I honestly disliked most fights in the prequels. I mean, I know why the did it, but they seemed WAY too over the top for me to like them. the ones in the vid would have been perfect, actually..
If you truly think that then you completely miss the point of what lightsaber duels mean to the narrative and thematic elements of the characters and story.
the choreography is to make them seem superhumanly skilled at dueling, as Jedi and Sith are.
you want us to 'educate' ourselves about our own opinions, and the material you present for learning is nothing more than a boring man talking **** about the movie. Congratulations on your enlightment
you should actually watch Mr. Plinketts reviews on the prequels we brings up a lot of good points points on why they almost destroyed the franchise. And the voice is just a thing the guy does; it's a character (if you watch the rest you'll understand).
I have and i dislike it. Obnoxious voice with lots of nitpicks points, once in a while he provides some fair points but most of the time its just complaining. If you were to do the same reviews towards tje original movies they also would seem like awful movies.
idk they were kinda meh but that can be forgiven
a weakness of the time, where coreographing violence was probably reserved for bigger brands of the era
I'll stand by this to the grave but, for all their faults, the prequels had the best lightsaber duels of the franchise
I imagine the new series will wind up having something on par. 7 had a fantastic excuse, one so good I would even call it a reason; everyone that holds a lightsaber in that movie is very inexperienced, even Kylo Ren, who has never fought another Jedi before. Of course they are going seem inept; they ARE inept!
Of course they did, and I have no problem to say that Yoda entering the hall on Geonosis, then throwing away his walking stick and turns ******* was one of the best moments for me in the entire franchise
I liked II more than III in some aspects, the other way around in others. Really hard to tell what I like more. By the way, in all fairness, maybe the fighting in VII was not as good because the respective characters are storywise supposed to be pretty much amateurs, save for Kylo Ren, but still
Yeah I understand that the two duelists are both soppy nerds who dont know what theyre doing, so maybe their fight was lame for story reasons
But the fact still remains, VII had the worst most pathetic lightsaber duels I'veseen in an official star wars production
And for reasons or no that's kind of disappointing
Eh, I didnt feel like that, but I can see where youre coming from. This way or another, we can both agree on that theres always room for improvement. Luke vs Snoke ultra fight 2018
that wont be a lightsaber duel though
that'd be a force battle
I mean luke's been living without his lightsaber for a decade or two
and Snoke looks like the kind of "I'm not getting up out of my chair if I can help it" kind of sith lord whos all about the dank dark magic ****
"Cloudcity" alright, he just came there to meet his homie Jamal Lando for the wares. In all seriousness I think there are some great duels to come, I think that should be the least of worries. Disney can afford the best choreographers of the world
"Disney can afford the best choreographers of the world."
"Not to mention the fights in episode 4-6."
You see, the lightsaber duels in the original movies wasn't about the choreography, it was about the characters. Considering the Empire strikes back is one of the best films ever made by many, you may have missed the point entirely. The movies aren't just so that people can stare blankly at a movie screen for two hours waiting for the next action scene to come along. They're made for you to care about the characters and have a few more neurons working in tandem than the average kid. The confrontation between Vader and Luke on Bespin was the consequence of Luke disobeying Yoda, for Yoda saw that Luke was no where near ready to take on a Sith lord. Vader is talking the whole time during the fight, Luke is no match for him. That principle extends into Return as well. When Vader is taunting Luke, Luke bursts into an outrage, wailing on Vader with no grace or form, eventually slicing his hand off. It's about the emotion and why we even are in the theatre in the first place. Because we care about the characters. I don't really give a shred of a damn about Darth Maul because I had no idea why he was in the movie except to give the teenagers a lightsaber duel. That's where the prequels fell apart for me, they were all spectacle, no substance. I don't know about you but I like to be invested in a movie or series. But I could possibly tell by my quotes you don't really care for storytelling, which may be understandable; but will get my criticism nonetheless.
And i do care about the characters in the prequels, i do. I feel invested in every lightsaber fight in the saga because i enjoy the characters. My favourite duel is RotJ.
Also, if you wrote this by yourself im impressed but it sounds an awful lot like RLM rant on the prequels, so im assuming you copied it.
Impressive. I thought you just looked up a quote from the RLM reviews and copied them but if you actually wrote all this im impressed, even if i disagree.
I've been MIA for a bit, but don't get me wrong. I love the ideas of the sith and jedi, conflicting with each other and eventually the Sith get the upper hand. I do like the fact that Anakin's major character trait is that is afraid of loss, which almost everyone can relate to, considering the rules of the Jedi. That's where I disagree with plinkett on occasions, the prequels expanded the lore, yet I beleive it could have been told more efficiently. Now I don't hate the prequels indiscriminately, Mcdiarmid killed it as emperor, and if Christensen were given the right direction and focus, he could have made a great "conflicted and morally confused" Jedi. It's the reason I like Kylo so much, I think Anakin should have behaved like him. Conflicting emotions with outbursts of adolescence and foolery. But I agree the clone wars should have had clones as villains as RLM suggested; no disrespect to a droid commander like you. But I honestly felt there was some wasted potential in the movies. I know Greivous was a badass in the cartoons but I'm thinking about the movie timeline. I'm open to dissenting opinions, because I like to discuss. I do, however feel Empire is one of the best movies ever made, even though the middle gets slow at points. Yoda was there to teach the audience about the force, even at my age it fills me with awe when I hear that clip on youtube or in the movies.
But to put it into cannon logic Luke got like two weeks of training with yoda and has no ******* idea what he is doing. Vader was going easy on him attempting to turn him, but holds back on their final confrontation since he feels for his son, which ends up poking the wrong buttons putting luke into a blind rage something Vader wasn't expexting
lol are you seven? I can agree that the fight in ANH is "boring" and anticlimactic, but the scenes in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi are filled with emotion and demonstrate the dynamics between Luke and Vader
What fights are your favorite? When little old cartoon Yoda is flipping around fighting Dooku/Sidious with nothing actually happening? Or is it when Anakin and Obi Wan fight in lava for like twenty minutes and do some stupid ass tarzan swings?
Mate, the nostalgia is the only thing that makes those scenes appear as great as you describe it, face it. Its not even a bad thing, but the fights in the newer episodes are simply much mroe fluent and dynamic, which is also due to newly available technic
Yeah it's all nostalgia, that's exactly why Empire Strikes Back is regarded as one of the best science fiction movies of all time. Forget the characters, plot, dialogue, motives, etc. because it's all nostalgia
But those go along with the lightsaber duels and make them even more enjoyable. They arent just action scenes. They have meaning and purpose because of these aspects
Excuse you, that fight was ******* intense. It's not just about the actual fencing. It's about the emotion portrayed through the characters during the fight. The prequels forgot that. VII is bringing it back to some extent.
It didnt come through for me
You can bring any emotion into a conflict but thats never what makes it intense, atleast not to me
Any combatant can be angry or upset
Even a skilled warrior can be confused, distraught, in pain
The fight just didn't have that urgency in it
Even with the planet cracking around them it felt like a pair of stroppy teenagers slapping at eachother with socks
You gotta remember that Kilo got shot by Wookie's blaster, which they purposely showed off how strong it was, the other saber users never held a saber before and none of they hardly had any training, Kilo killed the other apprentices before they became Jedi Order so he didn't have much experience at all. So it's like backstabbing and shooting someone while they're sleeping and saying you won fairly and are the strongest (there were stormtroopers around him on the flashback)
Well at least that's what I used as an understandable excuse.
Watching this I thought "Man that Sith keeps retreating like a bitch.", but watching it again I guess he was taking a step back to get a plan going.
I liked how the Jedi dude was going all at him nonstop, but ultimately his offense was not enough and he gave into his anger and lost.
Im a sucker for these role-plays dont judge me.
I'll never be as good as him.
But my co-worker also got one and were going to practice with them after work. Do some choreography, maybe some duels. Who knows.
You know, I've never been a huge fan of the extremely choreographed fights like this. It just feels far too... fake, I guess. And I know that they're not really supposed to be real or anything.
I don't know, to me, they just feel like they're dancing more than fighting. Whenever I see someone spin in a fight all I think is 'why are you showing your back to them?' and stuff like that.
I very much like the fights in episodes 4-6, they just feel far more real and visceral to me.
I'm aware. And while I still think the same things then, too, the spins and jumps are a lot less frivolous in the originals, mostly because of the limitations of film making at the time. And I did say in my comment that I know they're not supposed to feel 'real', I'm just stating the my opinion is of the nature that they _ should_ be more realistic, is all.
seriously ? I hated the fight between vader and obi in episode 4, they were just slapping their sword together and it all felt really inti-climatic to me.
Some people have different tastes in fight choreography and there is a difference between "This choreography is good." and "What am I watching, Circe Du Soleil?!"
That is objectively the worst choreographed fight scene in the series, but it is arguably still one of the best because every line spoken in it is meaningful. "When last we met I was but the learner, now I am the master." "Only a master of evil, Darth." "If you strike me do-" you get the idea.
A fight is more than just spinny glowsticks. It is about the emotion going on in the scene and a lot of the prequel fights have about as much emotion in them as the sterile, CGI backdrops lazily plastered on in the after-effects.
So to you, bennybroseph, cisdroidcommander, and busfullofllamas, I think we can all agree that whilst the Vader vs Obi Wan duel is really fukken clumsy, the Darth Maul duel ain't much better:
Not really. If this is one of the best because of the relationship between Obi Wan and Vader, does that mean that Dooku vs Yoda also is one of the best duels? I mean, the battle itself isnt great but the way they talk as a fallen student versus his old master also have some good exchange between them and gives us a clear picture of their previous relationship.
Im also not a fan of your linked video, ive seen it several times and i disagree. Ofcourse if you pause the fight every second of it you might notice some of the less subtle choreography, but if you watch it without nitpicking it to death by pausing you will barely see it.
Also,i like each duel in the saga. Cause while the duel in episode 4 certainly has aged i still like it.
I also feel that the duel of fates in episode 1 is emotional. Qui Gon was a good character and his death was emotional to me. All around a fantastic duel.
See, my point in commen >>#51 was just to point out that both 4 and 6 have some spins and jumps, not that they were bad duels. I personally have Luke vs Vader in episode 6 as my favourite duel.
*sigh* I'm probably gonna upset you so gird your loins if you're gonna read on here:
The reason the Dooku/Yoda exchange is different is partially because the dialogue really isn't as good, partially because the setting is less powerful, partly because Yoda goes through the whole fight with a cocky grin on his face and a level of confidence demonstrating that he isn't taking this as seriously as Obi Wan took the fight in the Death Star, partly because the choreography is utterly daft, but mostly because Yoda in this context is largely unimportant.
If Yoda died there then it'd be sad, yeah, but that'd only be because he's Yoda, not because he has done anything of real interest or note in the film up until that point. When Ben fought he was clearly out-matched, surrounded by enemy troops, and to top it all off his death means there is nobody left (at that point at least) to guide Luke in the ways of the force.
We had also seen him all throughout the film being this wise mentor figure who was out in the world with answers to everything, clearly learned through years of experience, and whose teachings are specifically important to Luke. However, Yoda doesn't have any of that. It is certainly implied that he is a very wise figure of importance but he really doesn't demonstrate anything beyond "I'm the leader of the Jedi" in that film.
Both fights are between a master and a pupil but there's not many ways the two could be more different.
And yeah, the linked vid is taking some pretty cheap shots, but it makes a bunch of good points like the spinning which has never made sense regardless of what film it is in, and how it's clear the fight is all about whacking glowsticks together instead of a life or death struggle, and it points out some of the really ****** choreography that probably looked like a good idea at the time, and how the choreography undermines the point of the scene due to how characters actively avoid hitting one-another a lot of the time.
I can't say I like all of the duels. I love moments in most of the duels, but there aren't many that I like the whole way through. I love how ******* menacing Greivous looks when he's spinning his sabers around and walking towards Obi Wan but then there's the chase in the wheel thingy and with the giant iguana that just feels to me to be super self-indulgeng, and then BOOM! Shoots the ****** in the heart! I can't stand that sort of silly faff, but those moments when Greivous is truly intimidating, and holy crap what a way to kill him... bellissima.
I extend this beyond the movies btw. I feel the same way about the Video Games and the Clone Wars cartoons. The Jedi Knight games have some fantastic fight scenes, even if they're really poorly choreographed due to gameplay restrictions. Even if it's a kinda clumsy game style the fights you get into are damn cool and super tense to the point where anyone with a Lightsaber that shows up in front of you is a genuine threat that is probably gonna kill you at least once on the higher difficulties (though again, partly due to the clunky controls.)
And to the Clone Wars series too, both the 2D and the CG ones. The introduction of Grievous in Gandy Tartakovsky's animation style is ******* beautiful, and every fight in that series is utter bliss, not because they're flashy and over the top, but because they cut out all of the unnecessary faff and focus on what is most important. And that scene with Anakin and Ventress in the rain... oh my god...
As for Qui Gon? This is where it gets upsetting because he's really not a good character. He makes a load of terrible decisions, he shows no emotion throughout the film, we know nothing about him. He is really one-dimentional and whilst that has some merit for world-building and imagination (Hello Boba Fett) it's not good for one of the leading characters in the film.
I would just like to say good job. You did a good job of backing up your points, sadly because it new years eve i dont have time to respond just now, but i will be back to share my thoughts. Bye for now. I will reply tomorrow when i have time.
Sorry, i really dont feel like writing a long comment and partake in a big discussion. I will say that while i disagree at points in your texts your reply was well written and i respect your opinion.
And yes, Asajj vs Anakin in the rain is a great lightsaber duel.
Appreciated. I try to make sense when I criticise stuff. Like, I dislike Episode 7 for a bunch of reasons but Tr8-T0r is awesome, as is captain Phasma's design, and I really love the idea of being tempted by the light and a Darth Vader fanboy trying to fully commit to the dark side instead of just another complete dickbean or someone who is very clearly just being an idiot (Like Rosh from Jedi Academy.)
Balance in all things, as I'm sure Yoda would say... though he'd probably phrase it differently and in the wrong order.
i feel like jedi would never have a blue and green lightsaber, blue is for sentinels and greed is for consulars. The color is based on the type of jedi u are. pretty sure u cant double dip that ****
I have never bought into the color coding for Jedi classes. It is simply a convenient way to differentiate the Jedi in films and in video games. Considering each lightsaber is unique to its wielder, Samuel L. Jackson proved that a Jedi can have whatever color lightsaber they want to have.
that would be cool but she's probably just going to use anakin's lightsaber, even though it would be much easier for her to use a double bladed version
Besides for the already mentioned stuff you can see pretty unneccercary stuff like jumping/turning 360 degrees while fighting which is quite unnecercary.
It's a shame this was more entertaining then all of the fights scenes in the new star wars combined... He could have done anything he wanted
spoilers No bounty hunters, 1.5 Jedi, minimal invasions, death star 3.0, Leia, Han, Chewy in a forest again, father son catwalk again. The guy couldn't beat a basic bitch who just found out she was a Jedi but he could stop a goddamn laser midair then release it at full speed?? I mean what the **** Abrams...