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+360
User avatar #1 - wellimnotsure (01/07/2016) [-]
It isn't, however fear mongering and group think are very real
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User avatar #69 to #1 - ubadubba (01/08/2016) [-]
Are you sure?
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#2 to #1 - skelebones (01/07/2016) [-]
pretty sure the girls on trial werent just local news. they were damn near celebrities around the world. and if theres one thing ALL girls like/want/crave its attention.
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User avatar #7 to #2 - wiredguy (01/07/2016) [-]
the **** are you talking about

it was the seventeenth century, 1692

there was no such thing as "global"
the bicycle hadn't been invented, if you wanted to even go a single town over you'd need to be rich enough to afford a horse
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#68 to #7 - jettom ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
What is this ignorant mess?

The world of 1692 was insanely globalized for everyone except farmers. You do know of boats, right? And you didn't need to own a horse to go to the other town, you could hitch a ride with a horse carriage. For an university student at the time it was the norm to visit 4-5 different countries during their education, and the printing press (and as such, global newspapers) had been around since 1500, and 1692 was in the middle of the golden age of literacy. They had newspaper cries spelling out the news and people for the most part knew what was going on.

While I'll agree that the girls were hardly known outside of America or well Massachusetts at the time, there was very much a globalization, though not anywhere near the level we have today.
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#93 to #68 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Yea the top 1-2% got to do cool stuff, rhe rest of the yolk consisted of peasants and small business owner who never left their nations or states.
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#95 to #68 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Most people couldn't even read, let alone go to universities. And news would travel slow, really slow.
Carriage travel would also cost money

You can't call any of that **** globalised per our definition.


And something being the norm for university students at the time? That doesn't really say **** about society in general. It's like using the norm for billionaires to examine our society.
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User avatar #98 to #95 - jettom ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
48% of the general population in 1692 could read. In America this number was higher, but it's dragged down by Central Europe. So no, just about half the population could read at the time. News didn't travel slow either, compared to today, without a doubt. But back then there was a proper system in place to transfer news. And as skelebones said, even London got wind of the trials itself.
Yes of course it'd cost money, but it'd cost a very small fee instead of purchasing your own Horse.

Yes. Yes I can. Globalization simply means that the world knows what's going on and converses with one another.

You do realize that back then many people did attend some level of university or college? And that was more an example to show how "open" the world was to travel, as even a 20-25 year old student could travel to various countries just to study.
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User avatar #100 to #98 - wtfduud (01/08/2016) [-]
What are your sources for these numbers?
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User avatar #101 to #100 - jettom ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/literacy-rates this and my textbook.
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#102 to #101 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
I think its all ******** . Every statistic. Who and where did they take this survey? Truthfully we don't know how **** was in 1692 no matter how many textbooks we read
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User avatar #103 to #101 - wtfduud (01/08/2016) [-]
It says it was around 50% in the 1600's in USA.
There's no way it could have been dragged down by central Europe unless your sample size is the entire world, which would mean you would have to include all the large parts of Africa and Asia that weren't colonized yet.
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User avatar #105 to #103 - jettom ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
48% of the general population in 1692 could read. In America this number was higher
and just about half the population could read at the time.
Half the population is 50%. The reason I included 48% was on the globalization, and with general population I meant the population of Western Europe + America, which had very close ties at the time.
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User avatar #73 to #68 - tarabostes ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
awwwwwww you're so smart jettom
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User avatar #116 to #68 - wiredguy (01/08/2016) [-]
yes of course
all of that is true

I was just paraphrasing myself because long comments get a bit lecture-y :­P

the women on trial would have had no feedback from their news, is what I was saying. it's not like they had fans and a "team burn" and "team witchcraft". They got no attention from what was happening past the rim of their town.
it took a long time for information to travel, even though global awareness was starting to pick up

university students were an impressive minority at the time, they would also have been born into rich families
tinyurl.com/zddjqpj
the invention of the bicycle seriously reduced the frequency of genetic diseases because people were able to travel further away from their homes on their own steam. which I find pretty funny

though he's right
it was printed in a minor london newspaper, which I honestly find surprising. but it was very small time, and as I think I said in another comment, the trial would be over and the women executed long before the print went out, let alone before anybody could send fanmail back to them
I think his claim is ridiculous, not because the world wasn't finding itself globalised at the time, but just because it was too slow. It was globalised in terms of trade and travel, but definitely not in terms of information in a way that shines any light to the concept of a "celebrity", unless perhaps you were a high ranking royal

not to mention the fact that this wasn't just happening in the one area, it was quite spread about, "Salem" was just the area people took interest in, and it became historically memorable.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, I'm just trying to explain what I meant myself, better
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User avatar #106 to #68 - vorarephilia (01/08/2016) [-]
If letters taking months to deliver was insanely globalized, what is having cotton grown in india, rubber tree sap harvested (and i think processed) in South American jungles, turned to underwear in China, sold by an American company in a pack of 3 for 9.99 with a coupon, with all money in this process handled by European banks?

******* amazing is the answer. People seem to forget the East India Trading Company was very busy in Asia at that time pushing out its competitors and solidifying its monopoly through lobbyists in parliament. It was insanely globalized for people with money, and once the industrial revolution kicked off, people with money started to grow more numerous.
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User avatar #109 to #106 - jettom ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Yeah, that's exactly what people keep forgetting
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#67 to #7 - hongkonglongdong (01/08/2016) [-]
There was limited globalisation. Events in one country could achieve fame around the world, although mostly limited to one continent (e.g. all of Europe might know who William Marshall is, but China won't have a clue).
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User avatar #18 to #7 - AngryRedMidget (01/08/2016) [-]
There was globalization, the japanese had made a trade envoy to the pope 50 years previous for example. Global culture officially started in the mid 1500's
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User avatar #31 to #18 - wiredguy (01/08/2016) [-]
there was spending months of sailing at sea, yes

but I wasn't even really going for that angle
for one he directly said that "all girls crave attention", which is a stupid and autistic thing to think

but you couldn't really be a celebrity "around the world" before the telegram, if not even the long distance radio
Most people in the 1600s wouldn't have been able to read, or had papers available for sale near them, they just heard stuff through word of mouth or simply didn't care at all what went on outside their small homes
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#8 to #7 - skelebones (01/07/2016) [-]
no but the newspaper HAD been invented. and even london gotten word of the trials.
www.rarenewspapers.com/view/120069
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User avatar #16 to #8 - wiredguy (01/08/2016) [-]
so?
the information still had to travel over half the world by ship to reach london and be printed there

the prosecuted would be dead months before people heard about them
it means nothing, it's not instant globalisation, there's no feedback to suggest it is even happening
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User avatar #66 to #16 - toosexyforyou (01/08/2016) [-]
Why are you taking skelebones seriously? He is the 2nd most retarded person I've seen on this site (right below infinitereaper of course)
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#113 to #66 - skelebones (01/08/2016) [-]
says the biggest libcuck since platinumaltarea or however the **** its spelled.
grow up kiddie.
or dont. and stay mad.
choice if yours
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User avatar #115 to #66 - wiredguy (01/08/2016) [-]
lol I've never ******* heard of him
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#78 to #66 - welliguessitsaname (01/08/2016) [-]
Lmao. Can't even remember this guy.
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#114 to #78 - skelebones (01/08/2016) [-]
really? you dont remember getting butthurt i blew you the **** out on another thread to the point you actively went thro and downthumbed every comment i ever made?

well **** you too
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User avatar #117 to #78 - welliguessitsaname (01/09/2016) [-]
skeletons
You're going to have to be more specific, my dude
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User avatar #118 to #117 - welliguessitsaname (01/09/2016) [-]
skelebones
Cool autocorrect
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#11 to #8 - nerdmen ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
well the problem there the fact that at the time most newspapers had more to do with just the countries it was in. I bet people around the world knew about it but probably not on the same level as people around Salem
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#65 to #11 - groborg (01/08/2016) [-]
How can you be so narrow-minded to think that the contemporaries in the 17th century knew of the witch trials in Salem? Tons of countries had witch trials back then. Switzerland and Norway are two I can think of on the top of my head.

Pic related: Steilneset (a memorial built in remembrance of the witches trialed in Vardø.

Translation:

Anne, wife of Lauritz Pedersen.
Brought before the court in Kjelvik on July 13th 1610.
Accused of: Practicing witchcraft.

Was subjected to water ordeal and was unable to sink
Floating was considered a sign from God and evidence for witchcraft
Was convicted for practice of withcraft.
One half of her husband's joint estate desolved to the King
The estate was to be transferred after all legal and ascertainable debts had been paid.

Sentenced to death in fire at the stake.
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#112 to #65 - nerdmen ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
could you not put words in my mouth. I meant people probably did not know about Salem's witch trials and what was going on. When did I say that no other country has witch trials?
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#12 to #11 - nerdmen ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
sorry let me be specific
This paper probably was sold exclusively in the U.S
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User avatar #17 to #12 - wiredguy (01/08/2016) [-]
no he's right
the newspaper was a london print
it just doesn't have anything to do with the claim being made
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User avatar #42 to #1 - thesinful ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Also class warfare. "He's rich. I saw him summon Satan!"
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#104 to #42 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Lol, too complex for FJ community to comprehend I guess.
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User avatar #5 to #1 - wiredguy (01/07/2016) [-]
it's not been proven, but it seems likely that ergot poisoning did play a role in many such incidents at the time

it wasn't the water though
the fungus would infect the rye plants people used to make bread

in fact, there's always some amount of passive lsd in circulation, not enough for anybody to "trip balls" by a very long way, but still enough to induce a very minor physiological reaction
points of history where there were peaks of lsd levels actually correlate with times of scientific enlightenment, which is pretty funny
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#43 to #5 - johnwaynee (01/08/2016) [-]
Also the drug that forms from this particular form of ergot, which is extremely hard to re-create (but is very possible), is not LSD but LSA which is also naturally found in Morning Glory seeds as well as Hawaiian Baby Woodrose and is commonly extracted to be used in the process of making LSD due to Lysergic Acid being heavily controlled.
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#14 to #5 - ExorArgus ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
What the actual **** are you talking about. Chlorine destroys LSD that is just an urban legend.
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#96 to #14 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
What does that have to do with anything he said?
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#99 to #96 - ExorArgus ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
"in fact, there's always some amount of passive lsd in circulation, not enough for anybody to "trip balls" by a very long way, but still enough to induce a very minor physiological reaction
points of history where there were peaks of lsd levels actually correlate with times of scientific enlightenment, which is pretty funny"

That is a ******** myth that is has no basis in reality because of the chlorine content of north american water, it inactivates the hallucinogenic.
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User avatar #38 - papaar (01/08/2016) [-]
Ergot poisoning. Ergot is a fungus that grows in wheat crops and similar cereal crops. At the time pretty much everyone consumed wheat and there wasn't a way to check for the fungus
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User avatar #107 to #38 - hanklecram (01/08/2016) [-]
Truth, usually it's rye that gets infected.
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#45 to #38 - traycepickering (01/08/2016) [-]
No it was witches.
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User avatar #4 - rocketelbow (01/07/2016) [-]
It's called Ergot.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot
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#28 to #4 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Correct.
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User avatar #6 to #4 - wiredguy (01/07/2016) [-]
you beat me to it by 43 seconds
damnit
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#9 to #4 - ExorArgus ONLINE (01/07/2016) [-]
From that link "Ergot contains no lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) but instead contains lysergic acid as well as its precursor,[17]ergotamine. Lysergic acid is an analog of and precursor for synthesis of LSD." But ergot is still hallucinogenic.

The link you should have put up was en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism.
"Caporael argues that the convulsive symptoms, such as crawling sensations in the skin, tingling in the fingers, vertigo, tinnitus aurium, headaches, disturbances in sensation, hallucination, painful muscular contractions, vomiting, and diarrhea," aka not the fun kind of trip
And
" the chemical composition of the average human's stomach would be too acidic for the ergot to survive, especially if the food was properly cooked." So unless large groups of people weren't cooking their food its unlikely that this was the case. With lsd its on basically an absorbent sheet of paper and you keep it in your mouth.
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#32 - zourch ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
if its one historical event that gets me super heated ******* pissed its the Salem trials.
Innocent people dying all because of the growing lies of a few bitchy little girls pointing there fingers at anybody who questioned them.

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User avatar #85 to #32 - bionicpanda (01/08/2016) [-]
Ehhh The Crucible was a bit more annoying, which isn't really an accurate interpretation
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#111 to #32 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Sounds like feminists these days
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#88 to #32 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
More like their father's telling the girls who to point their fingers at to gain more land.


Or at least that is the theory I believe.
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#44 to #32 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
You sure you're not just taking The Crucible to be factual?
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User avatar #57 to #32 - xsap (01/08/2016) [-]
few bitchy little girls pointing there fingers at anybody who questioned them

SJW 1600's edition
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#13 - puttman (01/08/2016) [-]
Lsd= man made
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User avatar #15 to #13 - theism ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
LSD is derived from lysergic acid which can be extracted from ergot fungus. While less potent lysergic acid still has hallucinogenic properties.
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User avatar #60 to #15 - blackmageewizardt (01/08/2016) [-]
Memo to myself:

Next salehit to Junkies? LSD extracted from ergot fungus, the ******* Hippies gonna love it.
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User avatar #62 to #60 - theism ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
To make lsd you have to go through a complex refinement process. The risks include gangrene, unintentional explosion and poisoning. Not a good idea if you don't have a background in chemistry.
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#92 to #62 - lesgrossman (01/08/2016) [-]
GIF
at least someone knows what they're talking about.
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#64 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
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#80 to #75 - anisbanana (01/08/2016) [-]
i love your profile pic
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User avatar #91 to #80 - wacemindu (01/08/2016) [-]
and I love yours
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#59 - thesirofponies (01/08/2016) [-]
Massachusetts mentioned
Swell with Dunkin Donuts, ****** roads,and heroin
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#79 to #59 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
And Fallout 4
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#30 - funkmasterjunk (01/08/2016) [-]
The people who practiced wicca at this time were actually ritualistically taking a drug called datura, which is like the most horrible **** you can ever trip balls on it makes you see some ****** up stuff like demons and **** . You pretty much feel like you're in hell being tortured when you're tripping on datura. Thus the salam witch trials. Gif related
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#36 to #30 - obliviscor (01/08/2016) [-]
thats some crazy ****
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User avatar #55 to #30 - fatminion ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I was like "datura? How come I've never heard of it?" <google search> "ah, Angel's trumpets. Yes. Have heard bad things" but still might want to try in controlled conditions. Plus, if our ancestors could handle their **** with no indoor plumbing, shouldn't I be able to trip in the woods while a few friends watch me?
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User avatar #90 to #55 - thesovereigngrave (01/08/2016) [-]
I would advise against it. Datura isn't just a hallucinogenic; it's also straight up poisonous. People in modern times have died from trying datura.
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User avatar #84 to #55 - gmarrox (01/08/2016) [-]
Don't do it. I had the same mindset, tried it, and now I wish I never had. I still feel uncomfortable when I think about my trip (what little of it I remember) and my sitter says I was acting like a bipolar demented person. Also the constant feeling of thirst and dehydration is almost unbearable.
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#81 to #30 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Except this was centuries because Wicca even existed.
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User avatar #83 to #30 - gmarrox (01/08/2016) [-]
As someone who's tried datura, believe me when I say stay the **** away from datura. The entire experience is feeling completely normal, except you're in hell for 3 days and everything is terrifying. Also you will probably **** /piss/puke on yourself at least once.
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User avatar #108 to #30 - trolljunkusa (01/08/2016) [-]
So is that what they're implying they are on when all the girls in the crucible do that satanic dance in the beginning of the book naked?
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#3 - randomuploads (01/07/2016) [-]
Did you know that the modern town of Salem identifies so strongly with this incident more than 300 years ago that their cop-cars still carry witch logos? I thought that was rather bizarre.
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User avatar #10 to #3 - vanillasmoke (01/08/2016) [-]
go to salem on halloween, thats bizarre, they take that **** serious. also think there is a high wicken population there
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User avatar #23 to #10 - chuca (01/08/2016) [-]
I think you mean Wiccan. Which seeing as FJ is trying to tell me it's not a real word I can understand the mistake.

On a side not there seems to be a lot of words that FJ won't recognize. Keeps making me second guess myself.
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User avatar #26 to #23 - vanillasmoke (01/08/2016) [-]
thanks for the correction, figured i spelt it wrong but hooked on phonix worked for me
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#49 to #10 - randomuploads (01/08/2016) [-]
Must be a sleepy town that they're still milking that event 300 years later.
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User avatar #87 - hahafunnyuwhore (01/08/2016) [-]
No they weren't
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User avatar #89 to #87 - Sunset (01/08/2016) [-]
haha funny u whore
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User avatar #61 - thevaulthunter (01/08/2016) [-]
I thought it was more a situation like the Inquisition, where one person could get the property of another by saying someone was a witch (like how someone would say someone is a Muslim) regardless of whether or not it was true. The society there was composed of those smart and devious enough to take advantage of fear, and those dumb enough to believe in witchcraft.
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#70 to #61 - aexhaustedheadcase (01/08/2016) [-]
This was true. You claim your neighbor os a witch and get thwir land as a thank you for turning in the evil person.
But thay doesnt mean the original mania wasnt started by someone tripping balls and seeing the serving girl walk on the walls.


Also random facy. There were no burnings at the salem witch trails. All the burning bull was in europe. In salem they did other weird **** . And in fact iirc the mania actually only resulted in one death.
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User avatar #76 to #70 - huntergriff ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
i thought they hung people in salem.
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User avatar #71 to #70 - thevaulthunter (01/08/2016) [-]
A good bit of imprisonment and seizure of property, though.
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User avatar #47 - izdubar ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
I'm dumb **** too lazy to do any research, but water being contaminated with fungus LSD sounds like a typical ****** tumblr theory. If I remember it correctly, LSD naturally occurs in some kind of wheat mold (which is theorised to have been used in the greek eleusinian mysteries). I imagine that to dose the town in some atleast a bit effective way, the water supply would have to be pretty much saturated with that **** .
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User avatar #52 to #47 - fatminion ONLINE (01/08/2016) [-]
Ergot: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot

It contains lysergic acid, but needs to be extracted and combined with another ethyl (C2 molecule) to make lsysergic acid diethylamide. So either this chemical process happened in nature unlikely because the processes require the abscence of light and extreme pH and two stages or...

...we do also have LSA ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergine ), which is somewhat psychoactive, and does occur in nature. So maybe that is what they were talking about.
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User avatar #46 - Jenisist (01/08/2016) [-]
Isn't this the time you'd be put to death for having a kid out of wedlock/ adultery/ something of the sort tho?

I feel like if you did anything remotely not expected of you you'd end up dead anyhow.
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User avatar #94 to #46 - ludislavonac (01/08/2016) [-]
Not really, you'd just have a bastard child, possibly in muslim countries, but not really in europe
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#72 to #46 - aexhaustedheadcase (01/08/2016) [-]
Scarlet letter bro
I dont think they killed adulters/ being having sex out of wedlock
Just shamed and perhaps exiled them from the towns
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#77 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
The modern witch nowadays, she'll boil and eat your children for a buck.
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User avatar #82 - mcbergstedt (01/08/2016) [-]
I've read a couple articles saying that there was a rivalry in the town and most of the convictions were done by the "witnesses" for political gain.

Exploiting religion for personal gain, who would've guessed
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#97 to #82 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
They used that as an excuse to seize property in Europe for CENTURIES
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#58 - chokebee (01/08/2016) [-]
Well, we did discover that ancient oracles in Delphi inhaled ethylene or methane gases from a geological chasm that ran underneath Delphi which induced their "connection with the divines."
So this couldn't be far off the real deal.
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User avatar #20 - kinginthenorthh (01/08/2016) [-]
AFAIK they actually believed that some people were witches because people are superstitious as **** , then people realized you could call the chick you owed $20 to a witch and she'd be executed.
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#21 to #20 - anon (01/08/2016) [-]
Didn't it continue up to the point where actual important people were getting accused, upon which they pretty much just ended the whole charade?
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User avatar #110 - syrenthra (01/08/2016) [-]
Well I mean it is possible it had something to do with the start of the witch hunts as there is a fungus that grows on Rye when wet, Lysergic acid I think, which is close to LSD if I remember right (this is all from my chem class this past semester which I have begun to forget already). So while it didn't make it escalate to what it was, it could be possible that the first few accusations were because of this and then it became the whole "Kill them because I don't like them or I want their land" deal
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User avatar #86 - bionicpanda (01/08/2016) [-]
i played John Proctor in a school play and yes i was on LSD
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