or someone I know has been burned". Then they go out and pre-order games like Fallout 4, Arkham Knight, Grand Theft Auto 5, The Witcher 3, etc.
Yes, not all pre-orders are bad. But it's a matter of principle that apparently no one can hold to and then they wonder why we can't have nice things.
Yes, not all pre-orders are bad. But it's a matter of principle that apparently no one can hold to and then they wonder why we can't have nice things.
#6
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mendelevium ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] Pre-ordering a game from a reputable company with plenty of good history like Bethesda is not the same ******* thing as buying a alpha indie game from a dev who had to crowd fund to get his first ******* computer.
Stop ******** on people for pre-ordering a game from good companies who release actual quality.
Or better yet stop ******** on everyone.
How in the **** does it affect you that some 12 year old bought some ****** indie game no one knows about.
Good companies will continue with quality content. Bad ones will sink and fall and you just don't have to buy there games. And new companies will come up and thrive by avoiding the mistakes the old companies made.
This is called capitalism. We know buying from reputable companies bad, let others find out for themselves instead of trying to force **** them with **** they don't care about.
Stop ******** on people for pre-ordering a game from good companies who release actual quality.
Or better yet stop ******** on everyone.
How in the **** does it affect you that some 12 year old bought some ****** indie game no one knows about.
Good companies will continue with quality content. Bad ones will sink and fall and you just don't have to buy there games. And new companies will come up and thrive by avoiding the mistakes the old companies made.
This is called capitalism. We know buying from reputable companies bad, let others find out for themselves instead of trying to force **** them with **** they don't care about.
#12 to #6
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compilations (06/24/2015) [-] Bethesda has plenty of bad history. Specifically with fallout too. Remember the loading times of New Vegas? How about the animation bugs of 3?
#330 to #318
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oceanfrank ONLINE (06/25/2015) [-] skyrim didnt take long to fix it nor did they rush an unfinished game. Skyrim had very little performance issues where UNity would see sudden frame dips that would be as low as 10 fps. Unity also had microtransactions to make their game event that much more desperate AND overall it was just done badly.
#332 to #330
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hydraetis (06/25/2015) [-] Except I played through Unity this year and not once did I find it necessary to do any of the microtransactional **** . The game is 100% playable without it, and I didn't feel like I was doing any overtime amount of grinding in order to get what I wanted.
Also, I'd argue that Skyrim was in fact unfinished, for the points made in >>#114. And considering the Markarth quest bug was never fixed on PS3 by the time I had finished the whole game and stopped playing (got it some time after it had been released and played for a few months), I'd say that it definitely was not a short time for them to fix everything.
Plus there are some things that just cannot be fixed, like their god awful physics engine and other limitations imposed by their engine.
Also, I'd argue that Skyrim was in fact unfinished, for the points made in >>#114. And considering the Markarth quest bug was never fixed on PS3 by the time I had finished the whole game and stopped playing (got it some time after it had been released and played for a few months), I'd say that it definitely was not a short time for them to fix everything.
Plus there are some things that just cannot be fixed, like their god awful physics engine and other limitations imposed by their engine.
#334 to #332
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oceanfrank ONLINE (06/26/2015) [-] Yeah you didnt need it but jesus was it something necessary? Like instead of rushing out a game where I dont see rooster teeth everywhere they decide to focus on microtransactions?
#7 to #6
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oharo (06/24/2015) [-] It isn't only in reference to crap indie games. The Early Access program has it's own ire associated with that ******** - a famous example being DayZ. It also refers, if not primarily refers to, to AAA titles like Assassin's Creed, Halo, Call of Duty, etc. They advertise the game like crazy to get as many preorders as possible that way they have guaranteed sales in case the game tanks. Plus for a while there was a lot of "preorder now and get this exclusive in-game item and mission" ******** going on for while which people hated.
However, Bethesda have never created a bad game in recent memory and are extremely trustworthy so far. So preordering Fallout 4 is acceptable to a lot of people, especially with all of the in-game footage; not just promises and a cinematic trailer.
However, Bethesda have never created a bad game in recent memory and are extremely trustworthy so far. So preordering Fallout 4 is acceptable to a lot of people, especially with all of the in-game footage; not just promises and a cinematic trailer.
#260 to #123
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slayzo ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] Take notice of how no one will debate you on that point, because they know they're just as bad for preordering fallout 4, when every ******* Bethesda game is released with either a ton of bugs, or a few bugs that make the game unplayable day 1.
But it's OK when they do it, because it's fallout 4, not an indie game, and the label makes the difference, right?
But it's OK when they do it, because it's fallout 4, not an indie game, and the label makes the difference, right?
#276 to #123
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iguanasandicecream (06/24/2015) [-] well if no one buys the game then how will we know there is bugs or it is incomplete if no one is there to lay the games and find out?
#287 to #123
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oharo (06/24/2015) [-] Yeah, that's fine if you want to say they're poorly coded, no one cares. Because the fact of the matter is the Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 3 are all amazing games and Fallout 4 will almost surely be amazing as well.
That's really all preordering comes down to: do you trust the game company to not make this one ****** ? For Bethesda (specifically Bethesda Game Studios), many, many people would say yes.
That's really all preordering comes down to: do you trust the game company to not make this one ****** ? For Bethesda (specifically Bethesda Game Studios), many, many people would say yes.
#322 to #287
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hydraetis (06/25/2015) [-] Nah. Skyrim was full of lorebits, yes, but almost everything else about it is sub-par at best.
- Combat is as shallow as a puddle
- Majority of quests consist of going into dungeon X and killing draugr
- Lame animation
- Hellish optimization area with lush, long grass in Far Cry 3 = 50fps. area modded (because none exist in vanilla) to have lush, long grass in Skyrim = 15fps
- While exteriors can be made to look great, the engine really ***** up what you can do with interiors thanks to the lighting limitations max. 4 lighting sources on an object = strobe lights when inside of an inn using modded lighting, due to flickering
- Further on the engine problems, having Vsync disabled and going too far over 60fps causes the physics to go absolutely haywire though they're already shady, considering you can kill yourself by jumping on a wooden cart or the remains of a skeleton
Since it is a Fallout, I can accept that the game will probably be decent. But if you ask me, Bethesda is getting far too comfortable and is being hailed far too much by the community.
- Combat is as shallow as a puddle
- Majority of quests consist of going into dungeon X and killing draugr
- Lame animation
- Hellish optimization area with lush, long grass in Far Cry 3 = 50fps. area modded (because none exist in vanilla) to have lush, long grass in Skyrim = 15fps
- While exteriors can be made to look great, the engine really ***** up what you can do with interiors thanks to the lighting limitations max. 4 lighting sources on an object = strobe lights when inside of an inn using modded lighting, due to flickering
- Further on the engine problems, having Vsync disabled and going too far over 60fps causes the physics to go absolutely haywire though they're already shady, considering you can kill yourself by jumping on a wooden cart or the remains of a skeleton
Since it is a Fallout, I can accept that the game will probably be decent. But if you ask me, Bethesda is getting far too comfortable and is being hailed far too much by the community.
#248 to #7
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vvthegreats (06/24/2015) [-]
There is a reason why they are AAA titles to begin with. For instance, pre-ordering was already a thing for CoD and Halo I am still a fan of Halo, much different story for CoD because they were reliable in the first place; but they have gotten less reputable BUT still good nonetheless. OH WAIT but everyone is cockriding Bethesda for making Fallout while suddenly having amnesia about how many bugs and other glitches there were in Fallout 2 and 3.
#100 to #6
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wimwam ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] "How does it affect you"
The market drives the games. People buy, they make more of the same. People don't buy- they stop making those games.
EA knows it can get away with day 1 DLC, unfinished games, and forcing deadlines, because hey- if you could make millions doing it, who cares how ****** the game is? I could list a dozen quality game companies that used to make amazing games that got swallowed up by larger companies like EA and then never published a good game again. Again, all because the consumers enabled it to happen.
The market drives the games. People buy, they make more of the same. People don't buy- they stop making those games.
EA knows it can get away with day 1 DLC, unfinished games, and forcing deadlines, because hey- if you could make millions doing it, who cares how ****** the game is? I could list a dozen quality game companies that used to make amazing games that got swallowed up by larger companies like EA and then never published a good game again. Again, all because the consumers enabled it to happen.
#107 to #6
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wotterpatch (06/24/2015) [-] But it is though.
Bethesda has a reputation for games being broken at launch, what incentive will they have to fix it if they've made millions of dollars before they've even launched?
Bethesda has a reputation for games being broken at launch, what incentive will they have to fix it if they've made millions of dollars before they've even launched?
#104 to #6
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retardedboss ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] Because you're not buying they're reputation, you're buying a game. Ubisoft used to have a good reputation, some people probably thought that when they pre-ordered unity. The point is that no matter the company, no mater the game, if you give someone money before you get the product you don't REALLY know what you're buying. Sure Bethesda is PROBABLY a safe bet. But there is literally NO need to take that risk. With digital downloads being so readily available there is no reason to pre-order.
You are literally saying "I'm willing to bet $60 that this game is good before it even is finished" instead of just waiting till its done to see whether it's worth the money or not. Why take the risk however small it may be?
You are literally saying "I'm willing to bet $60 that this game is good before it even is finished" instead of just waiting till its done to see whether it's worth the money or not. Why take the risk however small it may be?
#148 to #105
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galacticpumpkin (06/24/2015) [-]
Well with Steam's new return implement, if the game is **** and you don't play it for more than two hours, you can return it.
They made it to where even if you preorder the game, the timer only starts when you start playing it.
In other words, if Fallout 4 turns out to be as buggy as FO3 on release, a mass influx of returns will shock Bethesda so bad they will have to fix the game.
I hope this works for all games.
On console however, this could prove to be much more difficult.
They made it to where even if you preorder the game, the timer only starts when you start playing it.
In other words, if Fallout 4 turns out to be as buggy as FO3 on release, a mass influx of returns will shock Bethesda so bad they will have to fix the game.
I hope this works for all games.
On console however, this could prove to be much more difficult.
#296 to #290
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galacticpumpkin (06/24/2015) [-]
I am talking just the beginning. Play for a bit and you will be able to find out if it is largely buggy.
#34 to #6
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
People **** on other people who pre-order, because nobody lives in a bubble. People's purchasing decisions ultimately affect the industry as a whole for better or worse.
12 year olds buying a ****** indie game that no-one cares about is a problem because it encourages more people to make ****** indie games for a quick buck, building them up with huge promises to rake in the cash, and half-assing the rest of the game since they've already got your money. Something that floods the market and drowns out the glimmers of potential that are actually there.
People forking over cash for games that aren't tested or proven in any way just guarantees that the company's going to turn a profit no matter the game's actual quality. It shifts the focus for the businessmen actually running these companies away from creating a solid game, and puts the focus instead on marketing, and building hype.
Not every game company making use of pre-orders is doing it for that reason, obviously. But the game industry is run by businessmen as much as any other industry. Business men who see successful business trends are going to follow them, and try to exploit them, it's just what they do. One good company doing it could easily spawn another ten bad companies doing it, too.
You call this capitalism but I'd argue that this is a system that stifles it. It offers a way for bad companies to survive, not on the merits of their product or service, but on how well they can make that product look before it's even on the shelf.
12 year olds buying a ****** indie game that no-one cares about is a problem because it encourages more people to make ****** indie games for a quick buck, building them up with huge promises to rake in the cash, and half-assing the rest of the game since they've already got your money. Something that floods the market and drowns out the glimmers of potential that are actually there.
People forking over cash for games that aren't tested or proven in any way just guarantees that the company's going to turn a profit no matter the game's actual quality. It shifts the focus for the businessmen actually running these companies away from creating a solid game, and puts the focus instead on marketing, and building hype.
Not every game company making use of pre-orders is doing it for that reason, obviously. But the game industry is run by businessmen as much as any other industry. Business men who see successful business trends are going to follow them, and try to exploit them, it's just what they do. One good company doing it could easily spawn another ten bad companies doing it, too.
You call this capitalism but I'd argue that this is a system that stifles it. It offers a way for bad companies to survive, not on the merits of their product or service, but on how well they can make that product look before it's even on the shelf.
#137 to #6
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saintlich ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-]
Flaws in your post
1-Bethseda release buggy **** fests all the time, fallout 3, skyrim and oblivion, all bad on release. Some things for Fallout 3 and Skyrim still and won't ever be fixed. Yes there games are good, but there should be no exceptions.
2-Bad companies won't fall if they get money for releasing ***** games before people know they are ****** .
3-Captialism works by us being able to critize and stop bad practices, been given money for unfinished projects is a bad practice. Espicaly those from big ass publishers. It also causes publishers to rush developers. No good comes from pre-order. Kick starter projects are different most of the time
1-Bethseda release buggy **** fests all the time, fallout 3, skyrim and oblivion, all bad on release. Some things for Fallout 3 and Skyrim still and won't ever be fixed. Yes there games are good, but there should be no exceptions.
2-Bad companies won't fall if they get money for releasing ***** games before people know they are ****** .
3-Captialism works by us being able to critize and stop bad practices, been given money for unfinished projects is a bad practice. Espicaly those from big ass publishers. It also causes publishers to rush developers. No good comes from pre-order. Kick starter projects are different most of the time
#114 to #6
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leifbunny (06/24/2015) [-] Actual quality? Have you not played any of their games? Bethesda is great.... great... GREAT. At writing stories. But their debug team is in serious need of help. And it's only fair for that to happen. They make really big games. But if you preorder their game, then you're telling them you're ok with them giving you a faulty, incomplete product and that you're ok with them finishing it on their consumer's time. Impatient instant gratification is no way to live. It affects us in that way alone. We are damaging our hobby's core component. Preordering means you are ok with the following:
-Quests not being able to be completed
-AI that makes no sense and has poor pathfinding
-Models that fall apart or stretch past their joints
-Items that have a problem in their scripts that makes them worthless
-PAID DLC before the actual game is fixed.
Speaking on paid DLC. Remember when they were called expansions? Extra discs you bought that opened WHOLE NEW WORLDS? Not just a single questline or a new model? I know some games are still good about that, but they're not common.
At what point did the consumer have to pay to be a bug tester? At what point was i expected to call them and say "hey, you know that thing I just paid 50+ USD for from you? Yeah, it's not owning up. Why? Because you didn't ******* wait long enough to make a quality product." It's an ugly trend, and it's not just video games that are suffering it. It's our busy busy busy now now now mentality.
-Quests not being able to be completed
-AI that makes no sense and has poor pathfinding
-Models that fall apart or stretch past their joints
-Items that have a problem in their scripts that makes them worthless
-PAID DLC before the actual game is fixed.
Speaking on paid DLC. Remember when they were called expansions? Extra discs you bought that opened WHOLE NEW WORLDS? Not just a single questline or a new model? I know some games are still good about that, but they're not common.
At what point did the consumer have to pay to be a bug tester? At what point was i expected to call them and say "hey, you know that thing I just paid 50+ USD for from you? Yeah, it's not owning up. Why? Because you didn't ******* wait long enough to make a quality product." It's an ugly trend, and it's not just video games that are suffering it. It's our busy busy busy now now now mentality.
#162 to #114
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ztron (06/24/2015) [-] Fallout 3 actually had a pretty good launch, and New Vegas wasn't made by Bethesda. And all of Fallout 3 and New Vegas's DLC except for three of them were expansion-sized. That being said, I'll agree with you on Skyrim's release being buggy but playable and its DLC being just above average, but for Fallout 4 **** it Pipboy phone case man.
#174 to #162
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leifbunny (06/24/2015) [-] I admit, I'm a tad biased on a few bethesda titles. Namely the newer ones.
Fallout 3 was one of the most boring entries for me, so I never focused too heavily on it to see if it's really as bad as their typical creations in terms of programming.
You're right about NV, it was an obsidian creation, right?
Skyrim.... hurts me, as a TES fan, in every way, but I still played it. But it's a great example of "We should have pushed the release date back, but the hype was too strong for people to care until after it was too late and we had their money."
And yeah, the pipboy case sounds cool on paper, but you can't really be serious about wearing that thing in public. Pic related: We all thought that would be cool forever too.
Fallout 3 was one of the most boring entries for me, so I never focused too heavily on it to see if it's really as bad as their typical creations in terms of programming.
You're right about NV, it was an obsidian creation, right?
Skyrim.... hurts me, as a TES fan, in every way, but I still played it. But it's a great example of "We should have pushed the release date back, but the hype was too strong for people to care until after it was too late and we had their money."
And yeah, the pipboy case sounds cool on paper, but you can't really be serious about wearing that thing in public. Pic related: We all thought that would be cool forever too.
#198 to #174
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ztron (06/24/2015) [-] Yeah Obsidian made FNV with 3's engine, hence why its graphics are pretty much the same and there even being a mod to full-on play FO3 on FNV. And yeah I definitely wouldn't wear the pipboy casually outside, but for using it as your in-game pipboy and as a wall trophy when you get bored out that I think its kinds of justified.
#225 to #198
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leifbunny (06/24/2015) [-] Eh. You can still download the pipboy OS whether or not you have phone case. And.... really... no. I can just buy the case cheap later in between the hype drop off and the time it becomes a collectible if I want it that badly. It'll be so common they'll be like.. 20 USD, tops. But at the very least, I'm not handing money to the wrong people at the wrong time.
#308 to #114
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hydraetis (06/25/2015) [-] I'm convinced the only reason why everyone places Bethesda on such a high pedestal is because they can't tell the difference between the modding community and the company. If EA or Ubisoft left one of their games half undone and made the players fill it all in, holy **** there would be hell to pay.
#315 to #309
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hydraetis (06/25/2015) [-] They may not be exactly like how Bethesda does their games, but there are many games that I'd call similar at least in terms of the basic points of the game
- Witcher
- Dragon's Dogma
- Two Worlds
- Some of the Divinity titles
- Gothic
- Kingdoms of Amalur
- Fable (original)
- Witcher
- Dragon's Dogma
- Two Worlds
- Some of the Divinity titles
- Gothic
- Kingdoms of Amalur
- Fable (original)
#227 to #6
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thepizzadevourer (06/24/2015) [-] Here's an analogy I like to use.
We used to have dog, and we trained her to jump on command. We'd give her a treat afterwards as a reward, and that motivated her to do her best every time we told her to jump. However, as she got older, we felt we could trust her because she'd always done so well before, and we started giving her the treat before we told her to jump. Pretty soon we noticed she didn't jump quite as high when we told her to. Soon after that, she wouldn't jump at all, but only sit up straight. And finally, she'd barely look in your direction when we told her to jump.
The point is, if you give a company money before you have the product in hand, you're losing all safeguards that their product will be good. With companies like Bethesda, the risk is less that the product will be absolute crap . . . but more of "eh, that bugged feature isn't really that important, we'll let the modders get it" Which I'd argue is something we already saw to some extent with Skyrim . The next game, it could be "well, we're running out of time, and we've already got our money, so we'll just cut that feature entirely".
Put even simpler, pre-ordering makes it easier for some cruddy CEO to force people to cut corners, because "hey, we've got the money, I don't care how many corners you have to cut, we're releasing this on schedule". Yes, Bethesda is a good company now, but if you keep handing them money on a platter at their say-so it's only a matter of time before they, at best, start cutting corners, and at worst, become downright lazy.
We used to have dog, and we trained her to jump on command. We'd give her a treat afterwards as a reward, and that motivated her to do her best every time we told her to jump. However, as she got older, we felt we could trust her because she'd always done so well before, and we started giving her the treat before we told her to jump. Pretty soon we noticed she didn't jump quite as high when we told her to. Soon after that, she wouldn't jump at all, but only sit up straight. And finally, she'd barely look in your direction when we told her to jump.
The point is, if you give a company money before you have the product in hand, you're losing all safeguards that their product will be good. With companies like Bethesda, the risk is less that the product will be absolute crap . . . but more of "eh, that bugged feature isn't really that important, we'll let the modders get it" Which I'd argue is something we already saw to some extent with Skyrim . The next game, it could be "well, we're running out of time, and we've already got our money, so we'll just cut that feature entirely".
Put even simpler, pre-ordering makes it easier for some cruddy CEO to force people to cut corners, because "hey, we've got the money, I don't care how many corners you have to cut, we're releasing this on schedule". Yes, Bethesda is a good company now, but if you keep handing them money on a platter at their say-so it's only a matter of time before they, at best, start cutting corners, and at worst, become downright lazy.
#77 to #6
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flnonymousseven (06/24/2015) [-] okay see, here's the problem.
you seem like a really smart guy. not the kind of person who just preorders all willy nilly. you think about the game your buying and the publisher your buying from. you THINK about it before you do it.
the problem is thil: is SMART people like you... even after THINKING REALLY HARD about it. STILL get duped into buying into preorder culture, STILL support broken games, and try to JUSTIFY preordering games from greedy corporations, DESPITE the fact that preorder culture CONSISTANTLY and DEMONSTRABLY has been shown to lead to franchise death in FRANCHISE AFTER FRANChISE. the problem is that SMART people like you, think they can TRUST these corporations. They think that a multi billion dollar, for profit corporate conglomerate, with hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars to blow on hype trains, and pre-rendered trailers, is somehow more reputable and trustworthy than an indie dev.
... It's SMART people, like you.. who are the problem.
to dumb people, you say "don't preorder, you're gonna get ripped of, and kill the franchise." and they say, "yeah okay that makes sense"
SMART people like you say "Well I really trust this publisher, they've never done anything wrong in the past. I did my research by watching that E3 trailer and reading an article on kotaku and found out that this game's gonna be flawless so why wait to pay for it? stop pushing your ideas down my throat!"
and then dumb people look at you and say "oh yeah! I should preorder!"
and then we get another battlefield four, or Halo MasterChief collection, or watchdogs... all from corporate publishers YOU the smart people "trusted"
you seem like a really smart guy. not the kind of person who just preorders all willy nilly. you think about the game your buying and the publisher your buying from. you THINK about it before you do it.
the problem is thil: is SMART people like you... even after THINKING REALLY HARD about it. STILL get duped into buying into preorder culture, STILL support broken games, and try to JUSTIFY preordering games from greedy corporations, DESPITE the fact that preorder culture CONSISTANTLY and DEMONSTRABLY has been shown to lead to franchise death in FRANCHISE AFTER FRANChISE. the problem is that SMART people like you, think they can TRUST these corporations. They think that a multi billion dollar, for profit corporate conglomerate, with hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars to blow on hype trains, and pre-rendered trailers, is somehow more reputable and trustworthy than an indie dev.
... It's SMART people, like you.. who are the problem.
to dumb people, you say "don't preorder, you're gonna get ripped of, and kill the franchise." and they say, "yeah okay that makes sense"
SMART people like you say "Well I really trust this publisher, they've never done anything wrong in the past. I did my research by watching that E3 trailer and reading an article on kotaku and found out that this game's gonna be flawless so why wait to pay for it? stop pushing your ideas down my throat!"
and then dumb people look at you and say "oh yeah! I should preorder!"
and then we get another battlefield four, or Halo MasterChief collection, or watchdogs... all from corporate publishers YOU the smart people "trusted"
#223 to #221
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flnonymousseven (06/24/2015) [-] how is that even relevant?
that's what THE PUBLISHERS WANT YOU TO DO!!
they want you to listen and believe that the games will be good, and preorder
I want you to do the OPOSITE of listen and believe.
I want you to WAIT and SEE if the game is good and not broken and THEN buy it.
that's what THE PUBLISHERS WANT YOU TO DO!!
they want you to listen and believe that the games will be good, and preorder
I want you to do the OPOSITE of listen and believe.
I want you to WAIT and SEE if the game is good and not broken and THEN buy it.
#13 to #6
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captainprincess (06/24/2015) [-] Calling theirs a good history is pushing it just a little
They're decent
And one must always remember that, tiresome though it is, cynicism in this case is in your best interest. For one, companies aren't people. They don't have fee-fees, and at BEST only SOME of the people inside of them even give a **** about your experience
For another, even the good can turn to abuse, and if otherwise good companies learn you'll shell out a marked-up price for a product that's not even done yet, you can bet there's only the thinnest of veils to stop them from trying to take you for every penny you have without even delivering if they could
To me, personally, it doesn't matter how valued and trusted the provider is, it makes NO sense to give up money for an item that doesn't even exist yet. It's a leap of faith that the more burned up of us are just advising against. Some are more militant about it, sure
But it's all obectively in your best interests all the same
BY not pre-ordering, you lose next to nothing, and you maybe put a slight dent in the pre-order cultuer that has new games front-loaded with locked-off day1 dlc or pre-order bonus content and **** that they use to effectively fleece the rest of us with a little spike of shame, to try and teach us "serves you right" style into shuffling along and paying first for nothing
You wanna preorder that's your bag
But you're gonna get shat on either way
It's them fleecing you for every penny you may or may not have or us pissing and moaning that you encourage them to try this **** on us all, no way out
They're decent
And one must always remember that, tiresome though it is, cynicism in this case is in your best interest. For one, companies aren't people. They don't have fee-fees, and at BEST only SOME of the people inside of them even give a **** about your experience
For another, even the good can turn to abuse, and if otherwise good companies learn you'll shell out a marked-up price for a product that's not even done yet, you can bet there's only the thinnest of veils to stop them from trying to take you for every penny you have without even delivering if they could
To me, personally, it doesn't matter how valued and trusted the provider is, it makes NO sense to give up money for an item that doesn't even exist yet. It's a leap of faith that the more burned up of us are just advising against. Some are more militant about it, sure
But it's all obectively in your best interests all the same
BY not pre-ordering, you lose next to nothing, and you maybe put a slight dent in the pre-order cultuer that has new games front-loaded with locked-off day1 dlc or pre-order bonus content and **** that they use to effectively fleece the rest of us with a little spike of shame, to try and teach us "serves you right" style into shuffling along and paying first for nothing
You wanna preorder that's your bag
But you're gonna get shat on either way
It's them fleecing you for every penny you may or may not have or us pissing and moaning that you encourage them to try this **** on us all, no way out
#29 to #13
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
Yes, but consider: I'm gonna have a pipboy that I can slam on my wrist and use to play the game when it drops. Those who didn't preorder, they ain't getting that unless they make one themselves or buy an overpriced copy of mine on amazon.
Otherwise I agree, preordering a game without any notable preorder bonuses is completely pointless.
Otherwise I agree, preordering a game without any notable preorder bonuses is completely pointless.
#30 to #29
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captainprincess (06/24/2015) [-] THis is what I'm talking about
This is the "Serves you right for being a little prudent and waiting for a fully-fledged product to spend money on, how dare you look out for yourself" soft-shame Im tlaking about
**** your fancy toys
**** the people who sent them to you and incentivized you to make ME feel worse for being patient and safeguarding my money more
It's just mean
This is the "Serves you right for being a little prudent and waiting for a fully-fledged product to spend money on, how dare you look out for yourself" soft-shame Im tlaking about
**** your fancy toys
**** the people who sent them to you and incentivized you to make ME feel worse for being patient and safeguarding my money more
It's just mean
#79 to #29
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akkere (06/24/2015) [-] You know the pip-boy is just an overglorified phone case, right? It's your smart phone that does the pip-boy functions. They'll drop an app in both stores that players can download and your phone will do the syncing through wi-fi connection.
Unless the pip-boy is actually made of quality material and not just hard plastic, I don't see how forking over an additional $60 is worth it. You might as well buy a smartphone arm band and tighten it to your wrist.
Unless the pip-boy is actually made of quality material and not just hard plastic, I don't see how forking over an additional $60 is worth it. You might as well buy a smartphone arm band and tighten it to your wrist.
#42 to #13
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ryalag (06/24/2015) [-] Im going to preorders games that I WANT TO, i have never pre ordered a game and been disappointed with it.
"BY not pre-ordering, you lose next to nothing" What if i have the money now but dont when the game comes out? What if I KNOW that i wont have the money when the game comes out but at the moment i have enough to safely SECURE my copy of the game?
"But you're gonna get shat on either way " No i'm not. I'm going to buy the game anyway and because i'm not a ******** who thinks that every little thing needs to be absolutely PERFECT like todays gamers are, i will enjoy the game. I preordered DA'I, did i enjoy the game? not so much. was i entertained while playing it and got my money's worth? yup. I Pre-ordered Warlords of Draenor. Did it make me enjoy WoW again? Yes. Did i get my money's worth? Yes. I've Pre-ordered a **** ton of games since this whole "No Pre-orders" ******** began and i've never once been disappointed or let down by a developer. Then again I don't buy into the hype of games so it's hard to disappoint me when all i'm looking for is an escape from reality.
How about you stop being a ******* perfectionist and not think that everything needs to be the best standard it possibly can be and instead enjoy things with how they are? Or is that too hard for you?
"BY not pre-ordering, you lose next to nothing" What if i have the money now but dont when the game comes out? What if I KNOW that i wont have the money when the game comes out but at the moment i have enough to safely SECURE my copy of the game?
"But you're gonna get shat on either way " No i'm not. I'm going to buy the game anyway and because i'm not a ******** who thinks that every little thing needs to be absolutely PERFECT like todays gamers are, i will enjoy the game. I preordered DA'I, did i enjoy the game? not so much. was i entertained while playing it and got my money's worth? yup. I Pre-ordered Warlords of Draenor. Did it make me enjoy WoW again? Yes. Did i get my money's worth? Yes. I've Pre-ordered a **** ton of games since this whole "No Pre-orders" ******** began and i've never once been disappointed or let down by a developer. Then again I don't buy into the hype of games so it's hard to disappoint me when all i'm looking for is an escape from reality.
How about you stop being a ******* perfectionist and not think that everything needs to be the best standard it possibly can be and instead enjoy things with how they are? Or is that too hard for you?
#141 to #121
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unikornking ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] Was skyrim ever on GFW? I bought the physical copy and it wasn't on there
#278 to #121
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iguanasandicecream (06/24/2015) [-] Goes what? I didn't give a **** that skyrim was buggy because its a huge game and was tons of fun even with bugs
#71
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roguekek (06/24/2015) [-] Everyone complains about broken games saying "We're not going to preorder anymore."
and then they turn right around and see a game they like and go "WE WANT THIS GAME NOW. WE CANT WAIT"
and it puts pressure on the devs
which causes broken games
We've pushed devs to release games too early that publishers took notice that we're a greedy grubbing bunch of humans and they take advantage of that and now push games out early, causing them to be a bit broken.
In reality, we did this to our ******* selves and people still blame the devs and publishers when all they were doing was listening to us.
and then they turn right around and see a game they like and go "WE WANT THIS GAME NOW. WE CANT WAIT"
and it puts pressure on the devs
which causes broken games
We've pushed devs to release games too early that publishers took notice that we're a greedy grubbing bunch of humans and they take advantage of that and now push games out early, causing them to be a bit broken.
In reality, we did this to our ******* selves and people still blame the devs and publishers when all they were doing was listening to us.
#253 to #71
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mistalleks (06/24/2015) [-] It's not the gamers who keep pressuring the devs, it's publishers. And it was this way since big money came to gaming industry. You just don't notice now how poor gameplay tends to be sometimes. We got used to it, we now do not believe to Peter Molyneux-tier ******** about trees growing in real time. A lot of cool stuff could've been done even in past years, if not for the publishers. They always want their money, they might not even understand what gamers really like or want -- they just look at sales and market surveyes and say "Hey! You saw that new CoD sold 1 billion copies AGAIN? Let's copy CoD stuff and repeat their success!".
But, even now, that even devs consider it's normal for devs to copypaste gameplay, and make little to no innovations, publisher continue to pressure devs, for that's their only interest -- to make them release the game as fast as possible. And since gameplay-wise we have many tools to optimise the creation process, graphics, on the other side, tend to grow in complexity -- especially with things like NVidia Gameworks. So devs have to make more testing and optimization for current-gen engines, since they are complex and relatively new, but their deadlines, that were stated by publisher, just don't allow this.
And, like I said, publishers and AAA-tier devs look mostly on market surveys and sales, and usually do not give a flying **** about gamer's bitching. Look at BioWare for example.
But, even now, that even devs consider it's normal for devs to copypaste gameplay, and make little to no innovations, publisher continue to pressure devs, for that's their only interest -- to make them release the game as fast as possible. And since gameplay-wise we have many tools to optimise the creation process, graphics, on the other side, tend to grow in complexity -- especially with things like NVidia Gameworks. So devs have to make more testing and optimization for current-gen engines, since they are complex and relatively new, but their deadlines, that were stated by publisher, just don't allow this.
And, like I said, publishers and AAA-tier devs look mostly on market surveys and sales, and usually do not give a flying **** about gamer's bitching. Look at BioWare for example.
#320 to #253
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roguekek (06/25/2015) [-] the publishers only pressure the devs because we pressured them and they want to make money off of us.
Just look at he type of **** people do.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9eGtyqz4gY
you see this made about ya game youre publishing,wouldnt you push to make more?
It makes publishers think "they really like this we can get a lot of money out of this,
Just look at he type of **** people do.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9eGtyqz4gY
you see this made about ya game youre publishing,wouldnt you push to make more?
It makes publishers think "they really like this we can get a lot of money out of this,
#102 to #71
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
Since when do customers have the power to force devs to release a game before it is finished? They build up the hype, they release the trailers, they provide the release date. They *want* the customers chomping at the bit for the game to be released, they can't then turn around and say it's because of all the hype they stirred up that the game didn't get finished. That's ******* ******** .
#327 to #112
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anon (06/25/2015) [-]
The gaming community only tend to bitch en mass when the gaming company ***** up. Like if they declare a game will be released on a certain date then push it back, then push it back again, and again. That's when it starts to look like a piss take and we have a right to complain about it. Same with people who pre-order then get a sub standard game that's full of bugs and **** on release, they have a right to complain about it.
You seem to be under the assumption that gamers get told about a game, bitch about it, that forces it to be released early, so they can then bitch about it being broken. That is not the case, people get hyped about a game coming out, because they've been hyped up by the announcement (see fallout 4) but they're not bitching that it's not out right this second and if that was a detrimental factor to the gaming publishers, then they would stop announcing the games. They would finish the game, then announce it, then release it when the community was screaming enough for it.
Gaming publishers don't care what the opinions of their customers are, just that they are customers. All they want is as much money as possible for as little effort as possible, as quickly as possible. So if that means releasing a piece of **** buggy game which their developers can then fix later with paid DLC then they will do that. You seem to have bought into some sort of faux gamer guilt **** , that says everything is the gamers fault.
The example that just blows your argument out of the water however is the latest move by warner bros on Batman Arkham Knight. They have just pulled it's sale from Steam until they fix it because of the buggy mess it is in. If they cared about the amount of people demanding it's release more than those who wanted it to work, then they would have said **** you and left it up to fix later.
You seem to be under the assumption that gamers get told about a game, bitch about it, that forces it to be released early, so they can then bitch about it being broken. That is not the case, people get hyped about a game coming out, because they've been hyped up by the announcement (see fallout 4) but they're not bitching that it's not out right this second and if that was a detrimental factor to the gaming publishers, then they would stop announcing the games. They would finish the game, then announce it, then release it when the community was screaming enough for it.
Gaming publishers don't care what the opinions of their customers are, just that they are customers. All they want is as much money as possible for as little effort as possible, as quickly as possible. So if that means releasing a piece of **** buggy game which their developers can then fix later with paid DLC then they will do that. You seem to have bought into some sort of faux gamer guilt **** , that says everything is the gamers fault.
The example that just blows your argument out of the water however is the latest move by warner bros on Batman Arkham Knight. They have just pulled it's sale from Steam until they fix it because of the buggy mess it is in. If they cared about the amount of people demanding it's release more than those who wanted it to work, then they would have said **** you and left it up to fix later.
#328 to #327
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roguekek (06/25/2015) [-] No, youre clearly misunderstanding
It doesnt force it to release early
It makes the publisher take notice
these things have and always will take time.
Gamers have always over hyped everything they want. And over hyping creates a bigger demand.
As with any basic business, bigger demand means the need of more supply.
But you cant produce more supply without paying more money to hire more workers.
So the gaming industry instead has its already payed workers create the larger supply by cutting corners and speeding up production.
The entire gaming industry is nothing but a cookie cutter template. 90% of large companies use contractors that can be replaced at the drop of a hat. This only happened because we pushed the demand.
Many game companies care about the opinions, but the publishers act like the owners of a sweatshop and take all the mail and send it through third party customer service. i can assure you Bungie still cares, but activision is calling the shots.
DICE still cares, but EA wont let them speak about certain things without firing them.
Rocksteady is under pressure to create 2 other games right now. This pressure is a huge factor into why they had to quicken the pace for AK. Money comes and goes quickly in the gaming industry. If they dont adhere to the pressure, companies like rocksteady will go under just like THQ and Vigil.
It doesnt force it to release early
It makes the publisher take notice
these things have and always will take time.
Gamers have always over hyped everything they want. And over hyping creates a bigger demand.
As with any basic business, bigger demand means the need of more supply.
But you cant produce more supply without paying more money to hire more workers.
So the gaming industry instead has its already payed workers create the larger supply by cutting corners and speeding up production.
The entire gaming industry is nothing but a cookie cutter template. 90% of large companies use contractors that can be replaced at the drop of a hat. This only happened because we pushed the demand.
Many game companies care about the opinions, but the publishers act like the owners of a sweatshop and take all the mail and send it through third party customer service. i can assure you Bungie still cares, but activision is calling the shots.
DICE still cares, but EA wont let them speak about certain things without firing them.
Rocksteady is under pressure to create 2 other games right now. This pressure is a huge factor into why they had to quicken the pace for AK. Money comes and goes quickly in the gaming industry. If they dont adhere to the pressure, companies like rocksteady will go under just like THQ and Vigil.
#135 to #71
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lametitan 
(06/24/2015) [-] The gaming community really is not easy to please these days with high demands and over expectations on everything
Releasing a broken game that should have been worked on longer makes em angry
Not releasing the game on time and delaying it another few months so devs can ensure it isn't broken makes em angry
Releasing a broken game that should have been worked on longer makes em angry
Not releasing the game on time and delaying it another few months so devs can ensure it isn't broken makes em angry
#9
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theclassicsg (06/24/2015) [-] Ironically, Far Cry is a Ubisoft series. Or would that make it the most fitting?
#186 to #38
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sniffythebird (06/24/2015) [-] It was a good game, but it still has issues on the PC m8.
#277 to #86
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martialbrony (06/24/2015) [-] >MFW all the people who hopped on the Far Cry bandwagon once 2 came out
>MFW they don't know the glory of Far Cry 1
>MFW they don't know the glory of Far Cry 1
#230 to #86
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segwaynazi (06/24/2015) [-] Far Cry 2 was great, i would wait on the road with RPG so i can shoot cars going by. Great game
#188 to #86
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sniffythebird (06/24/2015) [-] This.
Despite some repetitiveness and an awful lot of time spent travelling, FC2 was bloody awesome.
Despite some repetitiveness and an awful lot of time spent travelling, FC2 was bloody awesome.
#52
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desacabose (06/24/2015) [-] >Preorder Smash Bros Bundle
"Muh no preorders" friend won't pre order
>Only one of us has the glorious nippon gamecube controller folded 30,000 times cut through Solid Snake
>Still get beaten at smash
"Muh no preorders" friend won't pre order
>Only one of us has the glorious nippon gamecube controller folded 30,000 times cut through Solid Snake
>Still get beaten at smash
#184 to #177
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vaulttec (06/24/2015) [-] Sm4sh offers more in terms of single player than 64 or Melee ever did
And yes it's still stupid to expect good single player from a game entirely based around being a multiplayer party game
It's the equivalent of complaining about Mario Party's single player experience being less fun and exciting than it's multiplayer experience
And yes it's still stupid to expect good single player from a game entirely based around being a multiplayer party game
It's the equivalent of complaining about Mario Party's single player experience being less fun and exciting than it's multiplayer experience
#197 to #184
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mutzaki (06/24/2015) [-] I disagree. Sm4sh starts out with too big of a roster and the criteria for unlocking the remaining stuff is really uninteresting, paired with the relatively ****** single player mode.
SSB has never been "entirely" a multiplayer party game, and saying it is is what's stupid, if anything. Especially when looking at Brawl, and the continued pattern of the series becoming better at appealing to single player, does it invite you to expect another good single player experience in Sm4sh. Why would I not expect it when the game before it had it?
SSB has never been "entirely" a multiplayer party game, and saying it is is what's stupid, if anything. Especially when looking at Brawl, and the continued pattern of the series becoming better at appealing to single player, does it invite you to expect another good single player experience in Sm4sh. Why would I not expect it when the game before it had it?
#200 to #197
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vaulttec (06/24/2015) [-] Starting out with too big of a roster isn't a bad thing, and the single player mode is not bad
Are you even talking about the Wii U version or the 3ds version, because the 3ds version has Smash Run which is really fun and the Wii U has an entire Challenge Wall and an Event wall that I can almost guarantee you haven't completed
The game has always been focused on being a multiplayer party game, all the single player content was just added in to better the experience. You're looking at the worst game in the series and saying that one of the four games has a single player campaign means it's heading toward "becoming better appealing to single player". Subspace emissary was an excuse for brawl otherwise being utter **** gameplay wise, the combat was slow and the characters were incredibly unbalanced see meta knight having a tier completely dedicated to him subspace emissary was interesting because of the story aspect, and really wasn't that fun at all, all of the single player modes in the 3ds and Wii U are more replayable and fun than a "one-time" single player campaign
Are you even talking about the Wii U version or the 3ds version, because the 3ds version has Smash Run which is really fun and the Wii U has an entire Challenge Wall and an Event wall that I can almost guarantee you haven't completed
The game has always been focused on being a multiplayer party game, all the single player content was just added in to better the experience. You're looking at the worst game in the series and saying that one of the four games has a single player campaign means it's heading toward "becoming better appealing to single player". Subspace emissary was an excuse for brawl otherwise being utter **** gameplay wise, the combat was slow and the characters were incredibly unbalanced see meta knight having a tier completely dedicated to him subspace emissary was interesting because of the story aspect, and really wasn't that fun at all, all of the single player modes in the 3ds and Wii U are more replayable and fun than a "one-time" single player campaign
#205 to #200
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mutzaki (06/24/2015) [-] I (clearly) think so. I even avoided finding out about what characters would be included. First time I booted up the game, I even thought I was seeing the full roster. I'm talking about the Wii U version.
What all of it comes down to is that we can only agree to disagree.
What all of it comes down to is that we can only agree to disagree.
#3
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anon (06/24/2015) [-] I've pre-ordered games plenty of times and have never regretted it. I got Saints Row 4, Bioshock Infinite, Halo Reach, Mass Effect 3, Dishonored. If I look at the game and the reviews and the way I feel seems solid and or have played the entire series I tend to pre-order. For instance I probably will pre-order Batman Arkham Knight only because I played the rest with pre-order and on sale and really enjoyed them and the new one looks great, I probably won't pre-order Fallout 4 because I am afraid it won't have the same feel as Fallout 3 and be too hyped. I don't even watch trailers that much because of The Last Airbender which trailer looked like it could be something at the time and then I cried for 12 months straight, I base my opinion on the story, gameplay and the developers. I am not saying it is fool proof, but I am a major pessimist when it comes to anything like movies or games so I see every games worst aspects so it is easy to justify not getting a game before official reviews come out.
#206 to #3
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
I've preordered twice, once I was horribly disappointed, that was Dragon Age II. The other time I was really happy with the resulting game, which was Dark Souls 2. I work with preorders on a zero tolerance policy, I won't prejudge their game but if they fail me once, I won't have faith in them again.
#89 to #40
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
At least the Infinite pre-order came with Bioshock 1 and XCOM: Enemy Unknown. Which were far, far better than Infinite was. So at least there's that. You can't really say the same thing if you pre-ordered say, Fallout 4 and didn't like it. Seeing as you get literally nothing bonus for taking a leap of faith by putting $60 down without knowing anything about the game. Which sounds a little bit like gambling.
#50
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indecisivejew (06/24/2015) [-] When people talk so positively or negatively about pre-orders, I think its important to clarify whether we're talking physical or digital. Because there is actually zero incentive to pre-order things digitally. Once you pay the money, you are just buying hope that the game will be good, and your transaction is done months ahead of when you find out whether or not the game is good.
Pre ordering physically, however, only requires five bucks down to guarantee a copy on the chance that the place sells out on release day, and you can always just get your money back if the reviews and feedback you see are not to your liking. And often times you can get the bonuses for the preorder without even picking up the game. You can always get your money back, so you're protected if the game sucks and you're guaranteed a copy if its so good its selling out.
I don't do either of them often anymore, but physical pre-ordering definitely isn't so bad.
Pre ordering physically, however, only requires five bucks down to guarantee a copy on the chance that the place sells out on release day, and you can always just get your money back if the reviews and feedback you see are not to your liking. And often times you can get the bonuses for the preorder without even picking up the game. You can always get your money back, so you're protected if the game sucks and you're guaranteed a copy if its so good its selling out.
I don't do either of them often anymore, but physical pre-ordering definitely isn't so bad.
#131 to #50
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necrid (06/24/2015) [-] The gamestop nearest to me ALWAYS runs out of hyped games on the first day they are released (couldn't get DA:I or Bloodborne the first week of release because of that), and I'm just glad I preordered Smash Bros because they were out of non reserved copies when I went. It serves a fairly large city area, being in the middle of Boston, so that only makes sense. So that is why I preordered Fallout 4, because I expect those to be gone the minute they go on sale.
#14
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papagascoigne (06/24/2015) [-] every game i pre-order, i know i will like, i've never pre-ordered a game, and thought "this is unfinished" its just you ******* gamer elitists who have become so self centered, and with your head up your ass, if something has a texture error, or they announce more optional content, you cry "unfinished" and "being sold in pieces" maybe instead of spending your money and blaming it on devs, you ******* look at the track record, and make a choice for yourself. im sorry you cant see outside your circle jerk, but you should at least try.
inb4 being called edgy
not going anon because i want these red thumbs
inb4 being called edgy
not going anon because i want these red thumbs
#93 to #14
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yukicherry (06/24/2015) [-] There is just no sane reason to preorder any game.
There is no scarcity in the games market - After a game has been released it will always be available as long as you have money. As a customer you are putting yourself in a weak position with no real advantages. Publishers count on this behavior. You don't need the superficial content additions. It's okay to wait as day or two or a week after release.
The most common complaint is that the game is unfinished and that it requires immediate patching. But the solution to this is not just complaining about the developers that they should change their way (They won't ), but to adjust your own purchasing behavior. This should be common sense.
There is no scarcity in the games market - After a game has been released it will always be available as long as you have money. As a customer you are putting yourself in a weak position with no real advantages. Publishers count on this behavior. You don't need the superficial content additions. It's okay to wait as day or two or a week after release.
The most common complaint is that the game is unfinished and that it requires immediate patching. But the solution to this is not just complaining about the developers that they should change their way (They won't ), but to adjust your own purchasing behavior. This should be common sense.
#280 to #93
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iguanasandicecream (06/24/2015) [-] "There is just no sane reason to preorder any game. "
I want exclusive items there is my reason
and to garuntee a copy of the game
I want exclusive items there is my reason
and to garuntee a copy of the game
#185 to #14
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sniffythebird (06/24/2015) [-] Except unfinished games is the reality nowadays. It's not just something elitists are spouting out.
Have you even tried Watch Dogs, AC Unity, or Batman Arkham Knight on the PC? And those are only a few examples.
I don't pre-order myself, and certainly not from a dev with a bad reputation like that. And yeah, I agree people who blindly preorder are stupid.
Have you even tried Watch Dogs, AC Unity, or Batman Arkham Knight on the PC? And those are only a few examples.
I don't pre-order myself, and certainly not from a dev with a bad reputation like that. And yeah, I agree people who blindly preorder are stupid.
#25
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altairtheassassin (06/24/2015) [-] **altairtheassassin used "*roll picture*"**
**altairtheassassin rolled image**
Pre-ordering games is like paying for a hooker you wont see until she arrives on your doorstep.
**altairtheassassin rolled image**
Pre-ordering games is like paying for a hooker you wont see until she arrives on your doorstep.
#133
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alfibrakiz (06/24/2015) [-] I don't see where this fad is coming from. I pre-order games all the time and have never been disappointed by what I'd got
#170 to #133
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sketchE (06/24/2015) [-] gamers have become a bunch of whiny children. the people usually doing the whining are the ones who did the dumb things like preorder and put the whole 60 bucks down instead of the 5 dollars they wont miss. plus they usually have no idea how game development works
#194
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roliga (06/24/2015) [-] Can't wait for Fallout 4 to be released and just be broken as **** with glitches to the point where the game is unplayable, just like Fallout 3 and New Vegas were upon release so the Bethesda has to go "No wait well release a patch! Please don't stop gargling my cum!", and then all these fags who pre-ordered will pull a "woe is me" and "how could this have happened?!" And I get to just sit back and laugh at these losers as I say I told you so.
B-but it's different dis time
Nah, this is a fact, an unarguable fact that is going to happen.
B-but it's different dis time
Nah, this is a fact, an unarguable fact that is going to happen.
#32 to #23
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lordraine (06/24/2015) [-]
The Pip Boy edition is a ****** gimmick designed to bribe people into preordering a Bethesda game when they know goddamn ******* well it will need at least two major patches to be functional and will never fully work on consoles since it will also need the community made bugfix patches that only PC users will have access to.
It's a giant ass clunky ******* accessory you're never going to wear around or actually use because it weighs too much and is too ******* valuable to risk scuffing or scratching.
Go ahead. Ask me how much use I got out of my Limited Edition Master Chief Helmet model. Ask me how much use I got out of the DVD/Game Disc rack inside the helmet.
None. ******* none. It's a useless overpriced piece of plastic you're going to either leave in the box or put on the top ******* shelf of your room somewhere, hardly ever look at, and never use after the first time you try it out for ten minutes.
You're being ****** backwards and forwards. You pre-order when you shouldn't, a game that will need patches and possibly paid DLC to work remotely like it should, in order to get a worthless piece of plastic worth ten dollars at most, that you will pay fifty extra for and be thankful for it, because they created artificial scarcity by deliberately making far, far less than the number they knew people would want.
Anyone who actually pre-ordered for that giant piece of **** is just proof that a sucker really is born every minute.
Anyone who can't bring themselves to wait for the natural release deserves the ********** they're setting themselves up for, and are the reason publishers can get away with this **** . If you do this, you are the reason they can cut huge ******* corners and massively casualize games and still get away with it on release day, because they know they already have your ******* money. You are buying the promise of something you know won't be delivered based on hype, not something that actually exists that you are getting based on its merits.
Fallout 4 could be a giant steaming pile of nonfunctional **** , you wouldn't know. You just bought it because you were dumb enough to believe the hype a trailer force fed you, because you were gullible enough to think three dollars worth of plastic that was made in China and molded into a nostalgic but useless shape on a limited run has value, or possibly because you're just plain stupid enough to still have faith in Bethesda, when every game they've made in the last ten years was a progressively buggier and more overly simplified piece of trash, and the only good games they're associated with were ones they paid other people to make for them.
If you pre-ordered because of the trailer, you are a moron. Trailers always lie. Something should be purchased based on the merits it has, not based on how awesome some guy says it is who is paid to tell you how awesome it is.
If you pre-ordered for the overpriced and worthless piece of plastic, you are a gullible rube who has not developed the important adult skills of forethought and insight. You are the sort of person who probably collected Beanie Babies or comics at some point, and doesn't understand that things deliberately made to be rare and valuable rarely actually become either, and are always useless regardless.
If you pre-ordered because you want to support Bethesda, you're a ******* idiot. The developers and publishers who are currently ******* over the industry love you. The ability to pre-order season passes exists becasuse of you.
The only thing of value Bethesda has released as part of the announcement was Fallout Shelter. And it's free, you dumb ***** . Take their free digital game, stop buying into the hype, and either pirate the game first so you can make an informed decision about whether it is worth your money, or **** off for a year and get the game and the DLC for twenty bucks on Steam during the next Summer Sale. You'll thank me for it.
It's a giant ass clunky ******* accessory you're never going to wear around or actually use because it weighs too much and is too ******* valuable to risk scuffing or scratching.
Go ahead. Ask me how much use I got out of my Limited Edition Master Chief Helmet model. Ask me how much use I got out of the DVD/Game Disc rack inside the helmet.
None. ******* none. It's a useless overpriced piece of plastic you're going to either leave in the box or put on the top ******* shelf of your room somewhere, hardly ever look at, and never use after the first time you try it out for ten minutes.
You're being ****** backwards and forwards. You pre-order when you shouldn't, a game that will need patches and possibly paid DLC to work remotely like it should, in order to get a worthless piece of plastic worth ten dollars at most, that you will pay fifty extra for and be thankful for it, because they created artificial scarcity by deliberately making far, far less than the number they knew people would want.
Anyone who actually pre-ordered for that giant piece of **** is just proof that a sucker really is born every minute.
Anyone who can't bring themselves to wait for the natural release deserves the ********** they're setting themselves up for, and are the reason publishers can get away with this **** . If you do this, you are the reason they can cut huge ******* corners and massively casualize games and still get away with it on release day, because they know they already have your ******* money. You are buying the promise of something you know won't be delivered based on hype, not something that actually exists that you are getting based on its merits.
Fallout 4 could be a giant steaming pile of nonfunctional **** , you wouldn't know. You just bought it because you were dumb enough to believe the hype a trailer force fed you, because you were gullible enough to think three dollars worth of plastic that was made in China and molded into a nostalgic but useless shape on a limited run has value, or possibly because you're just plain stupid enough to still have faith in Bethesda, when every game they've made in the last ten years was a progressively buggier and more overly simplified piece of trash, and the only good games they're associated with were ones they paid other people to make for them.
If you pre-ordered because of the trailer, you are a moron. Trailers always lie. Something should be purchased based on the merits it has, not based on how awesome some guy says it is who is paid to tell you how awesome it is.
If you pre-ordered for the overpriced and worthless piece of plastic, you are a gullible rube who has not developed the important adult skills of forethought and insight. You are the sort of person who probably collected Beanie Babies or comics at some point, and doesn't understand that things deliberately made to be rare and valuable rarely actually become either, and are always useless regardless.
If you pre-ordered because you want to support Bethesda, you're a ******* idiot. The developers and publishers who are currently ******* over the industry love you. The ability to pre-order season passes exists becasuse of you.
The only thing of value Bethesda has released as part of the announcement was Fallout Shelter. And it's free, you dumb ***** . Take their free digital game, stop buying into the hype, and either pirate the game first so you can make an informed decision about whether it is worth your money, or **** off for a year and get the game and the DLC for twenty bucks on Steam during the next Summer Sale. You'll thank me for it.
#62 to #32
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thisisuser (06/24/2015) [-] He's actually pretty damn right about most everything
You get negative points for your salt though
You get negative points for your salt though
#228
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jrockjesse (06/24/2015) [-] I have nothing wrong with pre ordering really, Already pre ordered, battlefront, fallout 4, mario maker, until dawn,, yoshi woolly world, and animal crossing happy home designer.
the only one I am expecting to be a little broken is battlefront.
the only one I am expecting to be a little broken is battlefront.
#231 to #228
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theugandanhero (06/24/2015) [-] Good on you man.
Some people seem to have forgotten that with the right company, all you're doing with pre-ordering is showing your undivided attention to them along with your support.
Some people seem to have forgotten that with the right company, all you're doing with pre-ordering is showing your undivided attention to them along with your support.
#128 to #116
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mondominiman (06/24/2015) [-] Vaas doesn't have that big a role in it even though he's basically the face of the game
#113
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kristovsky (06/24/2015) [-] "I'm never pre-ordering games again!"
"Fallout 4 special edition pre order, comes with a cheap, plastic, ****** , gimmick phone case for ifag phones, it looks like a pip boy! only $120!"
sells out is 30 mins. Gamers, it doesn't matter WHAT you pre-order, if you pre-order anything then you have no right to complain when your game comes ****** , buggy and broken on release. The rest of us will save our money.
"Fallout 4 special edition pre order, comes with a cheap, plastic, ****** , gimmick phone case for ifag phones, it looks like a pip boy! only $120!"
sells out is 30 mins. Gamers, it doesn't matter WHAT you pre-order, if you pre-order anything then you have no right to complain when your game comes ****** , buggy and broken on release. The rest of us will save our money.
#134 to #113
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alfibrakiz (06/24/2015) [-] Never ever had a problem with games I've pre-ordered. Like, ever! Pre-ordered skyrim, loved it. No bugs at all. Pre-ordered Saints Row 2, loved it. Pre-ordered Far Cry 3, loved it. Pre-ordered GTA V, loved it. Pre-ordered South Park: The Stick of Truth, loved it. Point is, I have never been disappointed by the games I've pre-ordered, and this hate against it is just a stupid fad.
#59
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komandantmirkoo ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] >be me
>always broke, a little cash here and there
>finally get some money together
>"i can buy a game with this"
>need something that i can play alot and not get bored
>be a massive fan of the Arma 2 mod dayz
>dayz standalone comes out
>buy it day one
>still cry myself to sleep over how ****** i got by dean "team rocket" hall
>never buy early access again.
>always broke, a little cash here and there
>finally get some money together
>"i can buy a game with this"
>need something that i can play alot and not get bored
>be a massive fan of the Arma 2 mod dayz
>dayz standalone comes out
>buy it day one
>still cry myself to sleep over how ****** i got by dean "team rocket" hall
>never buy early access again.
#22
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djequalizee (06/24/2015) [-] I'm fine with preordering games from companies i trust to make quality stuff. If you're going to buy the game anyway then you might as well.
#73 to #22
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anon (06/24/2015) [-]
....why not wait until it's been reviewed and properly looked at so that you can make an informed purchase? It not only prevents you from buying stinkers, it also promotes healthy business practices. And "buying the game anyway" implies that no matter how horrible, buggy, and disappointing it might be, you would still buy it. I hope that that isn't the case because brand loyalty is very harmful to consumers as a whole.
#24
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blarghagh (06/24/2015) [-] i preorder what i want to, i dont preorder all willy nilly plus i only preorder like a week before release
#10
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syncins (06/24/2015) [-]
I bet Pc gamers are really happy they could refund the devil's spawn that is arkham knight
#106 to #10
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pokemonstheshiz ONLINE (06/24/2015) [-] Is it that bad? I got it for free, so I'm not too overly concerned, but still
#297
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iNirvana (06/24/2015) [-] I pre-ordered Fallout 4 Pipboy edition and I don't give a frick-frack dilly-dack what you think.
#305 to #299
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thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (06/25/2015) [-] You get thumbed down, but the reality is - you're right.
The said reality is, people will continue to buy **** because of brand loyalty, even if it's broken.
I sat there and read a ******* steam review for Batman Arkham Knight, which as we know was a terrible disaster for those on PC because it won't ******* run worth a **** . The guy's first line: "As much that i hate downvoting a great game, this titel deserve it.."
That's just so inherently ******* contradictory I don't get it. It deserves a downvote, but yet it's still a "great" game? A ******* unplayable game is a "great" game?
The said reality is, people will continue to buy **** because of brand loyalty, even if it's broken.
I sat there and read a ******* steam review for Batman Arkham Knight, which as we know was a terrible disaster for those on PC because it won't ******* run worth a **** . The guy's first line: "As much that i hate downvoting a great game, this titel deserve it.."
That's just so inherently ******* contradictory I don't get it. It deserves a downvote, but yet it's still a "great" game? A ******* unplayable game is a "great" game?
