Confederate Flag
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#8
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xerros (08/12/2015) [-] 
I felt the need to google it to see what came up.
First thing I get is an urban dictionary and that line... I'm not displeased.
First thing I get is an urban dictionary and that line... I'm not displeased.
#66 to #40
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shrektheogre (08/13/2015) [-] That gif is from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back/ However you too are a clerks fanboy. I AM THE CLIT COMMANDER!
#69 to #66
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upunkpunk (08/13/2015) [-] Shrek, you're a rude ************ , you know that? But you're cute as hell. I could go down on you, suck you, line up three other ogres, make like a circus seal.
#18
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GodofTV (08/12/2015) [-] You retards do know that when the Southern states seceded they wrote declarations of why they were doing it, right? Every single one of them mentions slavery. Every. Single. One.
Georgia:
"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."
Mississippi:
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun."
South Carolina:
"But in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue."
Texas:
"She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."
Virginia:
"... not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States."
They all have these quotes in the VERY FIRST PARAGRAPHS of there declarations of secession. Anyone who says that the Civil War wasn't MOSTLY about cry babies wanting to keep their slaves is a ******* idiot and needs to learn their history.
Georgia:
"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."
Mississippi:
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun."
South Carolina:
"But in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue."
Texas:
"She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time."
Virginia:
"... not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States."
They all have these quotes in the VERY FIRST PARAGRAPHS of there declarations of secession. Anyone who says that the Civil War wasn't MOSTLY about cry babies wanting to keep their slaves is a ******* idiot and needs to learn their history.
#124 to #18
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elsenortamatoe ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] It also gives precedence to what the states will do if the federal government enacts laws that they dont like
#299 to #18
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sortoathepenguin (08/13/2015) [-] While I agree that slavery was indeed one of the biggest issues of the war, I don't think that "cry babies" is really a good way to describe Southerners at the time. If you and your family were doing the same job for generations upon generations, and suddenly you were forced to either pack up and quit or lose a huge chunk of profits, wouldn't you be a little upset?
Mind you, I am not in any way condoning slavery, and I think the Civil War was awful, but the South was not completely in the wrong in their thinking of defending the traditions they held onto for so many years before.
Mind you, I am not in any way condoning slavery, and I think the Civil War was awful, but the South was not completely in the wrong in their thinking of defending the traditions they held onto for so many years before.
#410 to #299
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elcreepo (08/13/2015) [-] If you and your family were doing the same job for generations upon generations, and suddenly you realized that you didn't even want to come to this country and now someone else is essentially claiming credit for your hard work while paying you nothing, wouldn't you be a little upset?
#444 to #410
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sortoathepenguin (08/13/2015) [-] Sure I would, and I would have every right to complain and attempt to do something about it. However, I was merely referring to the "cry baby" comment, which is uncalled for and just plain wrong. The same applies whether you're a plantation owner or a slave.
#396 to #18
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lean (08/13/2015) [-] Virginia didn't mention slavery, they mentioned the abuse of federal power perpetuated against the southern slaveholding states. Key word is southern, because the northern slave states (of which there were 2) had slavery for years after the emacipation proclamation. Delaware and maryland were not subject to the high taxes and tariffs imposed on the other confederate states, and never seceded. The last 4 states to secede did so after lincoln had thier governers imprisoned and suspended habeas corpus, overruling the federeral judges who unanimously said he did not have the power to do so.
lmgtfy.com/?q=define+tyranny
Also bear in mind that Lincoln expressly stated that he had no intention of abolishing slavery in his inaugural address, so the idea that the war was about slavery is completely false. How is that for an idiot's history?
lmgtfy.com/?q=define+tyranny
Also bear in mind that Lincoln expressly stated that he had no intention of abolishing slavery in his inaugural address, so the idea that the war was about slavery is completely false. How is that for an idiot's history?
#61 to #53
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gorillabutts (08/13/2015) [-] You can't just say that without anything to back you up. I mean, you didn't even list one possible other factor.
#88 to #61
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containlettersonly (08/13/2015) [-] What about the massive ******** of taxes the north was taking? Slavery was the driving force behind the war but slavery was on its way out because economically it is a very ****** plan. It's hard for someone to find a job when they have to compete against free labor.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-W5fGCAzOk
It's cited and sourced
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-W5fGCAzOk
It's cited and sourced
#162 to #53
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letting 
(08/13/2015) [-] Was slavery a factor? Yes.
Was it the only factor? No.
Was it the biggest factor? ******************* YES.
Fixed that for you.
Was it the only factor? No.
Was it the biggest factor? ******************* YES.
Fixed that for you.
#293 to #162
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xtremehivoltage (08/13/2015) [-] >>#61
States rights was a big thing, maybe not as big as slavery though. But then again, the first American slave owner was black, George Washington owned slaves, and there is still a low-key white slave trade run throughout Africa and Eurasia. Not justifying those things, I'm saying we should stop focusing on our past and start focusing on the world's future by abolishing slavery worldwide.
States rights was a big thing, maybe not as big as slavery though. But then again, the first American slave owner was black, George Washington owned slaves, and there is still a low-key white slave trade run throughout Africa and Eurasia. Not justifying those things, I'm saying we should stop focusing on our past and start focusing on the world's future by abolishing slavery worldwide.
#356 to #293
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] cheap overseas labor is today's slavery.
we're complicit in it
we're complicit in it
#336 to #53
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cabbagemayhem (08/13/2015) [-] MFW slavery is all people know about the civil war and confederate flag. Good old government schools at work.
#377 to #336
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bakagaijin (08/13/2015) [-]
Meh.... you know what they say... history is written by the victor. ... and the victor defines who is right and wrong
#398 to #377
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cabbagemayhem (08/13/2015) [-] The victor has the biggest voice to tell everyone who is right and wrong. They don't get to define what is truly right and wrong.
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traveltech (08/13/2015) [-] Misread that, the actual answer is they say it was about states rights. (more specifically the right to own slaves)
#57 to #56
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traveltech (08/13/2015) [-] But if they accept that, then they have to admit that they're just racists, so they can't
#58 to #57
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fellatio (08/13/2015) [-]
yep, and for some reason FJ has a problem with the idea that symbols are images whose meanings are associated with who ever is using it and what they are doing. Sure it may have been a short lived battle flag but Neo Nazis. the KKK and a whole manner of racist rednecks all using that same symbol makes it racist.
That and that the south tried seceding because they feared they would lose slaves. Turns out that the south hasn't gotten that much smarter since the Civil War
That and that the south tried seceding because they feared they would lose slaves. Turns out that the south hasn't gotten that much smarter since the Civil War
#59 to #58
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traveltech (08/13/2015) [-] I also find it funny how the same people who consider themselves patriots also display the most un-american flag possible, the flag of traitors who tried to secede.
#125 to #59
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anon (08/13/2015) [-]
I'm fairly certain that the impulse to rebel is one of the most American things there is. Just look at how we became a country. So to say that rebelling, even within America, is un-American is to ignore part of the very fabric of Americanism. Just giving my opinion on the matter, not trying to disregard your opinion.
#308 to #59
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makethingsworse (08/13/2015) [-] Rebuttal: the very essence of American culture is to fight tyranny; be it foreign or domestic. The Confederate (Battle) Flag represents a time when America itself was faced with domestic tyranny. The South believed the North wished harm upon them, much like the Colonies believed the King wished harm upon them.
Also if we are talking symbols of racism there is a flag that we are all very much familiar with that represents genocide and slavery.
The Good Ol' Stars and Stripes!
LOL the Confederate (Battle Flag) is a symbol of racism!
What's a Native American?
Also if we are talking symbols of racism there is a flag that we are all very much familiar with that represents genocide and slavery.
The Good Ol' Stars and Stripes!
LOL the Confederate (Battle Flag) is a symbol of racism!
What's a Native American?
#112 to #58
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youregaylol (08/13/2015) [-] If the confederate flag is racist because racist slave owners founded the confederacy then the us flag is racist for the same reason. I don't actually remember the confederate flag being flown while wiping out an entire race, like the american flag.
Oh the KKK used the confederate flag, so that makes it racist? Guess that means the american flag is racist too.
The confederate flag is racist because part of the reason why they seceded was for racist reasons? Sort of like how the colonists rebelled against britain partly because britain refused to allow them to kill and steal more native american land?
Oh the confederate flag is racist because they were involved in racial wars? How did the us gain most of its territory again? There used to be people there right? I remember us locking up some japanese as well, many many years after the confederacy was long dead and buried.
See, the problem with your northern liberal progressives is all of your arguments are hypocritical if you don't also see the american flag as a symbol of racism as well, and the majority of you claim to not have a problem with it.
Be consistent with your stupidity at least.
Oh the KKK used the confederate flag, so that makes it racist? Guess that means the american flag is racist too.
The confederate flag is racist because part of the reason why they seceded was for racist reasons? Sort of like how the colonists rebelled against britain partly because britain refused to allow them to kill and steal more native american land?
Oh the confederate flag is racist because they were involved in racial wars? How did the us gain most of its territory again? There used to be people there right? I remember us locking up some japanese as well, many many years after the confederacy was long dead and buried.
See, the problem with your northern liberal progressives is all of your arguments are hypocritical if you don't also see the american flag as a symbol of racism as well, and the majority of you claim to not have a problem with it.
Be consistent with your stupidity at least.
#358 to #112
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] liberals want to remove the pledge of allegiance to the flag from schools, and other such displays of patriotism.
believe me, they know.
believe me, they know.
#119 to #116
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youregaylol (08/13/2015) [-] Nah, lets be honest, you were never going to type up a serious response. You read my argument and realized that the parallels between the two flags and indeed the two nations are impossible to deny, so you used my username as a convenient excuse for why you can't logically argue your ****** point.
You could've simply not replied at all but of course being wrong upsets you, like most idiots, so you felt the need to tell me why you cant defend your dumb ideas while leaving a pathetic insult. Your whining is hysterical and expected, carry on.
You could've simply not replied at all but of course being wrong upsets you, like most idiots, so you felt the need to tell me why you cant defend your dumb ideas while leaving a pathetic insult. Your whining is hysterical and expected, carry on.
#295 to #119
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xtremehivoltage (08/13/2015) [-] If racism won us the second world war, I would say go back and be racist again tbh
#394 to #112
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spidahridah (08/13/2015) [-] I usually disagree with you, but you made a respectable and fair point. Thumbs up.
#150 to #57
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reginleif ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] Germany does this to a lesser extent when they try to separate the blame of the "clean" Werhmacht and the "dirty" SS which is literally the worse excuse ever as there's plenty of dirt to go around no matter which faction you belonged to.
If you were a German chances are you did some bad **** in France or the Ukraine, literally the only decent person was Rommel and gang and as a General I feel that he knew full well what kind of country he was defending.
If you were a German chances are you did some bad **** in France or the Ukraine, literally the only decent person was Rommel and gang and as a General I feel that he knew full well what kind of country he was defending.
#81 to #26
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lisreal (08/13/2015) [-] I've never believed that seceding and trying to keep slavery was purely because of racism. Of course racism was still there, but economically, losing slaves would really hurt southern industries, like tobacco or cotton. This is why Britain supported the Confederacy ; if they lost and slavery was abolished, cotton prices would increase (also the demand for weapons didn't hurt). www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-unknown-contributions-of-brits-in-the-american-civil-war-2478471/?no-ist=&page=2 Does that make Britain racist?
While the South definitely believed whites were superior, you can't blame their decision entirely on hatred of a different race. If no money was to be made from African Americans, then I'm sure they would've been closer to indifferent about it.
Now though, since slavery is gone and there's no economic "advantage" to African Americans , I completely agree. Many people who fly this flag are just racist.
While the South definitely believed whites were superior, you can't blame their decision entirely on hatred of a different race. If no money was to be made from African Americans, then I'm sure they would've been closer to indifferent about it.
Now though, since slavery is gone and there's no economic "advantage" to African Americans , I completely agree. Many people who fly this flag are just racist.
#93 to #81
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thehistorylover (08/13/2015) [-]
I heard that Britain at the time was pretty ******* racist, but I could be wrong here.
#135 to #93
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iloveburzum ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] Pretty wrong. Britain was going around preventing slave trade, freeing slaves, and generally being for equal rights long before america.
America has a tendency to be just above third world countries when it comes to equal rights.
Gay marriage and similar, slavery, healthcare... etc.
America has a tendency to be just above third world countries when it comes to equal rights.
Gay marriage and similar, slavery, healthcare... etc.
#226 to #135
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kingpongthedon ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-]
Not exactly, most Brits still believed in the racial superiority of whites, that it was their duty to "civilize" lesser humans. They did see slavery as an abomination, much the same way the average person sees animal abuse. It is an atrocious act for sure, but that doesn't mean the victims are equal in stature to the perpetrators. And since it's their duty to watch over these lesser humans, they damn sure shouldn't be abusing those lesser themselves.
Brits were very racist themselves, they too believed that other races were incapable of looking after themselves however their course of action was one of pity instead of exploitation. At least theoretically, their imperial track record tells a very different story.
Brits were very racist themselves, they too believed that other races were incapable of looking after themselves however their course of action was one of pity instead of exploitation. At least theoretically, their imperial track record tells a very different story.
#350 to #135
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thehistorylover (08/13/2015) [-]
However ... I'm still pretty sure that lots of English people at the time were pretty racist ...
www.victorianweb.org/history/race/rcov.html
www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cannibal-club-racism-and-rabble-rousing-victorian-england-180952088/?no-ist
www.victorianweb.org/history/race/rcov.html
www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cannibal-club-racism-and-rabble-rousing-victorian-england-180952088/?no-ist
#349 to #135
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thehistorylover (08/13/2015) [-]
Anti-slavery does not equal not racist, but I see what you are saying.
#461 to #349
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iloveburzum ONLINE (08/14/2015) [-] Thanks for those links, in particular the cannibal club one was fascinating.
All the same, sounds like britain were incredibly mellow and accepting compared to most of america, particularly the south.
...also they aren't entirely wrong about black people.
All the same, sounds like britain were incredibly mellow and accepting compared to most of america, particularly the south.
...also they aren't entirely wrong about black people.
#227 to #113
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kingpongthedon ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-]
They cited slavery as a major reason of secession before there was even a war for the British to pick a side to support. It was an issue, in fact it was the issue, from the very beginning.
#401 to #279
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] it's a primary source. as such, no, it wasn't written by the victors.
#288 to #18
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gotohemp (08/13/2015) [-] who wrote them?
If it was high up officials and oligarchists I would understand considering most of them probably had either a very direct investment in it or straight up owned plantations
most people did not, and probably had less of a reason to involve slavery in the matter for starting a war
If it was high up officials and oligarchists I would understand considering most of them probably had either a very direct investment in it or straight up owned plantations
most people did not, and probably had less of a reason to involve slavery in the matter for starting a war
#357 to #288
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] most people who didn't own plantations didn't have a reason to start a war, period.
#23 to #18
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justtocomment ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-]
Even more fun when you consider that the flag they want to keep was a battle flag that was in service for less than a year. Within a year of the end of the war the KKK formed and has been using that flag ever since.
It has spent literally over 100 times as much time under the KKK than it ever did to the confederacy.
It has spent literally over 100 times as much time under the KKK than it ever did to the confederacy.
#297 to #23
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anon (08/13/2015) [-]
The KKK isnt a single entity. There have been various groups who have called themselves the KKK, all with different philosophies. A bunch of rowdy confederate veterans resisting "reconstruction", a radical white hate movement that hung blacks and jews, and a less radical white pride movement(which is its modern incarnation). Besides, the KKK has waved the U.S. flag as well. In fact, their deadliest and most extreme incarnation were the ones who waved it. Not the Confederate veterans. Fun fact: the first Jewish American senator was a confederate. Yet a lot of people see the flag as anti-semitic...huh....
#302 to #23
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anon (08/13/2015) [-]
Proud Southerners have been using the flag ever since as well. Before you say "Hur dur aren't they the same thing?" There are a **** ton of racists in the north, literally every northerner I hung out with talked **** about " ******* " and yes that's what they called them. The only difference between our racist and yours, is ours aren't pussies and are open about they're bigotry.
#289 to #18
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ronniesan (08/13/2015) [-] Losing slaves to them was losing valuable property. Directly affecting their livelihood.
It's as if I took your computer away because it's mind was too intelligent to be your servant so now you cant do anything you need to do online like write papers research pay bills.
It's as if I took your computer away because it's mind was too intelligent to be your servant so now you cant do anything you need to do online like write papers research pay bills.
#303 to #18
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makethingsworse (08/13/2015) [-] No one is denying slavery was definitely one of the major driving forces of the secessiin. But I want to take a moment and impart some empathy for the Southern Economy on to your Yankee mind. Say you are a successful business man that is providing a HUGE portion of your money to your state, but your still doing quite alright. All of a sudden some ****** whom you don't know tells you that you aren't allowed to have cheap labor anymore. Hell, you're not allowed to have any of the workforce you have. And you know, as well as anyone else, that this ****** doesn't even care about the people working for you and simply wants more people they can tax. This same ****** also just told you he is not paying the same amount for your goods, and is also making it more expensive for you to actually ******* sell them. So, essentially, this person- whom you don't know- is bending you over the cotton gin you bought and reaming you in the ass without giving you the common decency of a reach around...in fact he is shooting your dog while he's doing it.
I'm not saying slavery was right on a moral or economic level (it was on it's way out). I am, however, saying that I would be pissed if someone claiming they are from a government I have no representation in told me to go **** myself, my family, and my living. Kind of reminds you of this one time in American history where some faggy lords from across a pond told some farmers how to live their lives. Or how 1% of this country essentially dictates 99% of everything. Imagine how upset you would be if you were that 99%.
I'm not saying slavery was right on a moral or economic level (it was on it's way out). I am, however, saying that I would be pissed if someone claiming they are from a government I have no representation in told me to go **** myself, my family, and my living. Kind of reminds you of this one time in American history where some faggy lords from across a pond told some farmers how to live their lives. Or how 1% of this country essentially dictates 99% of everything. Imagine how upset you would be if you were that 99%.
#407 to #303
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elcreepo (08/13/2015) [-] **elcreepo used "*roll picture*"**
**elcreepo rolled image** Okay, you want to play this game? I'll play this game.
No one is denying eradicating all non-jews was definitely one of the major driving forces of WW2. But I want to take a moment and impart some empathy for the German Economy on to your Jew mind. Say you are a successful aryan business man that is providing a HUGE portion of your money to your state to pay off the war crimes debt you have, but your still doing quite alright. All of a sudden some Jew whom you don't know tells you that all the money you saved in the banks is gone. Hell, you're not allowed to have any of the money you have. And you know, as well as anyone else, that this Jew doesn't even care about you and simply wants more money. This same Jew also just told you he is not trading with you, and is also making it more expensive to buy a loaf of bread. So, essentially, this person- whom you don't know- is bending you over the table you bought and reaming you in the ass without giving you the common decency of a reach around...in fact he is shooting your dog while he's doing it.
I'm not saying WW2 was right on a moral or economic level (eugenics was on it's way out). I am, however, saying that I would be pissed if someone claiming they are from a country I have no representation in told me to go **** myself, my family, and my living. Kind of reminds you of this one time in World Religions where some Jewish dicks nailed a guy to a cross. Or how 1% of this country essentially dictates 99% of everything. Imagine how upset you would be if you were that 99%.
Face it, none of what you said constitutes a right to cling to a flag that represents a dark chapter in our country.
It was your own fault for relying on others to make your living.
That living wasn't YOURS, it was the blacks who suffered night and day so YOU could have a pretty little white house.
Bitch.
**elcreepo rolled image** Okay, you want to play this game? I'll play this game.
No one is denying eradicating all non-jews was definitely one of the major driving forces of WW2. But I want to take a moment and impart some empathy for the German Economy on to your Jew mind. Say you are a successful aryan business man that is providing a HUGE portion of your money to your state to pay off the war crimes debt you have, but your still doing quite alright. All of a sudden some Jew whom you don't know tells you that all the money you saved in the banks is gone. Hell, you're not allowed to have any of the money you have. And you know, as well as anyone else, that this Jew doesn't even care about you and simply wants more money. This same Jew also just told you he is not trading with you, and is also making it more expensive to buy a loaf of bread. So, essentially, this person- whom you don't know- is bending you over the table you bought and reaming you in the ass without giving you the common decency of a reach around...in fact he is shooting your dog while he's doing it.
I'm not saying WW2 was right on a moral or economic level (eugenics was on it's way out). I am, however, saying that I would be pissed if someone claiming they are from a country I have no representation in told me to go **** myself, my family, and my living. Kind of reminds you of this one time in World Religions where some Jewish dicks nailed a guy to a cross. Or how 1% of this country essentially dictates 99% of everything. Imagine how upset you would be if you were that 99%.
Face it, none of what you said constitutes a right to cling to a flag that represents a dark chapter in our country.
It was your own fault for relying on others to make your living.
That living wasn't YOURS, it was the blacks who suffered night and day so YOU could have a pretty little white house.
Bitch.
#416 to #407
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makethingsworse (08/13/2015) [-] That was pretty funny. But wholly different, and you know it. I know it's fun to blame the Jews for everything on the Internet to all your Internet friends but what happened to the Jews and what happened to African-Americans is not comparable. I'm not saying we have it harder, because let's face it, Jews got it made when we aren't being round up and slaughtered. We live longer (on average), generally smarter, and wealthier...and best part is we all mostly just look like any other white people.
Also, as a Jew, I find more people that aren't Jewish talk about the Holocaust. Fun fact.
(Disclaimer: I am far from wealthy. But that's something I plan on fixing)
Also, as a Jew, I find more people that aren't Jewish talk about the Holocaust. Fun fact.
(Disclaimer: I am far from wealthy. But that's something I plan on fixing)
#419 to #416
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elcreepo (08/13/2015) [-] Yes it is.
The Jews were exploited to the absolute fullest.
So were the blacks.
Germany built its economy FAR better on the backs of Jews.
They just also happened to have more than enough Jews to kill. For decades there was no more influx of black slaves so you had to "farm" them.
Which is far more inhumane, farming a person so that you can continue to claim their work as YOURS, or killing them outright because you can't?
I'm pretty sure that if a full-blooded German used the nazi flag "to define him as a person and to define his country" there'd be a LOT of Jews getting offended.
Meaning it's perfectly reasonable for a black person to be offended that so many southerners fly the confederate flag, still today. It sends the message that they think "America was BETTER when blacks were rounded up and treated as farm animals with no dignity or rights whatsoever"
The Jews were exploited to the absolute fullest.
So were the blacks.
Germany built its economy FAR better on the backs of Jews.
They just also happened to have more than enough Jews to kill. For decades there was no more influx of black slaves so you had to "farm" them.
Which is far more inhumane, farming a person so that you can continue to claim their work as YOURS, or killing them outright because you can't?
I'm pretty sure that if a full-blooded German used the nazi flag "to define him as a person and to define his country" there'd be a LOT of Jews getting offended.
Meaning it's perfectly reasonable for a black person to be offended that so many southerners fly the confederate flag, still today. It sends the message that they think "America was BETTER when blacks were rounded up and treated as farm animals with no dignity or rights whatsoever"
#75 to #18
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pinkfloyd (08/13/2015) [-] Honestly the Civil War was fought mostly about money. The South produced cotton that Britain and France needed for their factories so more foreign money was being pushed to the South. The North didn't like this so they put sanctions and tariffs on Southern goods. That's why slavery is referred in these declarations, as it was it's main way of getting money.
#228 to #75
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kingpongthedon ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-]
"Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."
-Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens
-Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens
#134 to #18
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anon (08/13/2015) [-]
Here's another quote " if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it." Abraham Lincoln
America was a very divided country back then, much like today. Except back in those days people were loyal to their states first, then the Union. The same types of bickering were going on back then as it is today. Today we have two main schools of thought, liberal vs conservative. They fight on everything, gay marriage, gun rights, taxes, abortion, immigration, etc etc. If another civil war was to break out, there would be a tipping issue. Say abortion, now the reason for that war will forever be because abortion. Depending who won, the history books would say either the war was fought" to end the murder of babies" or for "a woman's right to choose". In the south the war was " to end northern aggression" but since the north won it is " to end slavery". I don't blame you for thinking like you do. You were indoctrinated from a young age. **** ... North Koreans believe their leader was a god. Saying the civil war was fought because slavery is like saying WW2 was fought because the holocaust.
BTW, Virginia seceded AFTER the federal govt told it to raise several brigades for an invasion of the states that had seceded. Seeing the tyranny, it declined, seceded, and proceeded to hand the U.S. army its ass for years until it was finally overrun by Lincolns slave army(the war was unpopular in the north so they forced the poor and immigrants who just got off the boat to fight). You ******* yankee Bitch.
America was a very divided country back then, much like today. Except back in those days people were loyal to their states first, then the Union. The same types of bickering were going on back then as it is today. Today we have two main schools of thought, liberal vs conservative. They fight on everything, gay marriage, gun rights, taxes, abortion, immigration, etc etc. If another civil war was to break out, there would be a tipping issue. Say abortion, now the reason for that war will forever be because abortion. Depending who won, the history books would say either the war was fought" to end the murder of babies" or for "a woman's right to choose". In the south the war was " to end northern aggression" but since the north won it is " to end slavery". I don't blame you for thinking like you do. You were indoctrinated from a young age. **** ... North Koreans believe their leader was a god. Saying the civil war was fought because slavery is like saying WW2 was fought because the holocaust.
BTW, Virginia seceded AFTER the federal govt told it to raise several brigades for an invasion of the states that had seceded. Seeing the tyranny, it declined, seceded, and proceeded to hand the U.S. army its ass for years until it was finally overrun by Lincolns slave army(the war was unpopular in the north so they forced the poor and immigrants who just got off the boat to fight). You ******* yankee Bitch.
#46
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haeckal (08/13/2015) [-] The American Civil War, like most wars, was about more than just one thing.
1. Protecting plantation slavery versus abolishing it. Southern slaveholders wanted a guarantee that outsiders would never force them to emancipate their slaves, and thought that remaining in the Union put too much power in the hands of anti-slavery states. The overwhelming majority of Southerners, however, never owned slaves. Slaveholders saw their slaves as legitimate property protected by the Constitution and viewed slavery as a benign, paternalistic, Christian institution. They also feared a bloody Haitian-style slave revolt. Abolitionists saw slavery as un-Christian, a violation of the rights of Man, and a degrading vice.
Both pro-slavery and anti-slavery Americans tended to hold negative views of blacks. Pro-slavery forces accused abolitionists of inciting blacks to violence and encouraging race-mixing. Anti-slavery forces accused slaveholders of keeping blacks as concubines. Most people opposed to slavery (Lincoln included) wanted blacks to be freed and then repatriated to Africa. Only a small number of anti-slavery whites wanted whites and blacks to live together as equals.
2. The principle of centralized government versus states rights. When the British colonies won their independence and ratified the Constitution, the states were viewed as independent countries coming together in a voluntary alliance and delegating limited powers to a federal government. Secessionists believed that the states had the right to leave at any time and for any reason, while Unionists said this was treason and impossible. Lincoln himself said that preserving the Union was more important to him then ending slavery. This is why modern advocates of federalism and limited government have always had some sympathy with the Confederate cause even if they totally oppose slavery - the defeat of the South put an end to the United States as a voluntary union and led to an ever-increasing expansion of centralized government power at the expense of the states.
3. Regional political influence. Until the Civil War American presidents were mostly Southerners, especially from Virginia.
4. Regional economic influence. The South was agricultural while the North was industrializing. Generally Southerners stood to gain from free trade while Northern industries favored protectionism and the tariff.
5. American power in the world. Many observers recognized that if the USA became two separate, rival countries, this would limit American power and increase the influence of Europe.
6. Defending the homeland from invasion. This was the most important reason why hundreds of thousands of Southerners fought and died for the Confederacy, regardless of their opinions on slavery or federalism. They saw it as their duty to fight back against an invading and occupying army and were willing to die in great numbers for that purpose. And once the war began, Union and Confederate soldiers fought for the men fighting alongside them, as do all soldiers in war.
The Civil War was a brothers' war, the most terrible war the American people have ever experienced. I believe both sides have a right to love, honor, and celebrate their dead ancestors without interference or condemnation. Trying to defame the memory of the losing side or ban or destroy their monuments is the opposite of tolerance and reconciliation.
1. Protecting plantation slavery versus abolishing it. Southern slaveholders wanted a guarantee that outsiders would never force them to emancipate their slaves, and thought that remaining in the Union put too much power in the hands of anti-slavery states. The overwhelming majority of Southerners, however, never owned slaves. Slaveholders saw their slaves as legitimate property protected by the Constitution and viewed slavery as a benign, paternalistic, Christian institution. They also feared a bloody Haitian-style slave revolt. Abolitionists saw slavery as un-Christian, a violation of the rights of Man, and a degrading vice.
Both pro-slavery and anti-slavery Americans tended to hold negative views of blacks. Pro-slavery forces accused abolitionists of inciting blacks to violence and encouraging race-mixing. Anti-slavery forces accused slaveholders of keeping blacks as concubines. Most people opposed to slavery (Lincoln included) wanted blacks to be freed and then repatriated to Africa. Only a small number of anti-slavery whites wanted whites and blacks to live together as equals.
2. The principle of centralized government versus states rights. When the British colonies won their independence and ratified the Constitution, the states were viewed as independent countries coming together in a voluntary alliance and delegating limited powers to a federal government. Secessionists believed that the states had the right to leave at any time and for any reason, while Unionists said this was treason and impossible. Lincoln himself said that preserving the Union was more important to him then ending slavery. This is why modern advocates of federalism and limited government have always had some sympathy with the Confederate cause even if they totally oppose slavery - the defeat of the South put an end to the United States as a voluntary union and led to an ever-increasing expansion of centralized government power at the expense of the states.
3. Regional political influence. Until the Civil War American presidents were mostly Southerners, especially from Virginia.
4. Regional economic influence. The South was agricultural while the North was industrializing. Generally Southerners stood to gain from free trade while Northern industries favored protectionism and the tariff.
5. American power in the world. Many observers recognized that if the USA became two separate, rival countries, this would limit American power and increase the influence of Europe.
6. Defending the homeland from invasion. This was the most important reason why hundreds of thousands of Southerners fought and died for the Confederacy, regardless of their opinions on slavery or federalism. They saw it as their duty to fight back against an invading and occupying army and were willing to die in great numbers for that purpose. And once the war began, Union and Confederate soldiers fought for the men fighting alongside them, as do all soldiers in war.
The Civil War was a brothers' war, the most terrible war the American people have ever experienced. I believe both sides have a right to love, honor, and celebrate their dead ancestors without interference or condemnation. Trying to defame the memory of the losing side or ban or destroy their monuments is the opposite of tolerance and reconciliation.
#141 to #46
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hemordie (08/13/2015) [-]
1. Agreed
2. Yes the state's rights to own slaves
3. A very minor reason.
4. Yes and South's Regional economic influence was very dependent on slavery
5. This is a reason why the North decided it was a war worth fighting. Had nothing to do with South.
6. Except the Purpose the South was defending was their right to own slave's and the economic influence that slavery brought them.
As for your last bit, I'd agree if the flag that didn't start all this controversy (the one in South Carolina) wasn't raised above the state house until during the Civil Right's movement. You can't make a symbol for racism more evident than when your government ignores it for about a century and only raises it again to protest the ******* Civil Right's movement. www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/22/eugene-robinson/confederate-flag-wasnt-flown-south-carolina-state-/
For the rest of you who don't believe the South's reasons for forming the Confederacy and starting the Civil war weren't all either directly or indirectly linked to slavery. Here's a nice article from a professor explaining it quite well.
www.thetattooedprof.com/archives/407
2. Yes the state's rights to own slaves
3. A very minor reason.
4. Yes and South's Regional economic influence was very dependent on slavery
5. This is a reason why the North decided it was a war worth fighting. Had nothing to do with South.
6. Except the Purpose the South was defending was their right to own slave's and the economic influence that slavery brought them.
As for your last bit, I'd agree if the flag that didn't start all this controversy (the one in South Carolina) wasn't raised above the state house until during the Civil Right's movement. You can't make a symbol for racism more evident than when your government ignores it for about a century and only raises it again to protest the ******* Civil Right's movement. www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/jun/22/eugene-robinson/confederate-flag-wasnt-flown-south-carolina-state-/
For the rest of you who don't believe the South's reasons for forming the Confederacy and starting the Civil war weren't all either directly or indirectly linked to slavery. Here's a nice article from a professor explaining it quite well.
www.thetattooedprof.com/archives/407
#140 to #46
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anon (08/13/2015) [-]
While this is mostly true, most people are not aware that the United States actually had two constitutions. The first was the articles of confederation. This initial constitution set up a form of government which wasn't really a government at all. The federal government basically had no way to enforce laws, collect taxes or even raise a proper military. The states were as you said, a loose alliance. This all changed when the US constitution as we know it was ratified. The constitution basically put the power in the hands of the central government. While each individual state could/can basically govern themselves, the constitution made clear that the supreme law of the land was the federal government.
This is of course where things get hazy. The constitution basically says that all states can do what ever they wan't as long as it doesn't undermine the decisions made by the federal government. This would imply that even if the federal government does something an individual state or a few states don't like, they are obligated to honor the will of the federal government. However, the constitution doesn't say that a state cannot leave the union. The legality of Secession is debated even to this day. Supreme court decisions after the Civil War declared secession unconstitutional so basically, no states can legally succeed from the union. But then again, if a state decides it wan'ts to leave the union, then is it still bound by the laws of the union?
This is of course where things get hazy. The constitution basically says that all states can do what ever they wan't as long as it doesn't undermine the decisions made by the federal government. This would imply that even if the federal government does something an individual state or a few states don't like, they are obligated to honor the will of the federal government. However, the constitution doesn't say that a state cannot leave the union. The legality of Secession is debated even to this day. Supreme court decisions after the Civil War declared secession unconstitutional so basically, no states can legally succeed from the union. But then again, if a state decides it wan'ts to leave the union, then is it still bound by the laws of the union?
#236 to #140
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anon (08/13/2015) [-]
The supreme law of the land are the constitutions, not the federal government! and the 10th amendment states clearly The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
It gave more power to the extremely weak central government, not all the power. States do not have to follow the federal government except where the federal government was granted authority directly in the constitution.
It gave more power to the extremely weak central government, not all the power. States do not have to follow the federal government except where the federal government was granted authority directly in the constitution.
#459 to #236
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anon (08/14/2015) [-]
You are correct. The federal government draws its power from the constitution. However, article 6 of the constitution states that all laws made by the Federal government are also to be considered the supreme law of the land. So any law passed by the federal government that is ruled to be constitutional by the supreme court is the supreme law of the land.
#345 to #46
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anon (08/13/2015) [-]
i have nothing against the confederate flag but people should know it has ties to sensitive topics. people nowadays get offended at the smallest things. like opening a door for a woman can now be seen as misogynistic. so even though the flag itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, you're always going to find a group of idiots that will be offended by it. therefore, know that it is your RIGHT to wave this flag around, BUT also consider that you are inviting trouble.
#224 to #46
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wetharmonica (08/13/2015) [-]
In relation to the 6th point; Interestingly, I've read a short story about the American civil war, in which the main character was a Canadian. Within the story, it was suggested that if the Union had split, that would indeed have left America weaker compared to other powers, but it also would have left Canada as the strongest power in North America.
That said, I hardly know enough American politics to verify this claim, I'm only Canadian after all. It kinda is a romantic thought, but, eh, I'd say the world's good enough as it is right now. Nobody hates Canada after all.
That said, I hardly know enough American politics to verify this claim, I'm only Canadian after all. It kinda is a romantic thought, but, eh, I'd say the world's good enough as it is right now. Nobody hates Canada after all.
#102 to #46
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durkadurka (08/13/2015) [-] A well written, factual examination of the topic in question?
We don't deserve this.
We don't deserve this.
#130 to #96
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donbionicle (08/13/2015) [-] There always is, but the anonymous vote is massive emotional swing that can't even decide what end of argument it supports between posts.
#5
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anon (08/12/2015) [-]
i prefer the original text, but go on my little porch monkeys it's cool i'm taking it back
#173 to #5
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xxdremisterxx (08/13/2015) [-] **xxdremisterxx used "*roll 1, Magic 8-Ball*"**
**xxdremisterxx rolls Don't count on it**
Is porch monkey's a racist term?
**xxdremisterxx rolls Don't count on it**
Is porch monkey's a racist term?
#155
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mankey (08/13/2015) [-] So, was there also a big ********* about this back in the 80's when the General Lee first appeared in the Dukes of Hazzard?
#189 to #155
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kuchikirukia (08/13/2015) [-] Nope. But then again, in the show it represented pretty much the opposite of what it does in real life.
To make it mirror real life, Boss Hogg would be the Republican commissioner voted in by people waving that flag. He's their guy. Gets **** done. Hates the "undesireables." REALLY hates it when those nosey librul feds come snooping around with their ideas of what is "legal."
To make it mirror real life, Boss Hogg would be the Republican commissioner voted in by people waving that flag. He's their guy. Gets **** done. Hates the "undesireables." REALLY hates it when those nosey librul feds come snooping around with their ideas of what is "legal."
#342 to #298
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kuchikirukia (08/13/2015) [-] Well, Southerners also kept that **** quiet. Back in the day they'd at least plant a gun when they killed an unarmed black man so no one would question their story. Now they want it out in the open: "We're gonna vote Tea Party and that means we're in charge and that it's legal for us to shoot whoever we like!"
When the bottom 10% starts to believe they're justified in killing people because "muh feelings," the rest tend to worry. Violent radicals are not something you want to let get going. Ask the 2000 just executed in Iraq how well that went for them.
When the bottom 10% starts to believe they're justified in killing people because "muh feelings," the rest tend to worry. Violent radicals are not something you want to let get going. Ask the 2000 just executed in Iraq how well that went for them.
#320 to #156
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heartlessrobot (08/13/2015) [-] Correction: American Media is a joke
Newspapers, news stations, reporters, etc, are all **** and should be ignored. If it's not the weather, you don't need it.
Newspapers, news stations, reporters, etc, are all **** and should be ignored. If it's not the weather, you don't need it.
#328 to #323
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heartlessrobot (08/13/2015) [-] Because the media feeds on views, gotten by ******** headlines and meaningless filler that serves only to stir the masses, gaining more views. They don't care what they display, they just rake in the cash.
#332 to #331
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heartlessrobot (08/13/2015) [-] Just remember, everyone's working for the solid gold toilet.
#213
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falloutsurvivor (08/13/2015) [-] no matter what do do, libtards and anti-white racists will always misinterpret and demonize everything you do
i knew a guy who loved 40K so much he got a black templars cross as a tattoo on his arm....and libtards went ******* saying its an iron cross and hes a nazi
i knew a guy who loved 40K so much he got a black templars cross as a tattoo on his arm....and libtards went ******* saying its an iron cross and hes a nazi
#413 to #402
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falloutsurvivor (08/13/2015) [-]
so all black crosses all through history are just german iron crosses right?
#364 to #213
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] your friend is a bit of an idiot for not knowing the alternate meaning of that cross and failing to predict people's reactions.
#233 to #213
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CAPSEDDIE (08/13/2015) [-] But it does looks exactly like a Iron cross, which is a common tattoo among Neo Nazis. When people who don't know him or WH40K see that tattoo he shouldn't be surprised if that is what they think of. I'm not saying he is a racist, but I am saying he should have thought more carefully about his choice of tattoo
#235 to #233
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megayoming (08/13/2015) [-] Could be that amarica is a free country and he just wanted the freedom to decorate his body.
Thats like saying you cant have earrings or long hair as a dude, or short hair and wear jeans as a woman.
I understand your argument but its not a really well placed one for stupid people because of the fact that they will keep going and going until its not acceptable to have what you want without asking a city council if having a leather jacket with the logo of you favorite sport. sorry about the run on sentence.
Thats like saying you cant have earrings or long hair as a dude, or short hair and wear jeans as a woman.
I understand your argument but its not a really well placed one for stupid people because of the fact that they will keep going and going until its not acceptable to have what you want without asking a city council if having a leather jacket with the logo of you favorite sport. sorry about the run on sentence.
#238 to #235
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CAPSEDDIE (08/13/2015) [-] First I'd like to thank you for being so civil.
Now I'm going to say this: I never even came close to saying that he shouldn't be free to get that particular tattoo. He can get any tattoo in the world that he wants and it wouldn't bother me. What I am saying is that if he gets a tattoo that (without specific context) resembles a nazi symbol, he shouldn't be surprised when people (who don't have all the proper context) assume it is the nazi symbol in question.
Now I'm going to say this: I never even came close to saying that he shouldn't be free to get that particular tattoo. He can get any tattoo in the world that he wants and it wouldn't bother me. What I am saying is that if he gets a tattoo that (without specific context) resembles a nazi symbol, he shouldn't be surprised when people (who don't have all the proper context) assume it is the nazi symbol in question.
#241 to #238
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megayoming (08/13/2015) [-] It just hurts that people exercise freedom of speech before thinking of a way to be calm.
I mean its not that hard to ask some one "hay that's an interesting Tattoo wheres it from?"
I don't know how he could of avoided it without changing the tattoos entirety. Skulls or holy seals don't seem to take the edge off and putting a chain sword or space marines helmet is just iffy. and putting the wording 40k or war-hammer would not stop people from looking at the center piece.
How would you deal with it?
I mean its not that hard to ask some one "hay that's an interesting Tattoo wheres it from?"
I don't know how he could of avoided it without changing the tattoos entirety. Skulls or holy seals don't seem to take the edge off and putting a chain sword or space marines helmet is just iffy. and putting the wording 40k or war-hammer would not stop people from looking at the center piece.
How would you deal with it?
#247 to #244
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megayoming (08/13/2015) [-] I just don't think people would be willing to take the time to take out a phone and look up the WH40K
I want to believe in people and all their good but they make it so frustratingly hard. No homo
I want to believe in people and all their good but they make it so frustratingly hard. No homo
#254 to #248
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megayoming (08/13/2015) [-] In warhammer their are different legions the Black templers are like the edgyest legion beside the blood angles and it would be devastating to walk into a tau rally and them thinking your one of them.
Imagin if a vegan rally was happening next to a bbq competition and the vegans think your one of them because you walked to close.
Imagin if a vegan rally was happening next to a bbq competition and the vegans think your one of them because you walked to close.
#201
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anon (08/13/2015) [-] yes goy
banish the flag
do it
dont forget to banish the american flag as well because it oppressed people in the middle east
banish the flag
do it
dont forget to banish the american flag as well because it oppressed people in the middle east
#324
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heartlessrobot (08/13/2015) [-] Bitch I wouldn't give a **** if they dangled the flag of the third reich from their kubelwagen, rolling down the street in full nazi gear. It doesn't matter to me until they start handing out mandatory train tickets to their special summer camp. Let people be people, let them wave their flags and don their garb, it's freedom of expression in the land of the free.
#395 to #324
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deepterror ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-]
this is pretty much my opinion right here. Let them express themselves as they see fit. Its when you start forcing your beliefs onto people thats the problem
#176
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blueboysixnine (08/13/2015) [-] Generally the people who point out something being racist are the ones that are racist
#52
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dorfdorfdorf (08/13/2015) [-] abraham lincoln wrote that if he could keep the union together and free all the slaves, hed do it. and if he could keep the union together and free some of the slaves, he'd do it. and if he could keep the union together and free none of the slaves, he'd do it. the civil war was not about slavery, it was about secession and states rights.
#86
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anon (08/13/2015) [-] If you think that thousands of confederate (non-slave owning) soldiers fought and died for the right for rich white people to own slaves you may be just literally retarded. Slavery was not the only factor to the Civil War. Pick up literally any 9th grade history text book.
#365 to #86
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] yes, i suppose coercion and brainwashing of the soldiers by the rich white people was also a factor.
#381 to #380
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] no, i said it was also a factor.
i very much doubt that the generic soldier who fought the civil war had any idea what 'state rights' even were.
most soldiers are not well-educated on the political context of a war because it would be counterproductive.
i very much doubt that the generic soldier who fought the civil war had any idea what 'state rights' even were.
most soldiers are not well-educated on the political context of a war because it would be counterproductive.
#384 to #382
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] if you're going with this, you will admit that stating there were more sides to the civil war than slavery is totally irrelevant to the motivations of the soldiers.
#386 to #385
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discobleach ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] i didn't realize you weren't the person who posted the original comment, so my bad for that.
#264 to #86
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tkfourtwoone ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-] It wasn't the only factor, but it was the MAIN factor. Since, you know, most of the Southern economy was based on slavery
#338 to #86
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fukkentyranitar (08/13/2015) [-] Genocide wasn't the main part of being a Nazi, but its still seriously ****** up. You can't cherrypick what you want from something like this.
#230
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kingpongthedon ONLINE (08/13/2015) [-]
Proud Southerner here, born and raised within walking distance of where the first shots were fired on Ft Sumter. There is nothing to be proud of in the Confederate flag. It represents the absolute worst period of American, and especially Southern, history. The South started the bloodiest war in American history primarily over the right to subjugate an entire race of people (for those who believe otherwise, please reread the Cornerstone Speech or any declaration of secession), and proceeded to get it's **** kicked in by a culturally and technologically superior opponent. Then a terrorist organization adopted one of many battle flags as their banner of hate for the next century. The reason that particular flag became popular was a direct result of its association with the Klan's racist views. How anybody sees anything to be proud of in it is beyond me.
That said, I don't believe that the majority of people who fly the flag see it as a racist symbol. They fly it because Nana flew it and in that respect it is an issue of "heritage, not hate" let's ignore the obvious racial implications of one's heritage . But that doesn't change the fact that Nana flew it because she's a racist cunt.
That said, I don't believe that the majority of people who fly the flag see it as a racist symbol. They fly it because Nana flew it and in that respect it is an issue of "heritage, not hate" let's ignore the obvious racial implications of one's heritage . But that doesn't change the fact that Nana flew it because she's a racist cunt.
