Phasma Menace
Re? _ WERE JUST "1
TO THE sums
GONE
we Tums '
I HSOULD "
TO THIN
so MM d
c) 2015 Israel Espinoza
TO THE sums
GONE
we Tums '
I HSOULD "
TO THIN
so MM d
c) 2015 Israel Espinoza
...
| |
Anonymous comments allowed.
310 comments displayed.
#56 to #33
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schneidend ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] The movie would have been even better if they replaced this dude with Captain Phasma.
#105 to #56
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sirmatthew (12/22/2015) [-] I think its pretty sick to see that the average stormtrooper has some awesome combat capabilities. makes the impending battle with Captain Phasma in the next episodes something to be hyped for.
#117 to #105
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removekimchi (12/22/2015) [-] phasma a ****
she's a coward, any trooper worth his weight in bantha poodoo would die before loweing starkiller base's shields
she's a coward, any trooper worth his weight in bantha poodoo would die before loweing starkiller base's shields
#133 to #117
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schneidend ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Or, just do it, and be confident enough in the awesome and terrible power of the First Order to believe they'll repel the attack.
Besides, what would it accomplish to die? They'd just grab another trooper.
Besides, what would it accomplish to die? They'd just grab another trooper.
#134 to #133
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removekimchi (12/22/2015) [-] wasn't phasma the only one with the authority to shut down the shields?
if they could just use a normal trooper, why'd they go for phasma, who i assume is a capable fighter even though she does absolutely jack ****
if they could just use a normal trooper, why'd they go for phasma, who i assume is a capable fighter even though she does absolutely jack ****
#136 to #134
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schneidend ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] They're ******* shields, not nukes. The engineers would need to know how to deactivate them to perform maintenance, for starters. It would also help for others to know how to deactivate them in case they're about to overload or otherwise cause problems. Captain Phasma was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If they had to find Phasma, they'd be ****** , because it's a planet-sized installation. She could have been anywhere that day.
#111 to #105
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schneidend ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] True, but, they were hyping Phasma. I was hyped for Phasma. Phasma was like half my hype for the movie. That and, of course, lightsabers. So, if you put Phasma in a lightsaber fight, my cock probably would have reached the heavens. Instead, I was left flaccid as they literally threw Phasma in the garbage.
#318 to #239
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altairibnlaahad (12/23/2015) [-] Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.
#177 to #33
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lonerifter (12/22/2015) [-]
God damn TRAITOR!
But seriously, I love that Stormtrooper, wish he lived. I also kind of wish is was Phasma, as it would show off her abilities and loyalty to the New Order.
But seriously, I love that Stormtrooper, wish he lived. I also kind of wish is was Phasma, as it would show off her abilities and loyalty to the New Order.
#2
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thepizzadevourer (12/21/2015) [-] People be saying that The Force Awakens is just a repeat of A New Hope, but they're completely forgetting that (actual spoiler) the plot literally revolves around a Stormtrooper who ends up saving the Resistance.
#267 to #2
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chinchulines ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-]
i just shot myself in the foot, i though the spoiler was going to be (yeah actual spoiler) something to do with han solo goddammit
#325 to #2
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drastronomy (12/24/2015) [-] A stormtrooper who leaves for no god damn reason
And who fights a bunch of ******* autists (refer to autistic fits of antagonist)
And who fights a bunch of ******* autists (refer to autistic fits of antagonist)
#50 to #2
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wagastragas (12/22/2015) [-]
***** , i never saw a new hope, and as soon as i saw this movie i knew it was a copy of new hope.
#182 to #2
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machiavellianhumor (12/22/2015) [-] god it pisses me off when i see a comment so wrong get so many thumbs. it's like a zombie apocolypse of stupid. just cause theres a lot doesn't mean there's a lot of smarts
#158 to #2
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civilizationv ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] yea but didnt luke want to become a storm trooper in the first place. so you could say that a wanna be storm trooper turn hero who ends up saving the rebels.
its like poetry it rhymes.
seriously SW7 is just a soft reboot. 6/10 not going to watch the futures Star wars in theater. i dont care if people spoil it, disney is just going to crash it into the ground.
its like poetry it rhymes.
seriously SW7 is just a soft reboot. 6/10 not going to watch the futures Star wars in theater. i dont care if people spoil it, disney is just going to crash it into the ground.
#115 to #2
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mechgeek (12/22/2015) [-] This isn't new though. (slight spoiler ahead)
The original Trilogy is about a young man leaving a desert planet to find a bigger purpose with the force after losing their only family.
The prequel trilogy is about a young boy leaving the same desert planet to find a bigger purpose with the force, by leaving the one family member he has left.
And this new one is about a young woman with no family leaving a desert planet to find her purpose using the force.
You even have a small droid holding deeply important information, a masked badass looking ****** with almost no lines and a single token black guy.
The original Trilogy is about a young man leaving a desert planet to find a bigger purpose with the force after losing their only family.
The prequel trilogy is about a young boy leaving the same desert planet to find a bigger purpose with the force, by leaving the one family member he has left.
And this new one is about a young woman with no family leaving a desert planet to find her purpose using the force.
You even have a small droid holding deeply important information, a masked badass looking ****** with almost no lines and a single token black guy.
#116 to #115
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zetsuboukamina (12/22/2015) [-] >Kylo Ren
> Almost no lines
The annoying **** almost never shut up
"I need you to make me stronger new emperor so that I can be accepted by Luke!"
> Almost no lines
The annoying **** almost never shut up
"I need you to make me stronger new emperor so that I can be accepted by Luke!"
#119 to #118
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zetsuboukamina (12/22/2015) [-] I wanted more Phasma. She was so cool looking and truly a badass. Kylo was just a teen in his edgy phase
#126 to #119
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angrybacteria (12/22/2015) [-] But she didn't really do much. Did she even fire her weapon? All we saw of Phasma was her giving orders, running around, and getting captured. At least she looked cool. Ren absolutely sucked, but I think that's the point. He's just the winy stupid kid who wants to be the next Darth Vader and fails at it miserably. That and he's a massive disgrace to the awesome Mandalorian mask he wears.
#155 to #118
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ihatecarltonbanks (12/22/2015) [-] I agree with him being a little bitch but i think that was the point. He's a young, immature guy who wants to be good but is to afraid of being anything other than evil because he was currupted by snoke. He was Supposed to be a bitch because thats exactly what his character was, someone who is immature, prone to temper tantrums, and hates the life that he feels he was forced in to under snoke. Look at it just like anakins conversion to the dark side except this time it's done by good writers. He wants so badly to fill the shoes of his grandfather that he is\, unknowingly, repeating his grteatest mistake. I'm interested in how this plays out but i hope they don't go the same route they went with the end of vaders story
#266 to #245
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mechgeek (12/22/2015) [-] Actually, I thoroughly enjoy the Star Wars films, I wasn't trying to simplify them, just pointing out some of the trends and themes. By no account is that a bad thing however, I quite like the fact that it has an aire of history repeating itself type set-up, but never actually being the same twice.
I mean, in the prequel trilogy we have 'the chosen one' becoming the supposed beacon of hope and peace who ends up becoming corrupted and becomes the very thing he was supposed to face against.
Then in the original trilogy, his own son BECOMES that figure, in spite of them both having very similar up-bringings. And he cleans up ******* shop with this Sith.
Now we have the sequel trilogy where (mild spoilers for those who haven't seen) Vaders Grandaughter stars of with yet another similar upbringing.
I mean, in the prequel trilogy we have 'the chosen one' becoming the supposed beacon of hope and peace who ends up becoming corrupted and becomes the very thing he was supposed to face against.
Then in the original trilogy, his own son BECOMES that figure, in spite of them both having very similar up-bringings. And he cleans up ******* shop with this Sith.
Now we have the sequel trilogy where (mild spoilers for those who haven't seen) Vaders Grandaughter stars of with yet another similar upbringing.
#184 to #2
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anon (12/22/2015) [-] hey guys JJ Abrams just wrote a 100% original copypasta sponsored by disney
What the toy story truck did you just toy story trucking say about me, you little Elsa? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Monster's Inc, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on originality, and I have over 300 confirmed shills. I am trained in jewnomics and I’m the top shekel earner in the entire US movie business. You are nothing to me but just another customer. I will wipe creative thought the toy story truck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my toy story trucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shara to me over the Internet? Think again, goyim. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of jews across the ocean and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the sequel storm, you little תולעת. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call great storytelling. It's toy story trucking dead, kid. I can say anything, anytime, and I can kill Han Solo in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have never even been in a real fight and learned watching what other people did in movies and copied it frame for frame. And I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable white privilege off the face of the continent, you little chara. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your ******* tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price $15 ticket plus food, you goddamn idiot. I will shrek fury all over the movies you love, and you will drown in it. You’re toy story trucking dead, kiddo. and so is han solo
What the toy story truck did you just toy story trucking say about me, you little Elsa? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Monster's Inc, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on originality, and I have over 300 confirmed shills. I am trained in jewnomics and I’m the top shekel earner in the entire US movie business. You are nothing to me but just another customer. I will wipe creative thought the toy story truck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my toy story trucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shara to me over the Internet? Think again, goyim. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of jews across the ocean and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the sequel storm, you little תולעת. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call great storytelling. It's toy story trucking dead, kid. I can say anything, anytime, and I can kill Han Solo in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have never even been in a real fight and learned watching what other people did in movies and copied it frame for frame. And I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable white privilege off the face of the continent, you little chara. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your ******* tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price $15 ticket plus food, you goddamn idiot. I will shrek fury all over the movies you love, and you will drown in it. You’re toy story trucking dead, kiddo. and so is han solo
#175 to #2
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pioneermhm (12/22/2015) [-] I agree with you, but they didnt put enough emphasis on Fin for it not to be a A New Hope remake. Loved it nonetheless
#251 to #2
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captainprincess ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Ive yet to see it but the way I figure it, a re-tread of A new Hope is a good problem to have
like
"oh no this new star wars movie is the same formula as one of those good star wars movies how awful"
like
"oh no this new star wars movie is the same formula as one of those good star wars movies how awful"
#276 to #275
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captainprincess ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] It wasn't really
the story format is relatively old
It's the setting that was in any way 'revolutionary'
But that's the thing
Back then Star Wars wasnt a long-time franchise with an established setting
the story format is relatively old
It's the setting that was in any way 'revolutionary'
But that's the thing
Back then Star Wars wasnt a long-time franchise with an established setting
#279 to #277
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captainprincess ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Even the philosophy could be said to be old
Probably not as concentrated in other singular places as the story format could but, not 'revolutionary', no
The cinematography mightve been sure
but that being the case was more a product of its time
Not a lot you can really do nowdays that's totally brand new
Probably not as concentrated in other singular places as the story format could but, not 'revolutionary', no
The cinematography mightve been sure
but that being the case was more a product of its time
Not a lot you can really do nowdays that's totally brand new
#283 to #282
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captainprincess ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Probably more people want to see that return, or atleast nodded to, than not
#268 to #2
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adoptedchicken (12/22/2015) [-] SPOILERS This actually kinda annoyed me about the film, like she was meant to be a really high up commander with complete devotion to the dark-side, yet she still turned off the shields? Like the whole resistance plan would've been foiled if she was just like, Nah
#4 to #3
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thepizzadevourer (12/21/2015) [-] That leaves out
> Anything involving Poe and Finn
> Anything on Han and Chewie's space freighter
> Anything involving Takodana
It's almost like JJ was trying to reference earlier films or something.
> Anything involving Poe and Finn
> Anything on Han and Chewie's space freighter
> Anything involving Takodana
It's almost like JJ was trying to reference earlier films or something.
#7 to #5
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thepizzadevourer (12/21/2015) [-] Not really. The entire time I watched the film, I never once thought "Wow, this is just like A New Hope." Sure, after the fact you can draw a lot of parallels between plot points, and there are obviously some referential parts, but the films feel entirely different. Mostly because their villains and heroes are completely different. Even Rei, though she shares a lot of similarities with the Skywalkers, is a very distinct character. Luke and Anakin were characterized by desperately wanting to get off their desert planet. Rei wants to go back.
#9 to #7
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anon (12/21/2015) [-]
Rey wants to get back so she her parents can take her away from it.
That aside, you didn't at any point think: Hey, another Death Star , Hey, another droid hiding something as a last resort , Hey, another dramatic family reveal, who has turned to the Dark Side in the past. . There is a reason that such a large amount of people are drawing these parallels between this movie and the Original Trilogy, instead of The Phantom Menace and the Original Trilogy.
That aside, you didn't at any point think: Hey, another Death Star , Hey, another droid hiding something as a last resort , Hey, another dramatic family reveal, who has turned to the Dark Side in the past. . There is a reason that such a large amount of people are drawing these parallels between this movie and the Original Trilogy, instead of The Phantom Menace and the Original Trilogy.
#23 to #9
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akkere (12/21/2015) [-] I saw a lot of points in the films as less allusions exclusive to the original trilogy's A New Hope, but more to the general premise that much of the previous Expanded Universe (now dubbed the Legends universe) had based its stories on.
There was quite a few Death Star-esque devices that were developed, the main examples being the Galaxy Gun and the Suncrusher.
Kylo Ren/Ben (who's name could be taken as a reference to Luke's EU son, Ben Skywalker) draws very strong vibes to the EU's Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
Snoke's complete tactile behavior and calm attitude gives strong allusion to the EU's Grand Admiral Thrawn, who was incredibly notable for being one of the only Empire Big Baddies that wasn't a total asshole nor a complete baddie.
The reason the parallels draw so much more strongly to the Original Trilogy rather than Phantom Menace (which, you have to admit are there) is because the film also gives a nod to the old Expanded Universe that's essentially been halted from development to give way to the new canon, but a lot of these parallels are essentially a strong send-off to what essentially kept the Star Wars franchise beating during the long hiatus between the Original Trilogy and the Prequels.
There was quite a few Death Star-esque devices that were developed, the main examples being the Galaxy Gun and the Suncrusher.
Kylo Ren/Ben (who's name could be taken as a reference to Luke's EU son, Ben Skywalker) draws very strong vibes to the EU's Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus
Snoke's complete tactile behavior and calm attitude gives strong allusion to the EU's Grand Admiral Thrawn, who was incredibly notable for being one of the only Empire Big Baddies that wasn't a total asshole nor a complete baddie.
The reason the parallels draw so much more strongly to the Original Trilogy rather than Phantom Menace (which, you have to admit are there) is because the film also gives a nod to the old Expanded Universe that's essentially been halted from development to give way to the new canon, but a lot of these parallels are essentially a strong send-off to what essentially kept the Star Wars franchise beating during the long hiatus between the Original Trilogy and the Prequels.
#97 to #9
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brownskin (12/22/2015) [-] Family is like the single most important underlying theme of Star Wars. The only one that really has nothing to do with the imprtance of family is episode IV. Also the reveal that Kylo was Han's son was hardly dramatic intentionally to save for the incoming reveal in VIII when we inevitably learn thay Rey is Luke's daughter. I expect that to be much more dramatic and reminiscent of the Vader revelation. .
Just saying
Just saying
#164 to #97
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spaaceghoost (12/22/2015) [-] Dude, Saying that Rei's eventual reveal as Luke's daughter is going to be a surprise is giving it a bit too much credit. My buddy is thinking she is going to be Darth Angst's little sister/ Han Solo's daughter. To put it short: Ben goes Darth Angst while he and Rei are getting trained by Luke, Angst drops her off on a random planet, and they all think shes dead. At least in my opinion, it could go either way, but option number 2 would probably add a bit more vitriol when Darth Angst inevitably gets his butt kicked and turns good again.
#169 to #164
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brownskin (12/22/2015) [-] I find it hard to believe that rey is Han's daughter, considering how nobody makes mention of a second child at all. Plus the film is ******* litered with clues that she is Luke's daughter. She's got a rebel pilot doll in her shelter, and wears either Luke's helmet or a damn good replica when she eats early on. Then Maz Katan pretty much ******* says so, and on top of that R2 (who has been deactivated since luke left) only turns back on once Rey shows up for the first time. And that's only like half the clues bruh.
I mean it's what I was expecting when I walked into the theatre but not when I walked out.
I mean it's what I was expecting when I walked into the theatre but not when I walked out.
#172 to #169
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spaaceghoost (12/22/2015) [-] Yeah, not to mention the whole "You dream of an ocean with an island" thing during the interrogation... then the last scene. I'm not saying hes right, but that it would be more of a twist with all of the foreshadow.
#17 to #9
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huntergriff ONLINE (12/21/2015) [-] It's a weapon to surpass the death star. they even had a cover on everything so the filthy resistance couldn't get in without going into hyperspace and exiting hyperspace on the planet's surface, planting explosives and then leaving after letting Han get killed, the resistance/rebellion actually had to do work this time instead of just simply plopping into a hole/trench that hadn't been covered up the empire. Also the entire new republic government got taken out along with its senate.
#52 to #7
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] To you, akkere, and huntergriff.
The"references" copy/pastes don't end there. There is the lightsaber being force-pulled out of the snow moment from Episode V. There's the dirty cantina with a bunch of weird-looking aliens. There's visiting a Yavin IV clone with ancient jungle buildings, just like Jakku is basically Tatooine. Han Solo has to negotiate with someone who is angry because he didn't keep a promise.
The more you look into the film the more it falls apart. There is so little in the film that is actually new. In a better script any of these things would be forgiveable, but ALL of them are just ridiculous. It makes it so that this film doesn't really have an identity of its own. It feels in every frame as though it is trying to suck the original trilogy's dick... and I would actually be okay with that if it was treated that way in character. Hell, kinda is in a lot of ways, with Kylo Ren being an utter Vader fanboy. That was a really cool idea, but here's the problem with that... it is addressed all of ONCE in the film. And how about Luke being a myth? What a cool idea that was! It gets a couple of throw-away lines!
If the film had been about paying reverence to the actions of these great characters then it would have been so much better, because instead of just copying old **** , it is giving a new perspective on it. Seeing the aftermath of the original trilogy. The Star Destroyer on Jakku is a great example of this.
But that's not what we see. What we see is a film that can't stand on its own legs. It borrows so thick and heavy from previous films that it surpasses homage and becomes a rip-off.
E.G: Why is Han Solo even IN this film? Remember the KotOR games when the Ebon Hawk just passed from user to user? How great would it have been if Han hadn't just shown up less than 5 minutes after they hijack the ship and the main characters were left to learn about her on their own? Instead we get barely any time between them before Harrison Ford shows up to take the spotlight. Past that point Finn and Rey barely exchange words in the film again. Hell, they barely exchanged words in the film BEFORE it happened but no, suddenly Finn's gotta save Rey for some reason even though he hasn't exchanged more than ten full sentences with her. I get that Finn is meant to be this innocent, do-gooder guy but again we don't really get to see that.
This film did not need Han Solo or Leia Organa or Chewbacca or C3PO or R2D2 at all. They just showed up because the film seemed to consider their presence a contractual obligation, and then BOOM! Luke appears at the end and we're supposed to care or consider it to be important even though literally every other character of the main cast that hasn't died yet has already showed up in the film.
And remember the time Darth Vader got punkd by Luke in the first film of the se- oh no that didn't happen because Vader is supposed to be a threat in the universe. Ren? He screams and whines and whips out his lightsaber to throw hissy-fit tantrums and then gets his ass handed to him by someone who HAD SPENT A TOTAL OF SIXTY SECONDS HOLDING A LIGHTSABER BEFORE THAT POINT!
If they wanted Ren to look like an unhinged person that everyone is scared of they should have had him kill people, not the scenery. That scene where he is going off on one and the Stormtroopers turn away is such a great moment but imagine if there were two more stormtroopers walking towards them and they get force-pulled into the room and then screams and lightsaber noises happened and the other Stormtroopers turned and walked the **** away. That would have made Ren both threatening AND funny! Instead he comes off like a brat, something that is reinforced by the fact that Ren kicks his ass. They couldn't just be equals or anything, no she had to put his teeth on that curb and give him a good old stomp for good measure so hard that the ground has to split open to save his sorry ass.
It sucks
The
The more you look into the film the more it falls apart. There is so little in the film that is actually new. In a better script any of these things would be forgiveable, but ALL of them are just ridiculous. It makes it so that this film doesn't really have an identity of its own. It feels in every frame as though it is trying to suck the original trilogy's dick... and I would actually be okay with that if it was treated that way in character. Hell, kinda is in a lot of ways, with Kylo Ren being an utter Vader fanboy. That was a really cool idea, but here's the problem with that... it is addressed all of ONCE in the film. And how about Luke being a myth? What a cool idea that was! It gets a couple of throw-away lines!
If the film had been about paying reverence to the actions of these great characters then it would have been so much better, because instead of just copying old **** , it is giving a new perspective on it. Seeing the aftermath of the original trilogy. The Star Destroyer on Jakku is a great example of this.
But that's not what we see. What we see is a film that can't stand on its own legs. It borrows so thick and heavy from previous films that it surpasses homage and becomes a rip-off.
E.G: Why is Han Solo even IN this film? Remember the KotOR games when the Ebon Hawk just passed from user to user? How great would it have been if Han hadn't just shown up less than 5 minutes after they hijack the ship and the main characters were left to learn about her on their own? Instead we get barely any time between them before Harrison Ford shows up to take the spotlight. Past that point Finn and Rey barely exchange words in the film again. Hell, they barely exchanged words in the film BEFORE it happened but no, suddenly Finn's gotta save Rey for some reason even though he hasn't exchanged more than ten full sentences with her. I get that Finn is meant to be this innocent, do-gooder guy but again we don't really get to see that.
This film did not need Han Solo or Leia Organa or Chewbacca or C3PO or R2D2 at all. They just showed up because the film seemed to consider their presence a contractual obligation, and then BOOM! Luke appears at the end and we're supposed to care or consider it to be important even though literally every other character of the main cast that hasn't died yet has already showed up in the film.
And remember the time Darth Vader got punkd by Luke in the first film of the se- oh no that didn't happen because Vader is supposed to be a threat in the universe. Ren? He screams and whines and whips out his lightsaber to throw hissy-fit tantrums and then gets his ass handed to him by someone who HAD SPENT A TOTAL OF SIXTY SECONDS HOLDING A LIGHTSABER BEFORE THAT POINT!
If they wanted Ren to look like an unhinged person that everyone is scared of they should have had him kill people, not the scenery. That scene where he is going off on one and the Stormtroopers turn away is such a great moment but imagine if there were two more stormtroopers walking towards them and they get force-pulled into the room and then screams and lightsaber noises happened and the other Stormtroopers turned and walked the **** away. That would have made Ren both threatening AND funny! Instead he comes off like a brat, something that is reinforced by the fact that Ren kicks his ass. They couldn't just be equals or anything, no she had to put his teeth on that curb and give him a good old stomp for good measure so hard that the ground has to split open to save his sorry ass.
It sucks
#54 to #53
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] Well alright then.
In context we're discussing the merits of a film but hey, if you're not into discussing it then fine, man. Have a good day.
In context we're discussing the merits of a film but hey, if you're not into discussing it then fine, man. Have a good day.
#57 to #54
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huntergriff ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] likewise.
I'm just saying everyone's opinion is going to be different. I personally enjoyed the film.
I'm just saying everyone's opinion is going to be different. I personally enjoyed the film.
#60 to #57
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] I maintain that quality and enjoyment are different measurements. I enjoy the **** out of terrible films and I can get nothing out of really good ones. Don't let anyone tell you what you can/can't enjoy, but don't let that make you deaf to criticism either. For me the film was painful in a physical manner due to the style of editing where even the non-action scenes had more shots under 5 seconds than over 5, making the whole think jump around and leaving no time to drink in the atmosphere.
I go to Star Wars for "Do or do not, there is no try." not *whooshing & Lightsaber noises*.
If the film worked for you then more power to you. Hell, I've even come to really appreciate the prequels in their own special way. And if you're looking for more Star Wars over the holiday then maybe check out the Holiday Specia-
(I'm just kidding don't do it it is so bad I mean oh my ******* god it is so ******* bad. I tried to watch it with my friends and we got through 30 minutes of poking fun at it before we couldn't stand it any longer. I started to read the dictionary and it was literally more engaging than that turgid mess. *cries* Why, Lucas? Why...)
I go to Star Wars for "Do or do not, there is no try." not *whooshing & Lightsaber noises*.
If the film worked for you then more power to you. Hell, I've even come to really appreciate the prequels in their own special way. And if you're looking for more Star Wars over the holiday then maybe check out the Holiday Specia-
(I'm just kidding don't do it it is so bad I mean oh my ******* god it is so ******* bad. I tried to watch it with my friends and we got through 30 minutes of poking fun at it before we couldn't stand it any longer. I started to read the dictionary and it was literally more engaging than that turgid mess. *cries* Why, Lucas? Why...)
#66 to #60
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huntergriff ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] I already saw the special, i think the only good parts about it are the concept of life day, the appearance of boba fett, and jefferson starship. other than that it's a crapfest that i watch every december i like to be reminded that it could always be worse. .
#131 to #52
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frenzysalem ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] I agree with you on most everything except for two points that were made.
I feel like Ren being a Vader fanboy was a bit ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Han's son being a sith is stupid all on its own. But think about it for a second. Why would this boy, who was raised among the most light sided people in the galaxy, have ANY reason to turn to the darkside and have a huge mancrush on a guy he never new? Surely Luke told him that on the day of Vader's death he basically went back to the lightside. And It wouldn't make sense for him to follow Vader for the power because Luke was strong enough to kill Vader himself and he was Ren's first teacher. You see, Anakin actually had a reason. He was told that if he turned to the dark side he could save his wife. His turn to the dark side makes sense. What reason could Ren possibly have? In the movie they said he was being taught by Luke and then one day he just went ape **** and killed everyone. It's ******* illogical.
Secondly, I personally thought it was downright ridiculous for anyone in the galaxy to think Luke Skywalker was a myth. You're telling me that the man famous among all of the Republic and infamous among all of the Empire for destroying the death star and killing the Emperor and Darth Vader was that easily forgotten? Maybe if episode 7 took place a few thousand years in the future I could wrap my head around it but this **** is literally just one generation ago. About 20-30 years had passed, Luke is still alive, and people think he's a ******* myth? Were his actions ******* hidden among the galaxy? Because I specifically remember at the end of Episode 6 there being lots of planets celebrating the actions of Luke. Logic went out the ******* door on that one. I'm glad they didn't revisit that because it shouldn't have been made in the first place. Just like the entire movie.
When you get right down to it Episode 7 simply didn't need to be made. Episodes 1-6 was the complete story of Anakin Skywalker. Hell, some people would say Episodes 1-3 didn't even need to be made because 4-6 was the complete story of Luke Skywalker. But at least the prequels made a logical extension to the story and explained the uprising up Darth Vader and the Empire. Episode 7 is completely pointless. It's just a tacked on moneygrab because, "hey, why stop making these Star Wars movies, you know it's gonna make a **** ton of money?" But hey, that's just Holleywood for you. It doesn't care about ruining a perfectly good franchise ad long as it means raking in the dough.
I feel like Ren being a Vader fanboy was a bit ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that Han's son being a sith is stupid all on its own. But think about it for a second. Why would this boy, who was raised among the most light sided people in the galaxy, have ANY reason to turn to the darkside and have a huge mancrush on a guy he never new? Surely Luke told him that on the day of Vader's death he basically went back to the lightside. And It wouldn't make sense for him to follow Vader for the power because Luke was strong enough to kill Vader himself and he was Ren's first teacher. You see, Anakin actually had a reason. He was told that if he turned to the dark side he could save his wife. His turn to the dark side makes sense. What reason could Ren possibly have? In the movie they said he was being taught by Luke and then one day he just went ape **** and killed everyone. It's ******* illogical.
Secondly, I personally thought it was downright ridiculous for anyone in the galaxy to think Luke Skywalker was a myth. You're telling me that the man famous among all of the Republic and infamous among all of the Empire for destroying the death star and killing the Emperor and Darth Vader was that easily forgotten? Maybe if episode 7 took place a few thousand years in the future I could wrap my head around it but this **** is literally just one generation ago. About 20-30 years had passed, Luke is still alive, and people think he's a ******* myth? Were his actions ******* hidden among the galaxy? Because I specifically remember at the end of Episode 6 there being lots of planets celebrating the actions of Luke. Logic went out the ******* door on that one. I'm glad they didn't revisit that because it shouldn't have been made in the first place. Just like the entire movie.
When you get right down to it Episode 7 simply didn't need to be made. Episodes 1-6 was the complete story of Anakin Skywalker. Hell, some people would say Episodes 1-3 didn't even need to be made because 4-6 was the complete story of Luke Skywalker. But at least the prequels made a logical extension to the story and explained the uprising up Darth Vader and the Empire. Episode 7 is completely pointless. It's just a tacked on moneygrab because, "hey, why stop making these Star Wars movies, you know it's gonna make a **** ton of money?" But hey, that's just Holleywood for you. It doesn't care about ruining a perfectly good franchise ad long as it means raking in the dough.
#214 to #131
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aggronlover (12/22/2015) [-] It's almost as if movies are made to earn money! Can you believe it?
Seriously though, realistically speaking, the Empire wasn't going to magically go down the drain just because the second death star blew up. The sequel trilogy takes a realistic opproach and shows that they are still a threath thas must be dealt with decades later, making these movies a somewhat logical extension of the plot.
Don't get me wrong, I perfectly get where you're coming from and I am even inclined to somewhat agree, but when you get down to it EVERY blockbuster movie is a cashgrab, so that really seems like an unfair point to bash this film for.
Seriously though, realistically speaking, the Empire wasn't going to magically go down the drain just because the second death star blew up. The sequel trilogy takes a realistic opproach and shows that they are still a threath thas must be dealt with decades later, making these movies a somewhat logical extension of the plot.
Don't get me wrong, I perfectly get where you're coming from and I am even inclined to somewhat agree, but when you get down to it EVERY blockbuster movie is a cashgrab, so that really seems like an unfair point to bash this film for.
#224 to #214
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frenzysalem ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] I couldn't disagree more. As a film major, I see movies as pieces of art. And most any directors from other countries across the world before the 80s would agree that even though a director makes these pieces of art to make a living, they are made to make an audience feel and think more than to simply earn money. Back then, movies were made with passion and thought rather than every single big Holleywood blockbuster to come out in the past year where it's just a bunch of sequels and revamps with **** tons of CGI because Holleywood has lost ALL originality and passion. Every Holleywood movie made now is made to make as much money possible, as quickly as possible, and putting in as little effort possible. 90% of "film making" now is done by some **** behind a computer. So no, not EVERY movie made has been a cashgrab, and yes this movie WAS INDEED a massive cashgrab as have 99% of movies to come out recently.
#227 to #224
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aggronlover (12/22/2015) [-] BUt I am referring to big hoollywood blockbusters. Of course a movie has to be good and there are plenty of actors/directors who are in it for the art. Heck, many people who worked on this movie were so eager because it is a Star Wars movie. My point is that nowadays any big-name movie has monetary gain as a concern by default.
And just because they are cash-grabs doesn't mean they can't be artful. People speak as if those two things are mutually exclusive. Was this movie a massive cashgab? Yes, it was. But the acting was phenominal, a ton of practical effects were used, and the story may have been somewhat unoriginal but it had it's solid tweaks and twists. The characters where very interesting and well-executed. Art evolves.
And just because they are cash-grabs doesn't mean they can't be artful. People speak as if those two things are mutually exclusive. Was this movie a massive cashgab? Yes, it was. But the acting was phenominal, a ton of practical effects were used, and the story may have been somewhat unoriginal but it had it's solid tweaks and twists. The characters where very interesting and well-executed. Art evolves.
#230 to #227
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] Mad Max: Fury Road - Hollywood Blockbuster with big budget. Practical effects. Utter labour of love. Tells story mostly visually. Is a sequel to a long-dead franchise.
Star Wars: The Original Blockbuster. Tiny budget. Big production values for that budget. Has become one of the cornerstones of film-making and has started a real-life religion and instilled hope into the hearts of hundreds of millions of fans.
The Lego Movie: A MASSIVE corporate cashgrab and one of the smartest movies to come out in a very long time. Effortlessly hilarious. Instantly nostalgic. Completely relatable. Utterly brilliant.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens: Meh acting. Forced characters. No theme. No message. High quality effects that lacked originality in design and drew heavily from a style that does not translate properly to modern filming techniques. Characters were bare-bones and mostly one-note.
Art evolves, but as with all evolution, mistakes are made and only the fittest survive. This film is not bad, it's incompetent, with basic failures in writing, editing, and shot composition that even a casual film enthusiast can't fail to ignore. It regresses behind even the prequels in regards to having a message, something that the Star Wars series has always held over the heads of lesser blockbusters.
All in all, this film didn't deserve to be made. They chose a very bad director for the job. They needed someone who knows how to slow down and breathe, because Star Wars is not defined by its action scenes. Rather it is defined by the quiet scenes. Intimate moments of reflection and wisdom that build both the characters and the audience into better people.
This film was trash.
Star Wars: The Original Blockbuster. Tiny budget. Big production values for that budget. Has become one of the cornerstones of film-making and has started a real-life religion and instilled hope into the hearts of hundreds of millions of fans.
The Lego Movie: A MASSIVE corporate cashgrab and one of the smartest movies to come out in a very long time. Effortlessly hilarious. Instantly nostalgic. Completely relatable. Utterly brilliant.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens: Meh acting. Forced characters. No theme. No message. High quality effects that lacked originality in design and drew heavily from a style that does not translate properly to modern filming techniques. Characters were bare-bones and mostly one-note.
Art evolves, but as with all evolution, mistakes are made and only the fittest survive. This film is not bad, it's incompetent, with basic failures in writing, editing, and shot composition that even a casual film enthusiast can't fail to ignore. It regresses behind even the prequels in regards to having a message, something that the Star Wars series has always held over the heads of lesser blockbusters.
All in all, this film didn't deserve to be made. They chose a very bad director for the job. They needed someone who knows how to slow down and breathe, because Star Wars is not defined by its action scenes. Rather it is defined by the quiet scenes. Intimate moments of reflection and wisdom that build both the characters and the audience into better people.
This film was trash.
#232 to #230
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aggronlover (12/22/2015) [-] I strongly disagree with your opinion on the acting and the characters , and I couldn't see any real problems in the writing admittedly because it mainly sticks to an established formula but everyone is entitled their own opinion. I thought the movie had a soul, and to me it was an emotional rollercoaster from start to finish, and the humour was organic. The one point where I agree with you is that the film doesn't have a clear-cut message, but Star Wars is, at it's core, the tale of a classic battle between good and evil and TFA did a good job of carrying that over. It also brings a new and interesting villain with Kylo Ren although I admit that's mostly a matter of personal taste, as there are a good deal of people who didn't like him that much apparently . That's how I feel about the film, and while I enjoy discussing it's pros and cons because in earnest, it did have flaws , I don't think that opinion will change anytime soon.
#234 to #232
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] Well at least you're honest. Enjoy what you want to enjoy and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, just don't let that deafen you to criticism. I've got pretty high standards of what I call 'good' acting. Most people seem to call acting that isn't actually bad 'good' but having worked in the theatre industry for a while now I'm well acquainted with a lot of different kinds of acting and these actors... had nothing to work with.
It is clear from almost every single line delivered in the film that Abrams was running them on a treadmill. The lines are said without a beat being missed. One after the other after the other. He thinks that pouring information onto the viewer is how you create a tense action scene but that directorial style doesn't work here. Even outside of the action scenes the lines are delivered far too quickly and there aren't enough pauses between lines for it to seem like natural conversation. And the editing is incompetent as well.
There is a game called 'The Five Second Rule' where you count how long the shots last. If they don't last over 5 seconds then they lose. This doesn't apply in action scenes. There were a bunch of dialogue scenes that I was counting, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3. There were more shots beneath 5 seconds than over them and that does not allow for establishing a scene.
Actually google the cantina scene from the first Star Wars and see how it is shot. There is a lot of information poured on the viewer but it does not come too fast. It is made clear that Luke is looking around the place and then we get a montage of what he sees and his reactions. This is not a quiet moment, but he isn't talking, the scene allows the audience to drink in the atmosphere. However the cantina in Force Awakens is a hodge-podge of chaos that you just can't get a good mental image of because of how the scene cuts about all over the place.
And whilst Star Wars is about good vs evil, it is not a simple film. Lord of the Rings is a simple story about good vs evil. It is the archetypal fantasy good vs evil story. Star Wars though is about emotions. It is not just good vs evil. It is a heroes journey in the most classical sense. It is a send up to Flash Gordon. Akira Kurosawa (hence why Vader wears a Samurai's Kabuto on his helmet). It is a space opera that says good and evil are not so far away from one-another, and preaches eastern philosophies of animism and mindfulness.
Force Awakens has none of that. The Force is just a thing in the film and is only described in a throw-away line.
I am interested in Ren too, but he was undoubtedly wasted and mis-handled as a character.
The film is a really wasted opportunity, and what is there is undermined by myriad fundamental flaws.
It is clear from almost every single line delivered in the film that Abrams was running them on a treadmill. The lines are said without a beat being missed. One after the other after the other. He thinks that pouring information onto the viewer is how you create a tense action scene but that directorial style doesn't work here. Even outside of the action scenes the lines are delivered far too quickly and there aren't enough pauses between lines for it to seem like natural conversation. And the editing is incompetent as well.
There is a game called 'The Five Second Rule' where you count how long the shots last. If they don't last over 5 seconds then they lose. This doesn't apply in action scenes. There were a bunch of dialogue scenes that I was counting, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3. There were more shots beneath 5 seconds than over them and that does not allow for establishing a scene.
Actually google the cantina scene from the first Star Wars and see how it is shot. There is a lot of information poured on the viewer but it does not come too fast. It is made clear that Luke is looking around the place and then we get a montage of what he sees and his reactions. This is not a quiet moment, but he isn't talking, the scene allows the audience to drink in the atmosphere. However the cantina in Force Awakens is a hodge-podge of chaos that you just can't get a good mental image of because of how the scene cuts about all over the place.
And whilst Star Wars is about good vs evil, it is not a simple film. Lord of the Rings is a simple story about good vs evil. It is the archetypal fantasy good vs evil story. Star Wars though is about emotions. It is not just good vs evil. It is a heroes journey in the most classical sense. It is a send up to Flash Gordon. Akira Kurosawa (hence why Vader wears a Samurai's Kabuto on his helmet). It is a space opera that says good and evil are not so far away from one-another, and preaches eastern philosophies of animism and mindfulness.
Force Awakens has none of that. The Force is just a thing in the film and is only described in a throw-away line.
I am interested in Ren too, but he was undoubtedly wasted and mis-handled as a character.
The film is a really wasted opportunity, and what is there is undermined by myriad fundamental flaws.
#191 to #131
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] To be fair to the film (which is something I rarely do btw) we don't know enough about Ren to call his descent illogical or not yet. I'm fine with the idea, but I do worry about how they're gonna justify it.
And let's be honest with ourselves here. In the canon of the Original Trilogy the Jedi and Sith are relics of a bygone age. Far more-so than the prequels would have us believe. Obi Wan whips out his Lightsaber like it's not even a big deal in the Cantina and nobody questions it. This is a galaxy that has in large part forgotten the existence of a Jedi. Then suddenly out of the shadows comes a supposed Jedi and he outta nowhere blows up the Death Star?! Who is this kid?! Well... unless you were a part of the Resistance between Episodes IV and V the chances are you've never met him because after he disappears to train with Yoda we never see him interacting with people outside of the main cast to any great degree. And given that both of his teachers were reclusive, it's not a surprise that Luke would himself become something of a recluse.
So someone comes out of nowhere, a warrior of an ancient order that shows up, blows up the Death Star, and then supposedly ends up killing Darth Vader AND the Emperor before disappearing back into the aether? I could see that sort of person becoming a myth pretty readily. All sounds a little farfetched and from the looks of it, people on the outskirts of the galaxy really haven't benefitted much from the fall of the Empire so where is this hero now? Maybe he was just propaganda?
Anyway, I predict that time will not be kind to this film. It has a lot of rave reviews right now but it is gonna fall by the wayside quickly and people will start picking it apart big-time. Ultimately the film paid the price for its lack of vision. (And just you wait, there will be memes of that **** sooner or later.)
As for the prequels? Look up 'What if Episode I was good' on youtube. He's done it for all the prequels and they're the headcanon I choose to go by for the prequels, especially as I like the way they blend in with the Clone Wars series, kinda.
And let's be honest with ourselves here. In the canon of the Original Trilogy the Jedi and Sith are relics of a bygone age. Far more-so than the prequels would have us believe. Obi Wan whips out his Lightsaber like it's not even a big deal in the Cantina and nobody questions it. This is a galaxy that has in large part forgotten the existence of a Jedi. Then suddenly out of the shadows comes a supposed Jedi and he outta nowhere blows up the Death Star?! Who is this kid?! Well... unless you were a part of the Resistance between Episodes IV and V the chances are you've never met him because after he disappears to train with Yoda we never see him interacting with people outside of the main cast to any great degree. And given that both of his teachers were reclusive, it's not a surprise that Luke would himself become something of a recluse.
So someone comes out of nowhere, a warrior of an ancient order that shows up, blows up the Death Star, and then supposedly ends up killing Darth Vader AND the Emperor before disappearing back into the aether? I could see that sort of person becoming a myth pretty readily. All sounds a little farfetched and from the looks of it, people on the outskirts of the galaxy really haven't benefitted much from the fall of the Empire so where is this hero now? Maybe he was just propaganda?
Anyway, I predict that time will not be kind to this film. It has a lot of rave reviews right now but it is gonna fall by the wayside quickly and people will start picking it apart big-time. Ultimately the film paid the price for its lack of vision. (And just you wait, there will be memes of that **** sooner or later.)
As for the prequels? Look up 'What if Episode I was good' on youtube. He's done it for all the prequels and they're the headcanon I choose to go by for the prequels, especially as I like the way they blend in with the Clone Wars series, kinda.
#201 to #191
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frenzysalem ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] I'm still pretty worried about how they could possibly justify Ren's descent. I just can't imagine how they could, IF they even address it. However you've convinced me on the whole myth thing. I suppose needlessly whisking away into obscurity is reason for considerable doubt. And I'm sure you're right about this movie. I don't even consider it canon I hate it so much.
#226 to #201
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] It's not bad enough to hate, man. It's just kinda... empty. The film has no vision. The three most distinctive art styles of Star Wars are the Prequels, the Original Trilogy, and the KotOR series, and they use colour and shapes to exploit the limits of their mediums. This film has no limits, and yet it doesn't do anything different visually. It's just kinda 'there'.
The biggest sin a film can commit is being absent of worth, and whilst this film might be empty, it serves as yet another entry in the Star Wars canon that film buffs are going to be raking over for quite some time in order to teach people how -not- to make films, so if nothing else, it's not without some worth.
The biggest sin a film can commit is being absent of worth, and whilst this film might be empty, it serves as yet another entry in the Star Wars canon that film buffs are going to be raking over for quite some time in order to teach people how -not- to make films, so if nothing else, it's not without some worth.
#82 to #52
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
First paragraph: All fair points. I agree there were too many, but that ahrdly ruins it.
Second paragraph: Well, if they addressed it in every other scene, you'd be complaining about that. I thought the one scene was almost too much and too literal, but overall it was well balanced. In fact, I thought it saved the familial relationship between Kylo and Han and the Skywalkers, making him drawn to the dark side because of his grandfather, not just for no reason.
Yeah, FInn and Rey thought he was a myth, but then they meet his best pal Han Solo who tells him that he wasn't a myth. Honestly, this is only 30 years later, and Luke didn't even disappear right away. Amelia Earhart isn't a myth and she disappeared like a century ago.
Third paragraph: You seem to contradict yourself here, seeing the aftermath of the original trilogy is a new perspective, as is humanizing the big bad and the stormtroopers.
Fourth paragraph: I agree it surpasses homage, but I think it stands fine on its own, mostly because of the leads. Is there too much throwback? Yes, unquestionably.
Fifth paragraph: Never played 'em. Well, they work together crawling underneath the floor and Rey saves Finn. I thought their chemistry was pretty good. Is there some minimum number of words before people can be friends?
His very actions in saving Rey is what shows that he's a do-gooder, as does his rescue of Poe ... not quite sure why you think we don't get to see that. That was literally all he did in the first part of the movie. (Was it abrupt? Yeah, but I thought it flowed fine during the viewing.)
I thought the inclusion of Han and Leia as Ren's parents was done very well. Necessary, no? But I thought the emotional situation there was much more compelling than any emotions portrayed in the OT.
C-3PO: superfluous
R2-D2: I get where you're coming from, but it wasn't exactly out of character for Luke.
Having them find Luke in like 5 minutes was hokey, I agree. It should have been left for the next movie.
But that's exactly the point of Ren! He isn't Vader! He's an anger-prone villain, with a lot more depth than Vader. i didn't like him during the movie, but thinking back on it: look at how much room he has to grow. He could redeem himself, or he might not. Like either way is completely believable at this point in the story. I hope he doesn't get redeemed.
Yeah, but he's been shot by the very powerful bowcaster, is in huge emotional distress and has been wounded by Finn. Plus, where would he have dueled another lightsaber wielder before? Luke knows how to build a proper lightsaber (see ROTJ) and so Ren got his saber after he rebelled.
Also Rey is powerful in the force, and lets it flow through her to guide her movements (like Luke with the remote in the Falcon in ANH), whereas Ren, like all darksiders tries to control it. She also had that staff thingy so clearly wasn't incapable of long distance melee combat.
I don't know, he looked pretty unhinged as it was. He didn't kill Hux cause Hux was his best man and a General.
Ren is a brat! He's overconfident and angry.
I mean, I guess that scene would have been funny. It was funny already, I don't know that your version would have added a whole lot beside being incredibly violent.
Second paragraph: Well, if they addressed it in every other scene, you'd be complaining about that. I thought the one scene was almost too much and too literal, but overall it was well balanced. In fact, I thought it saved the familial relationship between Kylo and Han and the Skywalkers, making him drawn to the dark side because of his grandfather, not just for no reason.
Yeah, FInn and Rey thought he was a myth, but then they meet his best pal Han Solo who tells him that he wasn't a myth. Honestly, this is only 30 years later, and Luke didn't even disappear right away. Amelia Earhart isn't a myth and she disappeared like a century ago.
Third paragraph: You seem to contradict yourself here, seeing the aftermath of the original trilogy is a new perspective, as is humanizing the big bad and the stormtroopers.
Fourth paragraph: I agree it surpasses homage, but I think it stands fine on its own, mostly because of the leads. Is there too much throwback? Yes, unquestionably.
Fifth paragraph: Never played 'em. Well, they work together crawling underneath the floor and Rey saves Finn. I thought their chemistry was pretty good. Is there some minimum number of words before people can be friends?
His very actions in saving Rey is what shows that he's a do-gooder, as does his rescue of Poe ... not quite sure why you think we don't get to see that. That was literally all he did in the first part of the movie. (Was it abrupt? Yeah, but I thought it flowed fine during the viewing.)
I thought the inclusion of Han and Leia as Ren's parents was done very well. Necessary, no? But I thought the emotional situation there was much more compelling than any emotions portrayed in the OT.
C-3PO: superfluous
R2-D2: I get where you're coming from, but it wasn't exactly out of character for Luke.
Having them find Luke in like 5 minutes was hokey, I agree. It should have been left for the next movie.
But that's exactly the point of Ren! He isn't Vader! He's an anger-prone villain, with a lot more depth than Vader. i didn't like him during the movie, but thinking back on it: look at how much room he has to grow. He could redeem himself, or he might not. Like either way is completely believable at this point in the story. I hope he doesn't get redeemed.
Yeah, but he's been shot by the very powerful bowcaster, is in huge emotional distress and has been wounded by Finn. Plus, where would he have dueled another lightsaber wielder before? Luke knows how to build a proper lightsaber (see ROTJ) and so Ren got his saber after he rebelled.
Also Rey is powerful in the force, and lets it flow through her to guide her movements (like Luke with the remote in the Falcon in ANH), whereas Ren, like all darksiders tries to control it. She also had that staff thingy so clearly wasn't incapable of long distance melee combat.
I don't know, he looked pretty unhinged as it was. He didn't kill Hux cause Hux was his best man and a General.
Ren is a brat! He's overconfident and angry.
I mean, I guess that scene would have been funny. It was funny already, I don't know that your version would have added a whole lot beside being incredibly violent.
#171 to #82
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thelastelephant (12/22/2015) [-] Anakin was also a brat, but Ren thank **** for this isn't whiny. His issues with his temper makes it a little more believable as to why he's turn to the dark side, where as Anakin did it because...he's a little bitch?
#174 to #173
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thelastelephant (12/22/2015) [-] I'd call that justified
I couldn't really see why Anakin would turn in the first place. To save his marriage? It was fine before he started turning. When he started to turn is where the problems started.
I couldn't really see why Anakin would turn in the first place. To save his marriage? It was fine before he started turning. When he started to turn is where the problems started.
#199 to #174
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
To save his kids.
Remember, he had a vision of his mom dying, and then she died. So when he had a vision of Padme dying in childbirth, he thought the only way to save her was through Plageuis' dark side magic.
Remember, he had a vision of his mom dying, and then she died. So when he had a vision of Padme dying in childbirth, he thought the only way to save her was through Plageuis' dark side magic.
#256 to #171
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gothiczombie (12/22/2015) [-] Anakin dreamed about his mother dying for months before he finally went to check up on her and then she died in his arms. That was a major guilt trip that struck deep, and is also kinda the Jedi council's fault for a) keeping him too busy to go buy his mother’s freedom and b) knowing about his dreams and not mentioning that Jedi can have premonitions so check on your damn mom. Also guilt for leaving her as a slave while he had fun.
So when he dreamed about Padme dying in childbirth he freaked out. With only **** guidance from Yoda(Seriously he know someone close to his is going to die and you tell him to stop caring?) and his previous experience where action would have prevented his prediction he couldn't know that his reaction to the prediction was accounted for in the prediction. With that limited knowledge he accepted the only offer of help he was given (by Palpatine).
His faith in the council was shaken by how they were a)Trying to take power for themselves b)Willing to kill Palpatine for it.
The Jedi council gave ****** up advice whenever Anakin went for guidance and it screwed them. Anakin would never have gone to the dark side if Yoda had sat him down and said “Your visions include your reactions to the visions, so change them you cannot”.
Though depending on how time works that would never happen as Anakin would never turn to the dark side so wouldn't have visions of killing his wife after turning to the dark side
So when he dreamed about Padme dying in childbirth he freaked out. With only **** guidance from Yoda(Seriously he know someone close to his is going to die and you tell him to stop caring?) and his previous experience where action would have prevented his prediction he couldn't know that his reaction to the prediction was accounted for in the prediction. With that limited knowledge he accepted the only offer of help he was given (by Palpatine).
His faith in the council was shaken by how they were a)Trying to take power for themselves b)Willing to kill Palpatine for it.
The Jedi council gave ****** up advice whenever Anakin went for guidance and it screwed them. Anakin would never have gone to the dark side if Yoda had sat him down and said “Your visions include your reactions to the visions, so change them you cannot”.
Though depending on how time works that would never happen as Anakin would never turn to the dark side so wouldn't have visions of killing his wife after turning to the dark side
#189 to #171
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] I'll give you that. He's not whiney, but a brat is still a brat, and if Abrams was gonna sell us Ren then we needed to see him kill someone. In the whole film I can only think of one person he killed. Ren feels like he is holding himself back but if he was ever going to work then he needed either no inhibitions, or he needed it to be clear that his feelings were still keeping his anger in check, and that moment of him killing his father needed to be a moment of transformation where he just learns to let it all loose.
The room should have shaken. Stormtroopers falling over the railings. We should have felt that moment that he stopped being a brat and started being a beast... but we didn't get that moment, because Abrams doesn't know how to Star Wars. The film is woefully lacking in that emotional touch that is necessary for the force to be really sold. As cool as he made it all look and hot damn he made the force look magnificent, we needed more "Do or do not." and less *making lightsaber noises with mouth*
I reckon time and hindsight are gonna tear this film a new one. Seriously, once things calm down and people get over the hype and really start thinking about the film all they're gonna see is the mis-steps, the missed opportunities, the bad editing, and the unnecessary homages. Even with the prequels Lucas managed to make a world that was inspired by classic fiction. Flash Gordon. Metropolis. Blade Runner. Etc. But the only thing that inspired TFA is Star Wars itself... and you can really see how much the film... (and I promise you this is going to be a phrase almost ubiquitous with this film in a few years time)... pays the price for it's lack of vision.
The room should have shaken. Stormtroopers falling over the railings. We should have felt that moment that he stopped being a brat and started being a beast... but we didn't get that moment, because Abrams doesn't know how to Star Wars. The film is woefully lacking in that emotional touch that is necessary for the force to be really sold. As cool as he made it all look and hot damn he made the force look magnificent, we needed more "Do or do not." and less *making lightsaber noises with mouth*
I reckon time and hindsight are gonna tear this film a new one. Seriously, once things calm down and people get over the hype and really start thinking about the film all they're gonna see is the mis-steps, the missed opportunities, the bad editing, and the unnecessary homages. Even with the prequels Lucas managed to make a world that was inspired by classic fiction. Flash Gordon. Metropolis. Blade Runner. Etc. But the only thing that inspired TFA is Star Wars itself... and you can really see how much the film... (and I promise you this is going to be a phrase almost ubiquitous with this film in a few years time)... pays the price for it's lack of vision.
#92 to #82
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] 1) Ruins? No. But it means the film has little to no identity in and of itself. It borrows far too much.
2) Well yeah, but if they addressed it in I dunno... two or three scenes that'd be fine. There's a middle-ground between under and over-using a plot point known as just using the plot point. And I didn't say Kylo went dark for no reason.
3) It might seem that way to you but it's not. Seeing the aftermath is cool, seeing the same story-beats repeated is not. One is a new perspective, the other is the same perspective.
4) The leads? Honestly, I expect a lot more out of characters than just 'existing' in the film, but hey I get that I'm kinda picky so if they're enough for you then good for you, man. I would have enjoyed seeing them in more depth instead of Han Solo taking the spotlight.
5) Minimum for friends? No. Minimum for "I'm going to risk my life for this person as though I've known them for ages?" yes. There are many reasons to risk your life for someone, and you don't need to know them for long to do so, but you have to embrace the reason you're doing it otherwise it is just forced, and he the only reason we get is... just 'cause.
His rescue with Poe is as much self-serving as it is generous. It shows he's a good guy but not that he does good for the sake of doing it. The first time we see him going above and beyond for someone is when he goes to save Rey.
6) I think them being his parents was also a nice touch, but it is the execution (no pun intended) that failed. We are expected to care about these characters because they are Han and Leia, not because they present any compelling reason in the actual film to care. Again the film is relying on nostalgia to carry it forwards.
R2-D2? I'll give you that. Luke as he is portrayed would probably leave R2 behind. I mean... he's on an island. What is the little guy gonna do? But R2 didn't need to be in the film. Since they went to a rebel base it was okay but R2 wasn't necessary to the plot.
7) More depth? Eh... no. But he is more anger-prone and as I've stated a lot already I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is the fact that he is angry without being intimidating. When he uses the force he is fukken scary, but when he actually gets angry all he does is scream and destroy **** . He needed to be more like the Joker or Vas from Farcry. Whenever you are around these characters you fear for your life because they can and will snap on a moment's notice, but if Ren snaps all it means is the scenery's gonna get ****** up.
Where would he have duelled ano- he basically destroyed the new Jedi order single-handedly, man. He's a big ******* deal. And being shot with the bowcaster? It was really ******* cool seeing him hurting himself throughout the fight to make himself angry. That was a great touch. But it did **** all for him because this Day 1 Jedi punks him like he's not even a threat. Yes, Ray demonstrates being calm, but the fact is that she destroys Ren big-time in the fight, and this guy is supposed to be a big ******* deal.
And yes, he is a Brat... and I'm not scared of brats. I don't give a damn about brats. The version I proposed adds the violence... because that is what this sort of character NEEDS. They NEED to demonstrate that they are a threat to the people around them. Why does The Joker kill a guy with a pencil? Because BOOM! Immediately the audience gets what this guy is about. Ren? He just ***** **** up when he gets mad. He's not dangerous, he's hilarious.
2) Well yeah, but if they addressed it in I dunno... two or three scenes that'd be fine. There's a middle-ground between under and over-using a plot point known as just using the plot point. And I didn't say Kylo went dark for no reason.
3) It might seem that way to you but it's not. Seeing the aftermath is cool, seeing the same story-beats repeated is not. One is a new perspective, the other is the same perspective.
4) The leads? Honestly, I expect a lot more out of characters than just 'existing' in the film, but hey I get that I'm kinda picky so if they're enough for you then good for you, man. I would have enjoyed seeing them in more depth instead of Han Solo taking the spotlight.
5) Minimum for friends? No. Minimum for "I'm going to risk my life for this person as though I've known them for ages?" yes. There are many reasons to risk your life for someone, and you don't need to know them for long to do so, but you have to embrace the reason you're doing it otherwise it is just forced, and he the only reason we get is... just 'cause.
His rescue with Poe is as much self-serving as it is generous. It shows he's a good guy but not that he does good for the sake of doing it. The first time we see him going above and beyond for someone is when he goes to save Rey.
6) I think them being his parents was also a nice touch, but it is the execution (no pun intended) that failed. We are expected to care about these characters because they are Han and Leia, not because they present any compelling reason in the actual film to care. Again the film is relying on nostalgia to carry it forwards.
R2-D2? I'll give you that. Luke as he is portrayed would probably leave R2 behind. I mean... he's on an island. What is the little guy gonna do? But R2 didn't need to be in the film. Since they went to a rebel base it was okay but R2 wasn't necessary to the plot.
7) More depth? Eh... no. But he is more anger-prone and as I've stated a lot already I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is the fact that he is angry without being intimidating. When he uses the force he is fukken scary, but when he actually gets angry all he does is scream and destroy **** . He needed to be more like the Joker or Vas from Farcry. Whenever you are around these characters you fear for your life because they can and will snap on a moment's notice, but if Ren snaps all it means is the scenery's gonna get ****** up.
Where would he have duelled ano- he basically destroyed the new Jedi order single-handedly, man. He's a big ******* deal. And being shot with the bowcaster? It was really ******* cool seeing him hurting himself throughout the fight to make himself angry. That was a great touch. But it did **** all for him because this Day 1 Jedi punks him like he's not even a threat. Yes, Ray demonstrates being calm, but the fact is that she destroys Ren big-time in the fight, and this guy is supposed to be a big ******* deal.
And yes, he is a Brat... and I'm not scared of brats. I don't give a damn about brats. The version I proposed adds the violence... because that is what this sort of character NEEDS. They NEED to demonstrate that they are a threat to the people around them. Why does The Joker kill a guy with a pencil? Because BOOM! Immediately the audience gets what this guy is about. Ren? He just ***** **** up when he gets mad. He's not dangerous, he's hilarious.
#120 to #92
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
2) I think they used it just fine. What would you have added? I know you didn't, I didn't mean to imply you did, I meant from a story-telling perspective it was done okay.
3) I don't disagree.
4) I dunno both Finn and Rey showed the possibility for growth, they're both brand-new to the situation, so it's okay that they kinda wander around befuddled. Do you really think he took the spotlight? He did good as a mentor character like Ben Kenobi.
5) Rey was the only person who showed him humanity, besides Poe. Everyone else outranked him, he was just a grunt. Yeah, it was kinda hokey, but she did get him off Jakku, after all. You could say he owed her that.
6) I disagree that it failed, and at the very least Leia was more convincing than Han about being upset. I think it was pretty compelling, as things go. Luke and Leia were both unquestionably "good," and so for their son to turn is terrible. It's better than Spock showing up in 2009 Star Trek for no goddamned reason.
TFA reuses too much from the OT, but at least we are presented a reason to care, rather than just "look, here's Han!"
7) Darth Vader in ANH was entirely one-dimensional: evil. Palpatine was so megalomaniacally evil it was almost a cartoon. Remember when he flat out yells Unlimited powah! when he's fighting Mace?
I disagree, the Joker was the head honcho (haven't played Far Cry), and could do whatever he wants. Would Snoke have trained him if he killed everyone around him at a moment's anger? Maybe killing someone Vader-like would have been apropos, but that would be another parallel, which would only weaken the film, which is the crux of your argument.
8) We don't know how he destroyed the new Jedi order, maybe it was bombs or some **** .
Was his defeat at Rey's hand kinda silly? Yeah, but stuff like that happens in almost every movie. As far as I recall, Rey was on the defensive most of the time, until she gets lucky. And that happens all the time in fiction. Trope? Yes.
I don't know about destroying him "big time," that would be like the end of ROTS. She doesn't even cut off a limb.
9) Well that sounds like your opinion, man. We've already had a bad guy who kills all his underlings if they **** up. Pulling in a random stormtrooper and killing him out of anger? That would, imo be rather gratuitous. It isn't his fault. Basically, I don't think Snoke would keep around someone who is actually psychotic.
I don't know about you, but I never laughed at Ren's "hilarious" antics.
3) I don't disagree.
4) I dunno both Finn and Rey showed the possibility for growth, they're both brand-new to the situation, so it's okay that they kinda wander around befuddled. Do you really think he took the spotlight? He did good as a mentor character like Ben Kenobi.
5) Rey was the only person who showed him humanity, besides Poe. Everyone else outranked him, he was just a grunt. Yeah, it was kinda hokey, but she did get him off Jakku, after all. You could say he owed her that.
6) I disagree that it failed, and at the very least Leia was more convincing than Han about being upset. I think it was pretty compelling, as things go. Luke and Leia were both unquestionably "good," and so for their son to turn is terrible. It's better than Spock showing up in 2009 Star Trek for no goddamned reason.
TFA reuses too much from the OT, but at least we are presented a reason to care, rather than just "look, here's Han!"
7) Darth Vader in ANH was entirely one-dimensional: evil. Palpatine was so megalomaniacally evil it was almost a cartoon. Remember when he flat out yells Unlimited powah! when he's fighting Mace?
I disagree, the Joker was the head honcho (haven't played Far Cry), and could do whatever he wants. Would Snoke have trained him if he killed everyone around him at a moment's anger? Maybe killing someone Vader-like would have been apropos, but that would be another parallel, which would only weaken the film, which is the crux of your argument.
8) We don't know how he destroyed the new Jedi order, maybe it was bombs or some **** .
Was his defeat at Rey's hand kinda silly? Yeah, but stuff like that happens in almost every movie. As far as I recall, Rey was on the defensive most of the time, until she gets lucky. And that happens all the time in fiction. Trope? Yes.
I don't know about destroying him "big time," that would be like the end of ROTS. She doesn't even cut off a limb.
9) Well that sounds like your opinion, man. We've already had a bad guy who kills all his underlings if they **** up. Pulling in a random stormtrooper and killing him out of anger? That would, imo be rather gratuitous. It isn't his fault. Basically, I don't think Snoke would keep around someone who is actually psychotic.
I don't know about you, but I never laughed at Ren's "hilarious" antics.
#79 to #52
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akkere (12/22/2015) [-] I agree that the movie does lack in trying to establish any kind of identity or make any attempt at forming its own impression. Though I disagree with the notion of calling the allusions outright "copy/pastes", I do agree there are some fundamental redundancies.
Jakku's actually a very big complaint for me. It would be one thing if they showed the planet as having its own species, subculture, or some underlying notion that this is a unique planet, but the only thing we really see that's unique from the referential planet of Tattooine is the mechanical mounts (though I wouldn't the creative attempt entirely).
I'm mixed on the relevance of the original trilogy cast and their place in this film. In many ways, I think it's a solid reference to the Expanded Universe, which not only focused entirely on this cast of characters, but also gave them a predictable sense of invincibility that kind of nullified you from any sense of danger (though this didn't abstain from developing these pre-established characters). While I place a strong negative in hyping characters that have near- signal digit screen time minutes, I also place a strong positive in the death of Han for showing that the films aren't going to fall to the burden of having to put an insane invincibility on the main guys.
Kylo Ren was a bit of a disappointment for me, but not a total disappointment for the First Order antagonist element. I was really hoping Kylo Ren's persona would be that of a unique kind of dark-sider; someone who wasn't obsessed with thrashing their emotions about and was actually tactile with their abilities; picture if you took off Vader's mask and there was Thrawn. I find his quick defeat at the hands of untrained Rey even more peculiar, especially when his whole character hinges on him being the guy that 1v100s Luke's Jedi academy while Luke couldn't do **** (which kills me, because Luke's character was literally my childhood hero throughout the entire Legends EU).
However, I am intrigued by the character of Snoke, because what I thought Kylo Ren was going to be, Snoke seems to fill the placeholder. We know he's a darksider who's trained Kylo, and one who carries himself with a calm manner that you wouldn't expect from someone who carried a dude as emotionally unchained as Ren under their tutelage. There's probably some kind of link between Snoke being Ren's master and Ren's utter defeat that might lead to the events of the next film, but I do ultimately agree that the fight should've been much more better matched than the way it was presented. However, I'd also assume that Rey is something of a super powered force user on the same magnitude as pre-prosthetic Anakin Skywalker, perhaps even moreso, and perhaps that will be explained in the later films as well.
The hardest thing this series has to overcome is trying to satisfy fans that were very familiar with the old and canned expanded universe, and fans that were completely unaware of it, and I feel like this film was an attempt at settling this problem by paying an homage to both film and non-canon book, while setting some very subtle seeds to for future originality. It doesn't impress any strong degree of originality right away, but hopefully the next film will expand on some things more.
Jakku's actually a very big complaint for me. It would be one thing if they showed the planet as having its own species, subculture, or some underlying notion that this is a unique planet, but the only thing we really see that's unique from the referential planet of Tattooine is the mechanical mounts (though I wouldn't the creative attempt entirely).
I'm mixed on the relevance of the original trilogy cast and their place in this film. In many ways, I think it's a solid reference to the Expanded Universe, which not only focused entirely on this cast of characters, but also gave them a predictable sense of invincibility that kind of nullified you from any sense of danger (though this didn't abstain from developing these pre-established characters). While I place a strong negative in hyping characters that have near- signal digit screen time minutes, I also place a strong positive in the death of Han for showing that the films aren't going to fall to the burden of having to put an insane invincibility on the main guys.
Kylo Ren was a bit of a disappointment for me, but not a total disappointment for the First Order antagonist element. I was really hoping Kylo Ren's persona would be that of a unique kind of dark-sider; someone who wasn't obsessed with thrashing their emotions about and was actually tactile with their abilities; picture if you took off Vader's mask and there was Thrawn. I find his quick defeat at the hands of untrained Rey even more peculiar, especially when his whole character hinges on him being the guy that 1v100s Luke's Jedi academy while Luke couldn't do **** (which kills me, because Luke's character was literally my childhood hero throughout the entire Legends EU).
However, I am intrigued by the character of Snoke, because what I thought Kylo Ren was going to be, Snoke seems to fill the placeholder. We know he's a darksider who's trained Kylo, and one who carries himself with a calm manner that you wouldn't expect from someone who carried a dude as emotionally unchained as Ren under their tutelage. There's probably some kind of link between Snoke being Ren's master and Ren's utter defeat that might lead to the events of the next film, but I do ultimately agree that the fight should've been much more better matched than the way it was presented. However, I'd also assume that Rey is something of a super powered force user on the same magnitude as pre-prosthetic Anakin Skywalker, perhaps even moreso, and perhaps that will be explained in the later films as well.
The hardest thing this series has to overcome is trying to satisfy fans that were very familiar with the old and canned expanded universe, and fans that were completely unaware of it, and I feel like this film was an attempt at settling this problem by paying an homage to both film and non-canon book, while setting some very subtle seeds to for future originality. It doesn't impress any strong degree of originality right away, but hopefully the next film will expand on some things more.
#87 to #79
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] Credit where it is due, I don't mind Han dying. I'm perfectly happy with that and I'm glad he's dead because he does more for the films dead than he did alive. However, he didn't die like Han Solo. Han Solo's most famous line is "I know." He quips. He is a clever guy. I wouldn't even have minded no quips if he had actually acted in some way like Han Solo when confronting Kylo. Hell, if he had been like Han and actually tried a quip or to schmooze with Kylo the killing would have been even more justified because maybe that is one of the things he hates about his father?
But no... Han just dies like a bitch.
I wouldn't mind Kylo being a more brash and hot-headed antagonist tbh since we've not seen one of those in the films before. We've had Count Dookie, Wibbles the magical red pineapple, Darth "The Godfather" Vader, and The "Lightning Fingers" Emperor. All of them were pretty tame guys but Kylo? I'd love to see this guy just being a well of unconfined rage. It appeared in the EU a fair bit but we're talking film here.
Snoke did intrigue me but not enough to save the film for me. And whatever the film was intended to be it still results in 1/3rd of the trilogy at the very least being not worth a repeat viewing because there really isn't much in this film besides BB-8 worth re-watching it for.
But no... Han just dies like a bitch.
I wouldn't mind Kylo being a more brash and hot-headed antagonist tbh since we've not seen one of those in the films before. We've had Count Dookie, Wibbles the magical red pineapple, Darth "The Godfather" Vader, and The "Lightning Fingers" Emperor. All of them were pretty tame guys but Kylo? I'd love to see this guy just being a well of unconfined rage. It appeared in the EU a fair bit but we're talking film here.
Snoke did intrigue me but not enough to save the film for me. And whatever the film was intended to be it still results in 1/3rd of the trilogy at the very least being not worth a repeat viewing because there really isn't much in this film besides BB-8 worth re-watching it for.
#98 to #87
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akkere (12/22/2015) [-] I think the general (and unfortunate) idea with Han's quippery being severely reduced is due to the fact that he's gotten old, wiser, and probably more depressed. He's seen a lot in the years and it's taken its toll - and it's exactly that which I think is the film's greatest flaw. We've time skipped a great deal and there's no telling how characters have truly changed and what to expect. It was one thing for the prequels to original trilogy because everything is more straight-forwardly predictable; Hermits like Kenobi and Yoda would be somewhat delirious due to their isolation but noticeably in remorse for the past. Anakin becomes a melting pot of rage because his wife died (probably doesn't help his dick burned off too). But when Return of the Jedi ends, it ends on this note of uncertainty that only the depth of numerous books could cover, books of which covered character development arcs for people like Han Solo, who at one point became an incredibly bitter guy for a short time because of the loss of Chewie. Timeskips are very risky when they're followed up with the original characters in film, because there's simply not enough depth to cover the necessary developments in character.
I think Kylo Ren's development is going to work out similarly to Anakin Skywalker's initial development; get teeth kicked in for a good fight or two, then git gud and become something actually worthy of the titles of fear/astonishment. I'd like to see a Sith actually engage in the complete opposite spectrum of emotion (though I'd argue Vader was pretty close to being unconfined rage in his own way), but I'd also like to see a genuine motive behind the rage. If he's just doing it to be an angsty Sith, the character's kind of lost to the same tropes as the dime-a-dozen darksiders.
I'd still rewatch the film many times (especially on a high resolution screen TV) because I really like the references the film has to the other side of the universe of Star Wars, something George never really came to fully accept except closer to the third prequel film when he realized there was some strong content there, and started adapting some characters to the film (granted, he basically killed them all, so the interpretation's still open there). But the next few films are definitely going to need to pick up their feet and step out of Homage city and start cultivating films worth contributing homages to on their own.
#187 to #98
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] You touched on the notion of a time skip and I'd like to point something out in regards to that.
A time-skip is more than just a push forwards in time. It is a narrative break. It is a hiccup in the flow of the narrative and the narrative from one side to the other is noticeably different. The bigger the gap, the bigger the difference. E.G: There is a gap between Empire and Jedi wherein Luke clearly learns how to be a proper Jedi (there's even a deleted scene of him assembling his Lightsaber before entering Jaba's palace). As a character before the skip he was always in near-white. After the skip he is always in near-black but at the end of the film his clothes come open to reveal the white that was underneath. It is a visual thematic device that you might not have noticed, but your brain did.
A bigger skip would be the prequels and the Original Series and there you see the full effect of a big skip. Everything changes. The visual style, the narrative style, the themes, the characters, the dynamics. Despite all of the prequels' failings you can point to you can't fault their focus on the skip. Original Series is grimy and filthy and broken. It is a world that has been destroyed whilst in the Prequels even Tatooine is shown in a more vibrant and energetic light, showing the galaxy before it had fallen, and perhaps even accidentally it demonstrates the sterile nature of the Republic through those crisp, unnatural CGI visuals that reflects the impotency of the world to postpone its own downfall.
So pre was about built. OT was about broken. This new skip should have been about rebuilding. We should have seen a world that was putting itself back together... and yet what we got was Episode IV part II.
The First Order are the Empire. The only thing that looks even slightly different is the Stormtroopers. Part of what makes Star Wars as visually powerful a series as it is is that it works around its visual limitations and those limits create distinct visuals. Even going as far back as KotOR those hot browns, earthy colours, and blocky, chunky graphics demonstrated a look that was unquestionably Star Wars, but one that felt old, almost sepia-toned compared to what was to come.
But here? It's just high-res OT. Nothing of note has changed. The resistance is just the Rebellion. Whereas we should have seen them building themselves a proper base in a city or something they're still in a nondescript bunker somewhere. Instead of seeing their tech develop they're still using the same old gear. The same for the Order. The same old Tie Fighters. The ONLY evidence that a time-skip has even happened is that some of the characters look older.
J.J. Abrams is many things, but he is not a visual storyteller. His editing in this film was choppy and hyperactive even when outside of the action scenes, whereas when you really look back at Lucas' work he was ALL visuals, and that is a large part of the Star Wars formula that Abrams simply can not deliver on, because he doesn't understand it.
A time-skip is more than just a push forwards in time. It is a narrative break. It is a hiccup in the flow of the narrative and the narrative from one side to the other is noticeably different. The bigger the gap, the bigger the difference. E.G: There is a gap between Empire and Jedi wherein Luke clearly learns how to be a proper Jedi (there's even a deleted scene of him assembling his Lightsaber before entering Jaba's palace). As a character before the skip he was always in near-white. After the skip he is always in near-black but at the end of the film his clothes come open to reveal the white that was underneath. It is a visual thematic device that you might not have noticed, but your brain did.
A bigger skip would be the prequels and the Original Series and there you see the full effect of a big skip. Everything changes. The visual style, the narrative style, the themes, the characters, the dynamics. Despite all of the prequels' failings you can point to you can't fault their focus on the skip. Original Series is grimy and filthy and broken. It is a world that has been destroyed whilst in the Prequels even Tatooine is shown in a more vibrant and energetic light, showing the galaxy before it had fallen, and perhaps even accidentally it demonstrates the sterile nature of the Republic through those crisp, unnatural CGI visuals that reflects the impotency of the world to postpone its own downfall.
So pre was about built. OT was about broken. This new skip should have been about rebuilding. We should have seen a world that was putting itself back together... and yet what we got was Episode IV part II.
The First Order are the Empire. The only thing that looks even slightly different is the Stormtroopers. Part of what makes Star Wars as visually powerful a series as it is is that it works around its visual limitations and those limits create distinct visuals. Even going as far back as KotOR those hot browns, earthy colours, and blocky, chunky graphics demonstrated a look that was unquestionably Star Wars, but one that felt old, almost sepia-toned compared to what was to come.
But here? It's just high-res OT. Nothing of note has changed. The resistance is just the Rebellion. Whereas we should have seen them building themselves a proper base in a city or something they're still in a nondescript bunker somewhere. Instead of seeing their tech develop they're still using the same old gear. The same for the Order. The same old Tie Fighters. The ONLY evidence that a time-skip has even happened is that some of the characters look older.
J.J. Abrams is many things, but he is not a visual storyteller. His editing in this film was choppy and hyperactive even when outside of the action scenes, whereas when you really look back at Lucas' work he was ALL visuals, and that is a large part of the Star Wars formula that Abrams simply can not deliver on, because he doesn't understand it.
#202 to #187
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
You make a very good point about Lucas' visual work. I didn't think about that, and that probably explains my uncomfortable "somethings not right" feeling duirng the movie.
#229 to #202
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questionableferret (12/22/2015) [-] Then I'll go into detail.
The Original Series was limited by its budget and the technology of the age, hence it made things dark and grungey and grimey and arid. There wasn't much work that needed to go into those sets with a few exceptions being the Falcon, etc. The miniatures were sharp and angular, because it was easier to make them in those sorts of shapes and manipulate them, whereas sleek curves would have been difficult to craft properly. The best example is the so-called 'Popcorn Explosions' which are mostly white with sparks instead of the deep hues of red and orange that are typically associated with explosions these days. The explosion of the Death Star alone is distinct for that.
The same is true of the sound design. Notably limited and completely distinct as a result.
The Prequels were limited by Lucas's vanity. He was so consumed with creating a visual masterpiece that he created a narrative wasteland, and yet at the same time he didn't exactly fail in the masterpiece thing. Those films will always look distinct. You can tell a shot from those films by just the effects alone.
The Knights of the Old Republic series were building on the Original X-Box (I think, if not the early X-Box 360) and it's Playstation counterparts. It was limited by the technology and so it went with geometric shapes like the Original Series did, only this art style favoured thick, chunky, blocky designs because they were easier to render and model for. The browns and earthy tones used in the series give a feeling of almost sepia-tone, it feels like it truly did take place a long time in the past, even though if you changed around a few colours you could easily convince someone that these were events happening at the same time as the Original Trilogy.
But Abrams did nothing but change the Stormtroopers a little. Everything else is just higher res Original Series design, and as I pointed out those designs were chosen because they were easy to work with. The Tie Fighter flying around in the hanger looked freaking stupid. Those huge, flat wings and the little beady cockpit. It doesn't look like an actual space-ship. The smart thing to have done would have been to update them to effectively take advantage of the massive budget. Fold those wings over a little like Darth Vader's fighter looked like. Make it look like the technology has evolved as much in the film as it has behind the camera.
Star Wars is as much a visual story as it is an audio one, and I tell you what I bet you could watch A New Hope with the sound off and still figure out all of the story beats on your own, because the film took its time and paid respect to the visuals. It didn't have much to work with so it made the most out of them. That one shot of Luke and the twin suns is one of the most iconic images in film history because despite how simple the effect, you feel the emotional weight of that moment.
Abrams was a very bad choice of director. I was concerned at the time, given that he turned Star Trek (a series about exploration and ethical dilemmas) into a blockbuster action film devoid of moral quandary, and now he's done more or less the same to Star Wars.
A shame, but J.J. isn't George Lucas, and he didn't even try to be, and ultimately it seems he has paid the price for his lack of vision. (I swear that phrase will become synonymous with this film in a few years time.)
The Original Series was limited by its budget and the technology of the age, hence it made things dark and grungey and grimey and arid. There wasn't much work that needed to go into those sets with a few exceptions being the Falcon, etc. The miniatures were sharp and angular, because it was easier to make them in those sorts of shapes and manipulate them, whereas sleek curves would have been difficult to craft properly. The best example is the so-called 'Popcorn Explosions' which are mostly white with sparks instead of the deep hues of red and orange that are typically associated with explosions these days. The explosion of the Death Star alone is distinct for that.
The same is true of the sound design. Notably limited and completely distinct as a result.
The Prequels were limited by Lucas's vanity. He was so consumed with creating a visual masterpiece that he created a narrative wasteland, and yet at the same time he didn't exactly fail in the masterpiece thing. Those films will always look distinct. You can tell a shot from those films by just the effects alone.
The Knights of the Old Republic series were building on the Original X-Box (I think, if not the early X-Box 360) and it's Playstation counterparts. It was limited by the technology and so it went with geometric shapes like the Original Series did, only this art style favoured thick, chunky, blocky designs because they were easier to render and model for. The browns and earthy tones used in the series give a feeling of almost sepia-tone, it feels like it truly did take place a long time in the past, even though if you changed around a few colours you could easily convince someone that these were events happening at the same time as the Original Trilogy.
But Abrams did nothing but change the Stormtroopers a little. Everything else is just higher res Original Series design, and as I pointed out those designs were chosen because they were easy to work with. The Tie Fighter flying around in the hanger looked freaking stupid. Those huge, flat wings and the little beady cockpit. It doesn't look like an actual space-ship. The smart thing to have done would have been to update them to effectively take advantage of the massive budget. Fold those wings over a little like Darth Vader's fighter looked like. Make it look like the technology has evolved as much in the film as it has behind the camera.
Star Wars is as much a visual story as it is an audio one, and I tell you what I bet you could watch A New Hope with the sound off and still figure out all of the story beats on your own, because the film took its time and paid respect to the visuals. It didn't have much to work with so it made the most out of them. That one shot of Luke and the twin suns is one of the most iconic images in film history because despite how simple the effect, you feel the emotional weight of that moment.
Abrams was a very bad choice of director. I was concerned at the time, given that he turned Star Trek (a series about exploration and ethical dilemmas) into a blockbuster action film devoid of moral quandary, and now he's done more or less the same to Star Wars.
A shame, but J.J. isn't George Lucas, and he didn't even try to be, and ultimately it seems he has paid the price for his lack of vision. (I swear that phrase will become synonymous with this film in a few years time.)
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
Yeah, the style of filmmaking was totally different, the speed of cuts felt so modern compared to the old ones, especially since I had watched them leading up to TFA.
God, I hate what Abrams did to Star Trek.
Although, in the TIE fighter's defense, the First Order seemed very concerned with emulating the Empire, so perhaps that's why
God, I hate what Abrams did to Star Trek.
Although, in the TIE fighter's defense, the First Order seemed very concerned with emulating the Empire, so perhaps that's why
#316 to #306
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questionableferret (12/23/2015) [-] Quick cuts aren't 'modern' as even modern films can be slow and contemplative at times. It's just ADHD direction.
I don't mind the new Star Trek, but I still want it to be smarter and start justifying its existence with some messages. However, there's a new series of Star Trek coming so here's hoping that'll be more TNG and less J.J. A.
That is an explanation, not a justification. If the in-world logic of your film is such that it becomes a detriment to the film as a piece of art and that is not exclusively the point of making those decisions then you're doing it wrong.
I don't mind the new Star Trek, but I still want it to be smarter and start justifying its existence with some messages. However, there's a new series of Star Trek coming so here's hoping that'll be more TNG and less J.J. A.
That is an explanation, not a justification. If the in-world logic of your film is such that it becomes a detriment to the film as a piece of art and that is not exclusively the point of making those decisions then you're doing it wrong.
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sacrilegious (12/23/2015) [-]
Well, modern action cinematography, at least.\
What about the Star Destroyer, the X-Wings, and BB-8? All those showed evolution, and the TIE fighters did look different, with white wings and two seats including rear cannons.
Why do you think it looked silly? At least it doesn't have literal wings like the X-Wings.
You seem to have a very specific vision for TFA that any tiny deviation from is a complete and utter failure from your point of view.
What about the Star Destroyer, the X-Wings, and BB-8? All those showed evolution, and the TIE fighters did look different, with white wings and two seats including rear cannons.
Why do you think it looked silly? At least it doesn't have literal wings like the X-Wings.
You seem to have a very specific vision for TFA that any tiny deviation from is a complete and utter failure from your point of view.
#324 to #322
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questionableferret (12/23/2015) [-] They showed evolution in the sense that the iphone has evolved over time. They are the same devices refined and improved, however that is not an evolution of style or iconography. A clearer example would be the difference between the ships used in the prequels and The Original Series.
Republic Cruiser:
img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/databank_republicattackcruiser_01_169_812f153d.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1560%2C878&width=768
Became Star Destroyer:
img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121223231202/disney/images/a/a8/ImpStarDestroyer-SWI125.jpg
Clearly born from a similar design but time has made very distinct changes to that design. It highlights the change in regime through the colours and shapes, with the former being more colourful and inspiring and the other being grim and foreboding.
Then you see the Republic Fighter:
You need to login to view this link
That became the X-Wing:
courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse455/08wi/projects/project3/web/artifacts/jonobird-ncall/artifact/xw1.jpg
Demonstrating that the ships the rebels are using are actually far older technology than the new-fangled Tie ships. It is visual storytelling after the fact and something that even at his worst Lucas paid a good deal of mind to, because it came naturally to him. More than that you can see how the style of the films changed, with the Prequel ships being sleeker and rounded, less blocky and more colourful as the technology being used to render them evolved from the modelling of the original trilogy. It is art evolving over the ages.
The same amount of time has passed and the same amount of design should have been implemented in how the First Order styled itself. Thirty odd years have gone by and the only visible change to have really occurred is the Stormtroopers have new helmets. We're talking style, as opposed to function here. The pure visual style has only gained further detail. It feels like these are the same assets produced in a different form instead of what they should be, an evolution of the technology over 30 years.
This New Order is just the Empire. We see nothing and are told nothing to imply that this order has significantly less control over the galaxy. We are told that a republic exists somewhere but the extent to which we see that is marbles in the sky getting shot by a laser beam.
This is narrative 101: Show don't tell.
We are told that the New Order is different but it's not shown to us that it is. We're told this takes place in the future but the only indicator of that passage of time is the fact that Harrison Ford is old. In a series that has built its name off of striking visuals to the extent that the first shot in the first film conveys everything you need to know about the dynamic between the Rebels and the Empire without words.
And of course X-Wings have wings. Same reason they shoot little blobs of light instead of laser beams. Same reason there is sound in space, and explosions too. Because Star Wars is concerned about visuals over logic. The movies 'FEEL' their way through the narrative more than they think it. From the first note of the score when the title appears on the screen to the nonsensical trench-run to Harrison Ford coming in out of nowhere to save the day.
I don't have a specific vision of what TFA should be, and it is wrong of you to assume or criticise that. I have a vision of what Star Wars 'is'. What is at the core of the series from its narrative cues to its stylistic influences to its moral centre. The traits that define the series.
TFA failed not because it did not become a Star Wars film. TFA failed because it didn't even try. Once again, it paid the price for it's lack of vision, and completely misunderstood what it is that defines Star Wars as a series.
Republic Cruiser:
img.lum.dolimg.com/v1/images/databank_republicattackcruiser_01_169_812f153d.jpeg?region=0%2C0%2C1560%2C878&width=768
Became Star Destroyer:
img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121223231202/disney/images/a/a8/ImpStarDestroyer-SWI125.jpg
Clearly born from a similar design but time has made very distinct changes to that design. It highlights the change in regime through the colours and shapes, with the former being more colourful and inspiring and the other being grim and foreboding.
Then you see the Republic Fighter:
You need to login to view this link
That became the X-Wing:
courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse455/08wi/projects/project3/web/artifacts/jonobird-ncall/artifact/xw1.jpg
Demonstrating that the ships the rebels are using are actually far older technology than the new-fangled Tie ships. It is visual storytelling after the fact and something that even at his worst Lucas paid a good deal of mind to, because it came naturally to him. More than that you can see how the style of the films changed, with the Prequel ships being sleeker and rounded, less blocky and more colourful as the technology being used to render them evolved from the modelling of the original trilogy. It is art evolving over the ages.
The same amount of time has passed and the same amount of design should have been implemented in how the First Order styled itself. Thirty odd years have gone by and the only visible change to have really occurred is the Stormtroopers have new helmets. We're talking style, as opposed to function here. The pure visual style has only gained further detail. It feels like these are the same assets produced in a different form instead of what they should be, an evolution of the technology over 30 years.
This New Order is just the Empire. We see nothing and are told nothing to imply that this order has significantly less control over the galaxy. We are told that a republic exists somewhere but the extent to which we see that is marbles in the sky getting shot by a laser beam.
This is narrative 101: Show don't tell.
We are told that the New Order is different but it's not shown to us that it is. We're told this takes place in the future but the only indicator of that passage of time is the fact that Harrison Ford is old. In a series that has built its name off of striking visuals to the extent that the first shot in the first film conveys everything you need to know about the dynamic between the Rebels and the Empire without words.
And of course X-Wings have wings. Same reason they shoot little blobs of light instead of laser beams. Same reason there is sound in space, and explosions too. Because Star Wars is concerned about visuals over logic. The movies 'FEEL' their way through the narrative more than they think it. From the first note of the score when the title appears on the screen to the nonsensical trench-run to Harrison Ford coming in out of nowhere to save the day.
I don't have a specific vision of what TFA should be, and it is wrong of you to assume or criticise that. I have a vision of what Star Wars 'is'. What is at the core of the series from its narrative cues to its stylistic influences to its moral centre. The traits that define the series.
TFA failed not because it did not become a Star Wars film. TFA failed because it didn't even try. Once again, it paid the price for it's lack of vision, and completely misunderstood what it is that defines Star Wars as a series.
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
Is Wibbles Darth Maul? I'm not sure who you're talking about.
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anon (12/22/2015) [-]
I agree with your points in some way, mostly the kylo ren being the bitch thing, didn't like the character nor the actor. But consider this, it pays respect to the original trilogy so fan boys wouldn't go crying like a little bitch, like they did with prequels, and it still sets up possibilities to create new films in different direction than prequels, while leaving them in tact. Imo it was just as good as episode IV, and if they don't **** up some of the future episodes, it will be as good as the original trilogy.
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sirmatthew (12/22/2015) [-] Did you see Ren use the force? Definitely seemed like a threat to me.
He was supposed to look like a brat. People have emotions (ex. Anakin). This person happened to have a lot of pressure on him. Why wouldnt he snap at times?
Besides that, the movie is largely based around finding Luke Skywalker. Do you seriously not expect that the new protagonists will run into some of the old heros While they're seeking after Luke??? Remember, Luke knew and is related to alot of the people we saw in that movie.
We can completely understand why Finn went to save Rey. Are you joking me? Rey and Finn had already been through multiple life/death situations together, Finn has had very few people in his life care about him, and Rey had ever so recently pleaded for Finn to stay.
Also your argument falls apart that they Didn't need Leia, Chewy, C3PO and R2D2 because the purpose of their mission IS FINDING LUKE, not because they need to throw him in for hype, but because one of the largest things in the star-wars universe is in peril. The balance of the force. Luke is the last Jedi. Does this not seem important when the Dark side of the force is flourishing? They literally need R2D2 (package deal with C3P0) as an important part of the map, and Leia+Han and Han+Chewy are package deals. Would they not run into Leia being the royalty of the last episode/general of this episode?
He was supposed to look like a brat. People have emotions (ex. Anakin). This person happened to have a lot of pressure on him. Why wouldnt he snap at times?
Besides that, the movie is largely based around finding Luke Skywalker. Do you seriously not expect that the new protagonists will run into some of the old heros While they're seeking after Luke??? Remember, Luke knew and is related to alot of the people we saw in that movie.
We can completely understand why Finn went to save Rey. Are you joking me? Rey and Finn had already been through multiple life/death situations together, Finn has had very few people in his life care about him, and Rey had ever so recently pleaded for Finn to stay.
Also your argument falls apart that they Didn't need Leia, Chewy, C3PO and R2D2 because the purpose of their mission IS FINDING LUKE, not because they need to throw him in for hype, but because one of the largest things in the star-wars universe is in peril. The balance of the force. Luke is the last Jedi. Does this not seem important when the Dark side of the force is flourishing? They literally need R2D2 (package deal with C3P0) as an important part of the map, and Leia+Han and Han+Chewy are package deals. Would they not run into Leia being the royalty of the last episode/general of this episode?
#11 to #7
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cisdroidcommander (12/21/2015) [-] I disliked the starkiller base trench run. I disliked it alot Why did it need to be a trench? . Still a fun movie
#38 to #7
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tenaciouslee ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] I'm sorry, but Kylo Ren looks like Darth Vader with a sleeker design, and Finn seems pretty much like Black Luke Skywalker, perhaps Luke Cagewalker.
#59 to #3
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schneidend ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Luke never wanted to return to Tatooine to wait for his parents. He was wanting to leave as soon as he could. This summary completely ignores half of VII's characters and plot points.
#142 to #59
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thepizzadevourer (12/22/2015) [-] Aye, that was the point I was trying to make. There's a decent amount of similarity between the plots though there's a good amount of differences too . The characters, however, are completely different. Even the OT characters have had so much character development put into them it's unfair to say they're the same.
#198 to #142
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darkjack ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-]
Villains are super similar.
Villain's big plot is beyond "similar".
the wise mentor getting killed by the masked villain in the death station.
The main hero finding the "wise jedi master in exile" to train.
the villains real leader "hiding" only bothering to kinda show up.
starting on a desert planet with a droid important to the rebellion.
I wouldn't even go as far to say the characters are completely different. It's like someone traced the characters from the OT, then colored them in differently. Different individual traits, but they will probably end up filling the same roles, in the same way.
I don't know, I thought i was a passable movie, but as a star wars movie with this much hype, to get "A New Hope" with some slight changes was a major disappointment.
Villain's big plot is beyond "similar".
the wise mentor getting killed by the masked villain in the death station.
The main hero finding the "wise jedi master in exile" to train.
the villains real leader "hiding" only bothering to kinda show up.
starting on a desert planet with a droid important to the rebellion.
I wouldn't even go as far to say the characters are completely different. It's like someone traced the characters from the OT, then colored them in differently. Different individual traits, but they will probably end up filling the same roles, in the same way.
I don't know, I thought i was a passable movie, but as a star wars movie with this much hype, to get "A New Hope" with some slight changes was a major disappointment.
#305 to #198
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qonetwothreefive (12/22/2015) [-] How would you want to lead your "empire"? (I'll use empire as a generalization here just cuz)
By living alongside another "empire" or would you rather want to destroy it, and if you destroy it, do it over a long time with a lot of oppurtunities to get attacked or rather all at once with, say, a huge laser space station for example?
Villains are obviously similar because the new one obsesses over the old one
can't really call han a wise mentor and this time it was a huge thing propelling the development of mister ugly hair as he decided to commit completely to the dark side, whereas obi wan was "just" saving luke (but he'll come back stronger!!! as a goddamn ghost...)
sith mentors hiding and not fully showing themselves to their disciples makes sense if you know their structure and way of gathering power/becoming a master (and the fact that mister ugly hair is so desperate to learn from mister ugly face shows that he's kind of a weak sith imo)
don't really have something to say about the jedi msater in exile (it fits the character both times, including jedi feelings and stuff, though), nor the start on a desert planet (the start was still a lot different)
For the characters i get what you mean, they do sorta feel like they fill the same roles, but at the same time they don't
Overall i'd say abrams did a pretty good job for taking up such a huge franchise with so many chances to **** up
By living alongside another "empire" or would you rather want to destroy it, and if you destroy it, do it over a long time with a lot of oppurtunities to get attacked or rather all at once with, say, a huge laser space station for example?
Villains are obviously similar because the new one obsesses over the old one
can't really call han a wise mentor and this time it was a huge thing propelling the development of mister ugly hair as he decided to commit completely to the dark side, whereas obi wan was "just" saving luke (but he'll come back stronger!!! as a goddamn ghost...)
sith mentors hiding and not fully showing themselves to their disciples makes sense if you know their structure and way of gathering power/becoming a master (and the fact that mister ugly hair is so desperate to learn from mister ugly face shows that he's kind of a weak sith imo)
don't really have something to say about the jedi msater in exile (it fits the character both times, including jedi feelings and stuff, though), nor the start on a desert planet (the start was still a lot different)
For the characters i get what you mean, they do sorta feel like they fill the same roles, but at the same time they don't
Overall i'd say abrams did a pretty good job for taking up such a huge franchise with so many chances to **** up
#74 to #59
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ohemgeezus (12/22/2015) [-] Yeah, I think this was made before 7 even came out, seeing as Rey never met San Tekka
#32 to #20
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ohemgeezus (12/22/2015) [-] It's pretty likely
>She's force sensitive
>They just happened to not show what her parents look like(so it can be a big reveal of episode 8)
>She had vision of Lukes past(Cloud City and him burning most likely his academy)
>She was born close to the time Ben turned to the dark side
>She's force sensitive
>They just happened to not show what her parents look like(so it can be a big reveal of episode 8)
>She had vision of Lukes past(Cloud City and him burning most likely his academy)
>She was born close to the time Ben turned to the dark side
#62 to #32
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
My impression was that the visions were from Luke's perspective, and tied to the lightsaber. All it definitively proved was that Luke was there when they left Rey on Jakku, just like how Obi-Wan brought Luke to Tatooine.
#71 to #62
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ohemgeezus (12/22/2015) [-] True, but her being drawn to the lightsaber itself is something I forgot to add in my original comment. I don't know how it works in SW, but being drawn to it is something to consider. Also, another thing I forgot is that Ben definitely knows Rey. Remember the part when he's having his temper tantrum when Finn and BB-8 escaped them, the guy mentioned "a girl" and he reacted as someone he knows. Plus, this is SW, the lead is always a Skywalker anyway, it just wouldn't make sense to not have her being Lukes kid
#83 to #71
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
Well, we've never seen someone be drawn to a lightsaber before so we don't know how that works. Luke wasn't drawn to his father's lightsaber in Obi-Wan's hut on Tatooine, so an attachment doesn't demand familial attachment.
I'll have to see it again, but I don't think the anger was directed at "a girl," just in general. "A girl" could be anyone, really. Besides, if he knew his cousin was on the planet at all, wouldn't he have tried to kill her, since she obviously escaped his massacre anyway?
Well, I suppose. But it could make sense without that...
I'll have to see it again, but I don't think the anger was directed at "a girl," just in general. "A girl" could be anyone, really. Besides, if he knew his cousin was on the planet at all, wouldn't he have tried to kill her, since she obviously escaped his massacre anyway?
Well, I suppose. But it could make sense without that...
#86 to #83
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ohemgeezus (12/22/2015) [-] I mean, like you said we don't know how her being drawn to it works, it could've been Luke reaching out and having her be drawn to it so she could start her path to him, it could/could not be a result of family ties. The way I see it is as far as Luke knew nothing of the ways of the Jedi, whereas Rey had just found out. All this is just speculation of course so we'll have to wait 2 years.
Well in the scene he was having his tantrum destroying stuff with his saber because BB escaped with the part of the map, then asked the guy if there was anything else, when the guy mentioned there was "a girl", and Ben Force pulled the guy to him and asked something along the lines of, "what girl".
I did see some theories that Rey could've been at Lukes Academy when Ben turned to the darkside, so he could know her from that(still doesn't mean she's not his son), although she would be very, very young seeing how Ben is 10 years older than her, hence why she doesn't know of him.
Well in the scene he was having his tantrum destroying stuff with his saber because BB escaped with the part of the map, then asked the guy if there was anything else, when the guy mentioned there was "a girl", and Ben Force pulled the guy to him and asked something along the lines of, "what girl".
I did see some theories that Rey could've been at Lukes Academy when Ben turned to the darkside, so he could know her from that(still doesn't mean she's not his son), although she would be very, very young seeing how Ben is 10 years older than her, hence why she doesn't know of him.
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sacrilegious (12/22/2015) [-]
Well, Rey is definitely not his son.
But the fact that she was at the academy neither confirms nor denies her parentage.
We don't know how old they are canonically, do we?
But the fact that she was at the academy neither confirms nor denies her parentage.
We don't know how old they are canonically, do we?
#93 to #89
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ohemgeezus (12/22/2015) [-] God damnit, I saw that when I made the comment, but didn't fix it before hitting enter.
According to the SW wiki he was born a year after the battle of Endor, she was 11 years after. Ofc this wasn't said in the movies, but the ep 7 visual dictionary says she's 19
According to the SW wiki he was born a year after the battle of Endor, she was 11 years after. Ofc this wasn't said in the movies, but the ep 7 visual dictionary says she's 19
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vortexrain (12/22/2015) [-] Some guy at work said he thought Rey might be Han and Leia's kid, don't know how he got that idea.
#30 to #3
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feelythefeel (12/22/2015) [-] I was already glad I didn't pay to see this, you don't need to drill it in any further.
#22
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creamymcgee (12/21/2015) [-] Actual spoilers
Too bad Phasma did absolutely nothing in TFA. Heres hoping shes an actual bad ass in the next movie.
Too bad Phasma did absolutely nothing in TFA. Heres hoping shes an actual bad ass in the next movie.
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corrosionx (12/22/2015) [-] She just sort of vanishes after she does it, I dunno what they do with her because they obviously couldn't leave her in the shield room; she'd just turn them back on again
#108 to #22
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sirmatthew (12/22/2015) [-] As i posted a bit earlier, we got to see the storm troopers combat capabilities a little bit in TFA, like when Finn and the stormtrooper have that melee battle. Makes me more hyped for what Shes gonna do in the next couple movies.
#35
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PenguinsOfMars (12/22/2015) [-] i went to a bar that had a star wars theme night before i went to the midnight showing. it was pretty cool, the bartenders all dressed as stormtroopers and the owner was darth vader.
it would have been awesome but the bartenders couldn't make a shot to save their lives.
it would have been awesome but the bartenders couldn't make a shot to save their lives.
#231 to #35
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blackmageewizardt ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] An Carlos meme? With an actuell decent pun? Who are you and where is the real Carlos?
#145 to #143
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thepizzadevourer (12/22/2015) [-] You made an objective statement on a subjective topic. I derided for doing so by pointing out your opinion is shared by very few people.
#212 to #200
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ninjaspartan (12/22/2015) [-] I might take your word for it if I didn't already play those exact games and give them a 10/10.
Or a 5/7, however you want to squeeze the cheese.
Or a 5/7, however you want to squeeze the cheese.
#152 to #145
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/22/2015) [-]
doesn't matter. If everyone turned pedophile by tomorrow, tht wouldn't make havng sex wth children without their consent ok.
That movie was made without creativity. without heart. People can still like it. I enjoyed laughing at how ridiculous it was. But it's still **** . Bad quality. LAcks feeling. There's many different words to describe what I'm talking about.
That movie was made without creativity. without heart. People can still like it. I enjoyed laughing at how ridiculous it was. But it's still **** . Bad quality. LAcks feeling. There's many different words to describe what I'm talking about.
#205 to #152
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ninjaspartan (12/22/2015) [-] Or maybe it just wasn't made with your subjective tastes in mind? Sounds like you're not suited to watch a Star Wars movie from 2015. You know, like 95% of the rest of the planet is.
I mean it's cool to think differently than other people, but it's kinda not cool to say the exact opposite of what everyone else thinks as if more than 2 out of 10 people will agree with you. That's kinda part of what makes you objectively wrong. Subjectively you can think whatever you want. Keywords, friend. They are an important part of every opinion.
I mean it's cool to think differently than other people, but it's kinda not cool to say the exact opposite of what everyone else thinks as if more than 2 out of 10 people will agree with you. That's kinda part of what makes you objectively wrong. Subjectively you can think whatever you want. Keywords, friend. They are an important part of every opinion.
#311 to #205
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/22/2015) [-]
Objectivel it was a piece of **** . you can analyze it. I commented to that bid red yellow and blue bird, you can read my thoughts about it.
#260 to #152
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vvardenfell (12/22/2015) [-] Wowowowow, did you just compare liking a movie to being a pedophile? Holy **** , I'll just pretend you never did, alright so, I'd say, since it was so hyped, people axpected a lot from this movie, and critics weren't gonna go easy on it, but it pilled it off, it lived up to the hype and didn't disapoint.
#310 to #260
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/22/2015) [-]
Actually, critics for some reason loved it. But it's a turd. The villain was laughable and looked like a loser. The action was just a serious of "what wasthat? what's going on?" to cover for the fact that nothing interesting was happening. the acting was bad. They had no chemistry, I mean, look at Han and Leia that was cringe worthy, they had no heart. The humor... it was like seeing Star Wars meets the big Bang Theory.
You can like it if you want, you have that freedom, but please, for the love of human decency and our creative spirit, stop saying it's a good movie.
You can like it if you want, you have that freedom, but please, for the love of human decency and our creative spirit, stop saying it's a good movie.
#313 to #310
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vvardenfell (12/22/2015) [-] That last sentence, it's hilarious how you got it upside down... No, everyone loved it, even skeptical people like me, who loved the expended universe, and hoped it got retconed for a good reason. For some reason you are audacious enough to think that, from an objective point of view, 92% of the people who watched the movie and loved it are wrong, and the 8% who didn't like it like you or didn't even watch it and decided to talk **** about it because they were told to, are right. So yeah, from a subjective point of view, as you wish, have it the way you want, but Objectively, you are wrong.
#314 to #313
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/22/2015) [-]
Who knows why. i honestly think it's a case of "the emperor wears no clothes", human standards have been lowered, or your expectations got the best of you.
Or those kinds of people (I've met those who didn't like it too and they're good people with free minds) aren't in touch with their creative spirit so they don't know how to recognize true inspiration from recycled garbage half-assedly put together.
Or those kinds of people (I've met those who didn't like it too and they're good people with free minds) aren't in touch with their creative spirit so they don't know how to recognize true inspiration from recycled garbage half-assedly put together.
#312 to #165
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/22/2015) [-]
My favorite movie is Fight Club. But also Spirited Away, Pulp Fiction, Trainspotting, Casablanca, all different examples of good cinema.
And, I liked Guardians of the Galaxy, I have no problem loving something everyone else loves as long as it's good. That movie for example, you can tell they had fun with it.
And, I liked Guardians of the Galaxy, I have no problem loving something everyone else loves as long as it's good. That movie for example, you can tell they had fun with it.
#320 to #312
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Bforbacon ONLINE (12/23/2015) [-] I actually started reading your other comments and like, damn dude... Find wherever you put your childlike wonder and dust it off because if none of the excitement and joy this movie radiated got to you at all, you honestly might be dead on the inside.
#326 to #320
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/26/2015) [-]
"childlike wonder" you seem to not be able to differentiate between recycled garbage and true creativity.
#328 to #326
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Bforbacon ONLINE (12/26/2015) [-] No I can. Watch:
Pulp Fiction: Creative
Ex Machina: Creative
Mad Max: Creative
Transformers 4: Garbage
Hitman Agent 47: Garbage
Aloha: Garbage
How to Train Your Dragon: Creative
You know, It's mostly personal opinions, but you seem to think you can get all up in the cool kid critic club by bagging on a movie that was really just a lot of fun to watch even if it did borrow from A New Hope a fair bit in terms of plot.
Pulp Fiction: Creative
Ex Machina: Creative
Mad Max: Creative
Transformers 4: Garbage
Hitman Agent 47: Garbage
Aloha: Garbage
How to Train Your Dragon: Creative
You know, It's mostly personal opinions, but you seem to think you can get all up in the cool kid critic club by bagging on a movie that was really just a lot of fun to watch even if it did borrow from A New Hope a fair bit in terms of plot.
#319 to #312
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Bforbacon ONLINE (12/23/2015) [-] And you're of the opinion The Force Awakens wasn't fun? You didn't enjoy any of the new character interactions, any of the classic character interactions, any of the well-paced comedy, any of the conflict, any of the battle scenes, etc. etc...? I mean if you don't like it, fine, but you really have to give some decent answers as to why because the movie was hella fun and spectacularly exciting.
Also damn I really should have guessed David Fincher...
Also damn I really should have guessed David Fincher...
#327 to #319
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/26/2015) [-]
No. They felt forced and lacked depth. i mean, look at Han and Leia for god's sake. there was no love there, just awkward stupid joke. Like I was watching the Big Bang Theory or the teen movie of the day (Twilight, Hunger Games, Harry Potter)
#329 to #327
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Bforbacon ONLINE (12/26/2015) [-] No, there was not a lot of love between Han and Leia because their relationship is complicated by the fact that their son betrayed the light side of the force and Han ran off smuggling for a number of years. It would have been forced if they jumped right back into kissing and loving like the lovestruck goobers they were at the end of Return of the Jedi. The fact that you don't understand that really is a testament to how wrong you are.
#330 to #329
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selfdenyingbeggar (12/27/2015) [-]
No, there was not a lot of love between Han and Leia because their relationship was complicated
>no, anon
>no, anon
#36 to #15
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PenguinsOfMars (12/22/2015) [-] im surprised you had the time to see it considering your cs was so ******* low it took you 55 minutes to build a refresher orb.
#159 to #27
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godofhorizons (12/22/2015) [-]
They're right though...it really wasn't. It was poorly paced, the villain was a little weak pretty boy, and the script was recycled. A very bland combination of Episodes IV and VI. Now there were some good parts. The stormtroopers were actual threats rather than cannon fodder, the blaster fights, and dogfighting was pretty awesome. the lightsaber fights could have been better (i don't know how a recently discovered force-sensitive trooper or scavenger with no formal training could last more than 10 seconds against the dark lord of the sith but whatevs). I had a full on nerdgasm when the rebel pilots first came to resuce Han, Chewie, and Fin. I enjoyed the movie, and would see it again. Like the Dark Knight Rises, it was entertaining, but there were quite a few plot holes and other things that took away from it being an objectively good film.
#208 to #159
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ninjaspartan (12/22/2015) [-] Well spoken opinion, but one opinion does not an objective fact make. It was excellently paced for the presentation it was going for, and it overall it gave the film a slightly different feel from the origional trilogy while still managing to keep it at the same time. Everyone complaining about a carbon copy plot can take their nitpicking home and can it, since frankly speaking scene by scene it was still far different. I personally enjoyed Kylo being a refreshing personality to the rather similarly veiled dark-men of every other sith in existance. Overall, as a speaking portion of the unspoken majority there were far more pros than cons, and as a Star Wars fan I'm not going to weigh them together since I enjoyed the film, and enjoying a film makes it good to me.
#188 to #159
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thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Of course guys...let's thumb down the most reasonable person in this thread that points out the good, the bad, and the ugly of a film with objective criticism instead of applauding him for being not a ******* child on the star wars hype train on the spearman that is trying to ruin it for everyone else.
#207 to #206
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thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] >wrong
>opinions
Star wars character as your profile picture.
I'll concede an early defeat and just let your fanboy surge march on.
>opinions
Star wars character as your profile picture.
I'll concede an early defeat and just let your fanboy surge march on.
#209 to #207
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ninjaspartan (12/22/2015) [-] You can eliminate more keystrokes if you put both words behind one meme arrow. Like this:
>wrong opinions
Pay more attention in your high school typing class.
>wrong opinions
Pay more attention in your high school typing class.
#228 to #209
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thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] It's supposed to be a play off of:
"
> X
> Y
Pick one. "
You tried at least.
"
> X
> Y
Pick one. "
You tried at least.
#301 to #228
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ninjaspartan (12/22/2015) [-]
Its probably not the best choice of meme, I can't just pick one chromosome for you, you're missing both.
#88
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sgtmajjohnson ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] ACTUALvery smallSPOILER
Was anyone else disappointed by Phasma? She's there for like two minutes before she gets chucked in the trash.
Was anyone else disappointed by Phasma? She's there for like two minutes before she gets chucked in the trash.
#90 to #88
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brandinifettucine (12/22/2015) [-] She might get more significant screen time in the next one Considering if she even made it out somehow before the Death Star 2.0 exploded
#91 to #90
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sgtmajjohnson ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Hopefully, because half the trailers focused on her. By the way, this would be Death Star 3.0
#94 to #91
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brandinifettucine (12/22/2015) [-] Technically, Death Star 2.5 The second was never completed
#95 to #94
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sgtmajjohnson ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Well, then you could call it 2.0, with the second (more similar) one being 1.1.
#261 to #88
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TheAnonLord (12/22/2015) [-] I have a feeling that she had a bigger part, but she was cut out because of either time restraints or just didn't feel like it was a good character development.
I do like how they made a character that seemed important, just another character, that they weren't special though.
I do like how they made a character that seemed important, just another character, that they weren't special though.
#100 to #88
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schneidend ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Really my only gripe about the movie. They should have had her be the one with the stun baton thing, kick Finn's ass, get hurt by the bowcaster, and retreat.
#121 to #100
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sgtmajjohnson ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Not a bad call, actually. Although I do like how that scene showed that stormtroopers aren't as incompetent as they were in the earlier movies.
#122 to #121
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schneidend ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] They weren't actually incompetent, though. They only had to appear incompetent because the heroes were so incompetent, standing out in the open all the time as they were.
Also, the way I've heard it, the effects guys kept adding too many blaster bolts to a given scene.
Also, the way I've heard it, the effects guys kept adding too many blaster bolts to a given scene.
#127 to #122
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sgtmajjohnson ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] See, I've heard that excuse of them letting the heroes escape, but it doesn't excuse the rest of those movies. They bunch up and fire wildly when they board Leia's ship in a New Hope; the only reason they weren't all slaughtered coming through the door is because the rebels were apparently blind and retarded. Then, when searching for the heroes (whom they are just trying to kill/arrest at this point, as they are unrelated to the rebellion), they check a door, see that it's locked, and move on. They clearly thought that they could be back there, otherwise they wouldn't bother checking, but a locked door is just to severe an obstacle? That's just in the first hour of A New Hope, but this type of **** bothered me throughout the entire trilogy, even before I was interested in small unit tactics. They move more stupidly than completely untrained insurgents I've seen on video, grouping up in goddamn hallways.
#161 to #147
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sgtmajjohnson ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] See, that makes sense canonically, but it still makes them less threatening Waffen-SS style villains and more bumbling idiots in oversized helmets, at least from what we see on screen.
#294 to #161
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Dadhhg (12/22/2015) [-]
There were only around 4.2 million clone troopers produced, the empire had at it's peak over 1.2 billion troops on their star destroyers alone, not including ground armies, other capital ships, and planetary garrisons. putting the clones at less than 0.4% of the empire's man power.
#302 to #294
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sgtmajjohnson ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Holy **** , no wonder they apparently didn't train them. They must've thought that they had enough troops to replace any losses (I refer to this as the Soviet strategy).
#13 to #12
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strangesir (12/21/2015) [-] ***** , it's like a goddamn balloon, looks fake as hell. Are you serious?
#18 to #14
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strangesir (12/21/2015) [-] Who cares whose ass it is, it still looks like plastic surgery.
So not liking one ass makes me a fag? K
So not liking one ass makes me a fag? K
#96 to #18
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ThatFatMummy (12/22/2015) [-] So what if it's plastic surgery? I still wanna put my dick in it. And I don't even like anal!
#101 to #18
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uleaveinpieces ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] No, being a faggot about it makes you a faggot.
#48 to #31
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strangesir (12/22/2015) [-] Thank you, I thought I was the only one here mature enough to have standards.
#61 to #58
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leifbunny (12/22/2015) [-] ...Are you honestly telling me that it's normal to want someone with a body that is in no way naturally possible to a point of being cartoonish? Not this one specifically, but that is what I'm talking about. Come on, we all had weird fantasies that made no sense when we were kids.
#63 to #61
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warioteam (12/22/2015) [-] "not this one specifically"
?????
i really cant wrap my head around what you are trying to convey
"you shouldn't like this image, not because it is bad, but because i believe it somehow RELATES to something unnatural"
i think you need to stop huffing spray point fella
?????
i really cant wrap my head around what you are trying to convey
"you shouldn't like this image, not because it is bad, but because i believe it somehow RELATES to something unnatural"
i think you need to stop huffing spray point fella
#151
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lordquas (12/22/2015) [-] I have several questions about this film, so brace yourself for spoilers.
1) Why is C-3PO's arm red? When C-3PO first appears in the film, his arm is red, but he doesn't give a full explanation as to why. Perhaps it serves a large role?
2) Why did Captain Phasma barely get any screen time? I read some articles and watched interviews about the actress that plays Phasma prior to the movie's release, and they hype it up claiming that her villainous role is brutal in the new film. The only thing she does all movie is order a squad of Stormtroopers to gun down the surviving villagers in the first scene. Later in the film, she is easily captured by Finn, Han, and Chewie on the Starkiller Base or whatever it's called. I'm disappointed because I really like her as a villain.
3) So is Rey a daughter of Luke Skywalker or maybe a granddaughter of Obi-Wan? I assume she has to have some heretic connection to the force, enabling her to learn the force so easily and quickly.
4) Why did Han Solo's son become evil?In the film, Kylo Ren claims that Han Solo was a horrible father. What things did Han do that were so bad that Kylo literally turned to the dark side?
5) What the hell is up with Supreme Leader Snoke? The new emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious is a giant golem-like creature. How did he rise in power? What is he? Why is he a giant?
6) Why didn't Leia try to redeem her son instead of Han? Kylo Ren is the son of Leia and Han. Why didn't she try to help Han bring him over out of the dark side?
7) What in the actual **** is Luke doing at the end of the film? When we see Luke, is looking out into the ocean wearing a coat. He is standing stiff, just watching the waves. What has he been doing this entire time on that archipelago?
1) Why is C-3PO's arm red? When C-3PO first appears in the film, his arm is red, but he doesn't give a full explanation as to why. Perhaps it serves a large role?
2) Why did Captain Phasma barely get any screen time? I read some articles and watched interviews about the actress that plays Phasma prior to the movie's release, and they hype it up claiming that her villainous role is brutal in the new film. The only thing she does all movie is order a squad of Stormtroopers to gun down the surviving villagers in the first scene. Later in the film, she is easily captured by Finn, Han, and Chewie on the Starkiller Base or whatever it's called. I'm disappointed because I really like her as a villain.
3) So is Rey a daughter of Luke Skywalker or maybe a granddaughter of Obi-Wan? I assume she has to have some heretic connection to the force, enabling her to learn the force so easily and quickly.
4) Why did Han Solo's son become evil?In the film, Kylo Ren claims that Han Solo was a horrible father. What things did Han do that were so bad that Kylo literally turned to the dark side?
5) What the hell is up with Supreme Leader Snoke? The new emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious is a giant golem-like creature. How did he rise in power? What is he? Why is he a giant?
6) Why didn't Leia try to redeem her son instead of Han? Kylo Ren is the son of Leia and Han. Why didn't she try to help Han bring him over out of the dark side?
7) What in the actual **** is Luke doing at the end of the film? When we see Luke, is looking out into the ocean wearing a coat. He is standing stiff, just watching the waves. What has he been doing this entire time on that archipelago?
#178 to #170
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tenpoundpom (12/22/2015) [-]
red=sith=evil
turns out its his evil arm thats usually fine but he sometimes loses control over it
i also wonder how the giant golem creature seems to disappear at will... oh wait, this is star wars, its a hologram
turns out its his evil arm thats usually fine but he sometimes loses control over it
i also wonder how the giant golem creature seems to disappear at will... oh wait, this is star wars, its a hologram
#238 to #151
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privileges (12/22/2015) [-] 7) My guess is he was meditating for a long ass time. Either that or he saw Rey's ship landing, dropped everything he was doing and ran up the mountain to look all cool and ****
#162 to #151
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xxhunterxx (12/22/2015) [-] 1) not sure, might have broken off or something. Probably not important and just a little comic relief tbh
2) I'm sure Phasma will get a lot more screen time. She wasn't killed off in the movie so we should assume that she will get a lot more screen time later. I was kind of disappointed as well.
3) Rey has to be related to the Skywalker family or Kenobi, because that just makes sense like you said. I'm sure that it will be revealed later on, as she is trained by Luke she'll learn that she's related or some **** like that. It was implied that she was his daughter because Mos says something along the lines of "this lightsaber belonged to Luke's father, and it called out to him, now it calls to you".
4) I believe it was similar to why Anakin turned to the dark side. Anakin turned to the dark side because he believed Palpatine, and Ben Solo/Kylo Ren, being pretty much alone from adult influences during force training with Luke, believed Snokes and turned to the dark side. I believe he hates his father because his father wasn't there to stop him from going to the dark side. You can see that Kylo Ren is afraid of the dark side and lives in fear and is quite mentally unstable.
5) Snokes isn't a giant famster, that was just a hologram lmao. They probably won't explain what happened in the 30 years between Episode VI and Episode VII, but he reminds me of Vader without mask. Let's just say Vader cheated death AGAIN and became leader of The First Order.
6) She's a general now, she needed to direct the Resistance back at the base
7) Luke was said to go into hiding after the Ben Solo incident. He's probably just honing the force or some **** I don't know maybe he was just jacking off or maybe there's some hot space bitches there
2) I'm sure Phasma will get a lot more screen time. She wasn't killed off in the movie so we should assume that she will get a lot more screen time later. I was kind of disappointed as well.
3) Rey has to be related to the Skywalker family or Kenobi, because that just makes sense like you said. I'm sure that it will be revealed later on, as she is trained by Luke she'll learn that she's related or some **** like that. It was implied that she was his daughter because Mos says something along the lines of "this lightsaber belonged to Luke's father, and it called out to him, now it calls to you".
4) I believe it was similar to why Anakin turned to the dark side. Anakin turned to the dark side because he believed Palpatine, and Ben Solo/Kylo Ren, being pretty much alone from adult influences during force training with Luke, believed Snokes and turned to the dark side. I believe he hates his father because his father wasn't there to stop him from going to the dark side. You can see that Kylo Ren is afraid of the dark side and lives in fear and is quite mentally unstable.
5) Snokes isn't a giant famster, that was just a hologram lmao. They probably won't explain what happened in the 30 years between Episode VI and Episode VII, but he reminds me of Vader without mask. Let's just say Vader cheated death AGAIN and became leader of The First Order.
6) She's a general now, she needed to direct the Resistance back at the base
7) Luke was said to go into hiding after the Ben Solo incident. He's probably just honing the force or some **** I don't know maybe he was just jacking off or maybe there's some hot space bitches there
#217 to #162
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huntergriff ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] >5
it's more than likely palpatine. in my opinion
it's more than likely palpatine. in my opinion
#308 to #223
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huntergriff ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] vader's body disappeared, like Yoda's and Obi-wan's, after he died on the death star actually. Luke just did the pyre as a ceremonial thing.
#233 to #162
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wizardspoon (12/22/2015) [-] >3
It's very like rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker, given that he marries and has kids with Mara Jade, another jedi. We dont get jedi banging very often so I presume the force or midichlorians are genetic.
Speaking of Genetics, Rey has Brown eyes and dark brown hair. Whereas her father has Blue eyes, light brown hair, and the mother has green eyes and red hair. So the eye colour especially would have been unlikely to be brown, but by all means possible. SO LETS GO FURTHER.
Grandpa Anakin Skywalker has blue eyes (assuming yellow eyes are not genetic) However, grandma Padme Amidala, has brown eyes. Finally. Now I have no idea about Mara's parents but given that Mara has Green eyes, we can assume that her parents have light coloured eyes so blue or green.
I'm not a biologist but I'm saying there is about a 10% - 20% that Rey would have gotten brown eyes if she is the daughter to Luke.
Also why the **** would Luke leave his kid on a deserty planet just like he was left on tatooine.
Sorry for the paragraph, I'm real bored.
INB4 film theory/matt patt nicks this
It's very like rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker, given that he marries and has kids with Mara Jade, another jedi. We dont get jedi banging very often so I presume the force or midichlorians are genetic.
Speaking of Genetics, Rey has Brown eyes and dark brown hair. Whereas her father has Blue eyes, light brown hair, and the mother has green eyes and red hair. So the eye colour especially would have been unlikely to be brown, but by all means possible. SO LETS GO FURTHER.
Grandpa Anakin Skywalker has blue eyes (assuming yellow eyes are not genetic) However, grandma Padme Amidala, has brown eyes. Finally. Now I have no idea about Mara's parents but given that Mara has Green eyes, we can assume that her parents have light coloured eyes so blue or green.
I'm not a biologist but I'm saying there is about a 10% - 20% that Rey would have gotten brown eyes if she is the daughter to Luke.
Also why the **** would Luke leave his kid on a deserty planet just like he was left on tatooine.
Sorry for the paragraph, I'm real bored.
INB4 film theory/matt patt nicks this
#263 to #233
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thesirofponies (12/22/2015) [-] >3
The expanded universe is no longer cannon,and according to the makers of Episode VII,Mara Jade is not Luke Skywalker's wife. I guess we'll find out in Episode VIII
The expanded universe is no longer cannon,and according to the makers of Episode VII,Mara Jade is not Luke Skywalker's wife. I guess we'll find out in Episode VIII
#40
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pokemonisdabest ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-]
I'm disappointed in her role in this movie, I mean they play it out like she's some kind of special badass with the cool armor and stuff but she does jack **** . I hope they bring her back in the next one and actually have her do anything
#65 to #40
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kibbleking (12/22/2015) [-] Since she didn't die and her face was never shown, I'm sure she's going to have a much bigger role in the next movie.
#29
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vivalavidya (12/21/2015) [-] Mild spoilers ahead:
I was really disappointed with how little Captain Fasma was used. She seemed so cool in the trailers, and was downright menacing in the first opening scenes. However, all that came of her was that Finn and Poe used her as a hostage, and then she mysteriously disappeared for the rest of the movie (if I remember correctly).
Idk, I know that she will be in later movies as she didn't die in The Force Awakens but still, woulda liked to see some badassery that the film only hinted at.
Also, the ******* name! One of the things that made the original trilogy so timeless is that it stayed away from the tropes of 70s sci fi. However, the name Captain Fasma is 70s as ****
I was really disappointed with how little Captain Fasma was used. She seemed so cool in the trailers, and was downright menacing in the first opening scenes. However, all that came of her was that Finn and Poe used her as a hostage, and then she mysteriously disappeared for the rest of the movie (if I remember correctly).
Idk, I know that she will be in later movies as she didn't die in The Force Awakens but still, woulda liked to see some badassery that the film only hinted at.
Also, the ******* name! One of the things that made the original trilogy so timeless is that it stayed away from the tropes of 70s sci fi. However, the name Captain Fasma is 70s as ****
#45 to #34
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ztron (12/22/2015) [-] Yeah but there's no way JJ would operate on that level of meta to make a boba fett type character that looks really cool but then doesn't do jack **** and die off screen. Plus she is confirmed for the next movie so hopefully she gets a bigger role the next time around, on some First Order strikes back deal.
#185 to #166
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thatoneiranianguy ONLINE (12/22/2015) [-] Allow me to do the honor to satisfy your account fetish:
#280 to #185
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thechosentroll (12/22/2015) [-] What is even the point of doing this anymore? Pretty much everyone who was going to see the movie has already seen it and the rest of us don't care. Seems like the spoiler's outlived its' usefullness.
Also, I wonder if Harrison Ford asked them to include that death in the script just so he never has to deal with Star Wars ******** again.
Also, I wonder if Harrison Ford asked them to include that death in the script just so he never has to deal with Star Wars ******** again.
#289 to #287
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thechosentroll (12/22/2015) [-] Oh, please. Like that's ever stopped a good actor. Nah, I recall in interviews he said he's sick and tired of Star Wars specifically.
#157 to #154
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xxhunterxx (12/22/2015) [-] anon I'm gonna have to thumb you down for posting a spoiler
but that's pretty funny
but that's pretty funny
#21
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putindispencerhere (12/21/2015) [-] If she doesn't have a bigger role in the next movie, I'll be ******* pissed.
I mean, me being pissed won't change much, but I'll be pissed nevertheless.
I mean, me being pissed won't change much, but I'll be pissed nevertheless.
#242
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blackoutonetwotwo (12/22/2015) [-] Man, surely there won't be a lot of pics cuming out of Rule34 about Captain Phasma getting gangbanged by her squad mates
or getting BLACKED by Finn.
or getting dumbed inside the Ass Compactor.
Can't wait
or getting BLACKED by Finn.
or getting dumbed inside the Ass Compactor.
Can't wait
#194
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sphincterface (12/22/2015) [-] I was disappointed with Phasma. So much buildup to her in the trailers and all the advertisements and she certainly was intimidating in the opening scenes, but then went around to just being there really. She was just....there. Then he gets so easily captured and seems to just give up and shut down the shields so easily. For someone who is supposedly such a big role with the First Order, you wouldn't expect her to just compromise everyone so easily and willingly. Also, I kinda rambling here but holy **** the guy who played Hux was so bad. I know he is probably trying to play a role, but the guy was like a wooden board. No emotions, no tone or expression in his voice whatsoever, said his lines like he was bored or just really didn't want to be there.
#321 to #290
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sphincterface (12/23/2015) [-] Hux was like the only First Order officer who talked. He often spoke with Snoke alongside Kylo Ren. He was the one who was told to retrieve Ren so he could finish his training.
