Don't start a religious shit storm. Credit to for lack of a better comic.. talt, HERE? THE FOR Hum’ -H Armsam HEAVEN K LAHORE GOOD Pool' LE blau. as To CHILL kt funny Religion comic God
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> hey anon, wanna give your opinion?
asd
#103 - shareacokewith [OP]
Reply +12 123456789123345869
(03/01/2014) [+] (7 replies)
stickied by shareacokewith
Hey guys, thanks for helping me reach the front page, massive thanks.

If anyone's interested, I'm currently doing a project for university, and need people to answer a survey, it doesn't matter how old you are, or what you do for a living.

It's six multiple choice questions, and it would mean a lot to me. Thanks in advance!

www.surveymonkey.com/s/7GC8QWT
#117 to #103 - duhqueenmoki
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(03/01/2014) [-]
As a psychology student who also has to send out surveys occasionally, I will help you out  Here's a cat .gif for you. Good luck
As a psychology student who also has to send out surveys occasionally, I will help you out Here's a cat .gif for you. Good luck
User avatar #136 to #103 - carthonasi
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Clicking the link tells me that I already did the survey.


Wat.
User avatar #149 to #103 - timelordjam
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(03/01/2014) [-]
What's it for? i already did it
#226 to #149 - shareacokewith [OP]
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(08/23/2015) [-]
It was for a university project.
User avatar #227 to #226 - timelordjam
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(08/23/2015) [-]
did you just ******* respond to my comment a year and a half later?
#228 to #227 - shareacokewith [OP]
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(08/23/2015) [-]
Yeah, I was reading through some old comments and noticed I never replied and felt that was very unkind of me. Thanks for helping me to get a 1st in my university degree.
User avatar #229 to #228 - timelordjam
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(08/24/2015) [-]
no problem

i think

this is genuinely the longest time between responses i've ever been involved in
#7 - haeckal
Reply +127 123456789123345869
(02/28/2014) [-]
The Christian belief about sin is that yes, you really do have to be 100% perfect to go to Heaven.

However, we're not, because we're all sinners. So we're all going to hell.

Therefore, God sends Jesus, who is the only perfect innocent, to suffer punishment in our place.

If we admit that we are sinners (like "pleading guilty" in court), God will accept Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf (like having someone else pay our fine) and we get to go to Heaven anyway. If we don't, we get punished to the full extent.

It's actually a pretty sweet deal.
User avatar #8 to #7 - kanadetenshi
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(02/28/2014) [-]
It would be a pretty sweet deal if there were actual evidence for this.

God is basically demanding that you should worship him despite giving zero evidence to verify his existence and over 10.000 contrary religions that have the exact same types of reward/punishment systems and you will be tortured infinitely for even having the slightest skepticism purely for standards that are impossible to have.
User avatar #11 to #8 - Proximity
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(02/28/2014) [-]
I'm atheist myself, but it's not as if Christianity has zero evidence. There's plenty of evidence, just not enough to convince me or to counter all opposing evidence of equal merit(As in, I'm not counting "The BIble says so" nor "But that's stupid")

Many very old scrolls and other texts have been found that support the Christian faith
Many non-religious based texts depict things that occurred in the Bible


I'm not about to say God is real and you're wrong, but I must admit that saying there is zero evidence is just ignorance. Be it enough evidence for you or not, it's still evidence.
User avatar #122 to #11 - mtndewisgreat
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(03/01/2014) [-]
What I wonder though, is what evidence could there be to convince you? With science, everything is possible, right? How can you possibly prove a religion? God sent his son down to the earth, and people saw him do miracles and STILL didn't believe. Science could find a way to explain anything, if not right away, eventually. Just give that some thought, not trying to start anything.
User avatar #203 to #122 - Proximity
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(03/02/2014) [-]
My issue is apathy, really. I have a lot of information for and against Christianity, but I refuse to change sides without researching the things I've heard.

Religion isn't important to me, and nothing people say changes that. It's not something I care about at the moment.
And I'd rather not be lectured on that, I get enough of that from my mother.
User avatar #12 to #11 - kanadetenshi
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(02/28/2014) [-]
I'm talking about real evidence, not arguments that are flawed and rely on fallacies and assumptions.

In order for something to be evidential it needs to be testable, experimental and conclusive. The evidence for christianity is hardly conclusive.

The only actual "evidence" is based on geographical locations in the bible, but that's because those where the places where the authors wrote the bible. By that logic every single religious text has evidence.

So i stay by the fact that it has no evidence because what you are talking about isn't evidence.
User avatar #16 to #12 - Proximity
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(02/28/2014) [-]
It's as much evidence as many aspects of history. We have evidence of great events and people throughout history, despite not having the people themselves, or something testable.

I suppose our main difference is I'm approaching it from a historical standpoint, not a scientific one. I'm looking at the events of the Bible as if it needs historical evidence, not scientific evidence, and that's very different.
You can test that hydrogen is flammable by lighting it on fire. You can't test that Sigmund Freud was a real man that made a real impact on the science of psychology, as that's a non-repeatable past event. We may have books and writings to support his existence and influence, but we don't have him.


So our issue is looking at it from different angles
User avatar #18 to #16 - kanadetenshi
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(02/28/2014) [-]
It's not evidence because it says absolutely nothing about how true the bible is. It only proves that there where people that wrote a bible which anyone could figure out. There is literally zero evidence that the bible is of supernatural origin or that the supernatural things actually happened in the bible. If i made a book about last week and added unicorns in it, it wouldn't be evidence for unicorns even if the book was historically accurate.

The difference is that the historical standpoint is flawed and doesn't prove anything, the fact that you would even horrible such flawed historical evidence to actual historical evidence is downright embarrassing. And history is in fact testable because through evidence of weaponary, remains of bones and all sorts of dating methods. We also still have Sigmund Freud's body which we can analyze and test.
#21 to #18 - Proximity
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(02/28/2014) [-]
I think your argument is about the existence of God, whereas I'm talking about the history and events

Like I said, there's non-religious(secular) texts that match up with many events from the Bible.

Many wars, disasters, people, etc. are confirmed by sources outside the Bible. Like I said, I'm not counting the argument "The Bible says so"

There's historical proof that even Muhammed, the prophet of Islam, existed. This isn't proviing God, Allah, Satan, or whatever you'd call it, but it's proving that events in these books did happen.
Not all of them are proven, but it is none-the-less evidence to support those books - The Bible and Quran

At the very least, read up on your argument before calling it horrible and shameful. I am fully aware that I can't prove the existence of God, and I'm not trying to do that. I'm just pointing out that there is more than zero evidence.

To blatantly ignore these points is just like a Christian blatantly ignoring all of your points. I can effortlessly say "There is zero evidence that here is no God" and argue for ages why what I'm saying is true but it'd be a ****** argument that only survives by constantly ignoring the opposing person's points
#166 to #21 - aerosol
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(03/01/2014) [-]
I'll be honest, your picture is the only reason I started reading this thread.
I'll be honest, your picture is the only reason I started reading this thread.
User avatar #22 to #21 - kanadetenshi
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(02/28/2014) [-]
Ofcourse it's about the existence of god, that's what the entire point was, evidence for god. You're relying on semantics now, evidence for stuff that happened in the bible is not evidence for christianity because christianity isn't the belief in "this part in the bible happened" no it's belief in an omnipotent god and his son that he sacraficed, which like i mentioned has zero evidence.

Again that's not evidence for the bible, that's evidence that people wrote historical moments in the bible. Again that's like me writing a book about last week and then adding unicorns in it, it doesn't prove that my book has evidence. Muhammad existed yes, but that's not evidence for islam, that's evidence for a man worshipped by islam, but not evidence for islam.

By your logic there is evidence for scientology because L. Ron Hubbard existed.

I don't ignore these points, i merely show that these aren't evidence because you're relying on poor semantics and completely side stepping my points. I still have shown that there is zero evidence for the christian god and that remains a fact.

As for the zero evidence that there is no god, the burden of proof lies on the claimer, not the skeptic, there's also zero evidence for unicorns.

User avatar #24 to #22 - Proximity
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(02/28/2014) [-]
I'm not trying to present evidence for God.
Christianity is indeed a worship of God and Jesus, but that's one part of it. The Bible is the "word of God" according to Christianity and therefor evidence that the Bible is true is evidence for Christianity

You also seem to misunderstand what "evidence" means. Evidence does not mean "this is true". An enormous amount of evidence supports things that did not turn out to be correct. Here's an example

You have 3 numbers in sequence. 5, 10, 20. Hypothesize that the sequence is doubling. Evidence: 10 is double of 5, 20 is double of 10. You run more tests using sequences 10, 20, 40 and 3, 6, 12. Both turn out to be true. This is strong evidence to support your hypothesis that the sequence rule is doubling. But you're only testing to confirm your hypothesis. The sequence could just be "increasing numbers".

So my point is that evidence supporting something does not mean that the something is true. It just suggests that it could be.

Now, with that in mind, let's look at the way it tends to go. The rule is that each number a multiple of 2 and you are able to test 10, 24, 42 , 2,4,8 , and 30, 68, 120
These are all multiples of 2. 2 multiplied by X can equal any of these numbers. You have not tested every single sequence there is, but these tests so far support the multiple of 2 hypothesis.

So by saying that X, Y, Z in the Bible can be proven, it is evidence to support the Bible itself. This does not by any means confirm the Bible. It only supports it.
That is what I've been saying
User avatar #25 to #24 - kanadetenshi
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(02/28/2014) [-]
There's the problem, there's no evidence that it's the word of god. So unless you find evidence that it is the word of god then it's not evidence for christianity. Furthermore there are many things in the bible that have been proven false including the creation story, the tower of babel, noah's arc, ect.

Evidence is about confirming something, but it's not evidence until the hypothesis is established as a theory, which only happens when the evidence has conclusively verified the hypothesis through repeated experimentation, peer-review and cross confirming syntheses.

Evidence supporting something indeed doesn't mean something is true, however evidence that conclusively points out to something does. And not only does god have no conclusive evidence it doesn't even have supporting evidence.

It doesn't support the bible at all, it merely supports events that are written in the bible. Again referring to my book i wrote about last week with unicorns in them, it doesn't mean my book has evidence because it has accurate events from the past.
#27 to #25 - Proximity
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(02/28/2014) [-]
Well golly, I'll concede this argument to you. Thought I had a good point about not assuming there is no valid argument to be had, but my "research" is just what I've learned over many years via proxy. Religious scholar friends and the like.

While I can say rather safely that many previously-unproven events in the Bible have been proven, I can not say that other aspects of that book are not disproven.

You've done more research than I have and I would need much more time and effort to build a suitable counter to the points you have presented. I don't care about religion nearly enough to put that much work into defending any specific one.

I applaud your success in this argument and may your knowledge aid you in future debates.

It's just an absolute shame you never once in this argument even attempted to be polite. Instead you consistently showed me no sense of self-doubt, no possibility that I might have a point, and no willingness to even have the chance of being wrong. You did not want to have someone argue with you and made that very clear.

I will return to just talking about pornography with people, since the I know a huge amount more about that and people tend to be more open to different views.
#55 to #25 - outerfiend
Reply +4 123456789123345869
(03/01/2014) [-]
this ****** did not read the title
#159 to #25 - anon id: 1316f06f
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Alongside what the other anon said,

The Bible is the most accurately copied book ever, 10x as many copies than any other book in history, copied letter by letter, making it the most historically accurate book in history. (over 6000 living historical copies over history, next is Homer with 600, next is <100)

Also, there is evidence both for and against God, and the Ark (idk about the other two), it's just that no scientist takes it seriously.
#66 to #25 - anon id: 68cb80ae
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(03/01/2014) [-]
1. old testament predicts coming of Jesus hundreds of years before he was born. Down to the detail that his hands would be nailed when he died.
2. the bible predicted the rebirth of the nation of Israel. Guess what Israel is back. This is even more interesting as there had not been a Jewish state in almost 2000 years.

If these two things dont count as evidence i dont know what does. especially the second point. To predict such a specific event over a thousand years ahead of time is a big deal.

In addition to that in revelations it is said that when the two angels at the wall in Jerusalem die the entire world will know of their deaths in 3 days and the world will rejoice. This prediction was made in a time where it took 3 days to walk to the next ******* town. it essentially is predicting that in the future we would have a method of communication that would be able to allow the news of their deaths to travel across the world in 3 days. oh wait we have that dont we.
User avatar #19 to #16 - kanadetenshi
Reply -8 123456789123345869
(02/28/2014) [-]
Not to forget that the historical evidence of the bible relies on the bible itself (circular reasoning) and anonymous anecdotes. That's not even proper historical evidence let alone evidence for a god.
User avatar #90 to #12 - xgrandmoffx
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Oh, and check out Thomas Aquinas' five proofs of the existence of God. He talks about stuff like first cause whereby matter only moves as an effect of something causing it and the thing that started causing things is what many people call "God."
User avatar #193 to #90 - kanadetenshi
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Thomas Aquinas proves have been throghouly disproven and debunked, even most apologetics don't use them anymore or atleast use a revised version.
User avatar #88 to #12 - xgrandmoffx
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Back before I began seriously questioning God and religion, I always felt a huge relief and an almost physical lightness about myself after going to confession. Call it a placebo if you must, but a somewhat physical sensation is enough evidence for me to at least see theism as reasonable.
User avatar #80 to #12 - xsnowshark
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(03/01/2014) [-]
I'd just like to throw something I find very interesting into this proof/no proof this (actually two things):

1.) There is an everyday force that we, to this day, do not know where it comes from. That force is gravity. We have some ideas, but no one has a definitive reason why/how it is a real thing.

2.) I'm sure you have heard about how in Christianity God gave everyone "free will". If there was some way of knowing definitively that there was a God, there would no longer be free will.

User avatar #183 to #7 - whyamieventrying
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(03/01/2014) [-]
So basically... we're just fine if we shove our sins on that one shrining dude... that makes it even worse/more hypocrite on our behalf...like; I don't wannadeal with this **** => blame Jeebus. Makes sence... not
#99 to #7 - swagbot
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(03/01/2014) [-]
I think that's the dumb, 'newer', over-ritualized, simpleton (Catholic-era?) misinterpretation of Christianity.

Saying that people are so wicked that they need a "100% Perfect Holy Sacrifice" to repent on their behalf robs people of their personal Strength, Significance, and Responsibility.

Christianity is about acknowledging that Man has the Potential for Good and Evil in his soul, the 'Faith' is that every person has a personal, inherent connection to Good that they can (through Trial and Effort) re-establish.

It does this through prose, story, and example... but that's the underlying idea.

If Christianity was presented in that more-pure and more-realistic way (as opposed to all this silly, simple-minded Superstition and Ritual that its various later 'Versions' have) then i think far more So-Called "Atheists" would agree with and practice it.
#108 to #99 - haeckal
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(03/01/2014) [-]
What I wrote is a dumbed-down description of the traditional core beliefs of Christianity, held in common by the Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches, going back to at least 390 AD, and possibly all the way back to the time of Jesus. That Jesus was sacrificed on your behalf is the heart of Christianity (that's why you always hear people saying "Jesus died for your sins" or somesuch). You're right that this "takes away" from the strength and responsibility of the individual (although each individual is still responsible for repenting and believing). But that's the point. The message of Christianity is that by yourself you're ******, but the "good news" is that God has shown mercy to you by sending Jesus. That's what "Gospel" literally means - good news. This does not take away the significance of the individual, however - since it implies that God loved you, personally, enough to rescue you. That makes you pretty special.

TL;DR: The Christian message is not an allegory about self-improvement - it's about Jesus making a sacrifice so that humans can be saved from the consequences of our own evil behavior.
#130 to #108 - swagbot
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(03/01/2014) [-]
"The Christian message is not an allegory about self-improvement."

The Christian message is up to anyone's individual interpretation. There is not 'One Spokesman' for the entire religion. I don't agree that "Jesus making a sacrifice so that humans can be saved from the consequences of our own evil behavior" is the meaning of Christianity.

And regardless of whether or not it's "Accurate", i think that's an unhealthy message.
User avatar #107 to #7 - Dember
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(03/01/2014) [-]
"Yeah bro, this is my son. I'm going to let him be tortured and murdered bloody because I need that to happen in order for me to be able to forgive any of you for, oh, you know, the despicable crime of having the human urges I created you with. It's not like I can just accept that you're sorry without my son dying miserably in your place though."

Gee, God's kind of a prick.
User avatar #174 to #107 - frobskottle
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(03/01/2014) [-]
The "urges" you refer to are like a bad STD Lucifer gave to Eve. Then that bitch gave it to Adam. Then they multiplied and passed it on. (STD being original sin) God isn't so much of a dick, he just wants us to get checked out and cleaned up a bit, ya know?
User avatar #184 to #174 - Dember
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(03/01/2014) [-]
That's a nice way of putting it, when he supposedly condemns them to eternal suffering and agony if they don't live by his specifications. Why allow anyone to retain their free will at all if you get tortured for the rest of eternity if you use it how you want to? That's kind of twisted and malevolent, just in my personal opinion.
#187 to #7 - testaburger
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#33 to #7 - anon id: ee1ed101
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(02/28/2014) [-]
or
even better
be jewish or atheist or any other religion and not believe in heaven or hell
even ******* better deal
User avatar #49 to #33 - commontroll
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Jews believe the exact same thing, but without a savior. So you're literally **** out of luck and have to sacrifice once a year. There's also no personal side to it, whereas Christianity believes in a God who is personal and cares. I think that's really cool honestly.

And plenty of other religions believe in pretty much the same thing. I prefer a god who just says "Yeah, none of you guys make the cut, so I'm gonna make a way for you guys to get in," over "Yeah, it's all about how you act, and you acted in a way that is just not cool to me even though you'd never heard of me before." Or like Hinduism which is seriously just one of the most ****** up religions out there, and you're just stuck reliving life over and over.
#102 to #7 - anon id: 7d62c313
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(03/01/2014) [-]
what about babies and still births and those mentally handicapped that die early? that makes no sense that only Jesus is perfect innocent
User avatar #114 to #102 - haeckal
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(03/01/2014) [-]
A good question! The traditional Christian belief is that human beings' very nature has been corrupted by original sin, so those don't really count, sadly. However, since Jesus was the Son of God, or God incarnate, his divine nature made him capable of being fully innocent and perfectly righteous.
User avatar #123 to #7 - nigeltheoutlaw
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I admit I'm a sinner, but don't I also have to worship them for it to count?
User avatar #171 to #123 - haeckal
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(03/01/2014) [-]
1) Admit you are a sinner
2) Ask God for forgiveness
3) Thank God for his mercy and the blessings he has given you, and try to live a better life. Part of living a better life is being grateful to God and thanking him for the good things he has done for you, so in that sense yes, "worship" is a part of it. But it should all flow naturally from those first two steps.
User avatar #177 to #171 - aerosol
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Are you a Christian?
User avatar #179 to #177 - haeckal
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Guilty as charged. Former atheist, current very bad Christian.
#181 to #179 - aerosol
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(03/01/2014) [-]
Heh, me neither. I haven't been to church in ages. You seem to really know a lot about the faith though. I've always had an interest in the Bible, but I haven't read through it completely. In debates like this, it must be nice to have some scripture memorized. ****, I can't even remember The Apostle's Creed.
#189 to #179 - testaburger
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User avatar #197 to #171 - nigeltheoutlaw
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(03/01/2014) [-]
I don't need God's forgiveness, I've done nothing wrong. Giving me sin right out the gate is ******. I don't need to thank him either since he has done nothing to help me in any way, shape, or form, and he gave me nothing (aside from the automatic sin, that's real fair) in my life. I'll live as good a life I can and continue to volunteer and help people, but God (assuming the Abrahamic God is even the real one, and not one of the other hundreds of deities on the planet) can suck my left nut if he thinks I'll thank him for a damn thing.

Of course, I don't buy the hubris that Christianity is the one true religion on the planet when there are so many others that all claim to be true, and I don't believe any of them as a result, but this whole "shove your nose up God's ass so you can smell his holy ****" line is too ridiculous for me. Sorry if I offended you, but I'm not going to sugar coat my feelings here.
#148 to #7 - physicsdude
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(03/01/2014) [-]
So there is no moral code to live by if you are a christian? No matter what you do, as long as you believe you go to heaven?
User avatar #169 to #148 - haeckal
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(03/01/2014) [-]
There is a moral code to live by - but failing to always live up to it will not necessarily send you to Hell. A Christian is supposed to do his best, and confess when he does wrong, apologize to God and man and try to change his ways. What sends you to Hell is sinning and not even having the decency to be sorry about it. If you never ask God for forgiveness (and mean it!) then you won't be forgiven.
User avatar #101 to #7 - perform
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(03/01/2014) [-]
I read it as
The Christian believes about sin is yes.
User avatar #118 to #101 - stafeezy
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(03/01/2014) [-]
yes
#155 to #7 - rambomanthree
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(03/01/2014) [-]
I masturbate, swear a lot, always miss church, question religion a lot, am bisexual, would have sex before marriage if i could, have thought about murdering but never will...

however i was baptized and confirmed... i do believe in god, just in a non traditional way
Because every page on the bible contradicts itself, and just about every single pastor will tell you a slightly different story about what you ask... there is no sure fire way of knowing anything... so i just try not to be a dickwad to people

I think the whole universe was created by god, and that evolution still exists though
also the world being created in 7 days thing... what if it wasn't literally 7 days and billions of years, just billions of years to us is 7 days for god?


with these beliefs and ways of living, am i going to burn in hell? or is there a chance i will go to heaven?
#176 to #155 - aerosol
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(03/01/2014) [-]
I believe God is responsible for causing the genetic phenomenon that resulted in human evolution. To be frank, I can't remember ever meeting a self-proclaimed Catholic that didn't believe in evolution.
User avatar #165 to #155 - haeckal
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" with these beliefs and ways of living, am i going to burn in hell? or is there a chance i will go to heaven?"

The fact that you care enough to ask that question means a lot. I'll let someone more qualified than myself answer:

"When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”"

(Matthew 19:25-26)
#163 to #7 - aerosol
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(03/01/2014) [-]
You know, I don't think &quot;punished&quot; is a proper word to use in this situation. I know hell is supposed to be a real ****** place, but I don't think it was made to be that way on purpose. I went to a Catholic School for 7 years and each year I took a class on religion. When it came time to explain hell, our teacher read us something very interesting. It was a quote from Pope John Paul II. In it, he describes hell as being simply a place where people experience  the absence of God. &quot;Punished&quot;, makes it seem like God has some ill will against sinners, but I think God simply gives up.    
   
gif for anyone patient enough to read this
You know, I don't think "punished" is a proper word to use in this situation. I know hell is supposed to be a real ****** place, but I don't think it was made to be that way on purpose. I went to a Catholic School for 7 years and each year I took a class on religion. When it came time to explain hell, our teacher read us something very interesting. It was a quote from Pope John Paul II. In it, he describes hell as being simply a place where people experience the absence of God. "Punished", makes it seem like God has some ill will against sinners, but I think God simply gives up.

gif for anyone patient enough to read this
User avatar #167 to #163 - haeckal
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(03/01/2014) [-]
That eel is adorable.

Whether God actively punishes the damned in Hell or whether the damned merely suffer from the absence of God is a question I certainly can't answer. Maybe it's both, or something else we can't really understand. The point, I think, is that Hell is extremely unpleasant (not just like Heaven but with blackjack and hookers), and it's something we need rescuing from, regardless of the specifics.
#175 to #167 - aerosol
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I guess I might just like that frame of reference because it's not so scary. I always imagined it as being like HolyArachnid said(or at least referred to). I believe that it's the nature of the souls in Hell which make it such an unpleasant place. Regardless, I'm stayin' the **** away if at all possible.
I guess I might just like that frame of reference because it's not so scary. I always imagined it as being like HolyArachnid said(or at least referred to). I believe that it's the nature of the souls in Hell which make it such an unpleasant place. Regardless, I'm stayin' the **** away if at all possible.
User avatar #178 to #175 - haeckal
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That's exactly why I've preferred that interpretation as well. But I suspect in the end my preferences don't matter, so I always try not to rule out the "scarier" interpretations. As far as staying out, amen, good luck sir! May neither of us ever have to discover the answer firsthand.
User avatar #56 to #7 - morskoj
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OH!

I thought we could ALWAYS have repented for our sins.

Well, in that case, Jesus was a pretty cool bro.
User avatar #91 to #7 - benjaminbutton
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I don't really see a need to start an argument, but I'm fine right here on earth. In heaven I imagine there would be no wonderment, or that feeling of being finite and just thinking how the universe came to be. I love contemplating that stuff, and don't know if I want the answer.
User avatar #120 to #91 - obsidicus
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we don't honestly know a whole lot about what heaven will be like. Who says we get all the answers when we get there? I don't think we will. I hope that I would have the ability to explore the universe and go back in time and see all of the people who came before and my children who came after me, but I don't know what will happen. another lesser known Christian secret is that no one really knows where they go when they die, just that believes go to be with Jesus at some point (not sure when) and that unbelievers are forever separated from Christ in torment.
User avatar #121 to #91 - nighkey
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You also assume we would have human attachment. In the original translation, often omitted by Christianity but embraced by sub Christians (not trying to go hipster here, there is good and bad about every religion including Jehovah's Witness), we embrace many new sensations fulfilling and exciting, including a new form.

From the descriptions of Dr. Eben Alexander, an atheist Harvard graduate and brain surgeon, he describes that when people go into life/death operations, the part of our brain creating dreams kicks into overdrive. He himself went brain dead; no activity at all, and wasn't meant to survive- - but did. And speaks of things it is difficult to even imagine using his common English words. I'd research it if anyone is really interested.
#96 to #7 - thelastelephant
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No one had ever explained that to me. Christianity suddenly makes a lot more sense.
#142 to #96 - burningsmurfs
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#28 - HolyArachnid
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I have read a very interesting theory of Hell that plays much more to the frailties and flaws of human nature; C. S. Lewis and M. Scott Peck were two of its main proponents in our modern era, but I doubt it completely originated with them. Basically, Hell is not an inescapable prison of fire and torture at all, but rather an oppressively dreary place in which people are actively encouraged to strive for power over one another and to take pleasure in one another's pain. The &quot;damned&quot; are actually free to leave this Hell any time at all, but the premise is that a truly corrupt soul would choose to stay there, because its social fabric would play to the base and petty ideals they had lived by; those kinds of people would never be able to stomach Heaven, in which all people were equal in the eyes of God and there were no opportunities to build oneself up by tearing others down. In essence, those people would be damning themselves to Hell by their own refusal to grow and change. I may have simplified the concept quite a bit here, but it certainly gives you a lot more to chew on than &quot;bad people will have to suffer for eternity&quot;.
I have read a very interesting theory of Hell that plays much more to the frailties and flaws of human nature; C. S. Lewis and M. Scott Peck were two of its main proponents in our modern era, but I doubt it completely originated with them. Basically, Hell is not an inescapable prison of fire and torture at all, but rather an oppressively dreary place in which people are actively encouraged to strive for power over one another and to take pleasure in one another's pain. The "damned" are actually free to leave this Hell any time at all, but the premise is that a truly corrupt soul would choose to stay there, because its social fabric would play to the base and petty ideals they had lived by; those kinds of people would never be able to stomach Heaven, in which all people were equal in the eyes of God and there were no opportunities to build oneself up by tearing others down. In essence, those people would be damning themselves to Hell by their own refusal to grow and change. I may have simplified the concept quite a bit here, but it certainly gives you a lot more to chew on than "bad people will have to suffer for eternity".
#94 to #28 - anon id: 35502972
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So what you're saying is if these places do exist at all it's simply a choice and who we are naturally decides the fat of our supposed afterlife. Cool theory but I think peoples beliefs just reflect them as a person and nothing more, I simply can't believe anything happens when we die other than rotting in the ground or existing for eternity as ash. However our energy will always exist so maybe a consciousness is carried, I dunno I'm quite undecided, don't know enough to
#95 to #94 - anon id: 35502972
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back a singular belief.
User avatar #63 to #28 - pwnigator
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So basically it's like the Netherworld in Disgaea? ... I'm okay with that
User avatar #76 to #28 - edlias
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So you're telling me that hell is capitalism and that heaven is communism? Well, this changes everything.
User avatar #79 to #76 - xgrandmoffx
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It was probably just Lewis and Peck speaking to the part of the human mind that comprehends spirituality on a deeper level in order to argue their opinions about the world around them, but if this were an actual place in the afterlife, then it would be the reverse of Earth. The problem with communism is not that it is evil, but that it doesn't work due to the fact that the world is run by humans who have greed, regardless of whether the system is capitalism or communism. Capitalism just gives us an organized outlet for it. In Heaven, where God is directly supreme, communism would work.
User avatar #157 to #76 - cabbagemayhem
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It's not communism if the help you give is by choice.
#78 to #28 - endospore
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"Hell is other people."

Read "No Exit" by Jean Paul Sartre
User avatar #144 to #28 - toosexyforyou
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Wow that actually sounds appealing. You're telling me that I have a shot at becoming king of the underworld if I overcome every other soul and if I should happen to fail, I can call it quits and go to heaven. It's basically win/not-lose, sign me up.
User avatar #160 to #144 - cabbagemayhem
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First, you'd have to change your ways, obviously. It would be contradictory to select selflessness as plan B to Operation Selfish. And, I think even King of the Underworld is a silly goal to aspire for when you can be Citizen of Sky-City.
User avatar #36 to #28 - oxymoronking
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holy **** thats insightful. could you start a new religion?
User avatar #46 to #28 - thebearthatcares
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I have heard a theory that Hell isn't this place of fiery suffering but rather a place where it is continuous boredom and there is no purpose in life and that is why it is considered to be suffering because you have nothing to do and no one to love
#77 to #46 - xgrandmoffx
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Still sounds like a better deal than fire and brimstone. If I were stuck there, I would just force schizophrenia upon myself, internally socialize and masturbate forever.
#145 to #46 - anon id: 086b595a
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I heard a theory where hell is made of an infinite number of layers and with each layer it just gets worse and worse
#100 to #46 - anon id: 54adf2e4
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sooooo, you're saying we're in hell already?
#41 to #28 - Logicaltightrope
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Wait a sec...I know a place like that...
User avatar #82 - doctorprofessornv
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I recall a parable that might better explain Heaven and Hell:

One day a man said to God, “God, I would like to know what Heaven and Hell are like.”
God showed the man two doors. Inside the first one, in the middle of the room, was a large round table with a large pot of stew. It smelled delicious and made the man’s mouth water, but the people sitting around the table were thin and sickly. They appeared to be famished. They were holding spoons with very long handles and each found it possible to reach into the pot of stew and take a spoonful, but because the handle was longer than their arms, they could not get the spoons back into their mouths.
The man shuddered at the sight of their misery and suffering. God said, “You have seen Hell.”
Behind the second door, the room appeared exactly the same. There was the large round table with the large pot of wonderful stew that made the man’s mouth water. The people had the same long-handled spoons, but they were well nourished and plump, laughing and talking.
The man said, “I don’t understand.”
God smiled. It is simple, he said, Love only requires one skill. These people learned early on to share and feed one another. While the greedy only think of themselves… [Author unknown]

Interpret it as you will, I just thought I'd share.
User avatar #87 to #82 - demandsgayversion
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That's like a SAW scenario.
User avatar #89 to #87 - doctorprofessornv
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And as in a saw scenario, the people suffer largely due to their own stupidity and vices.
#126 to #82 - anon id: 72667c86
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No guys just listen. The point is which for some reason wasn't stated that the people in Heaven were overcoming the fact that they couldn't reach their mouths by feeding EACH OTHER from across the table. Heaven has teamwork. In Hell, everyone's self-centered.
User avatar #151 to #126 - reginleif
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Hell is a league of legends solo queue?
User avatar #98 to #82 - IAreCaptainObvious
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Why don't they just put their hands further down the spoon handle?
User avatar #109 to #98 - doctorprofessornv
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It wasn't stated here, but in the original parable the spoons are tied to their arms.
User avatar #115 to #109 - chimpaflimp
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All the people in the first room are ******* morons. They could break the handle, untie whatever attached the spoon to their arm, use their sodding hands, ANYTHING except that.
User avatar #146 to #115 - toosexyforyou
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Well sure, they can do whatever they want if you want to change the basis of the story. It's clear that this story calls for it being impossible for a single person to feed himself. I don't understand why you feel the need to squirm out of it.
User avatar #194 to #146 - chimpaflimp
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Except it isn't impossible for someone to feed themselves, due to there being a myriad of things they could do to get the food.
#104 to #98 - innocentbabies
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It's from the Bible. Why didn't God just change the rules? Instead of sacrificing himself, to himself, to change a rule that he created.
#143 to #104 - anon id: 93021123
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Fun fact: Catholicism believes Jesus and God are the same, but the majority of religions don't really believe that.
#185 to #143 - testaburger
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#111 to #104 - anon id: f163c4f8
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it's not from the bible...
User avatar #1 - friedgreenpomatoes
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Purgatory?
User avatar #3 to #1 - lordlucifer
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that's just where souls go when they await judgement
#4 to #3 - rdobet
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Uhh, no.
It's the area for cleansing where the people who were good and deserve to go into heaven go, but not good enough to get a front of the line pass.
Honestly, he's right.
User avatar #5 to #4 - thebballin
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It really depends on what religion your talking about.
#6 to #5 - rdobet
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This is kinda entirely about Christianity though, and all variants of Christianity I know either follow this, or basically never cared enough about to elaborate upon it.
User avatar #9 to #6 - kanadetenshi
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Only Catholics have this and it only counts for people who did accept god's grace.
#26 to #9 - anon id: 38923ecc
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Catholic here. This is right - getting into purgatory's pretty much the same as getting into heaven. It's where you twiddle your ghostly thumbs until all the venial sins since baptism are gone, or something like that. No one really likes to talk about purgatory anymore because of that 'indulgence' mess from the 1500s, but its still part of the system.
User avatar #17 to #9 - thebballin
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^^ My religion believes in the "where souls go to await judgement" belief
User avatar #74 to #1 - Crusader
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I ain't spending eternity with vampires and werewolves and ****
User avatar #29 to #1 - gidmp
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It's the place for people that is destined for heaven takes a shower to cleanse themselves from the germs (sin) before entering the swimming pool (heaven).
#170 to #29 - aerosol
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I hope so. I always imagined it as some kind of proving grounds. Somehow that idea scares me more than hell.
User avatar #40 to #29 - Logicaltightrope
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And it's Catholic-only, I believe.
User avatar #139 to #40 - gidmp
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oh yeah, i forgot to mention that.
#14 - andimac
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Upside down God is an angry Asian.
User avatar #32 to #14 - upyourarsinal
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"you dishoner your god/gods/goddesses."
#93 - flufflepuff
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i've seen too many of you making jokes about wincest and having sex with dogs for you to be in any sort of grey area.
#106 - pankikilord
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For the love of...I had a little hope there might not be a million ********** in the comments. Nope. Erry time, FJ.

Lemme just throw this out there, then step the **** back and stay out of this beyond this point.

-Don't believe in something because it sounds better than the alternative. Believing in an afterlife because it seems viable to you is okay. Believing in one because "It just suck otherwise" is not.

-Don't assume that an entire community is retarded because of the retards representing the community. Not all Christians are inept, biased morons who ignore scientific fact because the magic man said so. Not all atheists are assholes or horrible or intolerant of all religions. It's just plain dumb claiming that en entire group of people are pathetic simply because of a trait they share.

-Accept the fact that the things you know to be true may not be true at all. Years ago, mankind KNEW the Earth was flat. Before the Titanic went pepsi we KNEW it would never sink. The stuff you "know" could be ********, and if you refuse to be open minded and try to find truth from all angles you will always be inept.

-TAKE A JOKE. ******. Humor is meant to NOT be taken seriously, so taking it so serious is counter intuitive. If a joke offends you, just ******* ignore it.
#112 to #106 - nighkey
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And then a whole bunch of people turn to look at you, and instead of looking disgusted, they break out the hic accent, "That's the new JEsus!
#134 - justsomechickyo
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What God really said....
#127 - nigeltheoutlaw
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There is no amount of good deeds that you can do in a lifetime that warrants an eternity of reward, and there is no amount of sin you can commit to warrant an eternity of suffering, even for real pieces of **** like Stalin or Pol Pot (though they do deserve a long, long, looooong sentence, but still not eternity), so why the **** does everyone talk about them like they're completely reasonable consequences for a life's actions? Even more frustrating is that, according to traditional Christian beliefs, you have to worship God to even have your good deeds count - if you don't then it doesn't matter if you're the most wonderful person ever because you're still Hell bound. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who sees how utterly ******* retarded this is to any reasoning person.   
   
Just to be clear: I don't believe any of it, but the idea behind the reward and punishment system in Christianity is more than a little broken. God should probably stop helping people win the Super Bowl and win elections and get on dealing with its own ****.
There is no amount of good deeds that you can do in a lifetime that warrants an eternity of reward, and there is no amount of sin you can commit to warrant an eternity of suffering, even for real pieces of **** like Stalin or Pol Pot (though they do deserve a long, long, looooong sentence, but still not eternity), so why the **** does everyone talk about them like they're completely reasonable consequences for a life's actions? Even more frustrating is that, according to traditional Christian beliefs, you have to worship God to even have your good deeds count - if you don't then it doesn't matter if you're the most wonderful person ever because you're still Hell bound. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who sees how utterly ******* retarded this is to any reasoning person.

Just to be clear: I don't believe any of it, but the idea behind the reward and punishment system in Christianity is more than a little broken. God should probably stop helping people win the Super Bowl and win elections and get on dealing with its own ****.
User avatar #138 to #127 - netzenk
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I'm curious, do you mind explaining your reasoning for having no warranty for eternal rewards or punishments? No hate, I'm just a curious Christian seeking to learn.
User avatar #153 to #138 - freebrainsforall
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An eternal reward or punishment for a finite amount of actions is inherently completely irrational.
User avatar #195 to #138 - nigeltheoutlaw
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What freebrainsforall said: eternal reward or punishment for a finite action makes no sense at all.
User avatar #204 to #127 - hellomynameisbill
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Read Dante's Divine Comedy. It details the circles and levels of heaven, purgatory, and hell and tells of the reward/punishment systems.
User avatar #205 to #204 - nigeltheoutlaw
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Dante's Inferno isn't Bible canon. It's a good read, but it doesn't affect Christianity's beliefs.
User avatar #207 to #205 - hellomynameisbill
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Though it could.
User avatar #208 to #207 - nigeltheoutlaw
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God read it and thought, "Yeah, this is good ****! I'll text Lucifer and let him know that I want some changes made to the system" ?
User avatar #209 to #208 - hellomynameisbill
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The divine comedy is still adopted by many roman catholic christians as fact. Though non-canon, we all know how Mormonism turned out.
User avatar #210 to #209 - nigeltheoutlaw
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A thinly veiled attack at political opponents isn't really church doctrine, even if the majority thinks so. Mormonism is a joke that barely qualifies as Christianity.
User avatar #211 to #210 - hellomynameisbill
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Despite not directly hailing from the judeo-christian scripts, Mormonism is still a practiced christian religion that supposedly follows the word of god and Christ. Mormonism and The Divine Comedy can still be regarded as lesser branches of christianity considering the fact that both happen to be fictional books written by christian men that are believed to a cult standard by christians
User avatar #212 to #211 - nigeltheoutlaw
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I know it is Christianity since it's technically Protestantism. On the Divine Comedy I'll just say, "if you say so" since I am too drunk to effectively argue otherwise.
#214 to #127 - braintennant
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This is not a critisicm at all, but who exactly told you that you go to hell for being a non-beleiver even though youre a good person
User avatar #215 to #214 - nigeltheoutlaw
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A **** ton of people, but most recently my friend at uni.
#218 to #215 - braintennant
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With all due respect to these contacts of yours. But whoever says that that is how it is, is a ******* idiot. I know that you dont believe in god and all that stuff, but christianity is a way of life, and when someone shovs their convictions down your throat they are a total MINORITY of christians.
User avatar #219 to #218 - nigeltheoutlaw
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So do you think that I can go to heaven for being a good person even though I'm an Atheist.
#220 to #219 - braintennant
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of course.. after all god is an atheist like you . Thats what i think and i dont know(obviously) what happens after life. But people that tells you that you wont go to heaven because you dont bow to a stupid boring cross. And a book that those church idiots thinks that god wrote, even though youre a good person is an insufferable cocksucker who has nothing to do with god(again with all due respect to your friend)
User avatar #221 to #220 - nigeltheoutlaw
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I can respect that. Thanks dude.
#222 to #221 - braintennant
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np. Hate to sound like an all knowing douche, but this is the truth of the matter, and atheism is a very inteligent way of life. Just please remember that most christians would be happy to be youre friend