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#647 - thahobomaster (11/18/2013) [-]
I really hate responses like this, as well as people who support them. Where is it that you people conjure up this belief that one MUST absolutely live out his life, regardless of how 						******					 it is? What gives people the right to even have the nerve to tell others to and how to live out their lives? And what right does anyone even have to help someone who is having thoughts of suicide. Just because you are filled with happy juice and have the power to overcome all your personal adversities in life does not mean the same for others. Sure, "don't give up" one might say, and it is contradictory in that, considering there is no human who has never given up on anything in life.    
   
 The whole idea of this stupid response is not only insulting, but cruel. Urging someone to continue suffering for the sole reason that they must live out their lives for the obligation of others is a paradox in itself. Generally speaking, most manifestations of the idea of suicide in an individual is generated from - another individual. And given that in the other scenario, where one chooses suicide because he or she could not overcome a certain crisis in life, then it is up to the friends and family of that individual to respect the final decision. Religions thrown aside, suicide is not a "sin", it is a choice. It is an act of giving up, surrendering. And I'll be damned if anyone tells me I don't have the right to give up. If the consequences are dire, then let it be. As the original post had stated, "the sun would still come out, the earth will still rotate", so therefore allow me to choose whether or not to regret my decisions in the afterlife, wherever that may be.   
   
Since this callitrichidae guy liked using the F-bomb so much, I too have a personal input on his response.   
   
						****					 you callitrichidae, and 						****					 your inconsiderate, shortsighted, and cruel response.   
   
Once again, 						****					 You.
I really hate responses like this, as well as people who support them. Where is it that you people conjure up this belief that one MUST absolutely live out his life, regardless of how ****** it is? What gives people the right to even have the nerve to tell others to and how to live out their lives? And what right does anyone even have to help someone who is having thoughts of suicide. Just because you are filled with happy juice and have the power to overcome all your personal adversities in life does not mean the same for others. Sure, "don't give up" one might say, and it is contradictory in that, considering there is no human who has never given up on anything in life.

The whole idea of this stupid response is not only insulting, but cruel. Urging someone to continue suffering for the sole reason that they must live out their lives for the obligation of others is a paradox in itself. Generally speaking, most manifestations of the idea of suicide in an individual is generated from - another individual. And given that in the other scenario, where one chooses suicide because he or she could not overcome a certain crisis in life, then it is up to the friends and family of that individual to respect the final decision. Religions thrown aside, suicide is not a "sin", it is a choice. It is an act of giving up, surrendering. And I'll be damned if anyone tells me I don't have the right to give up. If the consequences are dire, then let it be. As the original post had stated, "the sun would still come out, the earth will still rotate", so therefore allow me to choose whether or not to regret my decisions in the afterlife, wherever that may be.

Since this callitrichidae guy liked using the F-bomb so much, I too have a personal input on his response.

**** you callitrichidae, and **** your inconsiderate, shortsighted, and cruel response.

Once again, **** You.
User avatar #651 to #647 - subejio (11/18/2013) [-]
The sun would come up. The stars would come out. Life would go on, but it would be a world with that much more misery and heartbreak in it. I do not think I have any right to tell people how to live their life, only to tell them TO live their life. Suicide might stop the pain, depending on belief in afterlife, but it erases any chance of happiness in this life. Suicide is not a fixer, it is the ultimate destroyer.

The feeling that OP evoked? The guilt? It's a ****** feeling, I don't debate that. But it's a feeling that tends to stop the person from killing themselves in that moment. It buys precious time, time for the person to get their own head in order (as I did when I was wrestling with my own depression), or for others to help them (as I and several others did when a dear friend of mine was losing her own battle).

We do this because we care about you, and we realize that every last thing in life can be fixed, except death. Death is the only permanent thing in existence. I don't see suicide as a sin, I see it as a mistake that can never, ever be corrected.

It seems selfish on the surface, doesn't it? Telling someone "Keep living, dammit. I couldn't take it if you weren't there!" I don't see it as selfish. I would rather shoulder the guilt of knowing I manipulated someone into living, into providing the time it takes for them to see the light, than see someone make that mistake of thinking that something cannot be fixed. Because I'm really not sure I could take that.
#652 to #651 - thahobomaster (11/18/2013) [-]
The argument about whether death is a permanent mistake or an end to suffering is here nor there. Given that there is an afterlife where we keep our memories, I am sure there would be those without regrets.

But what you said about how you would rather "shoulder the guilt of knowing I manipulated someone into living", this I understand. And in no way do I mean this as an insult, I believe this whole urge to try and steer another off the path of suicide relates to something I had mentioned in my first comment, about how most people (implying you) in our society are conditioned to believe suicide is completely taboo. I am not implying it is entirely bad, I just personally believe it to be wrong, so don't take this personal.

I'll give you a vague example and personal experience to further explain where I am coming from, as I really want at least one person out there to feel the same as me on this subject matter.

My best and only real friend I ever had committed suicide. Whether or not he did it for "legitimate" reasons is here nor there, and is a matter of perspective, so I don't believe it is up for debate. Throughout his entire life, he was shadowed by not only his successful father, but a very successful brother. I was aware of the fact that he had suicide in mind, considering his social, financial, and personal matters had always been in the slumps. I knew if he were to do it, it would be because he was unable to amount to his family members, but rather the fact that he was a "failure", as denoted by society. Don't get me wrong, as a friend, I offered alternatives, ideas, and company. But nowhere along those lines did I ever tell him to not pull the trigger. As much as I would want to, what right do I have? Could I have taken responsibility for what I had said? The change of events required to save my friend could only have been done by him and him alone. Not only do I have no way of helping, it would've been meaningless, had he not triumphed himself.
User avatar #653 to #652 - subejio (11/18/2013) [-]
I appreciate the highly respectful tone you've taken, this could have easily devolved into a flame war, and I apologize for the antagonistic tone I took with my response. This is a fairly charged subject for me.

I'm afraid I hold a different view to your own. I do view suicide as taboo, not for religious connotations (being atheist myself), but because I view life as precious (I hesitate to use a word tied so intrinsically to the abortion argument, but I can think of no better substitute).

When free choice comes into play is where we disagree, I feel. Having been there myself, I can say that dozens or hundreds of emotions are at war the entire time, none of them good ones. I don't think a rational decision can be made while under such strong influences, as nothing muddies up the rational side of the brain more than emotions. I know when I was there, I couldn't think straight.

I hate to admit it, but I do see the error in my argument. I do not see those ready to kill themselves as being in a rational state of mind, which means that I'd never consider suicide to be a choice made rationally. That said, I do not view suicide as ever being the rational choice. I simply do not see a time where " **** it, I'm done" is a better alternative to " **** it, let's see what I can do."

I understand your point and respect your views, and I must say I admire your strength of will. I'm not sure I could sit there and watch someone break down to the point of pulling the trigger. I would not be able to stop myself from making the decision for them.
#655 to #653 - thahobomaster (11/18/2013) [-]
I appreciate you taking the time to read what I had written. As you have acknowledged a possible error in your argument, I will do the same with mine. I did not exactly grow up in the best setting. I had a physically abusive mother who, in a list of given nicknames, would choose to call me "trash" over "son". Just from that I would assume you can tell I did not have the happiest childhood. Needless to say, I had thoughts of suicide. My error in my argument is that some of what I say may contain an excess of bias.

On a final note, I do not want you to think I took a sociopath-esque stance towards my friends death. On the night I received the call telling me my one and only friend had put a bullet in his head, I cried. I was driving home from the gym, and the moment I got home I just simply sat on the floor by the kitchen counter for the next few hours, bawling my eyes out.

However, I was happy. Happy to know that his closest friend was able to respect his decision, and stick with him until the end. I continue to respect his decision and cannot see how I could be his friend if I were to influence his decision for my own personal belief/wants.


I think I am just venting at this point, but good talk regardless.

User avatar #656 to #655 - subejio (11/18/2013) [-]
Very much so, and you gave me something important to think about. I never really sat down to think about my stance on this matter as a free choice thing. And yet, I've always stood adamantly that people need to be able to make their own decisions in life.

Something to be sorted out, and thought through. Thank you.
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