Nothing's sacred anymore

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+233

#3 - profhershellayton (12/24/2014) [-]

So... Joker finally won?

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#11 to #3 - dnallor (12/24/2014) [-]

you either die a hero, or you see yourself become the villain.... so... yeah

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#14 to #3 - pokimone (12/24/2014) [-]

See, while I understand the whole won or didn't thing, and I agree its poetic as **** . At the same time, batmans kind of a selfish prick for not breaking his own rules to save people. Yeah, he'll be an asshole, and a murderer, but honestly, I think thats better than letting the damn guy go free over and over. I feel like there should come a point where winning or losing doesn't mean **** . Its the same thing as the argument in HG Wells the Time Machine if anyone hasn't read it, upper class basically enslave the lower class for millennia, to the point where the lower class become apelike creatures of pure brute strength, but no intelligence that still do a bit of manual labor from time to time, and the rich are weak little gremlins barely capable of speech on the surface, and preyed upon by the poor. The argument is that before that happened, revolution would occur. Eventually, there comes a tipping point where EVERYONE doesn't give a **** anymore. Revolution occurs, whether against a higher power, or ones own morals. When the struggle of dealing with the rules or power, outweights the reward of obedience, its human nature to rebel against it and put a new set in place. I always felt like Bats should just kill him, be done with it, hate himself, and keep on trucking.

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#15 to #14 - thefunnykiller (12/24/2014) [-]

I think this was explained a bit in the red hood animated movie, but basically Batman is insane as well. If he were ever to kill the Joker, it wouldn't just stop at the joker. If he bends even a little, he will completely break. Before you know it, Batman will be killing all the major villains until none of them are left, and then he'll start killing lesser criminals. Killing to save a life sounds simple enough, but when does the killing stop?

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#16 to #15 - pokimone (12/24/2014) [-]

When Alfred breaks and shoots him under the same revolt principal. It would happen eventually. Bruce would never expect it, and while Alfred loves him like a son, thats exactly why he would do it, he wouldn't be able to bear seeing Bruce finally shatter, even if it was for the greater good, and he would put an end to it. The difference is, he is sane, and will accept punishment as penance for his crime instead of continuing it. Batman wins all fights if prepared, but he would never be prepared for the one person in the world he actually trusts to put an end to him out of mercy, and its exactly what would happen.

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#87 to #3 - thenewnuggubler (12/24/2014) [-]

No He actually died in like the first issue It's superman dreaming

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#28 to #3 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

Comment nr. 10 explains why not

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#74 to #28 - yourinvisiblegf (12/24/2014) [-]

>>#10

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#85 to #3 - riggyrigs (12/24/2014) [-]

real spoiler ahead it's not real, superman is only dreaming of what he wanted to see

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#104 to #3 - wellhungmonkey (12/24/2014) [-]

nope. This is Superman's dream he was put into a magical sleep in the most recent injustice comic

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#32 to #3 - abcdxyz (12/24/2014) [-]

This was a dream

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#5 to #3 - Maroon ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

no

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#4 to #3 - heartlessrobot (12/24/2014) [-]

Yes.

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#6 to #4 - Tusura (12/24/2014) [-]

/thread

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#7 to #3 - venomcobra (12/24/2014) [-]

Nope. Read the chapter before hand and the actual beginning of this chapter. OP cut out the start.

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#9 to #3 - captainpronin (12/24/2014) [-]

It's a dream

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#76 to #9 - europe (12/24/2014) [-]

Damnit

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+151

#10 - applescryatnight (12/24/2014) [-]

for those who are wondering

Megaspoiler

Superman went crazy and killed joker
He turns into a yellow lantern
Batman tries to stop him
Batman finds a way to put superman into an eternal sleep
Superman dreams of the perfect world where batman killed joker instead and agrees with his viewpoint.

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#130 to #10 - Greevon (12/24/2014) [-]

Got the game for free on PSN, it's totally worth the button mashing to progress in the storyline. (Yes, I suck at fighting games.)

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#131 to #130 - applescryatnight (12/24/2014) [-]

ive never played but if its anything like the comics, im sure its awesome.
the comics come out once a week and the anticipation kills me every week.

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#156 to #131 - themightymrplow (12/25/2014) [-]

You can totally just go to youtube and search "Injustice gods among us the movie" and watch each cutscene in order. Gameplay doesn't actually progress the story, because it's a fighting game, so you wont miss anything. Well worth it if you ask me. I've been loving the comic, too. If you'd like to check it out deadpoolsupplier.imgur.com/ CTRL+F "Injustice: Gods among us - Year One"

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#162 to #156 - applescryatnight (12/25/2014) [-]

is the video as good as the comics though? cause if it isnt id rather wait for the comics.

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#166 to #162 - themightymrplow (12/25/2014) [-]

The cutscenes are actually ******* amazing. For real. I was genuinely surprised at how good they are.

But they're basically two separate stories. The comics wont cover anything shown in the video game and vice versa (for the most part). Watching one wont ruin the other for you. In my opinion it makes them better when you've seen one.

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#170 to #166 - applescryatnight (12/25/2014) [-]

sounds amazing, im gonna check it out

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#143 to #131 - kyogreking (12/24/2014) [-]

Its under £4 on steam atm

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#13 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

so much ******** would have been avoided if bruce would have just done that the first place....

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#47 to #13 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

I have always agreed with you, old sport.

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#56 to #13 - kanedam ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

i'm on your side too.

thats exactly why i dont like batman.

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#73 to #13 - evanxzile (12/24/2014) [-]

So much **** would have been avoided if any ******* cops would shoot the bastard in the first place.
Seriously, it doesn't have to be Batman.

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#79 to #13 - megaton ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

not really since it turns out the joker is actually a deamon from hell that is actually imortal. and every so often comes to a town just to **** with everything.

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#91 to #79 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

because elseworld comic from a mediocre writer turns nearly 70 years of character development on its head.

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#118 to #91 - thegamegestapo (12/24/2014) [-]

>DC
>Character development

Pick one.

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#123 to #118 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

well considering superman went from an anarchist moses expy to a cultural icon of hope and the ultimate boyscout for example.

yes i do think there is character development in dc.

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#124 to #123 - thegamegestapo (12/24/2014) [-]

Barring the changes from the Silver Age there hasn't really been much character development except in individual writer's arcs which is then swiftly retconned or forgotten by another writer.

I miss Grant Morrison

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#125 to #124 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

yet again i end up having to repeat myself.

there is the canon dc continuity. and the elseworld stories.

canon stories usually follow the storyline and the previously established events remain in the history of the character(ofcourse few tropes do apply. see status quo is god)

also the change actually started from golden age to silver and then further on changed in the bronze and post crisis and was revamped a little bit again in new 52.

wich brings us to another point of character development wich is the continuity reboot.

also if you like grant morrison then read new 52 superman comics. he is writing those. and they are pretty darn good.

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#135 to #13 - wagastragas (12/24/2014) [-]

what i dont get it's how a criminal as the joker doesnt get a death sentence after being inprisoned.

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#174 to #135 - angelious (12/25/2014) [-]

he has. several times. except those times they deem him too insane to judge(stupidity)

he just happens to escape them everytime. or "gets better"

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#20 to #13 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

If the Joker dies, he wins, justice loses.

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#21 to #20 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

thats shoddy logic.

joker dies

>literally thousands, if not millions of innocent people will be saved
>world is one significant step closer to world peace
>gothams crimerate would drop by about 50%
>nothing of value would be lost in verse pov.

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#22 to #21 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

This is copy pasta but you'll have to do
They are fighting an ideological battle for each other’s soul. They are both two sides of the same coin:
Two individuals who, because of a horrible day in their lives, became insane and decided to take on the world and make it in their image.
The joker was a ****** comedian with a pregnant wife, a nice guy. On the day his wife died in a random accident he was bullied by mobsters into committing a crime, fell into a vat of chemicals and ended up alone, in pain, and scarred for life. The overall pain was such that he snapped…. realized that the world is cruel, unjust and random and decided he was going to destroy all fabric of the attempted, false, self-delusional order of the world and break everyone down to his level. He believes morals, ethics, are hypocritical nonsense. You can refer to the Dark Knight movie, in which he says “I’m just ahead of the curve.” He spends the entire movie putting everyone in front of him in situations where, to survive, they will have to break their moral code. Even the henchmen of the black guy… there are two. For no reason other than to break them, he says he will hire the one who will kill the other.
This is what the Joker does, he lives to prove to people that he is the avatar of who they really are : he just refuses to lie to himself.
Batman watched his parents be murdered, went insane also and developed several obsessions, he fights to bring justice to a world he feels is essentially good and plagued by the unnatural disease of crime and evil. He believes in justice above everything else, he does not kill.

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#23 to #22 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

This is what the Joker does, he lives to prove to people that he is the avatar of who they really are : he just refuses to lie to himself.
Batman watched his parents be murdered, went insane also and developed several obsessions, he fights to bring justice to a world he feels is essentially good and plagued by the unnatural disease of crime and evil. He believes in justice above everything else, he does not kill.
So what happens when these two men face each other? The Joker’s ultimate victory is for the Batman, the strongest enemy of his world view, a person who refuses no matter what to break down to his level, to kill him. He wants the Batman to kill him. He can’t wait for Batman to do it. It will prove his point: anyone can be broken into evil, just like him, if their pain or their reasons are strong enough.
Meanwhile the Batman is facing someone who is the epitome of cruelty and senseless crime. He HAS to beat the Joker according to his rules, to prove to himself that his rules mean something, that they are absolute. And this is a decision he has to face every time he catches the Joker: do I kill him? How many lives will I save if I just kill him? He always escapes Arkham…. I will be doing a good thing by ridding this world of this supremely deranged psychopath. If only he could break his morals in this one case…. this one time… for the greater good….
The Joker knows this. And he laughs. And he hopes.

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#24 to #23 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

But he also has to deal with the temptation… without the Batman he would be virtually unstoppable. Even in the world of DC Comics where there is Super Man, other supervillains fear him. They steer clear of him. He is too unpredictable, chaotic, and cruel. If only he were to kill the Batman, there is nobody out there who understands him enough to be able to stop him. If only he could kill the Batman… everything would be so simple.
They are fighting a deeply personal, deeply ideological war. They each represent what the other one hates the most, and they each depend on the other to stay alive until the other bends to his will.
The last each one of them wants is to kill the other.

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#46 to #24 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

Eh, I never liked the "But it's an ideological war!" excuse. To me, if someone murdered my family and loved-ones, had the opportunity to stop it, and didn't because "Well, you see son...if they die, they win, it's an ideological thing..." I would go on a rampage.

I wonder if all those crying mothers, grieving fathers, sleepless siblings, and spouses with ruined lives are in any way comforted by those words of yours. If it justifies ANYTHING at all.

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#78 to #46 - moetron (12/24/2014) [-]

the joker and batman are insane tho

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#90 to #78 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

Indeed they are.

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#48 to #46 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

That's how our world works too tho
Whole prison system and such

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#49 to #48 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

And I hate that all the same. I think major criminals should be denied human rights and experimented upon for the benefit of humanity while minor criminals would go into forced labour (adding experience onto their resume, of course; while absolving their criminal record upon their release so that they are able to get a job and keep one).

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#50 to #49 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

funnyjunk.com/Nothing+s+sacred+anymore/funny-pictures/5398773/35#35
That's where this comes in

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#51 to #50 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

I don't exactly care what a psychotic mass-murderer who's head I split open thinks about me or the 'won game'.

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#52 to #51 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

Killing a killer makes you as bad as one
Blood on your hands, one way, or another

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#53 to #52 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

I don't care if I'm as bad as one. I care about saving lives and preventing the deaths of hundreds of thousands, giving others a chance to be happy and safe.

If doing that makes me a villain, I'd say you need a far bigger morality check than I do.

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#54 to #53 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

Point of view
That's all

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#55 to #54 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

Stand by the corpses of all those murdered by him, and ask them if point of view matters.

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#65 to #55 - captainprincess ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

Doesn't make yours special

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#66 to #65 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

I never said it was, which is why I'm not bringing point of view into this, I'm bringing facts and logic; the fact being that by killing one, thousands are saved, and logic dictating this is the proper choice.

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#67 to #66 - captainprincess ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

It's your point of view you've been talking about though
There is no way you're not bringing it into this
It is half of "this"

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#68 to #67 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

No it isn't. It is EMPIRICALLY better, in a way that can be actually measured, not even morally or ethically, but in practical nature, that 1,000 lives are worth more than 1 (disregarding achievements/traits of said people).

What you're suggesting is that it's 'personal opinion' that it is better to be smart than dumb. Or that it is better to be primitive than try to make new technologies. I mean, yeah, some advantages can be gained from one that the other lacks in any case, and surely there are people, however few they are, who would rather do the latter, but that doesn't change the fact that these people are a grand minority for a reason, and that reason is because it's just stupid and has been proven many times to be so by the advantages far outweighing the costs.

It's not as if we're arguing about which colour is best for muscle shirts, we're arguing that the value of a multiple good, innocent lives are worth far more than the life of a psychotic maniac. The only reason you would ever disagree is either because you want to antagonize me, or you just lack the conviction to go anywhere in life aside from Wallmart and political Facebook posts.

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#69 to #68 - captainprincess ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

It's still your point of view that you're talking about
Don't go throwing your massive rants about empirically better this and pragmatic that

you're talking about your point of view
your perspective
your ideology which involves this pragmatic approach

You're not going to get far pretending you're not, and trying to act like you're speaking only about cold logic, especially after throwing out some sappy **** about corpses

Your point of view
is not special
you and many others agree with it
whilst many others disagree

deal with it
you crybaby

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#70 to #69 - captainfuckitall (12/24/2014) [-]

Okay.

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#139 to #65 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

if his isn't special, than why should point of view be mentioned at all in this discussion, it doesn't matter right?

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#140 to #139 - captainprincess ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

Not what that means chumley
It means his point of view is no different to the opposing one
other than they are differing views

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#59 to #52 - kanedam ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

Thats where the viewpoints differentiate.

Who is the worse one in the following example.

1)A man declares to keep on killing innocent people no matter what, the only chance to stop him is to shoot him. Someone does that and has killed that guy to prevent him from murdering many more people.
2)A man declares to keep on killing innocent people no matter what, the only chance to stop him is to shoot him. The person (lets call him joe) able to stop him explains that h joe cant do that, because if he shot that guy joe would have bloods on his hands. So the other guy keeps on killing countless lives.

WOuldnt you agree that in scenario two the person has even more blood on theyr hands then in scenario one? Where is the justice in sacrificing other people to keep your own hands clean?

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#138 to #52 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

no, It doesn't because you could equally say that not killing a killer who you know will kill thousands will make you worse.

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#26 to #24 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

yeah AND SINCE WHEN DID WE START CONCERNING ABOUT THE BELIEFS OF A MADMAN.

i know this copy paste. i know about the whole ordeal. but this whole thing just shows how insane batman is to actually play with joker this way.

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#27 to #26 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

The whole thing is just a clash of ideals, Batman believes that killing anyone would make him as bad as them, Joker's beliefs are rather cloudy and obscure since not a lot is known about him, he's just a madman. Batman and Joker are two sides of the same coin, as said in many renditions of Batman series, they both suffered something tragic and ended up being absolutely opposite, that's where the big topic comes in about what you take from happenings, you can either take it as a lesson and drive forward towards the good of others and yourself or do the opposite, it's really not something that's black and white, the whole ideology clash idea.

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#29 to #27 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

well cry me a ******* river.

batmans "ideological war" againts a madman with no definite goal and almost zero chance or recovery has gotten more people killed than he has ever saved in his entire life.

good. IS NOT nice. sometimes you have to do "bad" things to stop worse things from happening.

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#30 to #29 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

Why do you think people were so outraged when in the Man of Steel movie Superman just straight up snaps Zod's neck? It's just the fact that a hero doesn't end up killing someone, if they do, they're nothing better than the man they kill and show how they've been broken, even heroes are considered criminals for crimes, f.e. Batman: The Brave and the Bold - Game over for Owlman. Heroes are there to show the good side, even if good doesn't mean nice, it doesn't mean that you have the right to be evil. It's even a reason not too many prison have executions anymore.

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#31 to #30 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

because superman could have easily subdued him using non lethal methods and then send zod to phantom zone or give him a fair trial

joker has been given the death sentance several times but always escaped through some hole in the law book that its not even funny anymore.

and as for the rest of it: you gave me an out of universe example. ofcourse i dont want an extremely well made character from one of my favourite comic book series to die. but it doesnt mean that batman is pretty dumb for not finishing joker off.

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#35 to #31 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

It honestly just comes down to your own point of view when it comes to this.
I personally wouldn't be able to live down the deaths of many by his hands but I also wouldn't kill him myself, the best thing in my eyes is crippling him.
You might just go straight up kill him and be done with it and just live down the fact that he basically won his mind game with you.

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#37 to #35 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

i guess thats what separates great men and "heroes"

to put it poetically.

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#57 to #37 - kanedam ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

nah, its just a cheap american thing.

authors with little understanding of how the world works, living in a nice cozzy place imagining all these heroes and **** that have to fight evil.
most of them just dont even understand the difference between good and lawfull.

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#81 to #57 - anonassassin ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

I think that's the whole point of the "Injustice" series. It shows us what would happen if said heroes, in this case superman, decides to take the law into his own hands. It's a slippery slope, but it has some truth to it. Once you do something, you tend to think that it's fine if you do it again if there aren't any negative side effects. In the comics, Superman's interventions were beneficial to the world. However, as he continued helping, his actions became more dictatorial until he became a dictator himself. He went so far as to making his own private army to patrol the world so that no crime would take place. He traded the freedom of the world for its security. Crime rates may have been reduced to zero, but at what cost? Armed guards patrolling cities and a super powered dictator with his own super powered allies effectively ruling the world.

People began to disagree with him and what happens? imgur.com/a/k1T0S This happened. Was it justified? Yes because he was using force that could hurt civilians. Was there a way to resolve it without killing him? Yes there was, but they had become accustomed to killing as a means of neutralizing threats. When you have power like they do, it becomes easy to lose restraint and go too far.

That is why they still abide by the law. They do not kill, because when they do, they become less heroic. They keep their morals because if they choose to lower their morals, they start taking laws into their own hands. Then right and wrong is what they say is right and wrong.

Holy crap that post was long.

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#82 to #81 - kanedam ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

please dont even get me started on that ******** ...

superman comics have so many logical flaws and inconsistencies that its a pain to read them...

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#100 to #82 - anonassassin ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

Can I take a moment to ask why you use ellipses instead of periods?
Anyways. If you say so, I can't force you to read what you don't feel like reading.

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#112 to #100 - kanedam ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

i'm reading through the injustice league comics right now...

and i honestly am surprised that its either the heroe doesnt kill or he becomes a dictator...
like, is every president of the united states a dictator because you have death penalties?

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#175 to #112 - angelious (12/25/2014) [-]

injustice comics superman while not the best guy actually does little wrong himself.

he killed joker wich we all agree was a good thing. and then he took over earth and stopped wars (batmans view point in this,while valid was still as ****** as his no killing joker policy) after that everything bad that has happened have been because of either wonder woman wonder bitching, sinestro being a space lucifer or batman and the troupe antagonizing superman.

he never actually went out to do bad things himself without any pushing from one of these parties in any point. and whenever he did something bad it was by a mistake or a slip. and he usually tried to reprimand it instead of giving excuses.

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#176 to #175 - angelious (12/25/2014) [-]

anonassasin

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#62 to #57 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

well thats one way to put it.

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#58 to #35 - kanedam ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

An important part of it (in my view) is the selfishness of batman:

Putting your own ideals higher than what is good for society.

Imagine a house is burning and there are kids inside and someone who could easily help says: nah, i would never enter a house i havent been invited to. thats just rude.
sure, he can hold on to his believe and values, and it wouldnt be his fault that the kids die...

but its still an asshole way of doing things. and batman keeps doing exactly that. so what if batman loses? Is he so arrogant that he cant make a move that makes him lose for the sake of others? Is it more important to be right and the moral winner than to save cuontless peoples life?

And dont give me that "heroes arent supposed to kill". Enough heroes do kill on a regular basis. It's just those dc and marvel black and white stories that dont dare to do these moves. NO burglar is ever a nice guy who's got no food for his kids. All criminals are evil. And at the same time you dont get really ****** up criminals (sure, masterminds and maniacs, but nothing like the average childporn guy, and so on). The whole moral of these comicsbooks is ******** and childish.
rorschach ftw

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#34 to #31 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

There were still ways around it, they could have pulled the ye' old ''see the light'' ass pull.

That varies a lot when it comes to adaptations, and ass pulls have been a huge thing in comics for ages now, less so lately.

Simpler example would be, arguing with someone, and knocking them out mid argument and declaring yourself a winner, there are ways you're supposed to deal with something and in comics it's stopping them without killing them, obviously, that might change with every take on it.

And to the added point: ~~What the **** did you just say about me you little bitch I'll have you know I have over 300 confirmed kills...~~ Seriously tho, it varies a lot from the take on it, in some adaptations he's in prison without a way of escaping and just dies there, they use it a lot just to make the series continue. It's rather hard to say anything about it when not talking about a specific adaptation of Batman.

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#36 to #34 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

because the "see the light" speeches have worked so well for joker in the past.

and since when is arguing with someone equal to trying to stop a mass murdering clown from murdering innocent civilians?

also yes. most self defense classes teach that if you feel like the argument might turn into a fight you better be prepared to throw the first punch and punch it so that the other guy wont throw a punch back.

and again. there is a canon dc universe continuity. where joker escapes from arkham every sunday and has batman bring him back after a heated night of love.

and even in most of the elseworld continuities joker escapes from jail every sunday.

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#33 to #30 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

oh and sorry for not mentioning that irl example of not having executions. i sort of dozed off thinking you were going to make another pointless rant about philosophy of good and evil.

so here is my point for that:

there is not a single human being on earth who has as high kill count as joker. nor are our prisons made out of cardboard like the ones in arkham or strykers. so its a moot point.

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#38 to #21 - abcdxyz (12/24/2014) [-]

That approach would be more along the lines of utilitarianism, which has been something that batman is against (and in the injustice comics here superman has been overwhelmingly for).

Batman is more about virtue in a sense. Both the Joker and Batman have suffered terrible loses. The Joker went off the deep end and decided to prove that everyone was twisted, and would never truly hold to any sort of code or have any true virtue. Batman went a little crazy from losing his parents, but believes that the world has good in it and he wants to hold onto one central virtue: He does not have to kill someone to have justice. The Joker wants Batman to kill him so that he shows that these self imposed rules are ridiculous, meanwhile Batman wants to capture the Joker with his rules to prove to himself that there is real value to virtue in society.

What you're talking about is utilitarianism, and like I said Superman becomes real big on it in the Injustice comics. He feels that the ends justify any means, and if killing one person means saving two then he is going to do it. Rules become irrelevant however, and this system however can go against the concepts of law and justice that Batman stands for.

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#40 to #38 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

its called being pragmatic.

looking at the overall picture instead of fretting over insignificant things like "moral victories " or "virtues of a good man"

and killing joker isnt about "kill one save 2" its about kill 1 madman to save thousands of innocents.

and as for supermans deal in injustice gods: just about everything that goes wrong there is because of other people. wonder woman being a wonder bitch, not taking aquaman as his advisor,batman antagonizing superman, space lucifers goading towards torture, green lanterns decision that they dont like superman being in charge of earth.

superman himself rarely ever does anything wrong. and whenever he does he is horrified by it and tries to rectify it, only to be stopped by one of the four players in it: batman( who goes on to rant about how superman is evil) wonder woman (who goes on to rant about how it was justified) sinestro(who plays it off as nessesary) or spectre (who is really the last person you should ask advices on how to be a good guy considering he is literally just vengeance given flesh)

and yet again. batman ignores the fact that thousands of people are dying all over gotham because of joker for the sake of proving himself "right" to a madman.

does that sound smart to you?

hey you crippled my best friends daughter,killed dozen of people, killed my adopted son, nearly killed one my best friends, several times have you nearly destroyed gotham city,you are single most notorious criminal in gotham, you are completely bonkers and you have almost succeeded in destroying the omniverse on one occasion, and you will props be able to top these tthings off in the future BUT ATLEAST I GOT THE MORAL VICTORY HERE!

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#42 to #40 - tkfourtwoone (12/24/2014) [-]

So you'd be killing one person on the premise that you'd prevent countless other crimes... that he didn't commit yet.

Y'all ****** need to watch Minority Report. And some basic morals classes.

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#43 to #42 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

joker has already done more crimes than everybody else on earth put together. there is almost zero chance that he would reform , he will break out of his prison again, and he will kill,murder and maim people yet again.

yes. yes i would kill him.

in that instant i would most likely save more people than batman ever has in his entire co rear.

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#25 to #21 - josuke (12/24/2014) [-]

Hope it explains what you want to know

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#8 - vorarephilia

(12/24/2014) [-]

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#122 - playerdous (12/24/2014) [-]

I prefer the dark night ending of joker.

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#97 - almaster (12/24/2014) [-]

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#72 - bananauser (12/24/2014) [-]

CONTEXT! Put this section in context! This is all happening in Superman's head after he was drugged by Batman, after being rather pissed off with Batman for the whole "you don't see my way of helping the world so you're clearly against me" thing.

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#17 - brobafett (12/24/2014) [-]

Daily remind this is why Punisher is the only competent super hero.

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#60 to #17 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

Doesn't the fact that the punisher always kill people always come back to bite him in the ass?

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#64 to #60 - captainprincess ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

Doesn't make him incompetent
It just means there's no end to the filthy scum

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#117 to #17 - thegamegestapo (12/24/2014) [-]

Jason Todd > Frank Castle

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#169 to #117 - brobafett (12/25/2014) [-]

PUNISHER vs RED HOOD - Super Power Beat Down (Episode 12)

Stay salty bird brain.

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#44 to #17 - angelious (12/24/2014) [-]

id claim spectre with a sufficiently goodie two shoes moral host would be the best hero.

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#41 to #17 - tkfourtwoone (12/24/2014) [-]

I'm pretty sure everyone agrees the Punisher is an anti-hero, not a hero.

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#45 to #41 - brobafett (12/24/2014) [-]

[Faggy Avenger Detected]

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#132 to #17 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

Claiming the Punisher is a hero, never mind a superhero, is laughable. He's a ******* nutcase with guns who goes around shooting people. Some of them even deserve it.

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#167 to #132 - brobafett (12/25/2014) [-]

Was lying in your paper just not enough JJ? You have to do it here too?

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#116 to #17 - therealtotodile (12/24/2014) [-]

You misspelled Jason Todd.

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#168 to #116 - brobafett (12/25/2014) [-]

Oh yeah, guess I forgot when Jason Todd killed the entire DC universe. Or when he succeeded in usurping batman as Gotham's real protector. Or the time he finally killed the man turned who sent him to the lazerous pit, effectively avenging what sent him over the edge.

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#75 - europe (12/24/2014) [-]

Finally

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#96 - blademontane (12/24/2014) [-]

Oh ffs man. I literally have that comic open in another tab. I was just about to read it. And now it's all spoiled.

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#39 - frankwest ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

If this were to really happen, The Batman wins. Case closed. **** your idealism, the Batman literally wins because Joking on cock gets his ******* neck wrung. And a major super-criminal is off the streets. Other criminals wouldn't step up either because they'd know they'd die. I fully accept all red thumbs this gets.

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#61 to #39 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

Except batman would just become the joker if that actually happened.
And i don't know about you but having batman as the joker doesn't seem like a good thing to me.

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#63 to #39 - captainprincess ONLINE (12/24/2014) [-]

He'd win the war but
Remember, Batman's not 100% mentally sane himself
He's a man running around in a bat costume

He'd lose the psychological war though see
it's literally the slippery slope thing with these guys

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#71 to #39 - revansfirst (12/24/2014) [-]

Actually Joker won his whole goal through everything is for Batman to kill him. The Joker got what he wanted.

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#80 to #71 - gigaidan (12/24/2014) [-]

Not quite. Batman is turning himself in. He admits he committed a crime and is willing to pay for it. Batman didn't fall into Joker's schemes. He sacrificed himself for his friend's sake.

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#84 to #80 - harkale (12/24/2014) [-]

Joker's goal isn't just for Batman to kill him. He wants to prove that there is "evil" in everyone, and Batman is the only person who conflicts with that world view because he refuses to kill anyone. I still think Batman should kill him, but ideologically, Joker wins their "battle" if Batman ever brings himself to kill, regardless of whether or not he accepts the consequences.

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#89 to #84 - gigaidan (12/24/2014) [-]

Not quite, I believe the Joker wins if Batman justifies killing him just as Superman tried to do so at the beginning of the comics. It's my way of seeing it at least, in Superman point of view, he is doing a greater good by killing the Joker, which could be considered the beginning of a "justified" killing spread, kill villains to protect innocents, thus making Superman evil. In Batman's point of view, he doesn't justify killing the Joker as a way of saving an innocent. He does it because of it, of course, but for him is still a crime, and he despises himself for it. And therein lies the difference, Superman walks it off, Batman hates himself. For Superman the end justifies the means, for Batman that's BS.

I think no one wins in this scenario. Batman killed the Joker, but the Joker couldn't lower him to his level.

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#83 to #80 - revansfirst (12/24/2014) [-]

Because thats what superman wanted to happen.

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#115 to #71 - thegamegestapo (12/24/2014) [-]

NOLAN!!!!

That's only one inferior interpretation. BestJoker is just trying to be funny in the worst possible way.

>>#80,
Batman is literally just a serial killer that is obsessively compelled not to kill. Batman's 'no-kill rule' is a complete juxtaposition to his utterly pragmatic character (the kind that plots against every one of his friends is a massively manipulative fashion), the only logical reason for him not killing is selfish desire to put his own narrow world view over everything Rorschach style. Killing the Joker isn't something Batman has to stop himself doing, it's something he wishes he could but his illness stops him. He's screwed up in the head. That's also why he doesn't use guns, ever. Because either act would make him "the bad guy" in his messed up, traumatised world-view. That's why his "once in a lifetime exception" in the Final Crisis was so significant, it marked a recovery from his life long issues and is basically the only time he was a true hero.

In a darker vein, this panel similarly shows Bruce having overcome his condition and doing something for the greater good. I'm curious where they're going with it because by turning himself in Bruce is also doing the opposite of what Clark did by accepting Joker's murder as a crime rather than a crusade. Since it's all in Supe's head are we supposed to interpret it as Clark regretting his choices?

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#141 to #115 - revansfirst (12/24/2014) [-]

This is also what superman wanted him to do. and your theory is just speculation.

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#152 to #71 - crimsongungnir ONLINE (12/25/2014) [-]

Still, Joker getting what he wanted it a small price to pay for the Joker not being able to hurt anyone anymore.

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#165 to #152 - revansfirst (12/25/2014) [-]

but people like Batman or any true hero in DC wont kill the Joker The To them the Means (killing the Joker) dose not justify the ends (saving lives). The view that you hold is utilitarian which is something that Batman is against. Batman will not willingly kill the Joker. Even if it saves lives. I know Batman's logic is twisted. He is messed up mentally just like the Joker is. I don't see him killing anyone any time soon.

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#106 - baditch (12/24/2014) [-]

Injustice is awesome because it lets the writers break their own rules without the consequences of it being 100% cannon.

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#77 - meanboner (12/24/2014) [-]

oh my god, thank you so much. I've been looking everywhere for these comics!

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#12 - Forfunaccount (12/24/2014) [-]

Source: The Killing Joke.

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#120 - juter (12/24/2014) [-]

To be fair, it was in a dream

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#127 to #120 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

people on here should know that batman never kills. its part of his code. no matter how badly he wants to do it he never will. any batman fan would know this.

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#133 to #127 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

except that isn't true.
He HAS killed.

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#150 to #133 - lolgonewrong (12/25/2014) [-]

intentional-/-accidental

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#146 to #133 - dorfdorfdorf (12/25/2014) [-]

so you're saying accidental deaths are the same thing?

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#163 to #146 - RockyTheEvilRock (12/25/2014) [-]

thats the exact opposite of what he just said

you sound like a sjw

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#164 to #163 - dorfdorfdorf (12/25/2014) [-]

see comment >>#150, asshole.

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#171 to #164 - playerdous (12/25/2014) [-]

He meant to do =/=

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#177 to #171 - dorfdorfdorf (12/25/2014) [-]

yeah. i know.

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#178 to #177 - playerdous (12/25/2014) [-]

Then the faults on you for somehow getting the polar opposite of what he was saying.

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#179 to #178 - dorfdorfdorf (12/25/2014) [-]

obviously you're missing something.

>>#150 meant that even though batman may have accidentally killed, he never intentionally killed. >>#146 meant that accidental deaths aren't the same as purposeful killings.

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#180 to #179 - playerdous (12/25/2014) [-]

He clearly said they aren't the same with the "=/=" symbol.

You then claim that he's saying they are the same thing.

Even with the "?" it carries the same tone.

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#181 to #180 - dorfdorfdorf (12/25/2014) [-]

what are you missing? i never, ever, EVER claimed that 150 meant that accidental killing and intentional killing are the same. I SAID THE LITERAL OPPOSITE.

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#160 to #127 - guitarassassin (12/25/2014) [-]

He actually came close to killing The Joker in Hush. Hell, he was set on doing it. Gordon stopped him though, and he realized just how idiotic the choice would've been.

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#102 - iamcraig (12/24/2014) [-]

JOKER'S SONG (Full song) by Miracle Of Sound

Semi related

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#109 to #102 - akinto (12/24/2014) [-]

Been listening to this on repeat the past couple of days

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#88 - anon (12/24/2014) [-]

**** all these ''joker won'' comments. Joker ******* died. there is nothing to win for him anymore no mcdonalds either Now there won't be hundreds of deaths because of him.Batman killed someone boo ******* hoo everyone would appreciate what he did and if he goes mad just because he gave up on his ideology of not killing mass murderers he is kind of a ******* asshole. I know this is just a dream of superman btw

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#107 to #88 - drakenumen (12/24/2014) [-]

Just for the record this is taking place inside of a dream superman is having, I don't know if you know or not but in the actual story of the comic superman killed the joker.

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