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#1
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chris chris (12/30/2015) [-] why dont they just make a healthcare program, instead of an insurance program for healthcare?
i know the answer is because of 'mericans, question was rhetorical obviously
i know the answer is because of 'mericans, question was rhetorical obviously
#2 to #1
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makomirocket (12/30/2015) [-] cost prohibitive? Im a britbong so NHS, they're all set up and run by the NHS with a few private hospitals. US I'd guess are all private, so to do the health care, they'd have to take over all of the hospitals rather than just cover the costs and quickly and more streamlinedly just adapt to the system they've already got
#3 to #2
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limberlarry (12/30/2015) [-]
America spends more per person on healthcare than any other country
#9
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asmodeu (12/30/2015) [-] Why is Obamacare getting so much hate ?
In my country we have a similar program: basically we pay 10% of our gross salaries to an organization responsible with keeping state owned hospitals "alive" (paying salaries, supplying, repairs, staff etc) and they are also responsible with giving pensions to retired people.
Now, this would work way better if there just wasn't so much corruption - lots of those funds end up in some fat bastard's account who will buy their 5th car to put on display in the underground garage of his / her mansion.
We still get free consultations, cheap medication and free emergency procedures (surgery of all sorts, if the hospital is equipped to handle them). Though.. another downside to this is that everyone takes bribes for anything in emergency hospitals. You want your nurse to smile and not stab the **** of your vein while she puts you on IV ? Bribe her.
The system is good though, just the people are **** .
Romania
In my country we have a similar program: basically we pay 10% of our gross salaries to an organization responsible with keeping state owned hospitals "alive" (paying salaries, supplying, repairs, staff etc) and they are also responsible with giving pensions to retired people.
Now, this would work way better if there just wasn't so much corruption - lots of those funds end up in some fat bastard's account who will buy their 5th car to put on display in the underground garage of his / her mansion.
We still get free consultations, cheap medication and free emergency procedures (surgery of all sorts, if the hospital is equipped to handle them). Though.. another downside to this is that everyone takes bribes for anything in emergency hospitals. You want your nurse to smile and not stab the **** of your vein while she puts you on IV ? Bribe her.
The system is good though, just the people are **** .
Romania
#59 to #9
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SemiAnon (12/31/2015) [-] I tried to sign up for healthcare because of that $500 threat on my tax returns, and what I ended with was still not having healthcare because I can't afford $200/month and they know I'm poor so they gave me an exemption code that just means I'm too poor to get sick and they won't fine me.
#29 to #9
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platinumaltaria ONLINE (12/30/2015) [-] Only americans can get angry about improvements to the healthcare system. Which explains why theirs is the most expensive in the world.
#35 to #29
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
If you actually lived here, you'd know obamacare is **** .
#44 to #37
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
www.factcheck.org/2013/09/obamacare-myths/
Also
-eliminated denial for pre-existing conditions
-cracked down on price hikes for no reason
-addressed policy discrimination against trans clients
-kids can stay on parents' plans longer
-people who were blocked off the insurance market now have access and have enrolled like crazy by volunteer, not pressure of a fine, as many of them would be exempt from the fine
-made calling services easier
You really wanna fight this?
Also
-eliminated denial for pre-existing conditions
-cracked down on price hikes for no reason
-addressed policy discrimination against trans clients
-kids can stay on parents' plans longer
-people who were blocked off the insurance market now have access and have enrolled like crazy by volunteer, not pressure of a fine, as many of them would be exempt from the fine
-made calling services easier
You really wanna fight this?
#46 to #44
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
ok?
The healthcare system in the US is built for profit, not for actual healthcare. Obamacare goes past that to regulate health insurance.
But think about what health insurance is. It's another for-profit company group of companies.
If Obamacare existed in a system where the actual healthcare wasn't crazy broken, I might even support it. But instead you rack up a bill of $40,000 for one night in the hospital, the insurance company, or you, have to now cover it. I'm not going to argue this too hard because you're anon and all you did was make a few points that are only supported by a single website link, from a website that looks suspicious and biased. I'll read it anyways I guess
The healthcare system in the US is built for profit, not for actual healthcare. Obamacare goes past that to regulate health insurance.
But think about what health insurance is. It's another for-profit company group of companies.
If Obamacare existed in a system where the actual healthcare wasn't crazy broken, I might even support it. But instead you rack up a bill of $40,000 for one night in the hospital, the insurance company, or you, have to now cover it. I'm not going to argue this too hard because you're anon and all you did was make a few points that are only supported by a single website link, from a website that looks suspicious and biased. I'll read it anyways I guess
#47 to #46
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
>only supported by a single link
Wow, you really don't know the PPACA at all, nor did you even look at the link.
You don't fit reality to your worldview, it's supposed to be the other way around.
Also, don't confuse what was already wrong with the health care problem with Obamacare.
Here, check the sources to everything if it makes you feel better
obamacarefacts.com/benefitsofobamacare/
Fact Check isn't biased by the way, they have neutrality quotas.
Wow, you really don't know the PPACA at all, nor did you even look at the link.
You don't fit reality to your worldview, it's supposed to be the other way around.
Also, don't confuse what was already wrong with the health care problem with Obamacare.
Here, check the sources to everything if it makes you feel better
obamacarefacts.com/benefitsofobamacare/
Fact Check isn't biased by the way, they have neutrality quotas.
#48 to #47
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
I said I'd read it, because I'm actually a realistic person and you're a condescending ass that is afraid of getting red thumbs on funnyjunk
Let's not throw personal insults, it doesn't help the discussion. I'm still reading your link.
Let's not throw personal insults, it doesn't help the discussion. I'm still reading your link.
#51 to #49
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
I don't see the part in the article that talks about price hikes for no reason. "-cracked down on price hikes for no reason"
As far as your point of "-eliminated denial for pre-existing conditions" my response is: duh? it would be pretty damn awkward if you were charging people for not having insurance, but then blocking them from getting it.
just thoughts so far
As far as your point of "-eliminated denial for pre-existing conditions" my response is: duh? it would be pretty damn awkward if you were charging people for not having insurance, but then blocking them from getting it.
just thoughts so far
#53 to #51
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
found it somewhere else though
it also looks like young people get really screwed over if they aren't on their parent's insurance
it also looks like young people get really screwed over if they aren't on their parent's insurance
#56 to #54
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
"The official name for “ObamaCare” is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), or Affordable Care Act (ACA) for short."
After arguing with anon, it looks like obamacare in and of itself isn't as bad as I thought, but I still don't like it. The reason being that insurance companies are for profit, and the healthcare industry in its entirety is for profit. If a single night in a hospital can cost you $40,000 dollars, you know they're just trying to make money off of you. There was even an FJer that posted his bill on here and said he had no idea what to do. People were even pointing out that it would be cheaper to learn Spanish and flee to another country than actually pay that bill.
It looks like, at best, Obamacare helps some people by spreading where the expenses go and who pays for them, but as far as i'm concerned, it's a for-profit industry and healthcare and taking care of people shouldn't have a primary interest of money, but a primary interest in actually saving people.
After arguing with anon, it looks like obamacare in and of itself isn't as bad as I thought, but I still don't like it. The reason being that insurance companies are for profit, and the healthcare industry in its entirety is for profit. If a single night in a hospital can cost you $40,000 dollars, you know they're just trying to make money off of you. There was even an FJer that posted his bill on here and said he had no idea what to do. People were even pointing out that it would be cheaper to learn Spanish and flee to another country than actually pay that bill.
It looks like, at best, Obamacare helps some people by spreading where the expenses go and who pays for them, but as far as i'm concerned, it's a for-profit industry and healthcare and taking care of people shouldn't have a primary interest of money, but a primary interest in actually saving people.
#38 to #35
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platinumaltaria ONLINE (12/30/2015) [-] I can't here you over the sound of my delicious free healthcare :p
#39 to #38
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
Nothing is free, it all gets paid for in your taxes one way or another
Can't figure out if you're trolling or not
Can't figure out if you're trolling or not
#40 to #39
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platinumaltaria ONLINE (12/30/2015) [-] It's genuinely confusing that you haven't figured out that the health of others in your country does actually affect you.
#41 to #40
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
Still can't figure out if you're trolling
I'm not saying healthcare in general is a bad idea, i'm saying Obamacare is **** .
I'm not saying healthcare in general is a bad idea, i'm saying Obamacare is **** .
#43 to #42
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flufflepuff (12/30/2015) [-]
Healthcare in the US is already broken.
Instead of fixing it, Obamacare forces you to have healthcare. It's like pushing you into broken glass.
Instead of fixing it, Obamacare forces you to have healthcare. It's like pushing you into broken glass.
#45 to #43
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platinumaltaria ONLINE (12/30/2015) [-] Hey, you lot would never want a functional system; your rich people don't want to pay for the filthy peasants.
#12 to #9
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
so it's not actually making it that much cheaper, you still have to personally pay up for decent service.
I don't have your numbers, but if you take that 10% you lose every month, and you add the bribes you allso have to pay on top of that, do you think that would suffice to cover your personal health expenses?
yes, you need to pay more per procedure, but you only pay for your own procedures, which shouldn't be that often if you are in decent health.
I don't have your numbers, but if you take that 10% you lose every month, and you add the bribes you allso have to pay on top of that, do you think that would suffice to cover your personal health expenses?
yes, you need to pay more per procedure, but you only pay for your own procedures, which shouldn't be that often if you are in decent health.
#17 to #12
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
The biggest factor which is always forgotten is that preventative healthcare is far more effective than reactionary.
Yes you can pay only for your procedures, in which case most people wait until they 'really need' to go see a doctor which results in far more costly surgeries because now you're actually properly ****** up. If you can access preventative healthcare because you're already covered so don't need to worry about whether or not it's worth not eating this month and finding out what that strange lump is then it actually saves time and money.
Yes you can pay only for your procedures, in which case most people wait until they 'really need' to go see a doctor which results in far more costly surgeries because now you're actually properly ****** up. If you can access preventative healthcare because you're already covered so don't need to worry about whether or not it's worth not eating this month and finding out what that strange lump is then it actually saves time and money.
#18 to #12
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ninjaflapjack (12/30/2015) [-]
Doubt it highly. Americans on average capita spend significantly more of their wealth on health than anywhere else in the world. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capitac
#14 to #11
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rainbowblast (12/30/2015) [-]
Because it's not actually free healthcare, it primarily benefits the poor paid for by the work of the middle class.
#57 to #15
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rainbowblast (12/30/2015) [-]
I mean it should be yea but the rich of the US are well known for dodging taxes and exploiting loopholes.
#26 to #9
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
Obama Care gets people going to hospitals who otherwise wouldn't normally go. Good or bad? Its bad. I don't go to hospitals, I own a VERY small business, and qualify for subsidized care... my girlfriend MAKES me go, I spend hundreds of dollars on co-pays, the government spends thousands of dollars on my premiums and my heart doctor tells me I am in perfect health, which I ******* knew in the first place.
#22 to #9
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
...you say your country has a "similar" program and then describe a program that is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIKE IT.
Obamacare fixes NOTHING. It takes a broken medical field and simply mandates every get the insurance programs that pay for it, and shifts around who's actually paying for all of it.
Obamacare fixes NOTHING. It takes a broken medical field and simply mandates every get the insurance programs that pay for it, and shifts around who's actually paying for all of it.
#50 to #9
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superbluesixtynick (12/30/2015) [-]
Sorry, but it honestly sounds like you live in a socialist hell hole.
#28 to #9
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theplanetearth (12/30/2015) [-] Because socialized medicine doesn't fix anything. It just creates a scenario where you have to pay to not wait for medical treatment that is most of the time better.
#55 to #9
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anon (12/30/2015) [-] 'Obamacare' (Expanded Medicaid) gets a lot of hate simply because of ignorance:
-Many Republican states opted out of 'Obamacare' simply because it has 'Obama' in the name.
-The truth is by rejecting it, anyone who has low income can't get easy access to free healthcare through it.
-You don't want to get healthcare through the Marketplace? That's fine, stick to whatever health plan you had. But the marketplace also makes it easy to find the health plan you want, in pretty clear terms, without all the complicated legal language.
-Many Republican states opted out of 'Obamacare' simply because it has 'Obama' in the name.
-The truth is by rejecting it, anyone who has low income can't get easy access to free healthcare through it.
-You don't want to get healthcare through the Marketplace? That's fine, stick to whatever health plan you had. But the marketplace also makes it easy to find the health plan you want, in pretty clear terms, without all the complicated legal language.
#19 to #9
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
Its okay because you dont really know, but america charges for anything healthcare regardless of your insurance plan, maybe not a lot of people on this site from america even know because the world has a lot to experience. But medical procedures like even the simplest of outpatient surgeries I see costing around 500 to a grand, and if you need to be transported thats another 100 to 200. You'll be paying that medical bill instead of buying food for your children or some **** .... sometimes I feel like the first world is an illusion, and we all live in a third world
#23 to #19
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
???
500 to a grand for surgery? 100 to 200 for transport? Where do you get these figures?
Even the anesthesia for a simple surgery costs a few thousand in the U.S., and a basic surgery is tens of thousands at the least, and any major surgery is hundreds of thousands. An ambulance ride can cost well over a grand. Healthcare in the U.S. is basically monopolistic gouging on a massive scale. They'll charge you $200 for the $0.02 disposable apron thing the surgeon wears.
And Obamacare does nothing to address this. It just demands everyone buys in and shifts around who is actually paying for it.
500 to a grand for surgery? 100 to 200 for transport? Where do you get these figures?
Even the anesthesia for a simple surgery costs a few thousand in the U.S., and a basic surgery is tens of thousands at the least, and any major surgery is hundreds of thousands. An ambulance ride can cost well over a grand. Healthcare in the U.S. is basically monopolistic gouging on a massive scale. They'll charge you $200 for the $0.02 disposable apron thing the surgeon wears.
And Obamacare does nothing to address this. It just demands everyone buys in and shifts around who is actually paying for it.
#27 to #9
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senorfrog (12/30/2015) [-] I don't know all of the legal things or what is good or bad, but I do know because of it none of the doctors do it or any other in expensive health insurance plans, so health insurance is either really expensive here or non existent, and if you see a doctor you are charged out the ass no matter what (Charged more if you have wrong insurance too). Also because of the insurance **** , many doctors quit and moved away.
#5
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kwanzalord (12/30/2015) [-] lol, love that people were like "obama care is the answer to our problems" and it just added to it.
#60 to #34
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kwanzalord (12/31/2015) [-] so...
"I don't know what obamacare is either, but I hear it's popular to support it"???????
"I don't know what obamacare is either, but I hear it's popular to support it"???????
#4
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anon (12/30/2015) [-]
Tried to get healthcare. They gave my wife healthcare. Not me. She has it 2x.
Im sad about it.
Im sad about it.
#30
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kulamia ONLINE (12/30/2015) [-] Falon making fun of Obamacare...huh.
For non-Americans wondering why we don't like it: My wife and I are in the LOWEST tax bracket. We make less than $20,000/yr and until a few weeks ago we were both in school(i just graduated). Luckily for me my insurance in through my parents because my father has an excellent job(city, not private) and keeping me on their insurance didn't cost much. My wife's parents are retired and living pay-check to paycheck and making even less than us, she is 100% on student loans to get her degree, is making less than $10,000/yr and her insurance WENT UP. She is one of those people who Obama care was supposed to HELP but because she's not a single mother, minority, disabled, or former military she gets no help.Why would such a law be introduced that continually benefits people with money and people with different skin colors, yet disenfranchise working people!?
I understand the logic that not enough young, healthy people joined to offset the cost of suddenly supporting older and un/less-healthy people that companies were forced to ensure, but WHY does the cost need to go onto the poor!? **** even socialized health care would be better than this. That's coming from a staunch Conservative.
FYI one of the huge problems with Obama care is saying "the system we have for health care needs work, it's because of corruption, legal battles, and distrust that getting stitches with insurance costs $6,000 while without insurance is costs you $175 out of pocket". Then some politicians come along and say "nah screw all of that, we're going to go for a bastardized version of social welfare, but instead of everyone pay in, everyone is covered- we're going to make everyone pay extra(poor included) ad fine any TAX PAYER(not person, just those who pay taxes) who doesn't want to go along with what we want."
For non-Americans wondering why we don't like it: My wife and I are in the LOWEST tax bracket. We make less than $20,000/yr and until a few weeks ago we were both in school(i just graduated). Luckily for me my insurance in through my parents because my father has an excellent job(city, not private) and keeping me on their insurance didn't cost much. My wife's parents are retired and living pay-check to paycheck and making even less than us, she is 100% on student loans to get her degree, is making less than $10,000/yr and her insurance WENT UP. She is one of those people who Obama care was supposed to HELP but because she's not a single mother, minority, disabled, or former military she gets no help.Why would such a law be introduced that continually benefits people with money and people with different skin colors, yet disenfranchise working people!?
I understand the logic that not enough young, healthy people joined to offset the cost of suddenly supporting older and un/less-healthy people that companies were forced to ensure, but WHY does the cost need to go onto the poor!? **** even socialized health care would be better than this. That's coming from a staunch Conservative.
FYI one of the huge problems with Obama care is saying "the system we have for health care needs work, it's because of corruption, legal battles, and distrust that getting stitches with insurance costs $6,000 while without insurance is costs you $175 out of pocket". Then some politicians come along and say "nah screw all of that, we're going to go for a bastardized version of social welfare, but instead of everyone pay in, everyone is covered- we're going to make everyone pay extra(poor included) ad fine any TAX PAYER(not person, just those who pay taxes) who doesn't want to go along with what we want."
