Silly programers
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#41 to #1
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zetacross (01/05/2016) [-]
Another part of this : Programmers don't often meet with business/marketing people, so they are very likely to be lax about looks.
Only when meeting new clients (unemployed) then programmers will bother dressing up properly.
Also it's a trope for programmers to be the ones working way past normal working hours (less need for business meetups), that's why hackathons are common but not accountathons or marketingthons.
Only when meeting new clients (unemployed) then programmers will bother dressing up properly.
Also it's a trope for programmers to be the ones working way past normal working hours (less need for business meetups), that's why hackathons are common but not accountathons or marketingthons.
#2 to #1
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DrollHumor (01/04/2016) [-] More work = Less free time and or need to keep up appearances.
#4
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misterfail ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-] Guys I'm an aspiring programmer but I'm worried my skills aren't quite what they should be. Is it like a learn as you go thing or what? I went to a small community college and they really just taught us the basics of the languages. All positions I look at seem to require knowledge that I don't have. Any advice for a wannabe?
#23 to #4
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jagerhaus (01/05/2016) [-] It may just be a waste of time, but maybe try gathering some parts and hosting a server or build a kernel. I learned a bit by using Ubuntu and from there developed a few skills that I am now going to school for. Check this out maybe: www.freebsd.org/ . Microprocessors such as Arduino work great for project building. I don't know what aspect of programming you want to work in, but it'll all help.
#25 to #4
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fatminion ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-] either you grab yourself a bunch of O'Reilly books and read them through and do all the examples and try to get a "junior programming job" or something and work your way up.
Or... you get yourself a 4-year CS or software engineering degree and you'll get the experience necessary there and land a well-paid job right away.
Or... you get yourself a 4-year CS or software engineering degree and you'll get the experience necessary there and land a well-paid job right away.
#39 to #4
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animesource ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-]
I've got Bachelor's degree and my university was the same.
I'm afraid you have to do programming on your own if you want to learn anything. Uni only gives you basics in a wide area and then you decide on your own where exactly to head.
I'm afraid you have to do programming on your own if you want to learn anything. Uni only gives you basics in a wide area and then you decide on your own where exactly to head.
#43 to #4
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badgoodass (01/05/2016) [-] Consider going into multidisciplinary fields where people are really needed atm
For example working with Databases
For example working with Databases
#15 to #4
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anon (01/05/2016) [-]
I took 4 years of Computer Science at uni and walked right into a job as a front-end programmer. All I can say is that within the first week, I found that 50% of what I was taught was already obsolete or at the very least no longer considered best practice. I've learned more in 4 months than I did in 4 years, because every day I put in 9 hours of real hands on work, compared to various mixes of study and practice.
Make sure you have a strong foundation, that you are able to learn new technologies on your own. That's what I took from college, frankly. The ability to learn within a field is more important than the knowledge itself.
Make sure you have a strong foundation, that you are able to learn new technologies on your own. That's what I took from college, frankly. The ability to learn within a field is more important than the knowledge itself.
#5 to #4
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wilicious (01/04/2016) [-]
Do projects, this is easily the best way to learn, don't go "Today I'm going to learn inheritance!". Find something you want to make "I want to make a web protocol that controls the coffee pot at work!". Be committed to that idea, every time you run across something you don't know, there's your opportunity to learn it. Having something to show the interviewer is great, and doing programming is by far the best way of getting better at it.
The reason why schools generally only teach you the basics is because there's no point in going in-depth. There are too many languages to learn, so they teach you fundamentals so you know how things work instead. It's expected that you're willing to learn on your own.
The reason why schools generally only teach you the basics is because there's no point in going in-depth. There are too many languages to learn, so they teach you fundamentals so you know how things work instead. It's expected that you're willing to learn on your own.
#12 to #5
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donpacinoblah (01/05/2016) [-]
I'm an electrical engineer. This is VERY good advice. To be frank this advice applies to ANYTHING technical.
The reason I have been successful in my career is that I build fun stuff in my hobby. I cant tell you how many times ive solved problems at work by saying "I ran into this problem when i was messing around with _____."
The reason I have been successful in my career is that I build fun stuff in my hobby. I cant tell you how many times ive solved problems at work by saying "I ran into this problem when i was messing around with _____."
#6 to #5
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misterfail ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-] Well thank you for taking the time to help me out. I've had one project I've been trying to work on. I call it a DM simulator, but really the user just creates enemies for the four AI "players" to fight. I know there wouldn't be much interest for a little game like this, but I thought it might be fun to play around with and see what I could add. I'm hoping to be able to add more to it so that the user can have an actual Dungeons & Dragons - type campaign.
#8 to #7
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misterfail ONLINE (01/04/2016) [-] Well thanks for the advice. I'll stick with it and hopefully one day I can get a job in the field.
#13 to #8
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donpacinoblah (01/05/2016) [-]
use your humping picture on your resume. it'll get you a job
#20
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nought (01/05/2016) [-] i plan to forever stay in the "programming is a fun hobby woohoo" stage and never progress
#14
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chokebee (01/05/2016) [-]
An average programmer earns roughly 700 to 900 euro a month.
If you have good connections, the unemployed one would be a perfect example of contract programmers earning 1-10k euro a month.
If you have good connections, the unemployed one would be a perfect example of contract programmers earning 1-10k euro a month.
#16 to #14
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ferrettamer (01/05/2016) [-] I made more than 900 euro a month for my coop last term, it was my first job and there was barely any programming evolved, and it was roughly average to below average for first coop term at my school. I'm fairly certain the average programmer makes more than 900 euro a month
#19 to #16
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chokebee (01/05/2016) [-]
Also - I said average - in some countries you'll earn more, in some less.
You might also be working for IT specialized companies like Kainos, so you'll earn the base + what you made = averages from 700 to 900, sometimes more if there's a big project.
For an entry employee, that is - trainee, or a junior.
Seniors make buckets more than that.
You might also be working for IT specialized companies like Kainos, so you'll earn the base + what you made = averages from 700 to 900, sometimes more if there's a big project.
For an entry employee, that is - trainee, or a junior.
Seniors make buckets more than that.
#24 to #14
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fatminion ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-] ???
I earn gross a MINIMUM of 2500 EUR / month. This last month I made > 10,000 EUR (lots of end-of-the-year work). Maybe you live in Poland or Czech republic or something, but here in Germany and probably the rest of the world, you earn 50-100 EUR or USD / hr for being a "programmer" (I'd prefer the term software engineer or software developer)
Of course taxes are around 35% for me, so a yearly gross of 60k means net of only 40k, but that's still a good chunk and I dare say every professional software developer earns at LEAST that much. Probably more like 80k once you get to project manager or senior developer or something.
I earn gross a MINIMUM of 2500 EUR / month. This last month I made > 10,000 EUR (lots of end-of-the-year work). Maybe you live in Poland or Czech republic or something, but here in Germany and probably the rest of the world, you earn 50-100 EUR or USD / hr for being a "programmer" (I'd prefer the term software engineer or software developer)
Of course taxes are around 35% for me, so a yearly gross of 60k means net of only 40k, but that's still a good chunk and I dare say every professional software developer earns at LEAST that much. Probably more like 80k once you get to project manager or senior developer or something.
#29 to #27
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fatminion ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-] I studied electrical engineering for 4 years but have been programming in some capacity since I was 8 (I'm 30 now). Plus I only work an average of 20hrs/week, soo....
But STARTING at 100-150k in the states? Pfft... don't think so. Maybe with a masters or PhD and going to Apple or Google or MSFT or something. My first job after school (I studied in the US and only moved to Germany 8 years ago) was an EE job, which normally make more than software guys, and it was at a modem company and I got 55k/yr. Of course that was over 10 years ago, and inflation and all that.
Yeah look here: www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary/4fd947de/Entry-Level
entry-level software engineering (which can also mean people who have a PhD or people who have 5 years experience but are still considered "entry-level") looks to be between 55k and 100k max, with median at 71k. And 71k USD = 65k EUR, which I made last year. This year officially I made 55k, but I purposely am sitting on15k worth of invoices that I will send next year for tax purposes (to get in a lower tax bracket this year). But like I said, I work 20 hrs/wk, so if I worked full-time, I'd be in the 120-150k/yr EUR bracket. And in Germany I get 4 weeks vacation, not 2.
But don't do it for the money: do it because it's fun to solve problems and create software to help people and challenge yourself with new technologies.
But STARTING at 100-150k in the states? Pfft... don't think so. Maybe with a masters or PhD and going to Apple or Google or MSFT or something. My first job after school (I studied in the US and only moved to Germany 8 years ago) was an EE job, which normally make more than software guys, and it was at a modem company and I got 55k/yr. Of course that was over 10 years ago, and inflation and all that.
Yeah look here: www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary/4fd947de/Entry-Level
entry-level software engineering (which can also mean people who have a PhD or people who have 5 years experience but are still considered "entry-level") looks to be between 55k and 100k max, with median at 71k. And 71k USD = 65k EUR, which I made last year. This year officially I made 55k, but I purposely am sitting on15k worth of invoices that I will send next year for tax purposes (to get in a lower tax bracket this year). But like I said, I work 20 hrs/wk, so if I worked full-time, I'd be in the 120-150k/yr EUR bracket. And in Germany I get 4 weeks vacation, not 2.
But don't do it for the money: do it because it's fun to solve problems and create software to help people and challenge yourself with new technologies.
#28 to #27
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drdrpepperisback (01/05/2016) [-] job im applying for, you start out at 15 an hour (too lazy to do the math for year-paycheck) and can work up to about 100-140k a year after about 5 years. dont need any experience nor do you need a college degree.
luckily not everywhere gives a **** about degrees.
luckily not everywhere gives a **** about degrees.
#32 to #28
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fatminion ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-] > too lazy to do math
> expect 150k after five years
15/hr * 40hrs/wk * 52 weeks (assume paid vacation) = 31,200.
to get 150k/yr, you'd be making 150,000 / 52 / 40 = 72.12/hr. So yeah, that's a 480% increase over five years. Unlikely.
Although I will say, when I first started freelance programming, I charged €35/hr. Withing 3 years I was up to €60/hr, and now I max out at 70 (for the last 3 years)
> expect 150k after five years
15/hr * 40hrs/wk * 52 weeks (assume paid vacation) = 31,200.
to get 150k/yr, you'd be making 150,000 / 52 / 40 = 72.12/hr. So yeah, that's a 480% increase over five years. Unlikely.
Although I will say, when I first started freelance programming, I charged €35/hr. Withing 3 years I was up to €60/hr, and now I max out at 70 (for the last 3 years)
#33 to #32
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drdrpepperisback (01/05/2016) [-] believing me or not is up to you, but its good for me since i dont have to start freelance programming or have years of programming to back me up
#34 to #33
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fatminion ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-] and that's what I don't get: you have little to no experience, so basically you will be expected to teach yourself or your colleagues will teach you, and within 5 years you expect to earn a full-time Sr. Software Engineer salary? Which country is this in? Maybe 150k is like 35k € or something. I'm sorry, I just don't know any company that operates like that UNLESS they will be simultaneously sending you to university. And even then, normally a B.S. gets you into the 50-70k/yr bracket and the company pays for you to get your masters and then you get to 100k AFTER you've paid them back a portion of your tuition.
But again, my experience is only about 12 years and in the US and Germany, so maybe if you're in Singapore or Brasil or something it's completely different.
In any event, I wish you all the best! Programming and software engineering can be fun and can help your mind stay sharp in old age.
But again, my experience is only about 12 years and in the US and Germany, so maybe if you're in Singapore or Brasil or something it's completely different.
In any event, I wish you all the best! Programming and software engineering can be fun and can help your mind stay sharp in old age.
#35 to #34
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drdrpepperisback (01/05/2016) [-] fortunately theres a banking software company named Q2 that has a program about teaching people with little to no experience in programming everything they need to learn, then hiring them on full time.
and this is in the US, in Texas.
and this is in the US, in Texas.
#37 to #35
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fatminion ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-] I can't seem to find anything online that alludes to that. The best I could find was this:
www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Q2ebanking/Salary/by_Job
which doesn't show that anyone in the company makes more than 100k/yr unless they've been there more than 20 years. I don't want to discourage you, but I would encourage you to make sure they don't pull a fast one on you and promise you "you could make up to 100k or more a year in five years" but then basically they just keep you at 50k/yr as a slave - which isn't necessarily bad.
Anyway, it's time for me to start working actually.
Peace. Oh, and if you ever go to the circus in Austin, tell my friend Josh (he does trapeze and **** ) hello for me.
www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Q2ebanking/Salary/by_Job
which doesn't show that anyone in the company makes more than 100k/yr unless they've been there more than 20 years. I don't want to discourage you, but I would encourage you to make sure they don't pull a fast one on you and promise you "you could make up to 100k or more a year in five years" but then basically they just keep you at 50k/yr as a slave - which isn't necessarily bad.
Anyway, it's time for me to start working actually.
Peace. Oh, and if you ever go to the circus in Austin, tell my friend Josh (he does trapeze and **** ) hello for me.
#31 to #30
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drdrpepperisback (01/05/2016) [-] personally im just happy that it's not required, saves me going to college, especially since i couldnt go to a good college anyways due to my ****** grades in high school
#36
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captchakid ONLINE (01/05/2016) [-] I'm learning how to program in multiple languages, and know a number of them already. Pretty fun imo, just takes me some motivation to stop playing games and start learning more.
I know:
Java
Javascript
Python
C#
C++
SQL
HTML
jQuery
and CSS
Though, I would probably need a refresher for anything other than the first 3, SQL, and HTML
I know:
Java
Javascript
Python
C#
C++
SQL
HTML
jQuery
and CSS
Though, I would probably need a refresher for anything other than the first 3, SQL, and HTML
#10
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thechosentroll (01/04/2016) [-] A good programmer spends most of their life in some state of sleep deprivation.
